Wow! @hilde45 , you really got everyone to come out today!!!
Since we are all voicing our opinions....here's mine.
I don't see many absolutes here. First, is McIntosh great gear? Yes. Have they had some flops? Yes. But the brand, the build, the effort, the commitment, service, resale, and yes the sound are great (usually).
McIntosh is a special brand. If someone doesn't like it, for any reason, that's cool. Vote with your pocketbook.
With respect to OCD Mikey, I actually like the guy. I'm not saying he's right or he's awesome. I just think he reminds me of someone passionate about his hobby who is spouting off a bit. I wouldn't mind having a beer with someone like him just to hear the passion. If you love food, watches, cars, hifi, talking about it is a piece of the passion.
But then again, I've sort of lost the taste for judging humans much these days.
Now, I've never owned a piece of McIntosh gear (but I've been around piles of it in my life). This thread makes me want to order up a nice little Mac amp and get one in my room!!!
Boy, I'm susceptible to things.....
Person A-- I hate pretty cake. Those pretty cakes are stupid. It should be about the taste only.
Me-- Hmmmm... I wasn't even thinking about pretty cake, let alone cake today....I want to have some pretty cake now!!
:)
PS. I once heard five figures of Mac gear driving Sonus Faber Olympicas. Then the store clerk swapped in some top end Rotel gear. Oh my, I just so happened to like that pairing better. Still, I'm thinking I should get some Mac gear in here!
Mikey is nothing but a used car salesmen. He only likes the brands that he sells. Once he looses the brand, he starts to crap on them. AGD for example. For many years he loved AGD, now looses the brand, and decides to put out a video comparing the JR125 to the AGD Tempo. Not on the fly comparsions like he normal does, but start and cut video with the speakers out of sight. I have nothing against JR as I'm sure it's great but to come out with this video right after he looses the line is suspicious. I purchased two pieces over the past few years from Mikey and was not happy both times. Never again.
What he failed to see because he looks too young? When hi-fi was beginning McIntosh stomped the competition with sound and look. It is now become a tradition, like Cadillac used to be seen as the best car on the road.
And... the MC 275 is still a great sounding amp! KT88's is all you need.
In the end it has to be about the sound per dollar spent.
many people feel the way you do, but some don't - why do you state this like it is gospel?
enjoying the finer things in life has many facets, different people with different tastes and different means weight those differently - if one can have their cake and eat it too, then why not? unless you have figured out a way to take your money with you ...
Great story - best post of the thread! Thank you so much for sharing. To my mind a system develops a personality over the years much like a treasured car or watch.
The more I listen to my C2300/MC275 through Magico A5’s the more I appreciate the world and time in which we live.
@stereo5there are several ways to answer your question. On the surface of it all I found peoples opinions to be rather one sided & fun to read, & there is nothing wrong with that. To go a bit deeper as to why I enjoyed this is to say I once took a law class in college years ago & our professor taught me something I have never forgotten & have found quite valuable. He once stated that a good lawyer can argue both sides of the law or case with the same amount of vigor no matter which side he or she believes is right, while most lawyers can only successfully argue the side in which they believe. For some reason that popped into my mind while going through the comments & I enjoyed analyzing peoples opinions in that light. It was good practice & insight. I never went into law, in fact I’m an aircraft electrician by trade for 26 years now. How did you sir enjoy this thread & why… & if I didn’t make sense during any part of this I apologize. I am on pain medication 💊 right now & lots of it… ☮️
Regardless of my thoughts on McIntosh (I've never owned any of their gear), a dealer who insults a line of products he doesn't carry is a dealer who I would not waste one second of my time listening to....
The negative replies are truly funny. I’m curious of what equipment they have tried. I’m definitely not loyal to any brand of equipment because I do consider myself an audiophile/ audio snob. If anyone is in the Southern California area and want to have a listen to my McIntosh MC2301 paired with Wilson Audio Maxx 2 speakers, Cary Audio SLP-05 preamp with the (Ultimate Upgrade, tube rolled, & Cardis wiring inside) and various high end source units to compare and contrast. I’m more than happy to reshape your mind and soul. At the end of the day, it is all about what you like or love and how you match equipment up with each other. Believe me, I’ve been down that road just like some of you trying to find the best matching equipment to give the best possible sound first and looks second. Ask my wife, she hates the look of my speakers but loves how it sounds.
