New MOFI speaker (Andrew Jones)

I actually feel better doing so. 

Yes. Me too. Not worth it. Professional trolls are …. just that. Trolls full time. As they say, don’t wrestle pigs in the mud. You will never win, and the pig enjoys it. Or something like that.

"Have you ever upgraded coupling caps? If you know, you know.

It’s part of the hobby for me. Sorry if that bothers you."

Sounds like fun. I think some fail to realize that even the most brilliant designers/manufacturers have retained a bit of intellectual humility and recognize that their knowledge base is incomplete. There is always something new to discover. Secondly, in any commercial venture there is a finite amount of time and resources you can assign to a project before you have to take the D&E exit and go into production. Why not $10k a pair? Because "under $4k" would attract a lot more customers, and (arguably) provide more bang for the buck. So, you do what you have to do to hit a price point.

We may have just been introduced to an instant Hi-Fi classic, the best under $5k speaker ever produced. That being said, it doesn’t mean that with a little TLC, it can’t be improved. Or, have a blast as a speaker geek tossing parts around.

fyi- A while back I took a pair of AJ’s designed Pioneer SB-L22s apart and upgraded the crossovers to see how much music you can get out of a (at the time) $150 pair of speakers. Surprising. I also performed some serious upgrades to one of the most commercially and sonically successful speakers in recent memory, auditioned the finished product to the manufacturer and had some influence on their future "flagship" models. Even "classics" can be improved.

So, any first-hand experience with balanced/floating crossover designs?

I have diy’d several speakers and subs in years past. You could do that on simpler designs with no issues. Andrew Jones and his bottom end budget speakers (where he was literally given a 40 dollar budget to work with), for example....yeah, you can do some diy upgrades. Nevertheless, even Danny Richie got put in his place years ago by AJ on that lil budget Pioneer speaker. I’ll share that back n forth discussion, if i can find it.

On his 5k and above type of speakers where the dude had a decent budget to work with, especially the Elac Adante series, which i own...No, i wouldn’t touch that coupled cavity design of his. When that dude went into depth on how he modeled it, etc, etc before he even started to spec or dev any hardware, i was humbled. It ain’t all that simple as changing out a stupid li’l cap. But, then again, every forum guy around here is a freak genius diy expert in his own head.

On certain 20k, 30k, etc, clown car speakers designed by some "high end" dude, sure, no problem, upgrade away, fix the crap.

@c_avila1

"Have you ever upgraded coupling caps? If you know, you know.

It’s part of the hobby for me. Sorry if that bothers you."

Sounds like fun. I think some fail to realize that even the most brilliant designers/manufacturers have retained a bit of intellectual humility and recognize that their knowledge base is incomplete. There is always something new to discover. Secondly, in any commercial venture there is a finite amount of time and resources you can assign to a project before you have to take the D&E exit and go into production. Why not $10k a pair? Because "under $4k" would attract a lot more customers, and (arguably) provide more bang for the buck. So, you do what you have to do to hit a price point.

We may have just been introduced to an instant Hi-Fi classic, the best under $5k speaker ever produced. That being said, it doesn’t mean that with a little TLC, it can’t be improved. Or, have a blast as a speaker geek tossing parts around.

fyi- A while back I took a pair of AJ’s designed Pioneer SB-L22s apart and upgraded the crossovers to see how much music you can get out of a (at the time) $150 pair of speakers. Surprising. I also performed some serious upgrades to one of the most commercially and sonically successful speakers in recent memory, auditioned the finished product to the manufacturer and had some influence on their future "flagship" models. Even "classics" can be improved.

So, any first-hand experience with balanced/floating crossover designs?

@roxy54 I've been staying away of late due to the declining civility here so I thankfully missed that one. I just peruse the threads, smile or shake my head, and move on as it can get too taxing trading barbs with ne'er-do-wells.

I actually feel better doing so. 

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise 

You have to realize that this is the same character that called Ralph Karsten a liar regarding his experience as a musician and electronics designer.

Trolling at its best.

@deep_333 What on earth does Mikey's experience with a dealer asking to sell his product and being nefarious about it have to do with a discussion about a speaker that audiopoint happens to sell? He was quite upfront about it all and merely offered advice. There was no hard sell going on. That's a hell of a lot of conflating and implying going on that simply doesn't apply.

But, by all means, feel free to think whatever it is you want in this day and age and carry on with the trolling. Dissect this thread and link whatever you think is relevant to your hearts content so we can discount it and move on with our lives.

All the best,
Nonoise

@deep_333 What a weird and stupid thing to say. A couple of positive things some members say about something and you troll it as a conspiracy and possibly gay? You need to grow up some. This is not Reddit or YouTube, despite your efforts.

I’d like to but he did need some dressing down.

@nonoise , You didn’t dress down anybody. Some threads just start to get just a li’l strange/suspicious from time to time, y’know. Dealers <---> " apparently respected members" backstage agreements and the like...

