Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC
@arafiq -I purchased the 005 and had the same concerns you did about 3rd row vs 1st; a bit smoother, and more analog, too revealing or unforgiving (and I don't have DSD albums). In my system (ARC, ProAc, Cambridge CXC and Aurender server) the differences between the 005 and the Holo May house sound are subtle and to my ears more pleasing-the articulation, fullness and staging are "all that". If you purchase from Shenzhenaudio you also have a 30 day return window.
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@arafig The May and 005 are more similar than different. Both have excellent 3-d palpalpability. The 005 is more like the sixth row. The May is less detailed but has a blacker background. I did not think the DSD mode was particularly better than the NOS mode in DSD. It had different sound. DSD is similar to pcm in the 005 but arguably may have a touch more solid texture. The 005 too my easr hhas elevated all sample rates to DSD sound as p÷rceived a few years ago. |
Hi there. I hope it doesn’t look like the Musetec owners are piling on.😉 The Musetec uses what is sometimes call a Delta-Sigma chip, the ESS9038PRO, in fact two of them. Such a chip converts all incoming data to a DSD like format making its response to DSD files a perfectly natural function. They sound great. R2R DACs don’t do that and some of them simply don’t respond to DSD at all. Schiit, for ex. That’s why the Holo DACs have a separate function. Beekhuyzen in his video review of the May says its DSD conversion is a bit less successful than its PCM conversion. I would add only that I see the Musetec as a truth machine. It will not hide the poor SQ of poor recordings. As I read what the Holo DACs do, it seems that they will round off the harsh edges of lesser recordings. That means to me that they may not reveal all the glory of great recordings. Which you prefer is a matter of taste, and no one can substitute their judgment on that for your own. |
Since getting 005 just over a year ago, I've made number of changes in system, not because 005 injection of some unwanted coloration, rather solely increasing resolving capabilities of entire system. And this to system that's long been pretty damn revealing.
With recent boutique tube insertion, burn in nearing completion, and subsequent resolution increases, I'm at point where I can make some conclusions in regard to 005.
There are components that commit sins of omission, others sins of commission. Sins of omission easy to achieve, less than maximal resolution may hide unheard sins of commission. On the other hand, sins of commission often committed, difficult thing here is determining which component causing it.
Of course one issue with determining sins of omission is, how do we know we're suffering this if we have never heard the unheard. So, this is inherent problem with my nearly final conclusions in regard to 005. I can only say I've heard many other systems in nearing thirty years building systems/audiophile. I've heard best of best at shows, admittedly not best conditions, also many nice systems at other's homes.
Point of above, I've heard sins of commission and omission over long term. So, conclusion I'm coming to in regard to 005. This is one of those rare components that suffers no known sin of omission, this thing uncovers much previously unheard information, I presume 005 at or near SOTA here. And what about sins of commission, this I had been less sure of up to now. While resolving capabilities never in doubt, I had bit of doubt in regard to timbre specifically. I detected a bit of what I'd call whitewashing, lack of color with 005, sense of performers in room, just lacking flesh and blood presence. With recent boutique tubes this lack of color nearly totally gone, flesh and blood performers in room, reach out and touch palpability, And so, try as I might, have not been able to find sins of omission or commission with 005, quite an achievement in my book.
It will be up to others to provide more context with 005, therefore, direct comparisons with other SOTA dacs. We already have that with favorable comparisons to Holo May and Mola Mola Tambaqui. While only anecdotal, it is what it is. Until more come along we only have this. As for me, I have no intention to provide that context as my pleasure with 005 instigates no motivation for this. At this point, all my near term efforts will be on analog side, my analog far behind digital.
In conclusion, while my experience totally positive with 005, may not be dac for everyone, in wrong system I could see how one could perceive it as analytical, 005 doesn't hide the warts. I can see it overwhelming one's senses with sheer resolving powers, but perception as analytical in long run. I can only say, one has problems elsewhere if this perception of 005 held, 005 capable of high resolution with natural, true to life texture and color. |
Thank you for the valuable input! I have thought long and hard (for about 20 minutes, which is my upper limit nowadays it seems :)) about it and based on what I'm hearing it will be hard to justify spending an extra $2k+ on Holo Audio May. I like the fact that Shenezen Audio provides a 30-day return policy. So not much to lose if I don't ed up liking it. I'm going to purchase a 005 next month. I'm assuming they accept Paypal.
