@milpai the vibe here is pretty weird at times, I am here to learn but I am in my disillusioned phase right now. When I see that people have a list of components that cost more than I spent on cars, combined in my entire adult life and the same people rave about junk music (to my taste) I feel confused.
The way I see it: if you love music, you won’t be obsessed with gear, because music is perfectly and fully enjoyable with decent $200 desktop speakers, playing from youtube. You will be obsessed with gear for a lot of other reasons. I find myself being obsessed with the quality of the sound (more or less in a bubble) but my joy of listening isn’t all that different. With a metaphor, imagine that you love playing soccer but your main focus is not playing but finding the best shoes. Great shoes will be significantly better than flip-flops but most people play in $60 sneakers, happily...
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Also, if there are people who pay $50 per month to get reviews of audio equipment that is heard by someone else, then it's a shame that they are ready to spend $50k on speakers/amps/sources and cannot spend $500 on a plane ticket to listen to such components "in-person". IF they are so busy, then how are they going to find time to enjoy this hobby? Just wondering.
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I am not here to support or diss Andrew. But here is my story:
Last month I invited 3 colleagues home, who love audio. One has a bluegrass band (he plays the banjo), the other records and does DJ while the last one is a very young guy (compared to me). These guys were mesmerized by my system because they had never heard a high fidelity system. In fact the band and the youngest guy claimed that they were hearing things almost to the rear. I did not question that. The 1 hour session went on to about 2.5 hours. At the end of it, they told me that while the system was fantastic, they simply could not afford it. Fair enough and I told them it was built over a period of 17 years. As we came out of the listening room into the family area of the basement, they saw the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR which is connected to a Sony 5.1 channel receiver, which we use to watch movies or the kids play games on TV.
Now this system impressed the band guy so much that he went home and started searching for these. Unfortunately they are not made anymore and the rare ones are fetching $500. He asked me for recommendation, based on a budget. There was no way that anyone of us could go reviewing a speaker. But I recommended him the Andrew Jones designed ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2. These were on sale for Thanksgiving and he bought the Walnut ones from Music Direct. They arrived last Monday at his place and he used his vintage 1980s Marantz receiver (Japanese made) with some cheap speaker wire that he already had. Even with this combination he was BLOWN AWAY with what he heard. This is his most expensive hi-fi purchase. The worst part is - he is currently using the "headphone out" from the projector as input to the Marantz. So today I carried my Auris bluMe bluetooth receiver, that he can connect using RCAs. Will wait to hear back from him.
Point is - Andrew Jones designs are pretty good. This forum is filled with folks having mega $$$ speakers (including me). We are trying to judge cheaper designs and compare them to the $$$ ones. To the folks on this forum a $1700 speaker might be a hype. But to the non-audiophiles even a $399 speaker is a hype. Why? Because their previous system is a all-in-one Walmart/Target system. We can do more justice to this hobby by directing the younger generation to start with cheaper loudspeakers. Eventually they will move into the high end category.
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"This jay character lost all credibility with me when he posted a y-t vid saying pass labs amps were mid-fi.".................. He lost street credibility with me when he became a rep and started selling his wares on his videos..add the fact every videos now starts off with "become a member of his site," I think the top guys are paying 50 a month...
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Many here probably know I have Emerald Physics 3.4s; Open Baffle, 12" concentric with 1" polyester tweeter, outboard XOs. I was shocked when I received them as the XO/speaker jumper wire was garbage, AND, not long enough to get them off the bases, which vibrate like crazy. I immediately upgraded the jumper wire, and also would have upgraded the wires in between the speaker binding posts and the drivers, but the small channel they fit into on the back side of the baffle is not DIY friendly, although I could bypass them externally, the binding posts likely present a problem. I have seen many of the EP OB speakers for sale, alas, their supplied photos always show the XOs on the bases, and the garbage jumper wire. I send them all emails about what I did, but never got a thank you, so Im guessing they never bothered to do the simplest upgrades. BTW, the 3.4s and their similar models are terrific buys on the used market
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Jay is a human being and thus of course has flaws, but IMHO at least he does not seem disingenuous. His systems, while not to everyone's tastes, certainly contain state of the art components. He has more direct experience with uber high end gear in his own system than anyone else I know of, so when he shares an opinion of Boulder gear, for example, I have no reason to doubt what he says. With that being said, I thought he made an error in judgement denigrating the SP 10s in that YouTube video without having had them in his system, and told him so in that video's comments section, and judging by his responses to other critical comments, he's getting ready to admit the mistake.
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@prof @roxy54
this jay character lost all credibility with me when he posted a y-t vid saying pass labs amps were mid-fi
he simply hasn’t a clue what hi-fi is if he believes that
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You haven't seen his bad side @prof .
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Jay seems like a nice guy and earnest. And I do like the gear pron aspect of his channel.
