My list of seller red flags

agree, items listed as New, then the description says only used 20 hours...

If you buy on a very reputable site like Audigone, much of that inherently gets filtered out.  I don't see a lot of what you're describing in your post, other than the sometimes questionable pics/stock photos.  I'm not sure what's wrong with "gimmicky" pricing, as we 2nd hand sellers take our queues from retailers.  We wouldn't say $995 at BB is gimmicky.  Also, you'll pass on a lot good deals if you read too much into firm pricing.  If it's more than you want to pay, move on.  I've bought things at firm prices and snagged really good deals to the extent that had I waited another x minutes, it would have been gone.

If I'm interested in a product, I'll ask the seller a question to gauge responsiveness, tone, etc.  I was interested in a Parasound amp one time and did just this.  The seller took days to answer my questions and tried to answer in one word or less.  I didn't care about the seller ratings at that point- I moved on.  By and large, I too base most of my decision on the seller ratings, as they speak volumes.  But pay careful attention to the reviews.  Sometimes they're through no fault of the seller and the buyer wasn't reasonable, if they're limited in number.         

This is more of a pet peeve, but sellers who claim the item is brand new in box never used...only opened to inspect and test and list the condition as new instead of mint. 

And then we have items with some pretty good scratches listed as a 7/10. The Audiogon scale is not forgiving and these items should be a 4/10 or 5/10. I go to sell an item that is truly a 7/10 and get comparable links sent to me...it used to be that I could say, okay that item was pretty beat up compared to mine...but now you can't see the photos on old listings...God I'm rambling. sorry

My indicator of true marketing skills is when seller posts an ad that reads, "If you are looking at this, then you know what it is all about."

Or, whenever I see "stunning" in ads or reviews, for that matter. So, you are selling it because it is "stunning".

When I'm selling something, it's not because I'm desperate, and it's going to be on my terms.  It's usually because I've replaced the item with something else and would like to see the old item go to a good home.  Not to some jerk.  

Yes, I try to make the ad and photos as good as possible and I go out of my way to answer any questions someone might have, even if they don't seem like they're a potential buyer. 

I put things like "price is firm" because... well, it is.  I priced it to sell and have done research to see what the typical used price is for the item.  I don't want to respond to "Will you take _____?" (which is usually around 50 - 60% of the selling price). 

I mostly sell local, shipping takes extra time and effort.  It's an hour round trip drive to the closest UPS store.  If I don't have to, why should I?  Maybe I'll get a little more for the item, but then what's that worth in comparison to my time, which is limited? 

If it doesn't sell right away, what else are you going to do but re-post the ad?  I've re-posted ads for months before something sold.  Someone eventually buys it and more often than not I get what I want for the item.

On the other hand, if someone is polite, sends full sentences in their messages, asks thoughtful questions, and is easy to deal with, I'm more likely to go out of my way for them, give them a little break on the price, or maybe throw in some extra cables.

You catch more bees with honey.  I can't tell you how many times I've sat and shot the breeze with someone who came to buy something and is nice and enthusiastic about the hobby.  I really enjoy those transactions.  Some of the people I've bought and sold with locally have become friends or audio buddies.

When you're the buyer, the world doesn't revolve around you.  The seller has something you want.  How bad do you want it?  Enough to be kind, considerate, and reasonable? 

Don't be a cyrbaby if the seller doesn't kowtow to you.

The thought police have arrived here too. God forbid adults can apply ad copy discernment on their own, lol. My two cents: positive feedback. 

None of these offenses is worse than the pinball community.  Their latest crap listing is NOB. Meaning new out of box (and with only 50 or 100 plays).  It’s no longer new - and the discount is usually quite small compared with new from a dealer.   The worst of the worse here is better than many of the pinball lowlifes.  

I find the highest quality used gear here on audiogon. It is why I enjoy buying and selling here so much. You get what you pay for seems so true. Some of time I lose money on good pieces but enjoy selling to someone who appreciates the purchase . I sometimes am able to buy a piece of equipment for a fair reasonable price and it is still high quality and matches item description. So good. Makes the hobby a joy. I can’t always afford new equipment. I learn a lot more on Audiogon forum than I thought possible. Is great. Thank you everyone for posting, good thread.

"As for price is firm, it signals someone difficult to deal with."

No, it signals someone easy to deal with. Yes, no, done. Seller does not want to waste her/his or your time.

"It's the market that determines the price, not what you think it is worth."

No, it is the seller that determines amount she/he will separate from an item for.

