Also highly recommend the Gustard X26 Pro. Only had it a few days and so much detail revealed that I wasn't hearing before. Have a Cambridge 200m in my outside system that I will ride for a bit longer, but will eventually replace with another one. The details I'm now getting from my regular ripped 16/44 Cds is amazing, let alone SACDs or Bluray Audio discs. Was using Krell's DAC previously.
Need a DAC Recommendation.
Im retired and can only spend $1200 to $1500 on a DAC. What would you recommend? I assume I will be in the Used market. Thanks!
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@allhifi +1 on Gustard I have two Gustard DACs, A22/A20H, both are well designed / built, class A balanced - unbalanced (RCA) output stages suitable for 5k+ price class, very low noise power supply block' based on two toroidal-low EM leak transformers, with separated digital and analog paths etc. | ||||
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The Gustard 'X-22' is a brilliant DAC ! ($1099. USD). It is a much better DAC than the Chord 'Qutest' -and by a wide margin. Similarly, the 9038PRO/ESS chip-set is head/shoulders above Gustard's older 9028-PRO chip set (i.e. 'X-20PRO'). The resolution/layering, fluidity of playback is immediately and obviously improved in the 9038/Gustard implementation. pj
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I have the Topping D90se DAC (the latest) and it is rather good. It is in the neutral camp so I think it would pair well with some warm electronics or speakers. I actually use them with Benchmark AHB2 (which are not warm) but this combo is in the camp of adding nothing to the sound. It is the opposite of my other system so it is a nice change of pace for me. The D90Se is $899 (or 599, I forgot). Another DAC that is also a great buy at $1350 (on sale now) is the Gustard X26 Pro. This is a warmer DAC and a DAC people should try on home trial before they spend more money. There are 4 filters and NOS/OS mode to tailor the sound. | ||||
Toppings makes great products. blah blah blah it’s about the music, the magic of the performance, the emotional connection ... measurements may instruct at some rudimentary level but do not even capture a half of it | ||||
I recommend Ares II. Today I put back in Qutest and I was not too happy. Chord was resolving but sound was thin. Ares II warmer and fuller but wee bit less resolving like in layering of stage and top end air but Ares more enjoyable to listen to. With Qutest I wanted to turn my system off and call it a day! | ||||
as @mesch said, the naive come here and seek recommendations for what’s ’better’, without articulating what that means in their application the pontus is the warmest toned of all the dena dacs, lots of mid and midbass ’bloom’, somewhat laid back treble, so if you have a lean system, for instance, solid state amps driving b&w’s or monitor audio’s then it could well bring you modicum of body and full tone to the music otoh, if you have a warmer system lacking impact and speed, say, a typical tube amp driving harbeths or vandy's -- then a chord unit will bring a greater sense of ’life’, rhythm and speed to go along with the lovely midrange tonality ’better’ in high end hifi is meaningful in an ’applied’ sense, more than ’intrinsically’, when you are dealing with quality items | ||||
op - you are now getting a list of a few dozen dacs to choose from, does that help? 😂 @soix's reply to you early on is the most important one... if you need help narrowing down the field, i suggest you invest some time writing here about the rest of your system, the music you like, your room setup, type of sound you value (powerful bass, specific, big imaging, etc etc etc) then knowledgeable folks here can try to steer you in the right direction | ||||
If you want a DAC that provides the same level of signal conversion accuracy that is enjoyed by many studios, the RME ADI-2 DAC fs is your best bet. German precision at an affordable price, with plenty of onboard features to boot. Learning to navigate the extensive menu options can initially be a little intimidating, but becomes second nature after some use. I believe the current iteration of this DAC, the V2, uses the AKM 4493 chip. From the website: "The updated ADI-2 DAC uses AKM’s AK4493 in a special circuit variant developed by RME engineers that allows the chip to perform at its best. With noise levels of 123 dBA, distortion less than -120 dB, or THD+N of -116 dB, the device delivers outstanding measured values. Even the IEM output, with -118 dBu already the world’s lowest noise headphone output, improves to a sensational -121 dBu. In addition, there is 4 dB of digital headroom, so that even high intersample peaks do not produce any audible distortion. Finally, the device now also offers a clear reserve in volume setting. +2.5 dB result in a still undistorted analog output signal." | ||||
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“The latest build of RME adi-2 DAC is now using an ESS Sabre chip.” https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html 5 paragraphs down... "The updated ADI-2 DAC uses ESS’s ES9028Q2M in a special circuit variant developed by RME engineers that allows the chip to perform at its best. With noise levels of 123 dBA, distortion less than -120 dB, or THD+N of -116 dB, the device delivers outstanding measured values, and allows the IEM output to reach a sensational low noise level of -121 dBu. In addition, there is +2.5 dB of digital headroom, so that high intersample peaks do not produce any audible distortion. The reserve in volume setting results in a still undistorted analog output signal even at a volume setting of +2.5 dB." searching the internet isn’t so hard... 💻💻💻 | ||||
