Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC
I was wondering if the Denafrips DDC GAIA would work via I2S on the Musetec 005. I have great connectivity right now with my Sonore Optical Rendu and the EtherRegen via USB. However, I have a computer that is also going direct into my 005 via Toslink and the GAIA could improve this along with giving me other connectivity options for streaming to my 005 (such as AES and I2S). Though the other connections would not be ROON READY.
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@yyzsantabarbara I can't tell from your link if you can change pin outs on I2S with GAIA. My Singxer SU-6 has this capability via dip switches. |
The search for better SQ never ends, My own guess is that going in through USB on this DAC is as good as it gets. But that’s only a guess and additional data points are always welcome. We’ll be following your progress. As for compatibility, it used to be that devices with an I²S output (mainly from China, like the Singxers) all had dip switches making them adaptable to the non-uniform I²S inputs in the various DACs. There eventually came to be an informal standard IIUC around the PS Audio DACs. But it is not really a standard. And some devices (like the Pro-Ject CD transport) won’t even disclose their pin configuration. As for the GAIA, Denafips says, "Hermes/Gaia DDC shipped after 25th March 2021 is equipped with I²S pinout configuration capability." So you're covered. But be careful if you buy used. Otherwise you’d have to reconfigure your cables. |
I can see possible scenario where I2S could outperform usb with 005 in system. Lets say you have inferior usb out of server, and take top flight I2S reclocker/DDC like Denafrips, I2S may be superior. One has to understand usb outs of many servers NOT optimized, come straight out of noisy motherboards.
Baring inferior usb feeds into 005, I presume optimized usb input on 005 will always outperform any other input. |
The Musetec dac I received a few weeks ago seems to be fully (or close to it} burned in. It sounds great. I am very pleased with the purchase. I have very limited experience with other dacs, so I cannot offer comparisons. However, I can say that it is consistent with what I have read online, here and elsewhere. I would not classify it as warm or cool. It seems very neutral. Lush recordings sound lush. Analytical recordings sound that way. As described in the comparative review, it produces more of a front row perspective, rather than a middle of the room sound. That description was one the reasons I bought the dac, and I like it. Realistically detailed, but not in an analytical way. It is also very dynamic sounding. There is a real jump factor to music that should have that. Overall, very good> I have tried 3 different inputs-usb, aes and coax. I currently own only cheap basic usb and aes cables. The coax cable with bnc and an rca adapter is somewhat better-a Nordost Silver Shadow. My plan is to buy a better cable to use from my Lumin U1 streamer to the Musetec once I have identified the best input to use. From online reading I fully expected that to be usb. However, using the cables I have, usb is the worst of the 3 options with aes very slightly better than coax despite the use of a $40 cable. Lumin suggests that usb and aes will generally be the best options, and that the dac implementation may cause either usb or aes to be preferred. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Will a quality usb cable make all the difference? Or should I try to optimize aes? I sent a message to Jinbo at Musetec about this, but no response yet. Also, as a way to trial cables, has anyone used the Cable Company lending library, or is there a better way to trial cables? |
Nice to hear of your satisfaction with the Musetec. Jinbo is not Paul McGowan. He is just a very small designer/manufacturer. I don't think he gives usage advice, as a dealer might. But if anything goes wrong, or to get it up an working if there's a problem, he will be there. The consensus seems to be that the DAC is optimized for USB and I think it is fair to say that is way most users go. As for USB cable, I use and have recommended AudioQuest Pearl. It is a well made solid core copper and I have gotten good feedback abut it. In any event, it is not expensive and, at least, a good place to start. One of the often overlooked ways to try cable is through Amazon, which has a very liberal return policy. |
My 005 is just about broken in but I'll give it another week before I give a full review. The infuriating part is that there is very little difference between AES/EBU and USB. I say infuriating because I would like to be able to choose one so that I can buy a really expensive cable and be done, but it looks like I'll need two cables. In the meantime I've ordered an Audio GD DI-20HE which is also equipped with an Amanero Board that will give me USB to I2s conversion which should finally put the what's best input to rest. The Audio GD and Singxer SU-6 were both favorably reviewed by Golden Sound with the Singxer coming in at No.1, but I can't resist the massive power supply of the Audio GD. These are exciting times. |
@melm I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that the Amanero board in the 005 converts USB to I2s internally? Because the specs for I2s are much higher. |
