Looking for intermediate-step Streamer: better than BS Node and not @ Bartok level pricing

I've sold my Sonore Optical Rendu, Ultra Digital, and linear power supply. After two months of comparing the Sonore setup with the Wiim Pro.

The Wiim sounds better and the functionality is light years ahead of Sonore. 

I have been enjoying my new Eversolo DMP-A6 as a streamer (USB out to my Benchmark DAC3).

Excellent value.

Don't spend more until you have heard this unit!

Have any of you used the Sonore products, ultraRendu, opticalRendu, or Signature Rendu SE and, if so, what did you think and particularly compared to other options?  The first two range from like $1.1K to $1.8K, which should meet the "intermediate-step" intent of the OP.

Another two for the OP to consider are Metrum's Ambre and Sonnet's Hermes, either of which are around $1K. 

I might be a little confused about the term "streamer" since those products are also sometimes called an endpoint, renderer, or digital bridge, and the functionality seems to vary between the specific products that fall into the streamer category.

Auralic Aries G1.1 or G2.2 ... G1.1 is about $2300. new G2.2 is $6000.  I had an Aries G1 for about 4 years, just recently upgraded to the G2.2

This discussion has been both VERY helpful and VERY confusing

Sometimes the best answer is one that yields more questions. 

Absolutely.  

 

This discussion has been both VERY helpful and VERY confusing

Sometimes the best answer is one that yields more questions. 

That's what I've heard so I've ordered a decent coax cable. Going to connect it to a T+A Dac 200 which is still in its box. Going to be interesting. I have a decent USB cable too so I may test out both. 

Congrats on you folks that have bought an Aurrender N200. It is likely the Sp/DIF connection will sound better and that the Yggdrasil will hold back the performance somewhat… but I am sure you will really enjoy the streamer.

Thanks. 

I am still early on with the N200.... 

Presently connected to my DAC with USB and will plan on running with this over the next 30 days before testing Coax.  I have yet to store any music.  My current DAC is the Schitt Yggdrasil LIM which I have had in my system about a year.  No complaints whatsoever about the quality of sound from this DAC but will likely be looking to step up in 2024.  I deliberately spent more on my streamer so I wouldn't have to go through a replacement/upgrade process with this anytime soon.  

Re advice on the set up - its very straightforward and took me about 30 minutes.  Aurrender provided a solid quick start guide - just make sure to check all your connections.  I know a few posters have had issues with connectivity between their iPad and Conductor.  Hope this helps! 

@norust Congrats. I've also bit on the Aurender N200 and it is expected Wednesday. A few questions.

Have you tried both USB and Coax connections? If so, which do you prefer? What DAC are you using? Have you stored local music yet? If so, any advice for getting that going?

Best of luck Joe and good for you in doing your research.  @dz13 - I recently posted my initial impressions on a thread I had started back in early fall prior to selecting the N200.  The net is that the early listening through the Aurrender has been delightful.  Its a big step up for me and an improvement in the sound quality and detail.  I found the N200 very easy to install and am running Conductor on my iPad.  Have no issue whatsoever with the Conductor app but at this time I am primarily streaming TIDAL.  I was able once I narrowed down my choice in the search to find a lightly used one owner  N200.  So not a big delta in the price over a new N150.  Yesterday I added a new USB cable between my N200 and DAC - a Network Accoustics eno USB III.  

Hi,

I have had the opportunity to listen to the Aurender A100 and A10. No doubt the A10 is better.

I found a local dealer to audition the Innuos. Will be working on that.

This discussion has been both VERY helpful and VERY confusing. I am becoming increasingly aware that the APP is critical to a good experience. I particularly appreciate those of you who have shared ideas about PURE streamers or apples to apples with a constant DAC.

I have reconsidered my budget -- to much less, as it seems like the answer to this question is very much still open. I know you each have found a Streamer/DAC you like. Reading the latest review of the new Bartok in TAS, describing it as a revelation, makes me realize how early we are in this process of getting the technology right. I am going to proceed with caution.

Thanks again for all your help and ideas!!

Joe

@norust I wonder if you've had an opportunity to receive the N200 and give initial impressions. Inquiring minds and all. 

@jmfawdofile

I was in a similar boat and wanted a streamer that sounded better than the RPi and Node. Was going to try the Primare NP5 but went with the Lindemann Bridge II.

It’s a German brand. Looks like a little box but don’t be fooled, high end engineering. Noticeably better sound. Lindemann also have one of the best apps in the streaming game.

I then upgraded the power supply to a price appropriate match, the Farad Super 3, which raised things again.