My big Red Flag is powers up , unable to test. Everyone on Audiogon has the equipment to check what they are selling. Possibly reel to reel tapes may be a problem. Also extreme low balling , if you cant get close to the asking price, move on.

falconquest, I get it. We are in agreement. I was really asking the OP why he felt it necessary to create (and then advertise) a seller checklist. This is supposed to be a hobby. It it's not fun we call it work. Well, most of the time anyway...

@br3098 In response to your last question.....honesty. And an accurate description of the item offered. If I understand the condition, I know the price I am willing to pay. If an item is in great condition (and that's how I buy) then I will have done the research on the price and if I feel you're a good honest person then I will pay your price. That's how it works!

If an item is priced to sell you will not have to deal with low-ballers because it will sell before they get a chance to even see your ad. That is why explicitly saying "Price is firm" is unnecessary. It just makes you look stubborn and will scare away potential buyers.

Well, maybe. It sounds like it will simply scare YOU away.

Look, I don't often list gear as "firm" but if/when I do it's because there are a lot of low-ballers out there.

I understand that your job is to get gear as cheaply as you can, just as mine if to get as much for my gear as I can. There's usually a happy compromise that makes for a win-win. But your first post makes it sound (to me) as if you feel that sellers owe you something. Other than a complete description and and timely communication, what else is a seller obligated to provide?

Since I do not sell for profit, meaning, I sell to get the actual value the item, and not the perceived value, I stick to my guns as far as price. It could be tricky for someone out there trying to make an actual living. What I offer is simply done most of the time out of the love the project, and has been for over 5 years now. I really do understand the different aspects of negotiation, but offer the price that I choose (by actual cost to me) to begin with. 
 Too many times however, I am put off as a buyer when I see the phrase 'If you are reading this, you already know about this unit'. Absolutely not true in most cases for me. I want a detailed description of the actual unit and its capabilities. If known, a tale of the actual technology is also appreciated.

Folks with just 1 or 2 transactions here are schooling us with over 700? Interesting at least. 

@jl35.   Very funny and true!

I would much rather pay $927 than $1000.  

My main indicator on a seller (or a buyer), is the quality of their first response:  did they respond quickly?  Were they positive?  A jerk?  Etc.

I think you learn everything you need to know right away.

If an item is priced to sell you will not have to deal with low-ballers because it will sell before they get a chance to even see your ad. That is why explicitly saying "Price is firm" is unnecessary. It just makes you look stubborn and will scare away potential buyers.

When I am buying USED items UNSEEN I need to have a very strong positive feeling about the seller. Gimmicky pricing, stubborn language, incomplete details all detract from that happening..

Any price with a 9 in it or has more than 2 significant digits is gimmicky in my book.

I want to re-iterate the golden rule that is treat others like you wish to be treated that goes A long way in life and makes for happiness on both sides of the fence

@jollygreenaudiophile2 
"But I will say this anyway. I have sold probably as much used gear as anyone in say the top .005% tier as far as numbers. "     

You have two transactions here. What gives with that?

I am in sales and I constantly marvel over how people treat me sometimes. I sell industrial products so not everyday items that we would think of. People think they can treat me like crap. Well, guess what, those who do that do not get the best price and if they want to buy somewhere else, that's fine. For those that appreciate the effort I put into researching, designing and sourcing what they need I give them favorable pricing because those are the folks I want to work with over and over.


As a buyer here, I always assume that the initial price listed is based on an amount that allows for negotiation. I will not make an offer on an item unless I am willing to pay the price asked. I simply will make a lower bid because one never knows what the particular situation is. If the bid is rejected I will come back to near the original price. Likewise, when I sell I expect the same. So if someone makes a low priced offer I will kindly reject it and tell them what I am willing to accept. In other words, the first price discussed in a negotiation is just a way to get a feel for the lay of the land. I have actually had people accept my first offer. We both walked away happy.

One pet peeve of mine is speakers. I have found speakers many times that I would be willing to purchase but the person claims, "local pick-up only because I do not have the original boxes". And of course they live thousands of miles from me. So please people.....keep the original shipping cartons! I know it's difficult to find storage space. I keep all mine under the stairs in the basement. When you don't have the original cartons it requires the buyer to have someone create shipping cartons which can be quite expensive on top of the shipping costs.........and that leads to a lower priced offer.

