Need a DAC Recommendation.
@ghasley and what is your point? It is still one of the best sounding DAC’s on the market today. I have DAC’s from Bel Canto, Simaudio that cost 3 times what my BP Se cost and the BP SE is my favorite. It is also the unit that gets the most use in my office system with my QS Integrated. Wonderful combination and made in the USA. |
I'm pretty happy with this: https://borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm I upgraded from a Jolida Glass and never looked back. It will only take one input but I only use it for my Node2i. Warm, nice soundstage and looks to be well built. Happy listening! |
Wow, the
Matrix Audio Mini-i Pro 3 has gone up in price. It is pretty good and I owned it for about 6 months. I bought it on Black Friday for $850. However, for $1350 it is no where close to the Gustard X26 Pro at $1500 (I got for $1350 new). The Benchmark DAC3B is a bit better than the Matrix Audio Mini-i Pro 3. However, the all in one nature of the Matrix Audio Mini-i Pro 3 is a great selling point. |
I was just reading the asr of the new topping d90se and the gustard x26. Both measure great but the 3rd harmonic of the new topping is-130db and the gustard is-115. John Curl has studied this and finds that the odd order harmonics is really bad. No company ever indicates which order of harmonic is being produced by their product. I can tell you, this is what makes a product sound musical. Remember, no instruments or human voice ever goes above about 4khz. But it's the harmonics that allow you to tell the difference between a violin playing a c note or if it's a piano. |
Hello, RME ADI -2 DAC $1150. I like how you can adjust the EQ to fit your system. John Darko reviewed this and rated it very high. Plus you pick the sound signature. The Topping is very good too. The Denifrips Ares 2 is good. I just like how you can set up the RME. Be careful of R2R DACs if your system is already warm or tubes. If you have SS go with the RME or the Denifrips. You will need to jump above $1500 to go to the next level. |
just a few comments based on earlier posts below -- the border patrol dac uses its tube, a rectifier, in its power supply - it is not directly in the signal path, either as a driver of, or as a buffer for its analog outputs -- you do get what you pay for, but some models do bring more value than others, esp. those with direct sales channels (denafrips vs ps audio, for instance) - or if you value features and lots of ancillary functions, the rme adi2 is terrific for its price, even if it is more on ’clean and lean’ side of the sonic palette with chord, and the better bitstream chi-fi dacs -- as for denafrips, i had trouble with the entry level ares ii, it had an annoying sibilance (for me, a major no-no) that i could not cure with cables, input choices, nos/os settings etc etc... but stepping up to their next level pontus model did the trick... a very very good sounding dac (though 2x the ares price) -- don’t overlook the wonderful ayre codex for under a grand used, if you are a headphone listener as well as standard in-room two channel... excellent sound, very balanced presentation |
https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/measurements-of-gustard-x26-pro/ Gustard X26-pro test vanson1, I see Gustard multitone performance is the best achievable, and that is the most important DAC perf-metric. third order is about -125dB, which is perfect. Third order harmonic increase over topping is because Gustard has discrete class-a analog signal path, which on my experience is better than regular OPAMP chip design. |
I adore my Doge Audio Tube DAC. In my system and my room, it beat out lots of stuff and it's been too difficult to find a reasonably priced upgrade so it stays. Due to demand, prices have gone up. I think it you could get them delivered in 3-4 days for $1400 when I bought mine. They might be edging upward now though. Be sure to research and look at the parts quality in the DACs. The Doge has British caps throughout. It's a holographic powerhouse. Can't say enough good things about it. https://doge.audio/product/doge-7-tube-dac/ |
@what I do not leave it on all the time. I turn it on in the morning and shut it down around 1AM. I am usually listening to tunes during that time. In the course of the day the unit does get warm. It is the warmest DAC I have owned but it is not scalding hot. The heat that it generates is likely not ideal for long term ownership. I am pretty confident I can get 5 years easy with this DAC. I believe there is a Class A output stage on this DAC and that is what makes it warm. I sit 2 feet away from the DAC and do not feel the heat from it. I also do not notice that the DAC sounds any worse in the morning after turn on, but then again I am pretty groggy in the morning. |
IMHO, buying a used DAC is like buying a used cell phone. i read these words but i have no idea what this means, what is the point... i have bought and sold 20-25 used dacs over the past year plus, ranging from $400 to $4000, and have been able to learn for myself how different dacs perform, and have done so fairly cost effectively I wonder if there are any significant audible benefits to spending more than $500 on a new DAC in 2021…there is... but as the saying goes, just cuz you can’t tell the difference on your system... 😁😁 |
The Denafrips Pontus to me is better than the much more expensive (overpriced) Terminator and a used one makes sense. Not mentioned here are the Monarchy DACs, they have been around awhile, can be found at a good price and sound great. The bulk of DACs today sound detailed to a point of distraction. This over-detailed sound is impressive at first but soon becomes fatiguing, but in a comparison stands out above the rest to get your attention. Don't overlook the older units built like tanks that will outlast much of today's offerings. I still use my Wadia 15 which plays redbook only and have heard nothing better., about $1000/1500 used. I have another DAC to play hi-res and hardly use it. There is a Manley, if you can find one, Theta Gen V and lots of others. There is a list of DAC chips on the net used by various manufacturers. Look out for units that use Burr-Brown PCM 63, 1702 and 1704 plus some others I can't remember. There are many units sitting somewhere unloved and unwanted going cheaply that will play redbook better than just about anything modern. It's simple, the old redbook players were designed around the architecture of the day without the distraction of 'hi-res' which was not available then. The early TDA1541 chips were ubiquitous and are still used today. One such is Audio Note and if you search may find one in your price range. Very musical. |