I don’t know how well this combo competes with expensive streamers. But it killed, for example, the streaming section of the Naim Uniti Atom Headphone Edition, which was a shame because that product was so cool, but the Naim internal streamer could not even come close to the Lindemann/Farad combo.

jmfawdofile,

I really feel the Innuos Pulsar would be a very good option for you to consider. It is just a streamer and has an Integrated PhoenixUSB Lite Reclocker .

@mitch2   Unfortunately I don’t have experience with the Pulse and not many do as it’s a relatively new model, and there are frustratingly few reviews of any of the Pulse-series streamers so they’re still a bit of an unknown but likely to share many sonic characteristics of the Zen and Zenith.  I recommended the Pulse due to Innuos’ reputation for good sound along with a really excellent app that some have even abandoned Roon for.  Frankly, in your price range I’d look at Innuos and Aurender and choose the one that offers the features/sound you’re looking for.  Sorry I can’t be more help. 

OP - I replaced a BS Node with an Aurender N100SC and the Aurender completely destroys the Node in every respect. The same DAC (Border Patrol DAC SE) and cable (Oyaide DR510) were used with each streamer, so it was an apples to apples comparison.

N100s are going for around $1500 +/- a few hundred right now. You have a pretty healthy budget, so you can go for something even better (N150 or N200). Any of these will be a drastic improvement. Will it be a Bartok-level improvement? I have never heard one, so I can't say.

@soix  - Do you have specific experience with the Innuos Pulse?  I ask because I am going down this road and I am interested in the Innuos Pulsar.  My only possible drawback is only USB output and that I haven't heard it to assess SQ.  Another I am looking at is the ARIES G2.2.

I am looking at the N150 (or N100).  It is used alot at audio shows and is well made.  The N150 will have great resell value if you want to swap it out in a year.  Like others have said, I would spend in the 3's for a streamer and save the rest for a DAC.  Personally, I think the DAC will have more impact then the streamer - but I agree, one small step at a time.  

@jmfawdofile , Get a Esoteric N-03T (It has all the trickle down from their stuff that used to cost more)....

Later on (as you get richer), try the Grimm Audio MU1....

Or (since you seem like nice guy! 😁).............. just ditch all this crap altogether and get into Sony’s 360 reality audio eco system...i.e. Get the Sony STR-AZ7000ES Receiver (about 3300 bucks), run preouts into some meatheaded class A amps for fronts. Add 2 more Vienna Acoustic speakers for surrounds (i.e. a total of 4 speakers). Now, you will start to hear/experience all kinds of things inside a 3D dome of object based audio that all the 2 channel dudes will never hear in life after spending a few hundred thousand dollars. All the 60s to 90s rock musicians will be sitting on your lap inside the 3D dome.

Seems like Bricasti, Lumin, Simaudio, Cambridge, Aurender, PS Audio and Auralic are what is being suggested (did I forget any?). The BS app is excellent. And that has spoiled me. The DCS app is terrible. I have used Aurender app. Not bad. Any thoughts on the apps for these streamers?

Seems like my prior recommendation, which was tailored specifically for what you’re looking for, went unnoticed so I’ll reiterate FWIW…

An easy recommendation is the Innuos Pulse that in addition to being an excellent streamer comes with their Sense app that gets very high marks for both usability and sonics, and they also offer top notch customer support should you ever need it.

I love my N200. It's even better now with Conductor 4 controlling it

@dz13 there seems to be quite a few people here on A’gon that use the t+a 200 and N200 combo at  least according to a dealer that participates quite frequently here and sells them both lol.  I have an N200 paired with a Terminator Plus which is on the same level as the t+a.  Imo they go very nicely together so it seems your match up would be very nice as well.

Hello Joe, my name is Stu and I’m a roonaholic. Roon is my absolute control app of choice.  Given that you don’t require support for a streaming service other than either Qobuz and/or Tidal, then I don’t think Roon can be beat. It’s not cheap, but I believe it is worth it. Although you can run Roon on a Mac or PC, I strongly suggest investing in a dedicated Roon server like Roon’s Nucleus or from Small Green Computer (or if you are tech savvy enough building your own based on an Intel Nuc). The combo of something like a Nucleus or SGC Sonic Transporter paired with something like a Bricasti M5 fits nicely within your budget. Moreover, if you ever do move onward and upward to something else like a DCS Bartok, Roon could still remain as part of your desired infrastructure. Just my 2 or 3 cents.