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I agree with you that the 005 is probably at or near sota. In terms of comparing current sota to live music, I think we have a long way to go. On a 10 point scale, I suspect we are at a 5. There’s something about live music that doesn’t even let you apply sustained audiophile analysis. For me it is like the sound is entering your brain from a different door. Many times I have closed my eyes during a live concert and asked myself how is this different from the best reproduced music I have heard. I just don’t have a complete answer, but it is different and usually better (not always) is many ways, most of which I don’t even think I could articulate. |
@arafiq -"Also, since I'm using a tube integrated amp anyways (Audio Hungary Qualiton a20i), I think the 005 will provide the perfect yin for my yang :)" I have a tube based system and you are spot-on. |
@arafiq We had a DAC in common in the past, which we both liked. The 005 is a different animal. Incredible sound, it just keeps sounding better with more hours. I must be around 200 now. Give it a much burn-in as possible in your 30-day trial. I noticed it was a great DAC at under 100 hours but it does sound even better now, especially the bass. |
After 005’s arrival, first day I just checked it works properly. Yesterday I made some power cords and interconnects to put 005 in my system and make one empty inlet in my Stella P3 regenerator. Partly because its predecessor was ADI-2 pro whose audio io is phone jack, it took some time and labor. I had to rearrange gears and cables. It took some time to make it sound and some aspects of the setup are changed. One minor trouble was that I once failed to update 005’s firmware. Pushing the flash erase button makes the unit not recognized as an USB audio device. After the firmware rewritten it is detected by computers again. But according to Jinbo, 005 is delievered with the latest firmware already so update is needless! So I had some hours of listening session today and I’d like to say shortly. Its details and soundstage is great. It renders depth and layers and fills the whole space behind speakers even at quite low volume. Microdetail is superb, as many said you’ll very frequently notice what you haven’t heard yet in your familiar tracks. Dynamic constrast is also great, I can turn down the voulme further than I used to with ADI-2. Sound color is very composed, doesn’t glitter excessively. Texture is not silky, in analogy sometimes it reminds me very high quality linen fabric. Sometimes it felt coarse, but after several hours it began to be more liquid I think. Is its sound accurate? I’m not sure yet, but I think its sound is of very high caliber and taste. Some glitches, sometimes DoP does not work and it makes very loud pop. I coundn’t find the right routine to make it sure to work yet. (It’s partly because I use digital volume with my old mac mini and Audirvana. DSD works better with 005’s internal volume while pcm is better with Audirvana’s noise shaped volume. So switching between DSD/pcm is quite complex and some danger there. Right now I’m attenuating about -20db with 10k resister divider and further -6~-20db with digital volume. A passive attenuator might work in my case.) Another glitch is that some tracks pop with DPLL level 1, it is not consistant and the same track is sometimes ok and sometimes it pops, I don’t understand why... So it will be a long way to put everything right, but I think it’s promising. |
Popping on DPLL due to some issue in your network, try 2 and up, if nothing here for sure network issue. Coarsness will go away in time. System willing, 005 extreme resolving capabilities will provide inherent sound staging and imaging abilities giving illusion of performers in room. Even without the refinement that comes later, and can be added to one's system, this dac extremely engaging. I've never been able to play this dac while multi tasking, even at low volumes attracts my attention. |
I use windows and JRiver and am neither an expert on Macs nor Audirvana, and if this doesn’t help I’ll inquire at the thread at head-fi where there are users of both. Or you can. First I would suggest to @gracky that he set the DPLL a bit higher so there is no popping, and then forget about it for a while. The ability to lock on using a narrow setting, like DPLL=1, is dependent upon the digital signal fed to the DAC. I can’t. It is not a number to obsess over. Most users, I think, just drop in the DAC where their old one was and it works right away like the old one. Windows users just have a new driver to install. Your own installation seem a bit more complicated. Have you used the DAC with your CD player