I believe the following list includes every DAC mentioned so far in this thread. If a price was mentioned, I included that too. Audio GD R2R-1 (R2R) Audio GD R8 MK2 dac (R2R) Audio Mirror Tubadour Ayre Codex - for less than $1K Ayre codex - under a grand used Benchmark DAC3 B Black Ice Audio Glass FX DAC -on sale for $699 at Underwood HiFi. Border Patrol SE (R2R) - used for $850. (lowest tier is $1075 new) Chord mojo for 500 or so Chord qutest $1400 Denafrips Ares ll - a little under $800 Denafrips Pontus II - $1700 US Doge Audio Tube DAC - above $1400? Gustard A22 Gustard X26 Pro Holo Audio MHDT Atlantis MHDT Labs Orchid Matrix Audio Mini-i Pro 3 - $1350 Monarchy DACs Musical Paradise DAC Okto dac8 Stereo D/A processor - Parasound Zdac (discontinued version) RME ADI2 Dac FS - about $1200 RME adi-2 SMSL M400 Schiit Gungnir multibit Schiit Yggdrasil GS for 1600$ Teac NT-505 Topping D90SE - $899 Topping d70s Wadia di122 over on Ebay for <$1K I'm looking for a DAC and I would probably get the "Okto dac8 Stereo D/A Processor", but they have -- unfortunately -- stopped taking new orders for it (for now). ASR https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/okto-dac8-stereo-dac-review.14705/ I enjoyed the sound of the SMSL M400. (I had a unit with defective Bluetooth, so I returned it.) I could order another one, but I really wanted the Okto dac8 stereo, even though I haven't heard it. I like it in part because of the connections and other features, and I expect it to sound good. If anyone has heard the Okto and the SMSL M400, how do they compare? | ||||
I wouldn't buy any DAC based solely on someone else's recommendation, simply because there is so much variation in sonics from one to another, not to mention variations in person taste. This makes the process of buying used more challenging. If you buy used from The Music Room, for example, at least you can send it back if you don't like it. | ||||
ripleydog, I understand your comment wishing to take the tube out of Orchid would make things more interesting. The closest thing I found to making it sound a little more neutral and transparent was adding the Garage 1217 adapter and using a 6922 Amprex bugle boy or SQ/PQ, I preferred the bugle boy more. | ||||
One more choice in your price range: Okto $1400 and includes a streamer. https://www.stereophile.com/content/okto-dac8-stereo-da-processor | ||||
“ A22 is 95% of the what the X26 does from a reviewer who has reviewed both” I wouldn’t rely on reviewer much. A22’s AK4499EQ DAC chip is: "The world's highest-performance DAC, with 140dB SNR (mono-aural mode) and -124dB THD+N”, and assuming A22 is a dual AK4499EQ mono-aural mode design, it should satisfy very high performance expectations. There are many missing from test reports details, such as additional power filters in AC power, cables, etc. Another problem with high quality DAC measurements is tester limitations and tester settings/calibration/usage mode, which typically can be seen as test-results difference between reviewers. In addition, manufacturing companies sending “cherry picked - enhanced"units for test-review, and “randomly obtainable” product can perform worse than reviewed sample. | ||||
@earlflynn Sorry, I am just seeing your question. My point was exactly what I said: that the tube in the Border Patrol Dac is in the power supply and NOT in the signal path. If you read the post immediately preceding mine, you would see the posts I was responding to. I happen to agree with you that it is a terrific dac. I certainly meant no offense and had to look back in the thread to see where you had posted that you might have one for sale. While I dont see how my post could have caused you alarm, no offense was intended. Just stating a fact about the tube’s purpose in the dac. | ||||
I use all digital sources, so currently running an all tube system. I've used an MHDT Orchid for a while now and enjoy it very much, sound is warm, but not overly so. Plenty of detail. My second r2r DAC- they beat the pants off high oversampling DACs to me. Do kind of wish the tube could be switched in/out of the signal path, it's nice to have that option if one enjoys a wide variety of genres and styles. | ||||
paulcreed354 posts06-24-2021 6:37pmI have the RME adi-2 and MHDT Orchid and enjoy both but very different. I added the Teddy Pardue psu to the RME and added better caps and 6sn7 and 6922 tube adapters to th MHDT. He's right. The RME will give you maximum return for $$ under $20k. Higher price no result. It will not convert A>D, get a Babyface for that. The Teddy super-regulator adds a slight edge. | ||||
The Denafrips Pontus to me is better than the much more expensive (overpriced) Terminator and a used one makes sense. Not mentioned here are the Monarchy DACs, they have been around awhile, can be found at a good price and sound great. The bulk of DACs today sound detailed to a point of distraction. This over-detailed sound is impressive at first but soon becomes fatiguing, but in a comparison stands out above the rest to get your attention. Don't overlook the older units built like tanks that will outlast much of today's offerings. I still use my Wadia 15 which plays redbook only and have heard nothing better., about $1000/1500 used. I have another DAC to play hi-res and hardly use it. There is a Manley, if you can find one, Theta Gen V and lots of others. There is a list of DAC chips on the net used by various manufacturers. Look out for units that use Burr-Brown PCM 63, 1702 and 1704 plus some others I can't remember. There are many units sitting somewhere unloved and unwanted going cheaply that will play redbook better than just about anything modern. It's simple, the old redbook players were designed around the architecture of the day without the distraction of 'hi-res' which was not available then. The early TDA1541 chips were ubiquitous and are still used today. One such is Audio Note and if you search may find one in your price range. Very musical. | ||||
IMHO, buying a used DAC is like buying a used cell phone. i read these words but i have no idea what this means, what is the point... i have bought and sold 20-25 used dacs over the past year plus, ranging from $400 to $4000, and have been able to learn for myself how different dacs perform, and have done so fairly cost effectively I wonder if there are any significant audible benefits to spending more than $500 on a new DAC in 2021…there is... but as the saying goes, just cuz you can’t tell the difference on your system... 😁😁 | ||||