Seems like you have the big names for your price range covered.  Since you like the Bluesound app I think a very natural progression would be the Aurender Conductor app.  At least it was for me.  But I’ll also tell you from experience, I think you maybe disappointed keeping the Yiggy and upgrading the streamer first.  Again, I was.  Yes there was a nice improvement when I upgraded my Node, but It wasn’t until I upgraded my DAC, which btw I did very quickly afterwards that I really heard the improvement I was hoping for.  YMMV, but I doubt it :-)

I have a Bartok w/o Apex.  It was excellent when I bought it and still is.  You can find the non Apex used.  The Apex improvement is in the analog output.  Some say it's nice but not critical.  I read some great things about the Mola-Mola Tambaqui.  Also available used now.

@dz13   I recently made the decision on the N200.  Its in FedEx's hands now and I will be receiving in early next week.  Stay tuned.....

@norust ​​​ and ​@jmfawdofile I'm in the same boat. I would really like to know what you (norust) think about the Aurender N200 as that is one I'm looking at closely. I don't think I want to buy Aurender used as they don't transfer warranties and I've read from posters that the service to authorized buyers is really good with many updates to the OS. 

I traded a nice integrated tube amp for a T+A 200 Dac which I haven't received yet (a week or two) and I want to have local storage as well as streaming. Right now I play from a PC through an ifi IDSD dac to the receiver so I think there may be quite a lot of improvement to a system I think sounds really great right now (because of the speakers and replacement integrated tube amp). 

So I would definitely like to hear how others like the Aurender or anything similar. 

Hi All,

Thanks for the may suggestions.  For the next step (in an always ongoing process), I am looking to keep my Yggy DAC and -- for now -- only looking to upgrade the streamer.  Again, the budget is $3k-$6k.  I have heard the openness and realism of the Bartok v1.  LOVED it.  But it is out of my budget -- even used.  

Seems like Bricasti, Lumin, Simaudio, Cambridge, Aurender, PS Audio and Auralic are what is being suggested (did I forget any?).  The BS app is excellent.  And that has spoiled me.  The DCS app is terrible. I have used Aurender app.  Not bad.  Any thoughts on the apps for these streamers?  

Now I have to go out and find these and listen!!

Joe

@jmfawdofile

There are very few audiophile streamer+DAC combos in a single box, so your choices are extremely limited. Most have separate streamers apart from the DAC.

Perhaps a used Bartok? Seems to be in the $10-13k range.  Another option is a used Linn DSM streamer+DAC.  I purchased a used Linn DSM/2 with the Organik DAC upgrade which is a sonic bargain - review here

Used Bricasti M3/w streaming card. Always available 3500-4,000 depending if you need a remote. 
Run it from the XLR outputs to take advantage of its true balanced design. 
I run an EtherRegen with an LHY OCK 2 clock and took it up a few mote notches. 
Stock it is big and open. Great customer support. 

Lumin has some very good options.  

Interesting thread. I have a Bryston BDP-1 and nothing but trouble. Mains transformer burned out. On the advice of Bryston USA sent it to the Bryston agents in the UK who's performance was pathetic and received it back months later in some tatty packaging with a scratch on the rear panel and internal ribbons not reseated properly. I eventually bought, at 1/3 the price quoted, a better transformer with electrostatic screen and GOSS band. It skips, often does not read USB drives, sometimes sluggish response and on and on it goes!

This is not a fight with Bryston USA, I have a mate with a Bryston amp that has had zero problems and that's Bryston's area of expertise, they are not a digital company. I would happily own a Bryston amp but never again one of their digital products. Also as many will testify, their control app is universally criticised yet they consistently refuse to employ a specialist who knows what he is doing to create something user friendly and modern, instead they plod along with a poorly performing 20 year old frustration!

Bryston BDP3 is good value and good SQ.

Software is dated

I have a pretty modest setup with Lumin, U1 Mini w/S-Booster off board power supply into a Line Magnetic, LM502ca Tube DAC & using an Audience, AU24 Digital Coax Cable to connect them. Also use an Ethernet commection to the Lumin. I've listened to combinations costing 3-4 times as much and prefer mine to most all. I run "RCA Clear Top" 12AU7s in the LM DAC too which replaced the old stock tubes. Incredible synergy with all these pieces and the rest of my main system. Just what I use - it's a highly satisfying digital end. 

Here is a MiND 2 player for $1300.00 used.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650016083-simaudio-moon-mind-2-network-playerstreamer/

+1 re Simaudio.  Friend of mine is replacing his Bartok with the new Moon 891 from the new North collection.  Way above your budget but couple of options are:

Mind 2 - $3,000 for streamer

280D - $3,900 for streamer/DAC

Their streaming platform is supposed to be quite good. 