using spdif or optical? I don’t understand the need for attenuation. Digital volume control will cost you SQ. Don’t you run the analog through your preamp? If I understand Audirvana correctly it does not support DSD in native format. Rather it converts the DSD files into PCM resulting in a DoP file. When that conversion is done in the computer, the DAC should just see PCM. Does it? It may recognize it as DoP but you should not have to do anything. That’s how it was on my 004 which did not have the internal DoP function. I used to use an Oppo as a DLNA server and it did not support native DSD digital output. DSD was seen automatically by the DAC as DoP files. No intervention on my part. [The function in the 005 DAC does the conversion there. I have never understood why it’s needed or made available.] IMO if you have a substantial collection of DSD files, as from ripping SACDs or from downloads as I do, you might want to send them to the DAC in native format, rather than PCM or DoP, for with one less conversion the results are stunning. JRiver will do that as will the free program foobar2000. @jc4659, when you get your DAC you’ll find plenty of support over at the head-fi thread where many difficulties are resolved. As I wrote, Mac and Audirvana are in use by some of 005 owners participating there. Finally I would say to @gracky that with break-in the linen texture will turn to silk. Instruments will sound more liquid and have more body. How fine the silk will depend on the digital signal fed to the DAC, and what comes after (as sns is finding). I’m talking here about a very high level of refinement. The DAC continues to surprise. |
I think track pops have reduced by adding ground connection to my mac mini which was lost when its power was changed to an LFP battery (formerly used with ADI2 pro). Not sure if they vanished completely but after that pops didn’t bother me. Amanero is more delicate than other USB interfaces?
Re DoP, I think 004 didn’t have an option to turn off DoP, while 005 has. DoP glitches continue, but I think turning off and on DoP function again solve it in most cases. Another glitch with DoP/Audrivana is it produces a loud pop (quite high fq, while the not working DoP pop is low) in only right channel when playing DSD file is stopped and Audirvana loses its grab of the audio device. I think these glitches with DoP due to Amanero, maybe that is why it is not so commercially popular in spite of its reputation of great sound? Regarding 005’s tone and texture, IMO being not silky is by no way its shortcoming. Its sound is completely opposite to ostensibility or intended splendor in spite that it is extremely detailed. I think this is the most interesting point in 005’s performence, but its tone is changing (so I don’t worry about its coarseness much) and it’s too early to be determined about its tone. |
I think I found the condition of DoP glitch, setting Audirvana volume option to ’software only’ seems to turn the DoP mode of 005 off. Changing volume control method between pcm and dsd requires some care. PS/Edited: I tried again but I couldn't reproduce it! My applogize for confusions. @jc4659 Would you try yourself and report your result with Audirvana volume options and DoP when 005 arrives? |
In Audirvana there is a "Native DSD Streaming Method" setting. You can choose from the following 3 choices (in my set up): 1) None: convert to PCM, 2) DSD over PCM 1.0, 3) DSD over PCM 1.1 What do you have that set to? If you have chosen "None: convert to PCM" then you are asked "DSD convert to PCM with boost of" and your choices are 0dB to +6dB in 1dB increments. If you chose either of the other two DoP settings then the volume boost is not an option. Under the Upsampling category, what do you have the "Safe volume reduction before DSD upsampling" set to? Choices are None thru -6dB in 1dB increments. Under the Audio Volume category, I chose "No leveling" and software volume control turned to "Off" |
In my setup I don’t have DoP 1.1 so I choose DoP 1.0 (my audirvana is old 1.5.x and my mac for audio is an old mini 09 running snow leopard). I upsample pcm only by 2^x factors. (My audirvana seems to recognize the dac’s max sample rate as 768k, I don’t know why, maybe because the former dac’s max was 768k? So I use the custom upsample rates option.) When I used ADI-2 pro I prefered converting to pcm and using audirvana(izotope)’s software volume than feeding dsd to dac via DoP (I think that was because ADI-2 pro itself converted DSD to pcm internally). And at that time I prefered 0db boost and turning up the main volume. But that’s another story... I'll wait for your impression and operation result, thank you! @bill_k You’re right. The problem comes from that I prefer izotope’s noise shaped volume over 005’s internal volume for pcm, while I prefer 005’s native dsd (DoP for mac) playing over converting to pcm regarding dsd. Analog volume control might be the solution... |
