Looking for more advice on purchasing a new turntable.
So I’m looking for Opinions/Advice from people who have high-end turntables and the experiences with.
First, I’ll start with my system. It consists of a Prima Luna preamp and two Prima Luna amplifiers along with the prima Luna phone stage with a pair of magnepans 1.7 My budget for the table is $5000 new or used, but for that price I would want it to come with a really good cartridge otherwise, 4000 for the table and 1000 for the cartridge.
Thanks I look forward to your recommendations.
please give us the model number so we know it's capabilities.
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Think long, think a few cartridges, perhaps MM, MC, and Mono, thus at least an arm with changable headshell, or, better yet,,the possibility of a second tonearm, with an alternate cartridge ready to go in seconds.
Two tonearms is terrific, but you need to figure out how to select the alternate arm/cartridge.
My vintage Tube Preamp has 2 MM Phono inputs
In my case, 3 arms, I use a SUT with 3 inputs and PASS for MM, and
I helped my friend with his wonderful Luxman Two Arm TT PD-444 which has a built in switch for the two arms.
This one has a new dust cover and two mounting plates
you could pick a single arm to get started, add a second arm later. We put two Micro Seiki 505 arm's on his, 12" long on the rear left, 9" on the right. both removable headshells,
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I helped my friend with a very versatile Technics SP-15, with the terrific arm base with instant arm height adjustment, changable arm wands, one of which is an S arm with removable headshell, it was/is a 3 speed monster, the modern units specs don't surpass it
I have a high end analog end… Linn LP12 (near Klimax), Audio Research Reference 3SE phono stage, Koetsu Signature cartridge, Silent Running Isolation Platform (see my system under ID) ($45K). Each month I get excited to pull out one of my 2,000 virtually all pristine albums. I clean the surface, the stylist and sit down only to hear the great sound quality. It sounds great… just to verify it sound better than my digital end I switch to the streaming version of the album, it sounds great… usually the same, occasionally better. Hence, my play a vinyl album a day has gone to once a week and then once a month.
So, if you are really looking to enjoy the nostalgia of the vinyl days… I would look into VPI, or Linn. The great value in addition to sound quality is the same table can be incrementally upgraded to the very highest level. Rega is also a safe bet… although I have never been a fan. I have owned VPI, Linn, Rega, and a number of not as high end turntables. Or of course you could spend the $5K improving your digital end.
There are different technologies for turntables: idler wheel drive, belt drive, and direct drive. They sound different. I like belt drive - I gave away my last DD.
I now have two turntables, a DIY air bearing turntable / tonearm combination (which sounds better than anything else I've heard) and a Nottingham Analogue Mentor (which sounds much better than any Linn of the same era, IMO). Current model is Dais, which you might afford used. My cartridges are a MC and a MI, driving Quad electrostatics and Magnepan DWM's.
The thing about a belt drive is that it depends less on the motor than the other technologies, and interactions between the motor and platter, and between the motor and tonearm, can both be minimized or eliminated. Also, belt drive can have a much simpler controller, and so almost nothing to go wrong. So it makes sense to buy a boutique belt drive from the factory, whereas it would be madness to buy a DD from anyone but a major manufacturer through a scrupulous retailer. These factors can shave a lot off the cost.
Good luck with all of it - and my experience is VERY different from @ghdprentice , in that I can't listen to digital for more than a few minutes without gritting my teeth and begging for it to stop. YMMV
Merrill Superpolytable used with Jelco 12" or the current arm, either with a used Benz Micro RubyH or comparable Benz or Lyra. Or VPI Super Prime or comparable model with the 10.5 uni arm, I think it is JMW10, and slightly used cartridge of choice. Both of these more value, and I think more long lasting than anything you buy new these days in that price range, as a belt, if you go belt.
How about a new Rega P8 (or a lightly used Rega P10) with an Apheta 3 cartridge? The Rega cartridges have the no-fuss three point attachment
It’s a great tt, no messing with removable headshells or multiple tone arms.
I never quite bought into why you need multiple tone arms to use multiple cartridges, nor do I play mono records, but that’s just me.
That personal choice aside, the more stuff you get (multiple tonearms, and cartridges etc.) the more diluted each part gets for the $$ you are willing to spend.
I’d rather have ONE solid tt that doesn’t need fussing and ONE cartridge so I am not diluting my $$ on a bunch of different parts.
If you have a PL PS, I assume you have a current TT. What is it? Anything you like/dislike about it? That could help narrowing down the discussion. Given that you have all PL, I assume you are an upscale customer, and you get some loyalty discounts if you buy a TT from them.
I had a VPI super prime scout with ADS with a SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC* cart. With many VPIs, to change from 33 to 45 you have to manually change the belt. Is that OK or a no-go? With ADS, you can do that on the box, but on my unit there was an eight second delay before unit spun up to 45, which I found very annoying. The VTA adjustment I hardly ever used and barely heard a difference, so putting less stock into that. my 2c.