"Are you saying that the Amanero board in the 005 converts USB to I2s internally?" Absolutely. That’s what Amanero boards do. I²S is how all DACs communicate internally. I realize this thread is getting very long, but we’ve covered this before. One of the things that distinguishes the Musetec is its advanced power supply for the digital side, The super-capacitors provide battery-like power. For the low voltage needs of the digital side, you can’t do better. And the Musetec clocks have higher specs than the norm. I don’t know what clocks are in the DI-20HE. But the clocks in the Musetec outperform Crystek clocks used in some of the very best DACs, and cost more. These are some of the reasons this DAC is out-performing some very big names. There are those who favor devices that go from ethernet directly to I²S, bypassing USB entirely. It’s arguable whether that’s worthwhile. But a device that goes USB to I²S? I say save your money; it’s already happening. |
I saw your post in the "Emm Labs DV2 versus Tambaqui" thread before it was removed. Go easy on these guys. It’s very hard for them to get away from two of their fundamentals: (1) There is a strong correlation in DACs between price and sound quality, and (2) You can’t build a truly outstanding DAC around a pair of ESS chips. Then there is the "chifi" stuff. This nonsense has been pounded into everyone by the audio press and multiplied in the forums. So do you think they’re going to easily believe that a $3000 Chinese DAC using ESS chips can outperform a $13,000 European DAC based on an FPGA? I don’t think so. |
So there we have it. How predictable. The subtle implication that all these low-IQ, gullible audiophiles who have been brainwashed by the audio press and jingoism don’t know any better. Only a ’select’ few know the truth that all expensive dacs are basically snake oil and anyone who believes otherwise is either ill-informed or simpletons. The messiah complex strikes again! Lol!
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@melm I apologise Man, maybe crossed the line a bit but some of these guys either don't have the resolving power in their system to differentiate DACs or they are so dyed in the wool with their own dogmas that nothing will shift them. Some of them are still holding on to their old DACs for grim death...haha. Anyway yesterday I put all suspicions to rest that The 005 couldn't go up against the big boys or perform excellently in a true reference system. Completely blew my dealer away when he heard it in his $500k reference system, and absolutely trounced his $40k reference DAC. The soundstage is massive at least twice of the other DAC by width and depth. My dealer was hearing things for the first time on his reference recordings. We played mostly Jazz and 60s/70s rock. He loved it so much he asked to borrow it for a week until he could get one. Anyway lots of naysayers out there including my dealer originally. The 005, if ONLY for the money is a game-changer but it's a World Class DAC that could grace any system. Just remember that all the Audio Reviewers get paid or get freebies to review. Happy Listening and thanks again Melm for bringing the 005 to our attention. |
I too was curious about a Denafrips DDC almost a year ago. I would like to share my experience for what it's worth. About a year ago, I briefly owned a Denafrips Hermes DDC (Gais's little brother) and a Terminator Plus DAC. The Plus provided two clock signals to the Hermes via two $26 clock cables and the Hermes provided an I2S signal to the Plus via an $80 HDMI cable. Upstream of the Hermes, I had my USB chain at the time which consisted of the opticalRendu, Uptone ISO Regen, and Innuous Phoenix USB. The oR and ISO Regen had a DC power solution better than Farad Super3 power supplies with upgraded cables. The USB chain was finished off with the excellent Shunyata Alpha USB cable. Side note: someone mentioned The Cable Company's lending library above and I used that service to demo the Alpha USB cable about 2 years ago. It's a service I like to use now and then. At the time, I also owned a Benchmark DAC3 B. For both the Terminator Plus and the DAC3, I preferred the full USB chain without the Hermes clocked by the Plus. I mentioned the cost of the clock and HDMI cables above because I believe they were weak links in the comparison especially when going up against the Shunyata Alpha USB cable which is now retailing for $1500. So this is the tricky part with trying to compare any DAC's USB input to say the same DAC's AES input. The digital cable and everything else up the chain from it matter so it's not even close to being an apples to apples comparison. I also ended up preferring the music from the DAC3 over the Plus. Knowing I was going to sell the Denafrips gear and get some funds, I ordered a new streamer to see if it could beat my USB chain. That's how I arrived to my current streamer the Grimm MU1. And based on my experience with Shunyata digital cables I didn't fool around and bought their top of the line Shunyata Omega AES cable. This streamer and cable is now what I use on the 005 and the Benchmark DAC3 DX. Regarding DAC pricing, I preferred the $2000 DAC to the $6000 DAC so it's not hard for me to believe a $3000 DAC can be better than a much higher priced DAC. After comparing the DAC3 to the Plus, I thought I had to go the Tambaqui level to get a really good improvement but I'm very happy to say the 005 has given me what I wanted at a much lower price point. This last weekend was one of my best listening sessions ever with the Sennheiser IE900 and Benchmark HPA4. I would like to thank yyzsantabarbara for helping me find the 005. I found his experience wit the Benchmark DAC3 mirrored my experience exactly down to selling it at one point and rebuying it. So naturally when he upgraded to the 005, I knew I had to try. Great decision!