As usual,  I thank uber for introducing a note of reality into a thread.
Some of the complaints here are valid, others are petty.  The one that got me was the poster who complains if they don’t get an immediate response to a phone call or email.  Do you think it is possible that the seller might have a day job unrelated to audio and not be able to drop everything to answer your questions?  I’m a Physician and I am not going to take of my PPE to answer your question that minute.  If I ask a question I expect 48 hours to be a reasonable window. After all, these a a fair amount of dollars being thrown around and are typically not impulse 
purchases

Don’t count on negative feedback...Audiogon prevented me from leaving reasonable and appropriate negative feedback after seller decided to back out of agreed on sale....

I tried to buy an amplifier from someone on Audiogon. I made an offer which I thought was very reasonable. The offer was about 8% lower than their asking price. I never heard a thing. I really wanted the amp so I messaged them directly and ask what they might want for the amp. Never heard from them. This is someone that list a lot of items for sale. Needless to say I bought from a dealer and actually got a great deal. The amp on Audiogon is still for sale over six months later. Sellers please respond to request. At least say not or counter offer. 

Most of this equipment depreciates quite quickly.  How much is a used piece of equipment worth?  As much as anyone is willing to pay for it.  I agree with all comment in this post, good to see that I'm not the only one who has dealt with sellers who exhibit some of those characteristics.

One the "buyer" side, I have had bad experiences with those who want to deal with the negotiation by email or cell phone, bypassing the Audiogon formal "offer" feature.  I had one guy call me and after the "dance", seemed to come to agreement on the price.  He drove the 90 minutes to get to my house for the pickup, when he arrived said that he thought about the price we agreed on and could only offer me $600 less.  Of course, I don't deal with people who do such things, let him know that.  He actually asked if he could see the unit.

You are going to do what you will. 
 But I will say this anyway. I have sold probably as much used gear as anyone in say the top .005% tier as far as numbers. All of it at least seen as "Decent" gear. Most would call the great majority of it, "Hi-end", or even, "Boutique" type. 
And all of it with the exception of a few pieces I sold as "Salvage" even though it did work was in incredible shape. Especially since I had each piece professionally serviced before I listed it. Not because any of it "Needed service". But because of my being an "Audiophile", myself. I felt obligated to do so.
 After the first month dealing with various "Knuckleheads", of dubious intent.. Many with seemingly nothing to do except to ask if I would cut the price by a ludicrous amount. I soon listed all of the gear I was selling with the pricing as "Firm, Non-Neg and NO Trades wanted" And also quit answering the messages and emails about the price and etc. Just ignoring them completely.
  That worked quite well for me!

Using undue amounts of judgment and black and white as a substitute for intellectual capacity.

It is a common theme when the given animal underneath it all reaches it’s limits.

When the fight or flight and other associated underlying I/O filters - begins to openly step in.

Then we attempt a reasoned discussion of these part of us that are individually -- not up to debate.

Not gonna work.

Maybe we should also focus on the buyer who makes an offer $2000 less than  an already fair asking price, seller is frustrated and just decides to sell it but he has to get harassed about if there’s any scratch or Scuffs anywhere when you’ve already discussed that in the original description of the product if you want new by new Then an hour after the money has exchanged wants to know if it’s shipped yet. Really How about the golden rule we learned that in elementary school 

I always want to know about the flaws. why would you not want that information?

I don’t know about buying on Audiogon, but a lot of sellers on other sites assume that people will offer them less than the asking price, just because . . . so they price the item higher than they will accept so they have negotiating room to come down.  I hear all the time, “don’t pay what they are asking for it . . get them to come down.”  I know people that will say to me, “That’s a good/fair price”, but then they offer less to see if the person will accept the lower offer.  Some people are not good negotiators and always end up paying the asking price (me) or end up selling the thing for less than it is worth.  That might be one reason for stating that the price is “firm” so they don’t have to negotiate.

I recently bought a 40 year old tuner from a local guy on Craigslist.  He wrote “price firm” ($20) and when I texted him to ask if there was any problem with it, he responded, “As I stated in the ad, everything is working good”.  That sounded unfriendly, but I thought I would go look at it.  When I arrived at his house, he and his wife were friendly.  He told me the tuner suddenly stopped going into stereo mode and he gave it to me for free.  I think he had tired of dealing with some of the . . Let’s say unscrupulous . . buyers out there and has attitude at the ready just in case the next buyer is a jerk.  Turned out he was a nice guy that gave me a toy to tinker with and get working.  👍🏻

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to deal with the OP as a buyer, too many issues, It's just a piece of audio gear.