Here, scroll over to 5:20. I’ve known all about this phenomenon since the dawn of the internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcN1rEGYfsc

Next, i might start linking a few specific threads and elaborate on where exactly they started to get just a li’l strange/suspicious (for educational purposes, would help out some unsuspecting audio enthusiasts).

But, sorry, if you didn’t fall in that category...Nevertheless, a guy is free to think his thoughts in this day and age...

@deep_333 What a weird and stupid thing to say. A couple of positive things some members say about something and you troll it as a conspiracy and possibly gay?  You need to grow up some. This is not Reddit or YouTube, despite your efforts. 

@roxy54 I'd like to but he did need some dressing down.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise

Ignore him. He enjoys attacking respected members; probably because he knows he will never be one.

While you're in there, install some .1uf or .01uf bypass caps, and let us know what you hear.

thank you, I am done designing speakers for good. I will just get ideas from this forum. -Andrew

Good idea, AJ. Your expertise pales next to the audio geniuses on forums.

McGowan is another one. I enjoy his posters putting him in his place on the PS forum.

@thyname 👍😄👍

@nonoise : congratulations on your new speakers my friend!

Thanks, @nonoise  , I found your review here on A'gon . . . they sound intriguing.

@immatthewj  I went with the Revival Audio Atalante 3 monitors (w/stands). 

I don't see myself parting with them any time soon. 😄

All the best,
Nonoise

While you're in there, install some .1uf or .01uf bypass caps, and let us know what you hear.

thank you, I am done designing speakers for good. I will just get ideas from this forum. -Andrew

@immatthewj , You're right....I didn't pull the trigger on this one. I opted for something smaller and more manageable and couldn't be happier. 

@nonoise  , what did you go with?  I am debating a speaker upgrade myself (I am currently listening to a pair of ancient B&W 805 Matrixes in a small room/nearfield listening) and I am constantly window shopping on the internet for possible options. 

@immatthewj , You're right....I didn't pull the trigger on this one. I opted for something smaller and more manageable and couldn't be happier. 

All the best,
Nonoise

I have read this recently resurrected thread from start to finish and am intrigued.  I am wondering if anyone has experience with either the SP10 or SP8 in a small room/near field listening?  @nonoise  , I am assuming that you did not pull the trigger on a pair, or did I some how miss that?

Have you ever upgraded coupling caps? If you know, you know.

It's part of the hobby for me. Sorry if that bothers you.

If any of the sourcepoint 10 owners happen to access the speaker cabinet, please post a crossover parts list and their values. While you're in there, install some .1uf or .01uf bypass caps, and let us know what you hear.

Do you understand driver design+crossover optimization better than Andrew Jones?

Absolutely! I love tweaking components and will share my findings with you all. However, I need to downsize my systems and will look into new speakers with the Mofi under my radar. I don't have the speakers yet, but a fellow DIYer can help persuade me to make a final decision depending on how accessible the crossovers are.

@c_avila1 

Why don't you do that and report back?

If any of the sourcepoint 10 owners happen to access the speaker cabinet, please post a crossover parts list and their values. While you're in there, install some .1uf or .01uf bypass caps, and let us know what you hear.

Same speaker type as most Tannoy models.  Do these sound as good as Tannoys?

Audiophile Junkie just posted an interview with Andrew Jones on the SP 8: https://youtu.be/b-OI6FwRAiE

It's the exact same driver as in the SP 10 but trimmed to size.

GET THEM ! 

Not all speakers rated at 87db perform alike. My Atalante 3 monitors are 87 db and  my JBL 4319 are 92db and when I listen to the Atalantes, the volume is turned up only 1 to 1.5db to get the same room filling sound. That's 3 steps on the volume setting if I need to go up 1.5db. Any decent amp will reach levels you wouldn't want to listen to.

As for the bass, the JBLs are -6db @38Hz and the Atalantes are -3db @ 44Hz and it took all of 2 minutes to adjust to the sound of the bass. In fact, it's more tight and defined but not as overpowering. 

All the best,
Nonoise

Apparently, Hoffman’s iron rule plays here but the trade-off seems too steep. I am on board with @jjss49 in regards to the sensitivity and the ability to use warmer, lower power amp with SP 10. Don’t know if this is a wishful thinking that someone (if not AJ himself) could eventually come up a design with a breakthrough to Hoffman’s rule, i.e., nice 7-8 inch coaxial woofer/tweeter in a SP-8 cabinet that goes down to sub 40 hz and >=90 dB sensitiveity. I’ll jump on it.  Buchardt has  almost done that even in a smaller closed box.

One of the big challenges in designing the speaker was to have a 10” woofer respond high enough for the 1.6 khz crossover point (the speaker must have a bandwidth much higher than this point even with a 12 db/octave slope).  That makes it quite impressive that some vintage 18” drivers can operate way up beyond this point.  