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@sirnui I find your experiments extremely interesting. In my limited experience and knowledge of clocks I find a number of issues. I recently tried an audiophile network switch with TXCO clock (marketed as OXCO clock) inferior to router straight out to server. I heard what impressed me as an excessive clocking sound quality in that images too tightly drawn. I've since learned clock incompatibility is real issue, frequency, square wave vs sine wave. Clock cables and cable length also have bearing on sq.
Do I understand you correctly in that you're using AES input on 005 vs USB? Have you tried USB input with 005 in present setup?
I have to say I'm biased against Denafrips gear since trying Hyperion amp a few years ago. Dark and veiled, small sound stage, two dimensional imaging, not even close to my push pull and SET tube amps, or even a Musical Fidelity M2si I was auditioning at same time. I thought anyone voicing component to sound like that was playing voicing games with an entire Denafrips setup. I want my components to sound neutral, I have other means to voice.
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I just wanted to provide an update on my experience with the Musetec DA-005. I am running two inputs into the DAC: one from my CD player being used as a transport and one from my MacBook Pro playing local files using Audirvana and streaming using Qobuz. My CD player is a Meridian 508.24 which has a dying laser but some discs it has had no trouble reading. The digital output is via optical using Lifatec glass fiber and is fed into a Wyred4Sound reclocker. The output from the W4S is coaxial using a DH Labs Silver Sonic bnc cable with RCA adaptors and is fed into Coaxial 1 input of the Musetec. I have tried every configuration possible and with and without the W4S reclocker and I have found the above worked best in my system. Redbook CDs sound silky smooth with no glare and tremendous clarity. The soundstage and placement of instruments is also excellent. I am currently using a MacBook Pro to play digital files and stream using the USB output from the laptop via a Curious USB cable. I have tried using a Uptone IsoRegen but found no significant difference in sound so currently I am running the Curious cable directly into the usb input of the Musetec DAC. The sound is not quite as enjoyable as redbook CDs but I suspect the MacBook Pro is a big limitation here. My next purchase will be a streamer so I may be picking some brains for recommendations and then after that a dedicated transport. The Musetec DAC has been a great addition and may just be the best component in my current system or that I have ever owned. It is not going anywhere. |
@sirnui That is great to hear that you are at a good place with your gear. I can say the same. |
@sns My experience with network switches has been very good. I owned an Innuos PhoenixNet switch and I liked it very much. The improvements I heard were obvious. I demo’ed the Synergistic switch as well but the PhoenixNet had a more relaxed sound. I sold the PhoenixNet recently not because I found something better but because I wanted funds partially to buy the 005 and also because I thought I might get similar performance from a slightly cheaper switch. My current switch is the Paul Pang Quad (still breaking in) and so far it’s sounding good but the true test will come when I connect the streamer straight to the router to compare. In between owning the PhoenixNet and the Quad, I had in the system a $16 D-Link DES 105 switch that was powered by an iFi iPower and grounded to my Shunyata Everest power distributor. This little guy did not embarrass itself. I could tell it was not as refined as the PhoenixNet but I still enjoyed it. It’s definitely the best bang for your buck switch I’ve tried. In all cases an ENO ethernet filter and cable connected the switch to streamer. Yes, I’ve only tried the AES input of the 005. However, even though it’s not optimized for USB, my streamer has the ability to output USB . I still have the ISO Regen, a Cardas Clear USB cable, and a good power supply so I will connect all of this to the streamer and give USB a try this weekend. If this USB solution comes close to my AES solution, then I will have some thinking to do. The Grimm MU1 streamer has some tricks that it does on the AES output such as up-sampling all redbook tracks to 176.4K/192K 24bits so it won’t be a fair fight. This up-sampling in theory allows the DAC to not work as hard (because all DACs up-sample internally) and therefore the DAC should sound better. Less activity is less noise/distortion. I liked the Terminator Plus when I had it. It had an amazing open sound that is unlike anything I’ve experienced. I didn’t keep it because the DAC3 performed better on 70% of the other musical qualities that I listen for. I briefly thought about keeping it but I had to sell it because improving my system elsewhere was much more important than having a secondary DAC. I haven't looked back. |