I received my Musetec DA-005 today less than 2 weeks from ordering and installation was straightforward. I changed my Audirvana settings to straight PCM with no upsampling and listened via usb from a MacBook Pro running Audirvana Plus and optical from a Meridian CD player. Obviously the new DAC has a ways to go but I am hearing more precise localization of instruments, wider soundstage, more realistic sounding - less hifi, great bottom end, yet still some fuzziness in the upper frequencies which was expected in the first few hours of burn in. I suspect this DAC will really open up when fully burned in. In many ways it already exceeds my expectations. I look forward to playing around with the settings. |
I bet the 005 is sound sublime now that you must have put more hours on it. I presume the common DAC that you're referring to is the Audio Mirror Tubadour III, right? Well, my reference DAC as of now, believe it or not, is the Luxman DA-06. This DAC has proved to be quite a bit better than the AMT and a few other sub-2K dacs that I have tried in the last 18 months. I can't believe this is an 8 year-old design! However, your impressions of the 005 are super helpful. I know you have tried a bunch of DACs in the past, so the high praise from you is duly noted. I am going to order the 005 next month. If it proves to be better than the Luxman, I will keep it. Otherwise, I will avail the 30 day return policy. The other contenders on my list include Denafrips Terminator 2 and Holo Audio May. I've always had an affinity for the R2R sound. I wish there was a way to audition them without having to buy them first, but that's simply not possible nowadays. |
@arafiq I had a few hours on the previous top of the line Luxman CD/SACD/DAC player. The new one is $16K and one I heard on an all Luxman stack was around $8K. Since that all Luxman stack sounded so good I was considering the DA-06 DAC when I was looking at the AMT. The 005 is not overly warm, less so than the AMT and the Gustard X26 Pro I have owned. An interesting effect of the 005 on my system is that I am listening to music that I in the past I was not all that crazy about. I am finding I like a lot music that I may have passed over in the past. I am going to be able to listen to the 005 with a Class A (tube like) KRELL XD amp in a few weeks. That likely will be great with my RAAL SR1a headphones, the intended purpose. The AMT was very good with the KRELL K-300i integrated and the RAAL SR1a, though a bit warmer than my ideal preference. The 005 should just be right. BTW - did you read the thread comparing the Halo May KTE and the 005. One of the best reviews I have read. |
005 listening update- It's been 3 weeks since receiving my 005 DAC. For the first 2 weeks I had it on 24x7 to burn-in because I wanted to get a good sense of what this DAC would sound like, within the 30 day return window. By the second week, the satisfaction I derived listening to music through it exceeded the Holo Spring KTE DAC I replaced. The SQ of the 005 is neutral and revealing, without sounding harsh. Soundstage, space between instruments, placement within the recording are all qualities I want when listening, mostly to jazz. The other night, I played the Stones' "Exile on Main Street" and really noticed the sound smear that's integral to the album's production. One thing I was concerned about, and this was based on my earlier experiences with ES9038 pro chips, was digital glare in the upper frequencies. That's not an issue for me, even though the 005's ability to play upper sound frequencies exceeds what my R2R DAC was able to do. I'm very pleased with this DAC. Tomorrow I'm scheduled to receive a Pro-Ject CD Box R2S T transport. I'm excited by what I expect to hear. Thanks again to everyone who has been sharing the listening experiences, and extensive knowledge about DAC topology. I've learned a lot. David |
Continuing estimations of 005 flavor. Coming to end of burn in of Psvane Acme 300B, Linlai Elite 101D in Statement pre. And I've long heard Shunguang Black Treasure 300B, Psvane WE and Linlai Mesh plate 101 in pre, and finally my Coincident 845 and modded Prima Luna Dialogue Four. All these amps and configurations of tubes with 005.
And now, experimenting with Takman carbon film resistors and Audio Note Seiryu coupling caps vs. carbon comps and metal films in Statement pre. Also added Texas Component TX2575 resistors and Duelund Silver Bypass in 300B, and same in modded Klipschorn crossovers previously.