I recently changed to a Rega Naia package ($17K), so different approach (P8-type). Do you like the minimalist/low mass approach? I noticed right away the better tighter bass with the Rega. Speed control is by button on goes right up to target speed.
finding a solid Garrard 301 with a decent arm is always one great answer to that $5k turntable question. most of those have had loving homes, if you watch closely for a month or so quickly you will learn about them; one ought to pop up maybe not too far away you can even go hear. and there are lots of hot rod parts that can be used to up the performance.
the 301 imparts an energy to the music beyond it’s price point. the 301 competes with the big boys in musical fun. and does not hurt that they look sexy as hell.
good luck with your search. happy turntable hunting.
Another VPI fan here. I always buy gently used as you'll get much more the dollar.
Soundsmith makes wonderful cartridges again I purchased gently used. You can usually buy for about half the price of new and his rebuild prices are extremely low.
I find modern digital streaming and server files equal too or better than vinyl, without the required ritual of removing from storage and cleaning vinyl prior to playing to achieve good SQ and preserve the record. In addition, attention to setup TT,TA, and Cartridge setup is critical for vinyl playback. IMHO why hassle unless an offering is not streaming, in your library, or you are just feeling nostalgic. However, at your price point going preowned will get you much better SQ. Some favs of mine are VPI, Linn, and SME. Linn requires much attention to detail. SME will be hard to find, but not impossible, at your budget. VPI provides very easy setup and good SQ at their price point. There is a VPI HRX with VPI JM 12.5 TA and Benz Micro cartridge for just over $5k on this site (no vested interest) and a Linn LP 12 with Dynevector
I do understand that the top two mofi cartridges are excellent options. I used the cartridge that came with it for a couple years, a master tracker. It was very good and easy to live with. But when I installed the Hana and brought in a PS JC 3 Jr. pre, wow! Everything just opened up. IMO I’m going to have to spend gobs of dough to hit the next rung in performance. Estimation of my vinyl set up, $2k for deck, $1k pre-amp, $750 for cartridge. Total $3750. (Everything bought on sale)
Save some money and get a Technics SL100 C. Great turntable at the price.
I am currently using a Technics SL1200GR. It is better built than the SL100C but it costs twice as much (and has all the disco features). I bought it before the SL100 came out; I would probably have bought the SL100C if it had been available.
The SL1200GR is a great turntable. I A/B'd it with the SL1200G with a variety of carts and could tell no difference. The 1200G is a bit sexier, has two motors, and a magnesium tonearm. I concluded those features were not worth the extra cost.
A feature of all these turntables that I really enjoy is the removeable head shell. I run different carts depending on my mood. Not sure about the 100C, but the 1200GR makes it super easy to dial in the settings for each cartridge (I keep notes on a piece of paper where I store my carts). This is an essential element of my enjoyment of playing records! If I am looking for absolute accuracy and convenience, I use digital sources. But with the ability to easily swap carts, listening to records is a hoot!
And now for something completely different. A few years ago, I ordered a GEM Dandy Polytable in your price range, a table that was suggested to me personally by no less than Michael Fremer himself.
Despite the witty name, this table is pretty serious. It’s the first "entry-level" design by TT Yoda George E. Merrill ("GEM" -- get it?). If you call the company directly to order, George himself will work out a configuration with you, after which, your unit is then built to order under his supervision. This is a boutique operation, providing the kind of personalized service that is pretty rare these days. Post-sales support, in my experience, is unparalleled.
The Polytables’ plinths seem to share a design philosophy with Rega tables like the Planar 10 -- lightweight, exceedingly stiff, well isolated. But the table’s big claim to fame is its DMD outboard digital motor, which (and Fremer’s own measurements confirmed this) is incredibly accurate. Although I can’t personally confirm it, George claims the DMD to offer speed accuracy in a class with six-figure tables.
And as a lifelong gizmo freak, I'm blown away by the table's "Clockwork Orange" aesthetic.
One caveat: Definitely configure the DMD motor: in addition to speed accuracy, it lets you change speeds by pressing a button.
The GEM Dandy is aunique bespoke component, not for everyone, but still interesting enough to warrant a look. You can find reviews of the table and George’s preferred Sorane arm (a big upgrade from the original Jelco) at Fremer-era AnalogPlanet & TAS.
Today, a mid-to-high-end configuration + 9" arm runs about $4500-5000. I originally outfitted my unit with an Ortofon 2M Black (about $800 at the time) & that was a good match, but the table produced even more impressive SQ when I later upgraded to a $2500 Hana Umami Blue MC.
The problem with turntables is that they're very hard to compare. If you go in one store they'll have a certain cartridge mounted and be going through a certain phono preamp. They're not going to change that setup for you, even if they did carry another phono preamp, which most don't . So, you're almost stuck with reviews and buying online.