@sirnui It seems I have pretty unique setup in that I have second ethernet port on my server, therefore: modem>router (powered by over spec. lps) via short run of Audioquest Vodka ethernet>server, via another short run of AQ Vodka>FMC (powered by lps) via second ethernet port of server through another short run AQ Vodka>Opticalrendu via optical cable>005 via AQ Diamond.
Using a network switch only adds more complexity to my chain, requires another AQ Vodka from router to switch, then switch circles back to server. I thought switch would help with network cleaning and superior clocking vs. router, instead it only added complexity. My second ethernet port in server makes all the difference!
Vast majority of streaming setups are single computer where server outputs usb (in your case AES) directly to dac. The only place where network can be improved is upstream of server, the reason you guys like audiophile network servers. With my two computer setup where I have network out of server I can upgrade network DOWNSTREAM of server, this is where my optical comes in, I completely eliminate noise from entire network upstream of server and server produced noise. I stay optical all way into steamer (opticalrendu) where network is further clocked, usb cleaned, usb clocked into the wonderful clocks of 005.
Sound quality with this setup is incredible, far superior to a number of previous network setups. With 005 and recent upgrade to opticalrendu(powered by Uptone JS2, quality of lps important here) substantially better resolving and MOST IMPORTANTLY, 005 has become incredibly relaxed, sense of EASE or illusion of listening to really top flight vinyl setup. This setup has finally put to rest my single last reservation as to 005 sound quality. Up to now, I had considered 005 overall gestalt as somewhat analytical, or at least slightly to analytical side of neutral, it had clearly defined digital signature. I'm now hearing analog sound signature, not really sure I could determine sound as digital if I came to listening session blind to source. |
@sns Your server is in some ways acting like a switch. It sits in-between the router and the streamer and it re-clocks the ethernet packets. And perhaps most importantly, it must be isolating the oR into its own little network. So in other words, the oR won’t be receiving multicast messages, for example, from any other network device outside its own network. So repeating what I said earlier, less activity is less noise/distortion. My PhoenixNet dealer once had a dual switch network and similar to your experience, he found that removing the first switch sounded better. And isn’t it great to know that removing a component does that? It’s a win for the music and we get to put money back into the pocketbook for a change. From your experience and others, the 005 seems to improve as the rest of the system is upgraded. It shows that the 005 is not the weak link. The Benchmark DAC3 shares this trait and it’s a big reason why the DAC3 has been with me nearly since inception. I don’t have optical isolation anymore in my system but that will change in a few weeks when the Ediscreation Fiber Box II will come in. It will sit in-between the router and the switch. If it makes a difference, I will share the results. But before then, I have a QSA Yellow fuse for the 005 coming in a few hours. I’m hoping this fuse will not make an appreciable difference. I don’t like the idea of fuse rolling $700+ fuses. |
@sirnui You're correct in how router is acting. I still have my audiophile switch and want to experiment with replacing router with switch. I presume the switch will be quieter and know it has superior clock, in fact I did hear a bit more detail when adding switch. The issue is while this could work short term, I do need wifi in house, not running exposed ethernet cable through house.