I just got my Achilles’ tendon replaced yesterday & I am in a lot of pain, but this Mac thread has brought me joy. Thanks. OCD guy is a ranter, but makes some good points. I say Let him be… I think he is struggling to find a successful business model.
Why does this video not have any 'Dislikes'? I would think with the number of negative reviews of his views, it would have more than 'zero'. Things that make you go, hmmm.
@bigboypeteGood on ya man. I ran a 202 for a decade. When you get it serviced there is i believe an effective LED light upgrade kit now, I replaced the burned out lights in mine, fairly easy to do if you are handy w soldering iron.
Remember the old saw about working with a dealer who bashes another company's products. As I read this I think of the usual "cranky old men talking about their stereos" crowd that could be doing other things like going to live shows, spending time with the family, learning a new skill like a musical instrument or getting some sun instead of carving up each other and the equipment. Passion doesn't have to be bashin'.
I've been powering B&W 702 signatures with a 20 year old 200 watt/channel McIntosh MC 202 solid state amp, and every time I think about updating the amp, I say to myself: "Why? This amp sounds great and has the muscle to power to 702s as they deserve." Someday, I'll have to get those blue lights fixed, but the MC 202 has really stood the test of time to my ears.
I wonder what made him become such a hater🤔. I’ve owned a lot of amps in the past as I worked my way up to the level of McIntosh and the like. When I finally got there, I was NOT disappointed. Especially the versatility and sound of my C-2500 tube preamp. Amps can be traded and perfected but no one will beat that Mac Preamp for functionality and sound. As for Amps, I still Aim to trade up to their mono 601s some day or maybe even their 1201s. But to knock their sound, reliability and reputation really doesn’t make sense. Yeah, everyone has different tastes, but the difference in sound isn’t drastic at these costs, IMHO.
I assume you’d agree that there is a difference between pointing out what is being said with agreeing or endorsing what is being said. You can see from the OP that I’m not endorsing.
I do agree with you that there is a difference. After reading that you weren’t endorsing his video I apologize for stating you posted this to stir the pot.
The worst is people commenting highly costly gear in non specifically controlled room ...They delude themselves listening the difference between amplifiers for example instead of creating a specific environment for a specific amplifier and not for another one...They ignore the acoustic power to bent the room in relation to a gear choice...
The consequence is they listen more to the sound of the chosen gear than to the music coming from the room.... When we read their review it is evident....
The truth is i prefer to keep my 500 bucks Sansui/Mission system with my controlled room not because my system is better, this would not be a true statement nor a meaningful one, but because my system optimzed give me a ratio S.Q./price over the roof already even if their potential S.Q. may be better...
Mac guys are hard core right? The real "Marantz" crowd makes Mac guys look like beggars in the streets. Talk about hard core. THEY love their Marantz Tube gear. Try to buy, some of that gear.. They don't even list their gear any more, they just pass it amongst themselves. They don't even call it gear. :-)
How does it really sound? Like Marantz tube gear. Yup sure does.
Wow, the OP hit a response grand slam with this one. I can't imagine why he was so taken with this odd little 'editorial', but, it brings to mind a point that many of us have thought about at one time or another.
From my experience, I can’t argue with that notion. Who hasn't looked at Mac stuff at one time or another & just said wow? Knowing better doesn’t stop me from having always wanted a room with a gorgeous Mac Stack, but when reality sets in, I know I’d just be buying some really cool looking and expensive decoration when that money would be better served buying something sonically spectacular.
We must think Hilde the OP to have put this video here to awake our attention...
He knows very well that the focus on the gear is the main FIRST necessity when we create our own system but it is also our first limitation when we begin...This limitations or characteristic of our gear choice will be compensate by the acoustic correct tuning for them anyway...
Acoustic is the thing that matter more than any gear choice because any relatively good choice of gear will do...
But the ultimate S.Q. will come from acoustic treatment and control not from the gear...
People dont understand that really, it is normal, they NEVER did a room by tuning it to assist the gear by themselves, then they never contemplate the complete transformation of the gear... COMPLETE transformation...Going from a nude room to a room made synergetically to serve the specific gear for our specific ears... At the end the objective result is also a completely subjective one... It is NOT a contradiction it is a PROCESS....
