Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC
@debjit_g The silver 005 with the 4 FETs must be the earlier model because this pic on Head Fi is dated 24th Oct 2020 Maybe original 005 was within published spec but they decided to tweak it to improve SQ. I'm not complaining. The black 005 is the same pic as is on Musetec's Website so I guess this is the current incarnation. |
@melm I have no doubt that the 005 will take out the Tambaqui with extreme prejudice. There is no way on earth that the Tambaqui would sound better than the 005 with $10k of cables attached. When are Mola Mola bringing out the clown fish or suckerfish? Maybe if Musetec named it's products after snakes or sharks they would get more press...lol. |
@debjit_g I was just using an expensive laptop. Lots of people wouldn't believe me that I could run Windows Server 2016 on a laptop. With Jplay. Then into Mutec MC-3 + USB reclocker and db Poweamp for ripping. I understand there is a RPI I2s only without USB that's very inexpensive and very good. Now I just push a button and I'm good to go. |
Exactly the same as me, after my Wadia 781i shat the bed. Many years with Jplay but I've had my Aurender N20 since about 6 months now and it truly is a different ball park from computer audio. It is a great match for the 005 and it has a masterclock input which again gives a huge step up in SQ. An N20 plus a 005 costs about the same a Tambaqui, what a deal. Why some people don't get it is beyond me.
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@debjit_g I leave my system fully on 24/7, not playing of course, unless I'm break-in something in. Reason being is that I believe that what damages components more than anything is the constant switching on and off. Maintaining them at a constant temperature is important. |
@sns I have the Aurender N20 which as you can see in the pic has it's own USB solution, which is contained in the box marked Aurender behind the USB output. I don't know what isolation or optimisation has been used but thought has gone into it.
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I am feeding signal only USB to the L.K.S. USB/I2s DDC and I2s over RJ45 to the 005. This sounds better than USB or XLR or HDMI into the 005. It's very natural, detailed and dynamic to name just a few. This is a very strong testament to the 005 because according to Aurender XLR and SPDIF outputs are superior to USB. I'm extremely happy with this setup. The best sound I've ever had in my system and I've still got five SR Purple fuses to fit. All comparisons were done using the SSD of the Aurender N20, not streaming, for repeatable accuracy. |
@sns Yes, It would be nice if Aurender gave us more info about their USB but once I taped over the +positive in the USB cable the sound got a real boost. Of course this will depend on what DAC you are using. However from a technical perspective and I've had a lot of experience with clocks and re-clockers, the Phoenix does look interesting. I have only proven so far that a pristine separate power supply for the USB board can make a tremendous difference. If the onboard USB board in the 005 was supplied independently with a LPS that would make a similar or better difference, I'm sure. I can only imagine what we would get if the so modified 005 was also fed by a Phoenix too. I'm sure it would be incredible. If I can get a Phoenix on demo or at least hear one I'll report back. With it's USB frequency timed 24Mhz clock and top end LPS it's gotta sound good. |
The ABKCO owned Rolling Stones dual layer SACDs were released around 25 years ago and then mostly their whole catalogue (the famous stuff) was released and re-released on single layer SHM SACD in Japan about 15 years ago. The Japanese releases are superior as they made for many other artists including YES, Genesis, Cream, Clapton, Steely Dan and others. There are also the SHM CDs to consider which were re-mastered in Japan around 2009. SHM CDs can sound bright on an unsympathetic system. The reason for this is back in the day it was very difficult to get the maximum info out of CDs. Nowadays even my CDs which I bought in the '80s sound great without any digital alchemy. If you own an Aurender it will unpack an .ISO file to .DSF by itself without any other software necessary. 192 kHz is really wonderful but there is an air about DSD that 192 cannot quite match. However even with '80s "Special Price" and two albums on one CD the reproduction on the Musetec is truly astounding. If I had to forego DSD and Hi-Rez I could still live comfortably. |
I just came across this article regarding Rick Schultz modding the 004. If Rick was involved it must have got his respect. Rick was the CEO of Virtual Dynamics a company that made some fantastic cables. He made a one off XLR IC for me many years ago which I still use and haven't bettered. Does anyone know where Rick is now? Here's the article:
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Amir was on here last December, using a woman's name. I think he identifies as a woman because he uses a woman's avatar on ASR. Funny, Ted Denney from SR was posting at the same time. Amir's Anti Christ..lol. Amir created mayhem with his insane, delusional rants for weeks. I just checked and all his posts have been deleted. I will stick to my long held belief that some people just can't hear the difference. The rest of us are either gifted or cursed by being able to appreciate what a $5k cable can do. |
@melm Not doubting you but looks like the 005 inside. Anyway if it doesn't work out I'll find another use for it.