I would add another irritating detail, the seller indicating that they have the original box and packing but will only allow local pickup and refuse to ship the item.

12inch45rpm-sounds like you have done much buying and selling online. You think all the risk is on the buyer which is not true. The buyer can be just as corrupt as a seller and PayPal doesn’t help the seller. For example: I have had people try this unsuccessfully against my sales but other sellers got screwed and that’s caused by a seller shipping a perfectly good piece to the buyer and the buyer claims it’s faulty and sends back to the seller a no -working piece that the buyer previously owned. Every sale I do I mark the item somewhere or right down the serial # and if they pursue sending back the item, I tell them that I will only accept the unit that matches the serial # or the markings. Both times they tried this to me, they decided not to send it back. Another scam is the buyer claiming they never received the piece when I always pay for signature required and I know before they claim this scam that they already received it.
paypal almost always protects the buyer. 1 more thing, if I ship overseas, I make the buyer use PayPal with friends and family payment.im not risking loss of an item in customs or transferring from 1 shipper to another.
All of these things are discussed before finishing the transaction, and if you don’t want to do business with me, that’s ok, because I might not want to do business with you too

I disagree with all of it, if you don’t like the price, the description, trade or no trade don’t buy it.  I want the last 5 minutes back for even reading or replying to the original post.

So many rules! Overpriced is often subjective. No trades has got to be a personal preference. Some might like it. Price is firm is sort of a silly objection. You don’t like the asking price? Move on. And who says you can’t make an offer on a “firm price” listed item? Don’t talk about flaws? Maybe there are none. Gimmicky price to one could just be someone having a bit of fun. However, what dollar increments are acceptable? $20? $50? 
Basically, trust your instincts - if you get a bad feeling move on. I have bought and sold on audiogon but if I’ve ever had any reservation about a person I am considering doing business with, I just don’t. 

Maybe a repeat of someone else’s comments, but... I’ve found... that it makes no difference how the ad is worded... you really must establish a working / trusting relationship with the seller or buyer via phone discussions. If you do so, the risk is greatly reduced that you will be scammed. As someone said above - "common sense" is the key... as well as... their feedback / reviews, on here and other forums.

No offense to the OP but for a person with only two transactions on Audiogon he posts as though his wisdom is the fruit of many.

I hate it when the seller posts a stock photo of the item...and no photo of the actual item.  That is just ridiculous.

I agree with Grannyring. 

 I'm usually not open to trades however,  if someone has an item that is interesting sure why not. Lots of audiophiles like to trade without shelling out cash or much of it. Of course feedback is important.  

I did a trade once, never again.  Got burned on a Dynavecter MC  Cartridge.  I took it in trade plus cash for an amp I sold.  When I went to install the cartridge a couple of months later, I found the suspension had completely collapsed and the cantilever was cocked to the left a bit.  I had looked at it when I first got it but never took it off the mounting plate.   So now it is $$$ only.  

Funny how much I disagree with the OP. Trades or partial trades are fine and can be fun. I have done it many times. Firm price is often linked to an item already offered at a great price so the seller is putting their best foot forward from the start. Astute or seasoned buyers know when a firm price listing is a bargain or priced right. The seller may be well experienced and wants a quick sale on a piece with some demand. I have been there and done that. Experienced buyers know what’s up and buy making for a very simple transaction. Very nice. 

A seller can use enthusiastic language if that is how they really feel. I have no issues with passion and descriptiveness. Many personalities out there and go ahead and be yourself. All good.

Been selling and buying here for decades with a gaggle of feedback and experiences on the Gon. No reason to focus disproportionally on some personality or style nuance of a seller that has little to no bearing on the piece up for sale. Look at the feedback and accept the fact that we are all different in style.

I think a buyer that provides such an extensive list of red flags is almost guaranteed to be a difficult person to work with. The gall of a seller to stand firm on their price! Please give an example a non-gimmicky price.

We all started with zero feedback.  If you're fortunate the deal will complete with satisfaction on both sides.  But what if a buyer wins an auction then doesn't pay, or is slow to pay?  Or, the buyer is unreasonably demanding and wants a refund for a minor cosmetic defect which was fully disclosed in the description?  This can happen with any sale and any buyer.  But at least if there's feedback you can make a more informed decision about dealing with that buyer.   

What about selling? I’m selling an amp now and the best offer I have is from a person who has no feedback. What are the possible pitfalls?

If someone with perfect extensive feedback is offering an item I want at a great price in great condition and the price is firm...

Thanks for making sure we all know how to sell things.  According to you.