So, through all these changes, 005 clearly exposed each and every change, resolving capabilities not in question. Flavor of each and every change has also been exposed, I've been in near analytical territory to what at this very moment may be slightly skewed to warmth side of scale. With 005 it appears I can flavor my system without touching the 005. What this points to is 005 can be considered reference piece, a truly neutral component. Up until latest changes with the Takman carbon resistors I'd never heard the 005 move toward warm side, considered it inherently neutral to analytical voiced.
One thing that never changes with 005 in my system is this highly involving sense of live performers in room. Amazing thing is never having sense of annoyance during burn in of all of these various components, I suffered listening fatigue a few times, but only after minimum four hours in.
After a little over a year with this dac, and being very attentive to other's impressions, still waiting to hear a single criticism. I wonder how long this can remain the case?
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@sns -"After a little over a year with this dac, and being very attentive to other's impressions, still waiting to hear a single criticism. I wonder how long this can remain the case?" My Polish grandmother often said, "Don't call the wolf to the door." LOL With that said, it's very hard to find fault with the 005. If there is a criticism, down the road, perhaps it's build quality, with parts failing or falling off. Though that is hard to imagine. Of course, this being A'gon, someone will complain that while it sounds like a DAC 3 or 4x its price, it doesn't sound like a DAC 5 or 6x its price. One more thing-you appear handy with upgrades and mods-impressive. David
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In this $3k price range, seems like folks are very happy with the Musetec, the Sonnet Morpheus (i2s) and the latest edition of the Holo Spring (which is v3 I believe). I’ve only heard the Sonnet. Based on listener impressions, seems like the Musetec is on the clean/resolute/detailed end, the Holo is on the organic end, and the Sonnet splits the difference. When I first read about Musetec, I was keen to try it out of curiosity but I was pretty certain I’d send it back. So ultimately didn’t see the point (I really love my current DAC and I’ve compared it to many other things). This is a great time to be in the DAC market. Lots of wonderful choices out there. At one point I wanted to try everything, but the saner thing might be to find something you like at whatever price point makes sense to you, and then simply enjoy the music.
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That 005 wouldn't compare favorably with dac at whatever price is what I'm waiting to see. I'd honestly like to understand what it's deficiency or deficiencies may be, I'd likely be interested in purchasing dac that outperforms it.
Having said that, I believe this dac not best for everyone. Per metaldetektor, there are dacs with flavoring others may prefer. Still, I'm really having a really hard time describing this dac as lacking warmth, it just may more easily found with inherently more forgiving, intentionally warmer dacs. I'd suggest that would be dac with less resolving capabilities. Or could be one with equally high resolving capability, but rounder, more prominent bass or rolled off highs.
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@wharfy I spent most of today listening to my analog rig. I've had enough of the: some DACs sound like analog. Truth is a really good analog rig does NOT sound like analog. It sounds, as does a good digital rig, like the instruments it's supposed to sound like. When a DAC is called "analog sounding" it is, in reality, a coloration. People are free to like it, or not. Sorry you can't get the I2S pin-out configuration for the Pro-ject. I think it's outrageous that they don't give it to you, unless it is something other than a true I2S out.. @jc4659 @metaldetektor |
@melm I owned the Sonnet and I wrote about it here. You responded. You were riled up about the Stereophile review, because conspiracy, etc. Someone here prefers the Musetec to an outdated Holo Spring, and a guy who makes cables and listens with headphones preferred the Musetec to the Mola Mola Tambaqui, a DAC that requires thoughtful system matching. I'm happy to write about your Musetec vs. the various 10k DACs I've owned/home-auditioned. Send it to me, we'll split shipping costs, and I'll write about it here. I'd love to find a reasonably priced DAC that is as good as you say it is.
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I figured out why the CD player digital output shows up as 96kHz on the musetec. The digital output is running through a W4S Remedy reclocker which outputs the signal at 96kHz. When it is removed and the optical output is directly connected to the Musetec it shows the correct sampling rate as 44kHz. After the DA-005 stabilizes sonically I will listen with and without the W4S reclocker to see which way I prefer the sound.