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@yyzsantabarbara Don't know why you're not hearing a difference. Maybe bypass your power conditioner and go straight into the wall. What cable are you using into your Torus? I just changed my power conditioner fuse to a Power House Zero 2 and have ordered SR Purples to upgrade everything else. Amazing.
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@phastm3 I would wholeheartedly recommend the Aurender N20, it's the best value in the Aurender range. I've heard the N30 but it's more than double the price. IMO you'd be better off getting an N20 and a master clock unless your funds aren't limited. Before choosing the N20 I auditioned just about every streamer/server. Aurender plays all formats including native DSD. However no Roon. It's a perfect match to the 005 and can output pro level XLR voltage which the 005 can use and sounds better. |
@debjit_g Yes I agree I will experiment with different HDMI cables and different lengths but I'm enjoying the break-in so much at the moment to change anything. I've got a 0.35m Oyaide CAT 7 RJ45 Ethernet cable which I will try next. I've got a feeling that RJ45 cables are going to be better than HDMI because the wires are sightly larger but we'll need to wait and see. |
@melm Yes, I don't see why not, you can open a thread about this and other I2s converters. Oppomod.com now offer an I2s board which can be DIY fitted for Oppo Blu-Ray players.
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IMO we now have such a magnitude of processing capability on tap that up-sampling is no longer necessary and I concur with @sns that resolving systems don’t benefit much or at all from up-sampling. When all is said and done up-sampling is fake, it’s like wearing a fake Rolex. Maybe everyone else believes it’s real but you know it’s fake. The only up-sampling I thought was good was up-sampling to DSD but that was some time ago and the Musetec doesn’t need it. |
@debjit_g AFAIK the 005 is NOS and there is no facility in the software for up-sampling. However the Denafrips does up-sample even in NOS mode, there's something I saw on YT about it. |
It was a bit late last night when I made the Oversampling / Up-sampling comments. Just so everyone is on the same page an Oversampling DAC Over-samples and then Down samples internally. So 44.1 kHz could be Over-sampled to 88.2 kHz internally and then Down-sampled back to it's original frequency, 44.1 kHz. This is supposed to help reduce hash, noise and grunge etc. Up-sampling is increasing the sample rate manually eg 44.1 kHz to 192 kHz or whatever. HQ Player seems to be the current leader in Up-sampling tech but since I don't use a computer for audio I can't use it AFAIK. What I like doing (because I only listen to old stuff) is increasing the resolution of my system to extract more details from old recordings that I've listened to 1000's of times. |
@melm Well I’m finally onboard after Christmas Customs delays and an eventful experience dealing with Shenzhen Audio. I won’t berate them except to say you’ll be much better off phoning them and giving your shipping instructions, waybill information etc. instead of emailing them and leaving them to their own devices, but it was well worth it all in the end! So I’ve had the 005 for 3 days now and run it almost constantly for 72 hours. Straight out of the box the soundstage was big, did a few cable swaps until I got a good match, it’s very cable sensitive, good sign. DSD sounds absolutely wonderful almost hypnotic, you have to put down what you’re doing and LISTEN! Another good sign..lol. Unfortunately no DSD over AES/EBU or SPDIF only DOP which is more dynamic than the USB but lacks the magic. Redbook CDs sound better over AES/EBU but still undecided on AES/EBU or USB for Hi-Rez PCM, they both sound excellent. Out of the box the 005 oozes class, it’s silky smooth, black version. The LEDs are a beautiful shade of turquoise, one I’ve never seen before - stunning. How often would anyone remark on the LEDs? 15 DPLL settings No.1 is recommended for PCM and 6 for DSD I found these settings worked the best and they stay in memory. Switching inputs is a breeze on the front panel or remote. Fast and slow filters fast is way better. Phase swap for DSD because sometimes DSD channels get swapped over by software. PCM not able to swap. Listening via an Aurender N20 with a 10 Mhz master clock a 15 year old Virtual Dynamics custom XLR IC into a SMC Audio VRE-1 Pre-Amp. HiDiamond AES/EBU Reference and HiDiamond Standard USB $89.00! Will report back after I’ve put a few more miles on it. Thanks sincerely to everyone who recommended the 005.