With recent changes I've been able to remove one generic FMC along with it's lps, Uptone usbregen with it's lps and one ethernet cable.
I also have at least 2500 cd rips on NAS, streams virtually indistinguishable from streams. Network upgrades especially benefit streams.
I'd be interested in your results with Ediscreation, unaware of this up to now. If your results positive I may try between router and server. I've been looking for network upgrades upstream of server, this may be just the ticket!
I use Synergistic orange fuse in 005, never heard it without this fuse, thought about upgrade to purple. Hard for me to swallow $700 fuses as well, seems like a lot to spend for possible marginal gains, but who knows? Keep us informed on this as well. |
I placed an order for a silver colored one today with Midwest Audio in Indiana. After reading this thread and the one on Headfi I decided to pull the trigger. I'm currently using the internal DAC card in my Aesthetix Mimas integrated amp. It sounds pretty good, but I was curious or wanted to see how a top of the line separate DAC would perform in my system. |
@sirnui Regarding USB into the 005 from your Grimm you'll probably find that the AES/EBU and USB will be very close. Not so with non-Amanero DACs, AES will be superior. Maybe you will even prefer one for different tracks. USB will be the only choice for Native DSD. My Aurender can convert DSD to DOP and I've found letting the Aurender convert to DOP and then switch on DOP in the 005 brings the best results. That's if you decided to forego USB. I'm very familiar with the Ediscreation and it's a great product but I would really like to know if the ENO has any effect after you install the Edis. Thx. |
@lordmelton I'm really looking forward to this weekend when I get more time to try USB with the 005. I've made so many changes to the system that the music feels unfamiliar (and awesome) but comparing USB versus AES will help me get a certain grasp of what the system is and perhaps where I want to go from here. I can't seem to stop tweaking. When I get the Fiber Box II, I will at some point test the system without the ENO and without the switch and whatever other combo that is of interest to me. |
The QSA Yellow fuse came in today. I bought it from the dealer used and I’m not sure of the level of breakin. What’s certain this first night is that the sound is different than the stock fuse. The Yellow fuse has an arrow on its side and I’ve tried it with the arrow pointing left and then right as one faces the DAC. With the arrow facing left, the sound was a little off and a little more dull than the stock fuse. With the arrow facing right, the music was much livelier and the sound level was louder than stock. This loudness sounded good at times and at other times it made me lower the volume on the amp which is not a good thing. The music sounded more cleaned up and there was definitley more emphasis in the mids. However, the music lost some low end oomph and overall fullness that I enjoyed. I will reserve final jugement until I get more time to listen but on this first night I preferred the stock fuse, then Yellow arrow facing right, then Yellow arrow facing left. The stock fuse has one end painted red and currently I have this red end toward the right. I wonder what’s the original configuration from the factory. YMMV and I expect them to vary because every system is different. This is why I demo. |
Today I tested the USB input versus the AES input of the 005. First I need to share the equipment involved and the setups because that is important. In both the AES setup and the USB setup, the Grimm MU1 is the Roon server and endpoint. I only stream Tidal redbook tracks with the MU1. I use to stream Tidal "Hi-Res" but I found that the up-sampling done by the MU1 lessens the need for "Hi-Res" streaming. AES Setup: (Grimm MU1; Shunyata Omega AES cable into the 005). With this setup, the Grimm up-samples all redbook tracks to 176.4KHz/192Khz 24bit and I can verify the up-sample on the display of the 005. The AES output of the MU1 is advertised to have "ultra low clock jitter". USB Setup: (Grimm MU1; Schitt PYST USB cable > Uptone ISO Regen > Cardas Clear USB cable into the 005; ISO Regen is powered by a DXP-1A5DSC power supply which itself is powered by an iFi Elite power supply which is connected to the Shunyata Everest power distributor with a Shunyata Venom V14 Digital cable). With USB, there is no up-sample and again I can verify this on the display of the 005. Critical listening is done with the Sennheiser IE900 driven by the Benchmark HPA4 headphone amp. The stock fuse was used in the 005. The 005 and the HPA are connected to the Everest via Zavfino Silver Dart Graphene power cables. The same model Zavfino XLRs connect 005 to HPA4. I'm going to get straight to the point regarding the results. The AES Setup wins hands