I am a fairly hard core audio guy. MacIntosh has place in our world. I remember as a teen in the early 1970's I would DROOL at the C28 pre-amp. Father of a friend of mine knew I was an audio nut. He asked me to help him pick out a really nice system. Easy, all MacIntosh - A C28 plus whatever was their top of the line tuner and amp with meters. JBL L200 speakers. Dual 1219 turntable and some super nice Sure cartridge. For 1974 this was a serious system.
Later that year I got a job working for AR (Acoustic Research) and I started to hear things differently. Like most of us our listening matured as did the equipment. By 1979 I was deep into Mark Levinson, particularly his first class-a amps. Add 40 years to that and assume I have listened to some fine systems over the years.
Recently my friends father that bought the system in 1974 passed away. We were at his house and couldn't resist putting on some records. The warm blue lights of the C28 looked great. There was a new LP12 and better cartridge. The L200's and old MacIntosh still put on a hell of a fine performance.
That system worked, and continues to, for forty plus years. Lots of great listening, lots of parties. My friend is moving the system to his summer house in Maine.
He has a super nice current audio system - but the old C28 and L200's will live on.
I bet Mikey would be open to someone bringing some McIntosh amps to replace the amps he has in his system. I would bet money that the McIntosh amps would not sound nearly as good as his current amps sound. Just my guess, but Mikey would have McIntosh amps in his system if they sounded better than what he has. He was just giving his educated opinion….nothing else.
I can say this from experience, you have to experience ugly, gothic and then WORSE than ugly, to know what it is.
Me if it's that UGLY, I didn't go around it to begin with.
Mac is the finest gear on the planet, you have the right to be wrong, I will give you that.. But I'll recommend a little bigger spoon, Mac guys have heard it all from the jealous and of course uninformed..
I'm looking at a pair of brand new 24K gold studded cases for MC60s. Rare as hens teeth. Any body want to one up that? From a classy group in Canada that keeps the flames fanned with top notch repair parts.. They actually have a jewelers polish rating.
It's not lonely owning Mac as you can see.
No I don't have any Mac paraphernalia other than a Bulldog from a MACK Tractor..
Ok OP, no disrespect but that was a very ignorant post. None of my 8 pieces of Mc gear did I buy for looks. Nor am I stuck in any way in my decisions. Are you saying that you know for a fact that his Rolland 625’s sound better in my system than my Mc 901’s. You don’t. This hobby is experiencing a renaissance of new growth and people like you are a detriment to this hobby and it potential based on your last post. Generic blanket statements of ignorance. That is the issue with these bash threads and why I chose to speak up. AG should realize their opportunity for growth is hindered by members like yourself.
"People like you." Well, thanks a lot. But you’re confusing what I’m asserting with what I take the video to be asserting. You’re "shooting the messenger." Such misreadings hinder the discussion. Re-think it.
Those of you in this forum that post this elitist BS only do it because you know it "stirs the pot" in this forum.
I assume you’d agree that there is a difference between pointing out what is being said with agreeing or endorsing what is being said. You can see from the OP that I’m not endorsing. It’s being said in the video, it’s fatuous and hobby-damaging nonsense, and I’ve called it out. Others here (like @jjss49@oldhvymec and all the other Mc owners) have provided the disproof. It’s called a thorough debunking and in my opinion, it’s better to debunk BS than pretend it doesn’t exist. At this point, I’d consider the video debunked.
Why the PM to me directly instead of just asking in front of everyone in the thread? It is elitist BS to insult others because of what they prefer. This thread isn’t about bashing McIntosh gear. It’s about bashing people that own McIntosh gear.
I do not have a REALLY deep listening experience with Mac Intosh (there are several lines of products in the last decades so different ) but as a reputation I vuold compare it to Apple ( they are both MAC 😂) ... a class apart. That's why some people adore them, others hate them 🤷♀️
My last comment here. Those of you in this forum that post this elitist BS only do it because you know it "stirs the pot" in this forum. I guess it makes you feel better about yourselves to insult and belittle the choices of others. Nice maturity level.
What he is claiming, though, is that while you’re enjoying the Mc experience, you are foregoing better quality experience with other gear. In part, he says, you’re taken in by the looks of Mc. In part, you’re just stuck in a comfy cage. You’ve settled for lesser gear. Are you content? Sure. So are those who eat pork rinds and call them gourmet food. But you’re missing out on the real audiophile experience that Mc. cannot deliver.