On the other hand, I find him over-serious, always delivering stuff like it’s almost like he was up all night contemplating how he’s going to break the important audio information to the audience. I personally wouldn’t take audio advice from the guy as I think he’s quite far down the rabbit hole. But on the other hand I have little doubt he’s had some great gear and his system probably sounds amazing.
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I asked him a question on his thread that he didn’t like, and he sent me two obscene personal messages. That is when he asked that his thread be shut down.
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Sorry but I find him just plain annoying
+1
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I do too but with that being said I find the majority of audiophiles very intolerant and annoying, myself included.
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I find Jay annoying and entertaining also
Sorry but I find him just plain annoying
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 sorry, but these are the real deal....Tannoy invented the dual concentric driver in 1947....they are Lovely speakers....
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This isn't the first, not will it be the last time that a product, independent of itself, fell prey to the collective id of the masses.
It's not even been properly reviewed and tested and already there are camps deriding it and others praising it while the saner amongst us sit fast and patiently await its arrival.
Such is the sad story of our times. We are of a Paleolithic mindset, set in a medieval culture and victim to god like technology that allows everyone to chime in at once. (like handing a loaded gun to a chimp)
Fools think Elmo to be a genius when he said Vox Populi, Vox Dei, as if the voice of the people can speak as god if enough say so. But the original goes....
Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit.
Which translates to...And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness.
Such is the resultant hype and put downs of a product that no one has listened to yet.
All the best,
Nonoise
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I find the hype around these speakers very entertaining.
Indeed these may be great speakers for your listening environment or they maybe total duds?
I find Jay annoying and entertaining also,
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You can have the best drivers in the world......but if the jacks, wires and xover parts are not the best possible then you will never hear the transparency of what the drivers can do (of course, MDF even 2 inches thick on the front is not really a seriously dead material.....but is fine for this price range). Kef uses ordinary Chinese xover parts, jacks and wire in the LS50 Meta. In the Blade series they use WBT jacks, better wire, hardwired xover (no circuit traces) and serious "audiophile" xover parts. They know what serious parts do.
So, what are the jacks, wire and xover parts in the MOFI speaker? For the money, I am sure they are fine.....but what if they made a $1500 a pair more version with all out jacks, wire and xover parts.....now that would be "special". If you removed the xover from the box and completely rebuilt it with super parts and hard wired it to the voice coil wires of the woofer and to the tweeter you would be mind blown. This xover would be mounted on a damped platform behind the speaker. Who will be the first to do this? Nah....you guys just buy and sell stuff. You don't hot rod. It's fine, the speaker is great for the money, I am sure....as are a lot of other speakers in this price range. But someone has to say the truth.......you will not get state of the art sound from a stock $3600 box speaker...never.......However, you can make a speaker for less than $2500 that will be much better in every way.....this is also true. I am sure if I had this speaker here I would really enjoy it. And after a few hours I would mod the heck out of it and then cry and jump up and down with joy.
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why is this so special?
as @roxy54 said...
it may well not be special... but it is new, from a well known, well liked, respected designer, thus worthy of evaluation and spreading the word around, so to speak
but we are all wise to note the distinction between 'new' and 'special'.... time needs to pass for something to be deemed ’special’
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@glennewdick
It's only special if its sound proves to be considered superior to the Arden or other similar designs to listeners over a period of time. For now, I think that the reason for the excitement is that the driver was designed form the ground up by a well-known and respected speaker designer
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All i could think of when watching this video is, Tannoy's been doing this for half a century. let alone others. why is this so special?
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At Capital Audiofest, Mr. Jones mentioned how he interacts with the MoFi crew and said that they like to exchange friendly barbs. i thought of suggesting that he should tell them that he got a lot of offers to trade One-Step collections for the new speaker but never brought that up.
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I can understand Jay's resentment over MoFi's vinyl controversy but to suggest Andrew Jones is working with them to salvage their credibility is quite a stretch and a bit slanderous.
Unless AJ is lying, he was contracted to design the speaker well before the MoFI debacle. And, his spin on how the speakers are being sold can be said about most any audio product out there. It's a conspiracy!
I'll just wait and be patient until I hear it for myself and not rely on what comes across as the mumblings of a real sourpuss, who devoted barely a couple of minutes on the sound of the speaker compared to his take on the company.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Jay's Audio Lab posted this video about the MoFI.
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Looking at that chart it looks as if the Sourcepoint 10 is worth it's weight in gold.
👍😄👍
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@lanx0003
Looking at that chart it looks as if the MS10 is deliberately aimed squarely at the Eaton.
It cannot possibly be coincidental because Andrew Jones has been around far too long to not be aware of the Tannoys. He even mentions them in interviews.
Both the Eaton and the Fyne now have an additional rival.
Hopefully someone will post a comparative review between all 3 before long.