down! Based on my musical preferences, I don't believe I will prefer any track that is not played from the AES output of the MU1. And I have to emphasize this is NOT a knock on the USB input of the 005. I just prefer the AES optimized output of the MU1 and it has convinced me on three highly regarded DACs now that "AES" can be better than "USB" if the right streamer is utilized. The MU1 is one of a kind in what it does so I don't expect anyone to understand exactly what I'm saying and hearing until they try it in their own system. The musical difference: I know it's cliche but with MU1 AES, there is a veil or two that is lifted from the presentation. The details are easier to hear and there is more clarity. There is a sense of better "sound separation" and I can hear sound nuances easier. The music sounded slightly louder in a good way. A component change can cause music to sound louder if it's amplifying perceived noise/distortion and this is not good. But I get the sense the MU1 AES is helping amplify the music itself so it's desired greater loudness. One of the best things I loved to hear with the 005 was the way percussive sounds or stick type hits would present themselves. These types of sounds were crisp and strong and had great texture and pop. Doing this experiment, I realized how much the MU1 AES actually played a role in making this sound. That is to say with the USB setup, this characteristic was lessened. Based on past similar experiments involving the MU1, I knew this was not a fair test for USB and today's experiment just reaffirms why I moved on from my USB optimized chain. I'm not saying USB is bad because it is definitely not but the MU1 AES is just better in my experience.
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@sirnui Goes to show you how unique streaming setups can be. I can see how your usb chain could be improved, but the Grimm seems to be optimized for AES.
So question is would better optimized usb beat AES in your setup? And then, could your AES setup be further optimized in which case it could rise above the optimized usb setup?
I'd like to optimize every possible scenario, but at what cost and never ending chase. We can chase what we don't have or be happy with what we do have. At this point I'm experiencing such fine sound quality from combo of optical and usb not sure I want to do further chasing.
I suppose theoreticals have played large role in my present choices. Hundred percent galvanic isolation of optical and seemingly optimal engineering efforts toward usb in 005 has focused my choices.
Streaming wide open today, so many possibilities! |
@sirnui Well I'm not surprised the Grimm AES/EBU won hands down because you used a $3500 USD AES/EBU cable, but it would probably have won anyway because the USB outputs seem to be only configured for external storage, not properly designed USB signal outputs. I guess this is what "optomised for AES/EBU" means. No Native DSD possible which would have made a good case for USB. • Downsampling of DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 and Don't like the idea of a "Decimation Filter", sounds nasty. However you can play Native DSD over DOP switching on DOP in the 005, as I mentioned in the above post. You should get a better sound for DSD. Happy Trails |
Just goes to show there are many routes to audio nirvana, all depending on what you may have in front of the Musetec Interesting that the earlier LKS MH-DA004 was (and still is, I think) available in two forms. A more expensive one that includes an Amanero USB board, and a less expensive one that includes just a utilitarian USB board. The latter was for those who were happy to save the money for either they already had a Singxer-like device, or were not going to use USB in any event. IIUC the DAC with the Amanero board was by far the greater seller. The Musetec, to date, does not offer the less expensive option though I think if they did the savings would surpass that on the 004. There appears to be a lot of effort to make the USB to I²S conversion in the 005 especially effective, and many of us have found it so. There is one user on the head-fi thread though who also does not use the USB input to the Musetec. He has removed the Amanero board claiming just a bit more SQ. If you are willing to open up the DAC, removing the board is very easy. Slipping it back in, just as easy. Different strokes. |