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@sns Hi and thanks. The online manual recommends to use the lowest DPLL settings for the best SQ. PCM BW01-BW03 DSD BW06-BW10 Obviously these will get tweaked over time and fine tuned, lower the setting more detail, take it up a notch or two to smooth it out. Not streaming only using my ripped files, most of what I want to hear I've bought over the years. Maybe in a few months I'll add streaming but as you say that's another investment. Yes my digital cables will get upgraded but the HiDiamond USB is great value. The 005 is starting to reveal fault in the HiDiamond AES/EBU and push me more towards using the USB output and I'm a great fan of AES/EBU! After the 005 is fully burned in I'll be looking at a USB to I2S converter re-clocker but it's wonderful as of now. |
@romazicon When someone writes a huge Advertorial Diatribe on why I settled for Weiss, well it's just promoting a second rate product using a 10+ year old chip and just as old tech. Lots of people like the Weiss sound, because they have a house sound, but they are not accurate. That's all I said and it's true. I've demoed the 005 against the Medea and it was like night and day when it came to soundstage. The Medea had no advantage over the 005 and it costs over 10x more. The Taiko is like the Ferrari of the streamer world and it's complicated (for me) to operate. Aurender is like a Merc, you can use it every day, play golf and shop. Aurender is Linux based. The Aurender N30 and W20 SE will hold against the Taiko. My personal preference is for the N20, 005 and a custom 10Mhz clock. In my system the 005 punches well above it's weight because it's surrounded by quality cables and components. BTW thanks for the post and your detailed explanation and Eggleston Works have always promoted themselves on their perfect piano re-production. I own three pairs. |
So there you go again worrying about what something is called, not how it sounds. So which DAC did you buy? |
@melm Thanks again. I agree the USB input is just wonderful and just keeps getting better. I’m at the stage now where I believe everything sounds better through USB! This is a first for me because I’ve always had better sound with AES/EBU, that’s not saying it’s bad but it’s ever so slightly harder and a micron less involving, sort of 99% as good as USB. If anyone is on the fence regarding the Musetec 005 take the plunge you won’t regret it. It’s an accurate and natural sounding DAC that reproduces music truthfully. |
Well the Bricasti is $10K, 11K with network card vs $3K for the 005. The Bricasti also has a built in preamp, how was that issue handled during the test? I don't believe it's possible to bypass the preamp or feed the 005 into the Bricasti preamp? I guess the main strength of the Bricasti is that it's dual mono but bear in mind it would be very interesting to run two 005s in dual mono for $6K. I will try this with my dealer's unit. |
@yyzsantabarbara Just to be sure is the echo present throughout the whole track of Band on the Run or just at certain points? Which copy of the album were you listening to? Headphones, sorry I can't wear them, they make me feel claustrophobic. Thanks for your recommendation. |
@sns If you haven't tried the Purple fuses you're in for a treat. The biggest change was in my pre-amp and surprisingly my power amp. Give one a try they really work. |
While testing the I2s inputs I got to thinking about the USB cable, which I'm very happy with, but I thought should I get a USB cable without a powerline? Here ya go cheapest upgrade in the universe: https://community.octoprint.org/t/put-tape-on-the-5v-pin-why-and-how/13574 It talks about printers but it's exactly the same. I used ordinary sticky tape...thinking about upgrading to black electrical tape...lol! |