I've owned a 90's model Rega Planar 3, and a ten-thousand dollar Thorens. (I forgot the name.) Then I bought a used VPI TNT-3. The Thorens had more bloom and the Rega was faster. But I thought the VPI was the truest sounding of the lot.
I sold the TNT-3 because I was having trouble with the unipivot tonearm. The arm was fine, but I'm getting older and shakier and mounting a nude cartridge was more than I could take. I basically bought the same turntable with some updates, the VPI Prime Signature. The basic turntable comes in many flavors and prices. I'm sure the less expensive ones would sound fine.
Even if I had the time and energy to go around listening to turntables at various dealers, they just don't carry that big a selection. So, I trust VPI to have a solid, true sound, and if I needed a new one it would be another VPI.
I also really like the company. It's family owned in the USA, and if you call with a problem you might likely end up talking to the owner who's a really nice, helpful guy. And they don't ask if you bought the turntable used or new. They just help you.
Started with a Rega and it had 60 cycle hum with cartridge near middle of record due to magnetics of motor. I moved to VPI PRIME AND VPI SPEED CONTROLLER . Ive had workmanship issues on both. VPI needs dual pivot and new lifter speed controller hum and indicator lights. I’m looking maybe Japanese turntable or Dr Feickert
These Threads Types regularly bring the Vintage Option to the Forefront, but not always the entirety of the options.
The Links will show an alternative for a Idler Drive TT and DD TT's which will prove to be very difficult to surpass with TT's bought at the $4K to $5K price range.
I would also strongly suggest a Vintage DD TT, proven to be in Good Order, when mounted in a particular design for a Plinth, will sit comfortably in the Company of TT's at the $20K+ purchase range in today's monies.
I just acquired my first direct drive TT after 35 years participation in our great hobby. Technics 1200 GR2. I am in love with the look, feel, ability to change cartridges easily, great system for setting VTA, cartridge alignment and VTF. It sounds great too. Everytime I turn this on it brings a big smile and now, when I want to listen to original release mono recordings, one minute switch to use my mono cartridge. The rig was $2300 and change and worth every penny.
I suggest you investigate the Technics SL 1200 G. I believe this is the only turntable recommended by Stereophile magazine as a highly recommended direct-drive audiophile turntable that isn’t a $10,000+ belt-drive turntable. I believe the Technics SL 1200 G will be under $5000. I don’t believe it comes with any cartridge, so would recommend you would at least start with an Ortofon 2M blue or something higher in price from them or Sumiko.
+1 Rega P8- will allow a cartridge >$1000 which can be money well spent if it matches up with the phono stage and arm (a lighter weight cartridge would be best). I am personally a van den Hul fan. Just make sure it is not going to be subject to any floor vibration from a suspended floor or you'll need a wall shelf and vibration control. Those improvements will make it very tough to beat for a lot more money because of the excellent high value arms Rega makes that are included. In this case an RB 880. Not a fan of Rega cartridges though. I think they are overpriced.
OP, you might consider a new Linn LP12 Majik. This table should be in budget and will include a decent Arm/ MM cartridge along with a good choice of options if you desire. The basic model is well equipped and will allow you to upgrade if you desire and funds allow, without having to ditch the original table to do so.
I looked briefly through the thread, but I didn’t see whether you currently own a table or have any experience with analog. I think the recommendations would be more focused if you answered that. Sorry if I missed it if you did. @thedoc2004
Include a record cleaner in your budget. Sadly the high end ultrasonic will pretty much eat up your budget. There are much lower cost alternatives, work out in your head the cost vs. effectiveness vs. hassle factor for each and add this to your budget. Are you a tinkerer or do you want a table to show up ready to play? Setting up an expensive cartridge is not for the faint of heart, you should be able to guess how I know this. Hoping you have a reputable dealer that sells one of the brands listed above and will set up the table plus cartridge for you. $5000- for new equipment versus used will sound pretty much the same. Consider a hybrid model, used table plus cleaner with a new cartridge, preferably professionally installed.
One thing that I suggest considering in the choice of a turntable is the type of music you prefer. This is a vast generality but some turntables sound more solid but seem to lack some pace. These turntables can sound really good with orchestral music for which the ability to create a weighty, solid sound is beneficial. Typically, the turntables that I've heard with these characteristics are high mass designs.. Other turntables are better at conveying pace and rhythm. These turntables tend to be better for jazz music and other music for which pace, rhythm and timing are important. Turntables that fit this description tend to be lighter weight designs with Rega turntables (but also Linn) being prime examples. I think Technics turntables also have these characteristics, but haven't heard one personally yet.
I personally find this to be an important consideration as I've found that certain turntable designs don't work for me at all due to their perceived lack of pace and timing.
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