@sns Yes, I agree the streaming possibilities today are numerous and endless. Endless too is our individual climb up the audio mountain. At certain stops, we may decide the view is too nice and stay put. Other times, we continue the climb up to seek a new view. We all have done both and both are perfect choices for the moment. Right now I’m on that next climb but I plan to stop and enjoy the view once the Fiber Box II arrives and is inserted into the system. I need to "rest" and just enjoy because I’ve been moving up at breakneck speed. Regarding optimization of particular digital input types, I don’t think we can say one type is definitively better than any other type. Based on my own experience, I believe the optimizations that one can do is limitless for any digital input type. We can just pick what we think is best and optimize (endlessly if desired). @lordmelton I would like to describe the same type of test I did almost a year ago to provide another perspective. The DAC under test was my Benchmark DAC3 DX. The AES setup was the MU1 but the AES cable this time was a $56 Grimm TPR cable. The USB setup used an $8K USB solution whose main components were the opticalRendu, ISO Regen, Phoenix USB, and Shunyata Alpha cable. This test would decide if the MU1 would be heading back to the Netherlands or not. As we know, I kept the MU1 and sold most of the USB solution. Of all the musical qualities that I cared for, this AES setup was preferred roughly by 80%. So I still thought the USB setup did some things better. Having decided MU1 AES was my future, I replaced the TPR cable with the Omega cable. I’m going by audio memory here but the MU1/Omega combo then tipped the scales nearly to 100% AES. I had sold most of the USB solution by the time I received the Omega cable so I couldn’t repeat the test. Lesson reaffirmed: digital cables matter greatly. Regarding DOP, the MU1 does support it. I believe I have an album or two that is DSD so I may give DOP a try, if anything, to learn something new about the 005 and the system as a whole. @melm I was aware of what that head-fi user did but I was not aware of how easy it is to remove and re-insert the USB board. Thanks for sharing this info. I’ve replaced the DSP boards on my Kii Three active speakers so removing circuit boards from high end gear would not be new to me. I will remove the USB board from the 005 and have a listen and then report back. I’m expecting to hear a difference because the main premise of removing any piece of circuitry (if it can be done and is not needed) is to not suffer the noise/distortions caused by that circuitry. Side note: If removal is not an option then reducing the activity level of any circuitry should also reduce the noise level. This has been my experience.
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It was a truly difficult decision in buying another DAC. I purchased a Gustard X26 Pro and found such an amazing improvement that I thought, hmm.... what am I missing out on with an even better DAC. I was living in a cocoon I guess as I'm a pretty tech savvy guy, or at least I used to be. Regardless, I ended up purchasing the 005 over the May as I felt I could return it with a minimal rental fee if needed. My ONLY stop gap was this thread. I found the most prevalent people here to be more than evangelists, but rather salesmen. Do some of you get $$$ from Musetec? I post and have questions, but mostly move on to listen to music. I follow forums now to be better informed and try and share info, but found the obsession on some people's parts to be disconcerting. I just found it weird. So, I got the 005 after PM'ing a few folks that seemed to be a little less intense about it... My take, yup, the 005 is the real deal. At least for neophyte me. I started with Logitech streamers, Logitech Transporter, Cambridge 200m, then Gustard X26 Pro and 005. A little stop with my Krell Vanguard DAC... I find my subjective opinion to be that I am getting a lot more detail out of, especially, my red book discs than previously wit the 005. I like the DAC. PM me if you have any questions. However no evangelist here. I apologize, but I found it weird and off putting and almost made me not buy it. |
@btscott No one is getting paid or rewarded here to give their opinions on the 005. It is just such a quality DAC for such a reasonable price, I believe the recommendation becomes contagious. It goes well beyond R2R vs Chip DACs and Western vs Chinese DACs. It's just superb. The only issue here is Musetec doesn't support it in any way, whereas most other Chinese DACs seem to have quite a bit of representation. |
@btscott When it is fully broken in, maybe you can share more details about how you are using it i.e. with a transport, streaming from a laptop or dedicated streamer, etc. Also, which inputs sound best to you? I have shared some of my findings in this thread and still experimenting with different inputs and reclockers. It is truly a great DAC. No relationship with Musetec except as an owner ;) |
There is no doubt the 005 has elicited more posts from me than probably all my other audio components put together. I simply can't find a single error of commission with it, that's unprecedented for source equipment in my experience. I'm still waiting for negative review or report of some deficiency with this dac.