@sirnui Regarding USB into the 005 from your Grimm you'll probably find that the AES/EBU and USB will be very close. Not so with non-Amanero DACs, AES will be superior. Maybe you will even prefer one for different tracks. USB will be the only choice for Native DSD. My Aurender can convert DSD to DOP and I've found letting the Aurender convert to DOP and then switch on DOP in the 005 brings the best results. That's if you decided to forego USB. I'm very familiar with the Ediscreation and it's a great product but I would really like to know if the ENO has any effect after you install the Edis. Thx. |
@melm I was hoping to give a full review of the 005 this week but alas no, it still won't give up it's jewels, except to show me glimpses of it's brilliance. What I can confirm however is that this is a magnificent DAC. Reason I'm saying this is EVERY format, DSD, FLAC, WAV has their own circuit. I know this because initially I was using my FLAC library and then after about two weeks I started playing WAV, it was terrible. Took another week for the WAV to sound well. No other DAC has every behaved like this and I can confirm other people's comments that the 005 never gets out of it's depth. |
@auxinput Hi, I can only tell you what I heard and I've never experienced this behaviour from any DAC before. |
@auxinput @sns Please re-read my initial post I am not having a problem. What I said was that for the first two weeks I only played FLAC and DSD but after the first two weeks when I started to play WAV it sounded like it had to break in again, only for WAV. There is no issues now and there was never an issue, everything sounds great, but I heard what I heard. I don't know why it's such a big deal. |
@car123 All I can say is I'm getting the best music I've ever heard in my system using the LKS 100. Maybe it has something to do with system matching because both the 005 and 100 are LKS products and we are talking just milliamps mA for the I2s connections. No cable conductor swaps required either. The RJ45 came out best for me and if you read one of my earlier posts using WW Starlight was just impossible, but after using it as an Ethernet cable it broke-in and now it's fantastic as my I2s, getting Platinum soon. Guess it was due to the very low current on I2s. The LKS is only $200 but I would suggest a really good 5vdc power supply but you can test it out with a phone charger first.
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My 005 is just about broken in but I'll give it another week before I give a full review. The infuriating part is that there is very little difference between AES/EBU and USB. I say infuriating because I would like to be able to choose one so that I can buy a really expensive cable and be done, but it looks like I'll need two cables. In the meantime I've ordered an Audio GD DI-20HE which is also equipped with an Amanero Board that will give me USB to I2s conversion which should finally put the what's best input to rest. The Audio GD and Singxer SU-6 were both favorably reviewed by Golden Sound with the Singxer coming in at No.1, but I can't resist the massive power supply of the Audio GD. These are exciting times. |
@melm I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that the Amanero board in the 005 converts USB to I2s internally? Because the specs for I2s are much higher. |
@melm I apologise Man, maybe crossed the line a bit but some of these guys either don't have the resolving power in their system to differentiate DACs or they are so dyed in the wool with their own dogmas that nothing will shift them. Some of them are still holding on to their old DACs for grim death...haha. Anyway yesterday I put all suspicions to rest that The 005 couldn't go up against the big boys or perform excellently in a true reference system. Completely blew my dealer away when he heard it in his $500k reference system, and absolutely trounced his $40k reference DAC. The soundstage is massive at least twice of the other DAC by width and depth. My dealer was hearing things for the first time on his reference recordings. We played mostly Jazz and 60s/70s rock. He loved it so much he asked to borrow it for a week until he could get one. Anyway lots of naysayers out there including my dealer originally. The 005, if ONLY for the money is a game-changer but it's a World Class DAC that could grace any system. Just remember that all the Audio Reviewers get paid or get freebies to review. Happy Listening and thanks again Melm for bringing the 005 to our attention. |