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@metaldetektor You can get the 005 on a 30 day or 45-day trial period from Shenzhenaudio or Apos L.K.S Audio MH-DA005 ES9038 Pro x 2 DAC Coaxial OPT AES EBU Flagship (shenzhenaudio.com) Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 ES9038 Pro x2 DAC – Apos Audio Shipping back to China with Shenzhenaudio is about $125 USPS. Which I did with another DAC. Apos maybe in the USA.
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Thank you for your offer to review my DAC, but I would decline. If you want to evaluate the DAC you'll have to buy one like everyone else. As yyzsantabarbara comments it comes with a 30 day return privilege. Who knows, that may cost you less than the round trip of mine. Yes, the gentleman who rated the Musetec above the Mola-Mola Tambaqui makes cables, but he also makes the respected Eno Ethernet Filters. He is quite knowledgeable when it comes to a DAC's place in a system. Now I remember my comment about the Sonnet; actually it was not about the Sonnet. My point was simply about the value of an accommodation purchase by the Stereophile reviewer and the A+ category there. IMO, not much value. So I looked at the Sonnet. Seems you "owned" it for less than a month. Really? Not much good hardware there IMO. More expensive than the Holo Spring 3, but the Spring shows a far better insides than the Sonnet. As between the two I would choose the Spring. That is explained by its European manufacture; they simply can't do it. And, of course nothing inside approaches the Musetec. |
I don't post online much. I'm adding a data point for those considering the Musetec 005 DAC. I have been using a May Holo KTE DAC for 5 months and ordered the Musetec 005 DAC thru Shenzhen Audio based on the enthusiasm around. The unit arrived 12/6, was burned in continuously for a week and after 3 days evaluation, I decided to return it. It's a personal choice, and I know people will ask why? what's the difference? what I like and don't like, etc... I just feel like the May Holo connects me with the music better. I'm not good at dissecting what I hear in words, so I'll leave it at that. That's not the reason for my post. When I emailed Shenzhen Audio to request for return authorization, this is the reply I received after 2 days: "Yeah, you can return it back to us, friend. You should know that 1. The returned shipping cost and duties(if have) should be covered by you 2. We might charge 10% restocking fee if the usage time beyond 7days, and 20% restocking fee if the usage time beyond 15days but less 30days! 3. Be sure it's in good condition with all the accessories included, no damage, no lost, or we might charge extra 50% damage fee, and the cost of accessories will be deducted if lost. 4. Shipping address: Consignee: Cloris Guo Telnumber: 0086-17512019171 Address: Longguang Jiuzuan 5A- 2608, Longteng Rd, Minzhi St., Longhua District, Shenzhen, Guangdong, China, 518131 ..." The "10% restocking fee for 7 days of usage, and 20% after 15 days" is not expected, and Cloris confirmed multiple emails the 30 day no reason return policy on their website states "....we can arrange a partial refund...." means that. I'm just passing on the data and will not post any more.
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Wow! Thank you for sharing the information @pt999 I was ready to pull the trigger on the 005. The plan was do compare it to my Luxman and return if it didn’t cut the mustard. Surprised no one else bothered to mention this important fact. |
I respect the fact that pt999 might prefer the May over the Musetec and would be willing to pay the difference. One cannot argue taste. In one of my recent posts I have said the same. By the way, IMO it needs more than a week of break-in due to some very special capacitors in the analog section. However, about your purchase and return. Sorry to hear of your dilemma. To my knowledge this is the first reported return of a Musetec. I have never bought from Shenzhen. They seem to have been in business for a long time; they seem to do a lot of business. Up until now we have only heard positive things about them like honoring Black Friday prices beyond the sale dates and pretty reasonable shipping times. Their "30 Days No Reason Return" policy reads as follows: "After returning the product to the address provided by our customer service team, we can send you a new item free of charge (we will reimburse you the return shipping cost), or you can choose to receive a full refund. Please contact us for Return Material Authorization within 30 days of the order being received." It is pretty simple and pretty clear. If they don’t honor that policy TO THE LETTER, then that’s what credit card charge-backs are for. Communicate with your credit card bank. Just make sure that you have not already paid your credit card bill for that item until after you challenge the charge and deduct it from your payment. With a 30 day return period that should be easy to do. All of this seem pretty straight forward and, personally, I would have no problem ordering from them. I have learned to deal very effectively with situations like that. But I can understand if others would avoid. Finally I would say to pt999 that if Shenzhen persists in these charges you might want to report this to the FTC, and tell Shenzhen you plan to do so. The FTC takes reports like this on-line. |
I've never considered return policies from overseas sellers as most efficient way to audition equipment. Between shipping, possible custom fees, time constraints, restocking fees, always sold my audition equipment.