So, he’s not bashing Mc owners, per se. He’s pitying them for being stuck. And he’s warning those not yet owning Mc gear -- or the other brands which are not truly audiophile as he defines it -- to steer clear of those audio cul-de-sacs.
this is elitist b-s -- it is as intellectual dishonest as it is self-serving
properly functioning mac gear of ANY generation is absolutely good enough to fulfill the audiophile pursuit - a garrard record player, a dynaco iv tube amp and a pair of jbls or bozaks from the 1960's do it... let’s get real -- we are here today because people 50-60 years ago desired and pursued great music played beautifully in homes for enjoyment - the fact that it has an aesthetic quality and looks cool too is totally besides this central point
the gear matters (imo it is too strong to say it doesn’t, it needs to meet some suitable level of quality, in spite of what some here would like to think), and of course, so does the room, and most importantly, so does the attitude and willingness to desire it and pursue it, with time, effort, money -- these things need to come together harmoniously
So, he's not bashing Mc owners, per se. He's pitying them for being stuck.
This is what irritates me about this hobby. This self crafted ideal that certain equipment and/or bands are superior over everything else. The "everything else" category is all trash and you're unintelligent suckers for purchasing said gear. As @mahgister likes to remind everyone, it's not only the gear that is important.
To my ears McIntosh gear is neutral. It allows me to hear just the music. That is why I am in this hobby. I am here for the music.
Thank you. As I stated, I certainly do not hate McIntosh. Why on earth would anyone hate any product unless you bought it and were then extremely disappointed? I assume those that buy it are for the most part not disappointed.
I would ask other posters one question though, why does this company feel the need to sell merchandise? Do you not find this ridiculous and demeaning? Would you believe they even sell McIntosh covid masks?
I think the Mc fans here have more or less countered these claims. I'm just pointing out that he's not really bashing people so much as saying they're deluded in thinking they've gone into true audiophile territory.
AND there is the rub. Everyone has an opinion and as a few have pointed out, "Pick out the gear" and work from there. I could use just about any gear and work from there. Some start with Mac, some with Sansui like Master M.
To even suggest an audiophile is determined by the gear they own or don't own is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. THAT is the problem with this guy. He doesn't seen to understand statements just like that puts HIM in the not only the Midfi class but somewhat ignorant to what an audiophile is. It has ZERO to do with GEAR, it has to do with the persons ability to excel in spite of or in lieu of money or gear. Knowing 1/2 the sound is the room just how far does one part (say a power amp) costing 2k vs one costing 40k, IF 50% is the room and the actual amps are 5-10% of the SQ? Same with cables. I've seen people budget according to "CABLES" total BS. The point of diminishing returns happens so quickly after 300.00 for me the .25% per 1000.00 spent just isn't worth the 100.00 dollar room improvement and get 3-5% return in SQ.
I've strapped into systems that the sweet spot was so small your head went between two cushions above your ears..
The hours spent on some of these peoples rigs is crazy, and the money to sometimes, BUT sometimes NOT! Look at Master M.. FOR PEANUTS. A system for listening to music.. 523.41 cents :-) He added 4 dollars for ear plugs..
My truck is awesome! Seriously, this is a silly thread. Buy what you like. Lots of great gear in the Mac price range. I would reckon there’s larger gaps and differences in high end speakers than high end amps.
Because they dont understand the process to create a real audiophile experience with almost any good gear...
And appearence and price tag is the rule among human not basic elementary listening experiments in acoustic...
Why must people try to fell superior by trying to diminish the choices of others. I would ask the posters who feel sorry for certain gear owners, would you fell sorry for me because I enjoy driving my 1958 Bugeye Sprite with power nothing over my twin turbo Mercedes?
Why must people try to fell superior by trying to diminish the choices of others. I would ask the posters who feel sorry for certain gear owners, would you fell sorry for me because I enjoy driving my 1958 Bugeye Sprite with power nothing over my twin turbo Mercedes?
Ok OP, no disrespect but that was a very ignorant post. None of my 8 pieces of Mc gear did I buy for looks. Nor am I stuck in any way in my decisions. Are you saying that you know for a fact that his Rolland 625's sound better in my system than my Mc 901's. You don't. This hobby is experiencing a renaissance of new growth and people like you are a detriment to this hobby and it potential based on your last post. Generic blanket statements of ignorance. That is the issue with these bash threads and why I chose to speak up. AG should realize their opportunity for growth is hindered by members like yourself.
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