@btscott No one is getting paid or rewarded here to give their opinions on the 005. It is just such a quality DAC for such a reasonable price, I believe the recommendation becomes contagious. It goes well beyond R2R vs Chip DACs and Western vs Chinese DACs. It's just superb. The only issue here is Musetec doesn't support it in any way, whereas most other Chinese DACs seem to have quite a bit of representation. |
@benzman The 005 responds well to all the expensive ICs, PCs and Digital cables you can throw at it. However, it will take you to hell and back during the break in, but it'll be well worth it. It took me a full eight weeks. Sometimes I have to flip the phase invert on the pre-amp to get the best sound and switch between AES/EBU and USB. It's been a struggle but USB finally seems to be gaining most favour. Now I'm listening to Mad Dogs and Englishmen, Joe Cocker. Just incredible raw emotion. The 005 will never bore you always full of surprises, good ones! Enjoy! |
@turcoda Hi, The 005 has an Amanero USB board which drastically reduces jitter. Re-clocking is not necessary, in fact it would be detrimental. The 005 weighs 9kg, the Singxer 2.7kg 'nuff said. |
@kclone The 005 will swing back and forth for a month or so while it's breaking in. Don't worry if you get some awful sound while the break in is going on. Sounds like your power socket is overloaded or the power breaker may be old and needs replacing. Check what else you have connected to the same circuit and the power capacity of your power conditioner. If your Aurender has an AES/EBU and/or COAX digital out set it to Professional Level in the Aurender App. You'll get a better sound. |
@kclone Hi, To put this matter to rest please plug your whole system except for your PC into a regular power strip, including your amp, and then switch your breaker on. If the breaker doesn't trip then the problem is with the PC. And as I said before is your system using a dedicated circuit? The power consumption of the 005 is only 25w. Also check your breaker is correctly rated and BTW is it an Earth Leakage Breaker? These trip very easily and you may need to adjust it. |
@kclone The online manual recommends you set DPLL to BW01 for PCM and BWO6 for DSD. I have found the SLOW filter is best. Turn off DOP and DE-Emphasis unless you really need them. You have an integrated amp so use the pre-amp and set the 005 volume to fixed. Make sure your Aurender is outputting Pro Level SPDIF and your conversion settings are correct. Happy Listening. |
@ja_kub_sz I haven't heard the Tambaqui but even if it did sound better than the 005 it would be in a micro detail or two, which you wouldn't even be able to pinpoint unless you were doing side by side comparisons, or personal taste. I've heard plenty of DACs more expensive than the Tambaqui and the 005 more than holds it's own. For that imaginary factor I'm not going to buy a Tambaqui or anything else. You can get a 005 and an Aurender N20 for the same price or a 005 plus over $10 grand of cables. Lots of people here have spent months talking about the Tambaqui but no one has stumped up the cash yet. Dreamers with lemonade money. |
@ja_kub_sz @teknorob23 Hi Guys, Well I’m glad that has finally been put to rest and the 005 can be acknowledged for the fantastic value it is. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Holo May has a few tricks up it’s sleeve but I just don’t like two box units. That’s why I came across this thread in the first place. I’m feeding an Aurender N20 (10 Mhz clocked) into the 005. I’ve found so far that the AES/EBU favours WAV, older CDs and PCM Hi Rez, while USB favours DSD, FLAC, SHM CDs and anything else that has been digitally enhanced. Everything is ripped to the Aurender SSD. I can see a Shunyata Omega AES/EBU in my future. I’m currently using a Hi Diamond Reference AES/EBU and Crystal Clear Audio USB Magnum Opus II, both of which I’ve found to be excellent.
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