+1 @mapman 

Ah yes. 10 “ drivers. 8” drivers. Just like the good old days! My ohms are 12” and 8” drivers respectively. Hurray for Real speakers not with undersized drivers that are still around these days and are of high quality but  that won’t break the bank. Happy Days!

larry - great point, one which had eluded me earlier

sp 10 is 91 db/wm whereas sp-8 is only 87 db/wm --- that is a significant sensitivity difference... a major selling point of the 10 was its fairly high efficiency allowing use with lower powered tube amps, single ended sweeties... that is something definitely traded away if one goes with the 8’s

With most of the research cost already sunk in the Source 10, a smaller and cheaper version is something that makes sense.  I've seen and heard the Source 10 (pretty nice sounding speaker), and while I liked how it looked, it struck me as being a bit too large for a lot of rooms as far as aesthetics are concerned.  The Source 8 should find favor in most domestic settings.  If bass extension and high volume capability are the primary areas of compromise vis-a-vis the Source 10, that won't be too bad because it struck me that the Source 10 had plenty to spare in these areas.  If it is efficiency that suffers the most, that would be a bigger deal as the best sounding amps (to me) are somewhat low in power.

I think most people will find the 8" driver of the SP-8 to more than satisfy for their musical needs. I have a 7" driver in my two way Atalante 3 monitors and they are just a tad shy in the bass compared to my JBL 4319s with their 12" driver, but that's  in my small-ish room. I get all the bass I need with that 7" driver.

This is a smart move by Mofi in reducing the imposing size of the SP-10 to accommodate tastes and the old WAF.

All the best,
Nonoise

I really enjoyed the SP 10’s sound, but the size was a bit too much for my living space to where i had to unload them. I would be willing to revisit them at the smaller size in exchange for less bass depth and slam.

• SP 10: 14.5” x 22.5” x 16.6” (WxHxD), 46.2 lbs each

• SP 8: 11.4” x 18” x 13.2” (WxHxD), 27.9 lbs each

Looks like they are $2750 sans stands and $2999 with the stands. According to the link above...

smart next product in the launch plan

i always kinda wonder how the midrange purity would be with the tweet crossed over into the 10 in woof, neither perfectly suited to the vocals range ... 8 in driver may well produce more precise, purer mids, at some sacrifice to the bass depth and impact, and overall easefulness of the sound

i am sure one or more of the talking heads on the ’tube will do a comparo soon! ... or maybe someone here!

The MoFi Sourcepoint 8 is now available for order.  $3000.00 plus $250.00 for the stands, if you want them.

MoFi Sourcepoint 8

Music Direct is running a special offer, if you purchase the new MOFI speakers and don't like them Music Direct will pick up the cost of return shipping.https://www.musicdirect.com/audition-mofi-electronics-sourcepoint-10?sc_src=email_3427087&amp;sc_lid=233389523&amp;sc_uid=kKEjFFAfqd&amp;sc_llid=87826&amp;utm_source=Emarsys&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=musicdirect+soundbytes+issue+%231089_5_04-07-23sc_eh=9d64fd06b3ab51201

good speakers, no doubt

but somehow i have a picture in my mind of a warehouse chock full of these speakers on sitting on pallets, looking for good homes

i suspect to keep the cost per pair low, many many pairs were manufactured in a sizable bulk order, and a full container load has landed here in the usa...

in any case, it results in a great offering to potential customers interested in hearing a pair in their own systems

Not in this special case with the SourcePoints. The linked ad clearly states MD covers both shipping to the customer AND the return shipping, no exceptions.

+100%

Not in this special case with the SourcePoints. The linked ad clearly states MD covers both shipping to the customer AND the return shipping, no exceptions.

Music Direct covers the return shipping IF the return is due to damaged / deflective items. But if the return is simply "don’t like it", the customer will be responsible for the return shipping.

@jjss49 Music Direct covers the return shipping IF the return is due to damaged / deflective items. But if the return is simply "don’t like it", the customer will be responsible for the return shipping. Their 60 days’ in-home auditioning policy is indeed very gracious although I do not encourge people to abuse it. The staffs are courteous and responsive. Highly recommended.

I agree the offer that Music Direct is offering is awesome. If I was only looking for another pair of speakers...

man, great deal indeed, as they cover return shipping too in event of return...

that is some seriously aggressive retailing... (and vast confidence in the product..or something else not as complimentary ... 😂).

Look at this deal!!!

https://link.musicdirect.com/u/gm.php?prm=nAIcTsePFM_785278652_3423718_41691&amp;_esuh=_11_37ae8aa1670fbdeb763456022537ab01db0cb5e9e2617832c7e60500c41eaeb6

woj pacula is an excellent reviewer... one of the best out there

i recall a little while back his review of the spendor classic 100 and comparing it to the harbeth mon 40... wonderful review, so insightful and complete, and absolutely spot on in his sonic observations imo

I had my Sourcepoint 10's for 4 months now. They are game changers in high end audio. I received my Mofi stands. I cannot imagine better sound anywhere.