No surprising someone finds 005 dac not for them, no dac is for everyone. 005, assuming one's systerm capable of exposing it's resolving capabilities would never be less than engaging, however, its not a flavored component. Some will perceive that as analytical, not soul stirring. There are many recipes available in getting to soul stirring systems, 005 may not be right ingredient for all recipes.
pt99 experience is the one criticism I presumed would arise at some point. The recurring thought I have is the person considering tube dac or R2R dac for their reported flavorings will be those most likely to not like 005.
Some want digital to sound like vinyl, a futile effort in my opinion. I do accept digital can be more or less forgiving, but analog, no. I have pretty nice analog setup, and grew up listening exclusively to analog so I think I have pretty good idea of what analog sounds like. For me, digital doesn't have the TIMING of analog, analog has a sense of relaxation, ease I've never heard from digital. Highly resolving dacs only accentuate this difference in systems not optimized for digital. The same dac that sounds analog like in one system may sound harsh, analytical in another. 005 requires every single aspect of system to be optimized for digital in order to show it's full capabilities. One shouldn't expect it to sound just like vinyl, for some thats no go, reason they don't care for any digital. As for sense of actual performers in room, this is reachable for digital, and 005 in particular. For me vinyl is romantic, warm and fuzzy feelings, 005 digital totally engaging, exciting, both satisfying in own way.
From my perspective, 005 is nearly last piece to put in already digital optimized system. Streaming needs to have top notch network, usb renderers, cabling, etc. home AC cleaned up, no grounds issue, room treatments, and of course sympathetic amp, pre, speakers, top notch transport for cds. If 005 purchased prior to full system optimization very likely one will be working on rest of system to obtain full capabilities of 005 or selling unit.
In this, I don't think 005 different from any highly resolving piece, it will show the warts. One has to pay steep cost to get both highest resolution and soulful presentation, all the t's must be crossed, i's dotted.
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I just came across this article regarding Rick Schultz modding the 004. If Rick was involved it must have got his respect. Rick was the CEO of Virtual Dynamics a company that made some fantastic cables. He made a one off XLR IC for me many years ago which I still use and haven't bettered. Does anyone know where Rick is now? Here's the article:
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For what it's worth, the text of the 30 Day No Questions Return Policy as posted on the Shenzen Audio web page currently reads as follows. "30 Days No Reason Return If you are not satisfied with your purchase and the product is still in brand new condition, we can arrange a partial refund, which will cover the price of the item minus the shipping fees. You will be responsible for paying the return shipping fees. |
Earlier I wrote that I discovered the 004 as a result of Ric’s recommendation of the unmodified 004 on another forum He then began to do mods to the 004, However, I think because of its innate quality, his 004 modification was, by far, his cheapest mod. There was not much he could think to do to it. It was about $500, far less than any other in-person mod to a DAC that I know of. A used 004 is about the best deal I can think of in this space. |
My issue was with the Gustard X26 Pro DAC which was having some occasional popping sound when run direct to amp. Now I always use a preamp which eliminated the problem, but I wanted this issue fixed in the event I sold the DAC. I think I contacted Shenzhenaudio after 30 days. Shenzhenaudio told me to send in the DAC (at my cost) and they shipped out a replacement Gustard X26 Pro which I got in about 5 days. I sent the original Gustard back to China by USPS for $125; USPS did everything, including customs. So, I was happy with the outcome. I was not going to bother with arguing about return shipping cost. since I thought it was a negligible amount for a replacement DAC. |