My Cambridge Audio CXN 60 was an obvious upgrade from Bluesound at about twice the cost of BS.  It is also great with Chromecast and Internet Radio and Podcasts 

@jazzman7 : +1 on the Bricast M5 renderer. I have been using a general purpose Windows 10 PC as my ROON core>Uptone Etheregen>Bricasi M5>Exogal Comet Plus DAC for my digital front end.  The sound is so good  I've stopped spinning CDs. I look forward to getting a dedicated music server (like your Melco) when the funding is available. Goof listening. Jeff

I have the latest Schitt Yggi+ Less is More DAC. I used to have a Lumin X1, which has a great streamer, and a very good DAC. I found the latest Schitt Yggi+ LM better on top end than the X1 DAC with everything else about the same. The top end had more detail with the Yggi+ LM.

If I were to get a Lumin again it would be the new streamer they have from what seems like the X1.

I compared the X1 steamer to the Sonore Optical Rendu and the PlayBack Designs Streamer-IF. The Lumin and Sonore used fibre and the IF is using SPDIF for now. They all sounded great, with the X1 the loudest and fastest sounding and the Sonore maybe more refined sounding. The IF was in the middle which was surprising. To be able to compete using SPDIF was unexpected, though I think there is fibre inside the PBD box. I just got a second OpticalRendu to hookup my 4th ROON streaming endpoint ($700 used)

My takeaway is that using fibre optic levels the playing field for streaming. Analog noise cannot traverse glass (fibre cable). Something like the Bricasti mentioned above with the RJ45 streamer input is a non-starter for me. I would use one of my streamers with the Bricasti before using RJ45 streaming input.

I had an RJ45 streamer in my now sold KRELL k-300i integrated, my Sonore OpticalRendu was better than the RJ45 streaming input built into the KRELL. The RJ45 is super convenient as was the Lumin X1 with the better built-in fibre input.

The Lumin streamer has the LeedH volume control that also works with the X1s outputs, SPDIF and others. That means you could use the physical remote control, which is better than the PlayBack Designs and Sonore in 1 aspect of operation.

Just some random things I learned about streaming.

Getting a $6k streamer and connecting it to Schiit doesn’t make much sense.
I would sell the BS and Schiit and pick up a used Bricasti M1SE with latest MDX and a network card around $5k-$6K then use iPad with Mconnect app (I think it’s about $6 to buy from the app store) to stream from qobuz and tidal.

Or get a one box streamer/dac solution like the HiFi Rose, Lumin or Aurender.

+1 on Innuos...I have the Zen Mini/LPS and it's a great combo.  I upgraded from the BS NODE.

Hi, Thanks for all the suggestions.  I don't use ROON and I don't have any stored music files (or not many, and I never listen to them.)  I am strictly looking for a streamer.  I use Tidal, Qobuz and Idagio.  Looking to keep the budget in the 3-6 range.  I have the better Shunyata PCs (everywhere) and Shunyata digital cable b/w BS and Yggy.  

FYI: When I borrowed the Bartok, I spent a lot of time with the various settings and did not find it harsh. 

Curious to learn more about the TeddyPardo LPS upgrade.  

Thanks again to all.

Joe

Hard to beat Innuos in the 2-5K price range.  I admit I haven't bothered with Aurender since they don't do roon.

Jerry

@ OP Regarding suggestions on thread about a used Bartok, if the Bartok you auditioned was the current Apex model, the older Bartoks sound quite different - still very good but less analogue sounding than the Apex model.

I too have a Bluesound Node 2i connected to a PS Audio Directstream DAC Mk1,  and was looking for a better streamer.  The problem is the lack of support that the high end streamers have for streaming services.  The Bluesound app supports a much larger number of services.  I listen a lot to Idagio (classical music streaming), and Bluesound is the only app I have found that supports it.  Innuos says they are working on it,  but  aren't there yet.  So as an alternative,  I  upgraded the power supply in the Node 2i with a TeddyPardo LPS.  Seemed a little crazy to basically spend as much on the upgrade as the cost of the streamer,  but tried it anyway.  The result was significantly improved SQ!! Better bass, wider and deeper soundstage,  better separation of instruments. I  was really surprised.  There are some other LPS upgrade kits out there  (LHY) that are less expensive,  but I can't say they are as good as or better than the TeddyPardo.  Hopefully someday in the near future a high end streamer will have an app that supports all of the major streaming services,  and I can upgrade.  I'd love it PS Audio would do it with their Air Lens, since I have mostly PS Audio components. 

I bought the new PS Audio Air Lens Streamer to replace their Bridge II streamer and mated it to a PS Audio Direct Stream Mark 1 DAC and the improvement was fantastic. I'm very happy with the sound, detail, bass and easy operation.

Airlens: $1600 direct from PS Audio

Used DAC $2300 The Music Room

The lower priced streamers as well as the earlier units were hard to keep connected to the internet. PS Solved that problem with the AirLens.