paulcreed354 posts06-24-2021 6:37pmI have the RME adi-2 and MHDT Orchid and enjoy both but very different. I added the Teddy Pardue psu to the RME and added better caps and 6sn7 and 6922 tube adapters to th MHDT. He's right. The RME will give you maximum return for $$ under $20k. Higher price no result. It will not convert A>D, get a Babyface for that. The Teddy super-regulator adds a slight edge. |
I use all digital sources, so currently running an all tube system. I've used an MHDT Orchid for a while now and enjoy it very much, sound is warm, but not overly so. Plenty of detail. My second r2r DAC- they beat the pants off high oversampling DACs to me. Do kind of wish the tube could be switched in/out of the signal path, it's nice to have that option if one enjoys a wide variety of genres and styles. |
@earlflynn Sorry, I am just seeing your question. My point was exactly what I said: that the tube in the Border Patrol Dac is in the power supply and NOT in the signal path. If you read the post immediately preceding mine, you would see the posts I was responding to. I happen to agree with you that it is a terrific dac. I certainly meant no offense and had to look back in the thread to see where you had posted that you might have one for sale. While I dont see how my post could have caused you alarm, no offense was intended. Just stating a fact about the tube’s purpose in the dac. |
“ A22 is 95% of the what the X26 does from a reviewer who has reviewed both” I wouldn’t rely on reviewer much. A22’s AK4499EQ DAC chip is: "The world's highest-performance DAC, with 140dB SNR (mono-aural mode) and -124dB THD+N”, and assuming A22 is a dual AK4499EQ mono-aural mode design, it should satisfy very high performance expectations. There are many missing from test reports details, such as additional power filters in AC power, cables, etc. Another problem with high quality DAC measurements is tester limitations and tester settings/calibration/usage mode, which typically can be seen as test-results difference between reviewers. In addition, manufacturing companies sending “cherry picked - enhanced"units for test-review, and “randomly obtainable” product can perform worse than reviewed sample. |
One more choice in your price range: Okto $1400 and includes a streamer. https://www.stereophile.com/content/okto-dac8-stereo-da-processor |
ripleydog, I understand your comment wishing to take the tube out of Orchid would make things more interesting. The closest thing I found to making it sound a little more neutral and transparent was adding the Garage 1217 adapter and using a 6922 Amprex bugle boy or SQ/PQ, I preferred the bugle boy more. |
I wouldn't buy any DAC based solely on someone else's recommendation, simply because there is so much variation in sonics from one to another, not to mention variations in person taste. This makes the process of buying used more challenging. If you buy used from The Music Room, for example, at least you can send it back if you don't like it. |
I believe the following list includes every DAC mentioned so far in this thread. If a price was mentioned, I included that too. Audio GD R2R-1 (R2R) Audio GD R8 MK2 dac (R2R) Audio Mirror Tubadour Ayre Codex - for less than $1K Ayre codex - under a grand used Benchmark DAC3 B Black Ice Audio Glass FX DAC -on sale for $699 at Underwood HiFi. Border Patrol SE (R2R) - used for $850. (lowest tier is $1075 new) Chord mojo for 500 or so Chord qutest $1400 Denafrips Ares ll - a little under $800 Denafrips Pontus II - $1700 US Doge Audio Tube DAC - above $1400? Gustard A22 Gustard X26 Pro Holo Audio MHDT Atlantis MHDT Labs Orchid Matrix Audio Mini-i Pro 3 - $1350 Monarchy DACs Musical Paradise DAC Okto dac8 Stereo D/A processor - Parasound Zdac (discontinued version) RME ADI2 Dac FS - about $1200 RME adi-2 SMSL M400 Schiit Gungnir multibit Schiit Yggdrasil GS for 1600$ Teac NT-505 Topping D90SE - $899 Topping d70s Wadia di122 over on Ebay for <$1K I'm looking for a DAC and I would probably get the "Okto dac8 Stereo D/A Processor", but they have -- unfortunately -- stopped taking new orders for it (for now). ASR https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/okto-dac8-stereo-dac-review.14705/ I enjoyed the sound of the SMSL M400. (I had a unit with defective Bluetooth, so I returned it.) I could order another one, but I really wanted the Okto dac8 stereo, even though I haven't heard it. I like it in part because of the connections and other features, and I expect it to sound good. If anyone has heard the Okto and the SMSL M400, how do they compare? |
“The latest build of RME adi-2 DAC is now using an ESS Sabre chip.” https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html 5 paragraphs down... "The updated ADI-2 DAC uses ESS’s ES9028Q2M in a special circuit variant developed by RME engineers that allows the chip to perform at its best. With noise levels of 123 dBA, distortion less than -120 dB, or THD+N of -116 dB, the device delivers outstanding measured values, and allows the IEM output to reach a sensational low noise level of -121 dBu. In addition, there is +2.5 dB of digital headroom, so that high intersample peaks do not produce any audible distortion. The reserve in volume setting results in a still undistorted analog output signal even at a volume setting of +2.5 dB." searching the internet isn’t so hard... 💻💻💻 |
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