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I am not sure if it is coincidental that SP10 shares close similarity with Tannoy Eaton in terms of specs. The faceted baffle, driver design and the resultant distinctive but pleasant sound traits are definitely good deviations. I think SP10 is a great debut product since he joined MoFi and sweet balance among the three design considerations he often mentions, i.e., bass, size and efficiency.
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@doyle3433
I have heard the Razz several times and each time it is a sound I could absolutely live with. Most recent was at AXPONA last April. They were aimed with lots of toe in aiming at a spot a few feet in front of the listener. Huge sound stage floor to ceiling, ultra refined with no harshness or glare, and big sounding bass. These are a clear cut above the Klipsch heritage because they have virtually no cabinet resonance coloration. These are the ones I plan to own someday.
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That's a very decent price for a set of matching speaker stands. I have to see how they're made before I decide. Thanks for posting that.
All the best,
Nonoise
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I heard the Razz at the Florida audio show....I bought the Heresy IV's..with Audio-gd vacuum pre and Peachtree GaN 400 class D Ganfet amp... Synergy personified....they sound much more musical to me than the more expensive Volti's....and saved lots of $$$....I called the MO-FI distributor and he said the stands for the SP 10 will be ready in January only $299 with the speakers. Sounds good ....I'm on hold till the stands come in.
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I’ve heard both too at shows and I like both. The Razz is more like horn-based system—it sounds lively and grabs your attention—but it has its own, to me, minor problems with the bass not sounding integrated with the rest of the range. Still it is a competitor to the likes of Cornwalls. The SP 10 sounds more like a good conventional speaker.
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I’ve heard both speakers. In both instances I was at shows so not ideal listening environments. I heard the Razz speakers at the NYC audio show this past September and the Source Point 10 speakers 10 days ago. Based strictly on those experiences I’d choose the Volti speakers. To my ears they treat the mids and highs more gently than do the SP 10. I think the Razz provides more of a warmish natural sound than the SP10. Bass is outstanding on both. Of course, different rooms, electronics and recordings. Perhaps if I’d heard the SP 10s with the same 300b amp I’d feel differently.
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I was all set to buy Volti Razz speakers in 2023. They really seem to be what I'm after. Sensitivity, dynamics, musical presentation and fun! Now these cam along at about half the price. Darn it all !! I plan on attending the Florida HiFi show to listen to the Volti's. (hopefully also to speak with Greg R. in person. He also seems to be a heck of a guy by our e-mails and all other accounts).
Anyone want to post an opinion ?
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@twoleftears
that's pretty cool. They got all the tools to make speaker stands. Now they just need to hire a designer :)
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@nonoise
thanks for posting that ’mini-take’ - sometimes just a very few well written, to-the-point paragraphs are much more informative than a multi-page review or a lengthy video review on youtube, so much fluff can and should be boiled down to the very essence more often
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what isn't a first world problem on this forum?
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@everest_audio I continue to be amazed how no decent looking speaker stands exist - to my taste. We have incredible speakers - both form and function-wise and hideous looking speaker stands. 4 black columns are an eyesore.
The Linton stands are also an amazingly bad design.
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Just came across this mini take on the Sourcepoint 10 and it's one of the most honest ones yet. Not close to perfect like a $25K speaker should be but...
All the best,
Nonoise
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I agree that the Linton stands would also be a great choice. Nicer looking too, but more expensive.
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A look at the Sourcepoint 10 manual states the tweeter should be 33" off the floor.
- That's about 2" lower than how I now sit and I'm only 5' 6"
- With my JBL 4319 monitors, my ear is at the lower third of the midrange driver with the tweeter another 5 1/2" higher and I get a healthy dose of the high end that way.
- AJ's design should have decent vertical spread for the tweeter so it should sound good at +/- 5" (at ear level) when listened to at a distance of 8' of more.
- Throwing in some Iso Pucks brings that down to +/- 4"
- Throwing a 2" butcher block brings that down to +/- 2"
- See where I'm going with this?
- That would make my Wharfedale Linton speaker stands more than acceptable at their 17" height and may have some base reinforcement from the lower positioning
Isn't it great how one can rationalize things in this hobby? 😄
All the best,
Nonoise
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I totally agree with the Monoprice stand recommendation. I have pairs in 24", 28" and 32".
I was a dealer for Target Audio, Arcici, Sound Anchors and several others.
IMHO, these, with a little bit of inexpensive tweaks and upgrades, are just as good as any of those...and MUCH cheaper.
I sure recommend them...for what it's worth.
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Why not just get these stands from Monoprice for $80 and fill them with sand, lead shot, etc. and use a little Bluetack to keep them anchored and further minimize vibration? Or spend $700 on Skylan Stands. To each his own I guess.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=42833
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I would think Sound Anchor stands would have a model that would work with these speakers. Does anyone know the suggested height of the stand?
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