@melm Life is too short for online arguments with strangers. If I was rude, I apologize. I gave you push-back in this thread because I think it can be misleading to newcomers. While it's well and good to be enthusiastic about gear that you own -- without that, sites like this wouldn't exist -- readers need to take DAC impressions with a heavy pinch of salt. My real reference is live music (ideally unamplified), but I've owned/borrowed a lot of expensive DACs in my quest to find the right fit for me. I'm not saying my opinion is more correct than anybody else's -- I'd say it's of equally middling value -- but my experience makes me very skeptical of over-the-moon DAC descriptions. I've loved and hated the same DAC, based on which system it was in. I was pushing back in the hopes of minimizing situations like the one described by @pt999, by injecting some hopefully reasonable skepticism into this thread. Shenzhen Audio's actual return policy is quite different from their stated return policy, based on that report. Pretty shady stuff. But even if they honored their stated policy, it wouldn't be cheap to ship the Musetec back to China. It's significantly heavier than the DAC that @yyzsantabarbara sent back (near 30 lbs, if I remember Musetec's confirmation correctly) and presumably he's shipping from the West Coast. Quick calculation on UPS -- it would cost me $650 insured (from East Coast) + whatever the customs are. Plus whatever the restocking/use fees are. And there's not a liquid resale market for Musetec (not yet at least, but maybe if you keep posting about it...). I'm a little curious based on the breathless reviews of the thing, but my personal DAC review experience has taught me to be skeptical. There's a lot of good stuff out there that one can happily live with. At the risk of philosophizing again, it's understandable to want to validate your hifi decision. There are comparatively not many Musetec owners out there, and you want to feel good about the purchase. Are you hearing what I'm hearing? How does it stack up against xyz? And so forth. I bought a DAC I immediately loved, but felt compelled to home demo it against other stuff to verify I wasn't crazy. I wasn't crazy. Ultimately, once all the buying research is done and you have a system you enjoy, best thing is to skip the forums and enjoy the fruits of your labor. I'm trying to follow my own advice. |
I really enjoyed this thread as it is informing my plans on upgrading from my first ever DAC that being a BelCanto DAC2. I have it setup with an optical connection from my BLUESOUND Node 2i. On my consideration list are: Benchmark DAC 3L, a new BelCanto DAC, Topping D90, Holo Audio Spring, Matrix Element X, and now the Musetec 005 I eventually would like to have both a chip and an resistor ladder DAC to enjoy At the minute I am saving up as they can be pricey Agentwja
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Audiogon is a moderated forum. But that’s not enough for you. Now you are officially its policeman, protecting the great unwashed from being bamboozled. If you can find one thing that I wrote here that is untrue or over the top I challenge you to put up or shut up. Fact is that interest in the Musetec here took off after a detailed comparative review from @dbb that is widely admired. I sympathize with @pt999’s plight. But there is definitely a way to handle it. However his is the only return, or even disappointment, I’ve ever heard of and I approach it with some skepticism. No one here or elsewhere told him that the the Musetec is better than the May. I have no idea why he would order one, except to validate his choice of the May. I have no idea what "connects me with the music better" means except "I like it better." Furthermore, if he had read this thread and otherwise done his due diligence he would have known that one week of burn-in is insufficient for this DAC. He sounds like you, taking advantage of all sorts of deals to "borrow" DACs so as to feign expertise. My guess is that’s what you do. Do you even own a DAC? I kind of doubt it. In any event my interest is in Musetec, not in Shenzhen. As for the cost of return, I have calculated $183.10 by Priority Mail International. There can be no duty returning a Chinese item to China. So just more of your BS. It would cost me about the same to return a Yggdrasil after only a 15 day trial. I don’t have to validate anything. This is the second DAC I’ve bought from this maker. I’ve been doing this for a long time. My interest here is simply giving a fine product some exposure. Some here have appreciated that. Many fine products don’t get much exposure in the usual, commercial, places. I think of my Audio Technica Art-9 that never got a commercial review but was exposed right here. It is a great component. Similarly the Supratek pre. There are others. Seems you’ve spent 30 lines telling us you’re done here. Thank you. |