No agendas with me, I purchased through retail dealer, Black Friday sale price. A new much higher price dac is coming into view for me, curiosity as to what sins of omission 005 may be committing is occupying my thoughts. |
Thanks for your forthright appraisal, both of hte Musetec and of this thread. I also thought my $1500 DAC (LKS 004) could not be improved upon THAT much by a $3000 DAC with a similar architecture. I bought the Musetec after a lengthy PM exchange with sns on another board and some research. The DAC came as quite a nice surprise, actually a pleasant shock. For the record, everyone here, AFAIK, has purchased his DAC and no one gets any $$ from Musetec. My only interaction with the maker (and I believe it is through Google translate) is as a customer. When I sent my 004 board in for an update almost 2 years ago and offered to pay, the update was done gratis. We exchanged some very brief pleasantries, mostly about taking care regarding Covid, then a larger factor in China than in the US. I recently sent him a happy Chinese new year email (Year of the Tiger). I’ve always been impressed by the honesty of his operation, especially how the DAC insides and parts are shown and described completely (except for the 8 FETs on the board’s underside). That is VERY different than American and European makers. As for this thread, I started it soon after receiving the DAC, just trying to give it some exposure. I thought that when dbb wrote his comparison with the Holo May this thread was done. But for some reason a couple of new buyers responded here and it grew. As the OP, when there is a new post here it is my email that is notified. I have tried to help with any questions. After reading your post, I went through page 1 (Newest first) of this thread. You couldn’t pay me to read stuff back further. I didn’t see anything out of line. For a long time, I think, most of the DAC complements have come from new buyers like yourself. We’ve even gotten some thanks. Anyway, you did your due diligence and it seemed to come out just fine. |
@btscott Where did you hear about the Gustard X26 Pro? Maybe on A'gon from people like me who were saying how good it was for $1500. I am on Gustard's payroll ($$$). I then moved to my next target, the Mustec 005. I was also evangelizing it because I am also on Mustec's payroll ($$$).
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@yyzsantabarbara if you are truly on their payroll then you better get your boss' name correct: MUSETEC! 😉😁 |
@jc4659 I was wondering why I did not get a bonus this Christmas. Spelin always gets me. |
I believe misperceptions of our intentions is mostly due to relatively low price and country of origin of 005. While I agree with general cost to performance correlations, exceptions do occasionally surface.
Questioning our credibility is to be expected, I simply ask people to judge for themselves. I too am skeptical when I only see positive reviews of any particular product, I purposely seek out negative and neutral reviews to keep things real. Problem is I guess all who have used 005 have nothing bad to say. |
I'm trying to find a good dac that galvanically isolates usb well. Anybody know how well this does without a reclocker/isolator? I'm also curious how this unit compares to a Singxer SDA-6 Pro. I'm going with one of these two, as they're the only two units I'm aware of with some level of usb isolation. I almost purchased a x26 pro, but found out it has virtually 0 isolation. |
@turcoda Hi, The 005 has an Amanero USB board which drastically reduces jitter. Re-clocking is not necessary, in fact it would be detrimental. The 005 weighs 9kg, the Singxer 2.7kg 'nuff said. |
Singxer has primarily been known for its devices that input USB and output I²S. In the earlier days of PC DAC use, many DACs did not have this function at a very high level and this sort of extra component was often used. LKS made a similar independently powered device using an Amanero board. LKS and other makers eventually brought this function into the DAC and the demand for the Singxer device waned. There has been some discussion in this thread about using a Singxer SU-6 in front of the Musetec but it would be redundant, as the Musetec Amanero board does the same thing, and probably far better. Better clocks, better power supply. The Singer SDA-6, though, is a fully functional DAC at about $1300 for its "advanced" version and it looks like a very nice unit at that price. There are many good Chinese DACs now at about that price. My guess, based on its heritage, is that it has a very good USB input. |
@turcoda Per above, 005 usb galvanic isolation is top flight, however, my experience is further isolation via my newly added Sonore Opticalrendu is extremely beneficial. Opticalrendu femto clocks both network input and usb output. Previously used SOTM SMS200 Neo, this was also beneficial.
Equipment above is for 2 computer setup, the Sonore and SOTM both Roon endpoints as well as usb renderers. If you're running server directly out to dac, YMMV. |
