I don’t think a new amp will help much at lower volumes. Some speakers work at low levels while others suffer. In my experience, high sensitivity designs tend to do much better at low volume. Working within your price range I’d consider the Klipsch Heresy IV used (HifiHeaven). If you sold your amps and speakers you’d be able to build a system around the H4’s and a modest integrated (you wont need much power so you can save budget with the 99db efficient Heresy). $1500 plus another $1200 or so from the S400 sale, would leave you about $500 for an integrated (Arcam, Creek, NAD, Roksan, Rotel, Rega, Yamaha etc.) after you get the Hersey. The H4 and Rega Brio for example since you are familar w Rega should be attainable.
looking for an integrated amp in the $1500 range
I need to downsize and will be selling my Aragon 4004 MKII and AVA Fet Valve Hybrid SL Preamplifier with Silver Face Plate and MM Phono.
The rest of system is Burchardt s 400 m1’s, Marantz TT 15s1, Rega M3 MM phono amp, Gustard x16 DAC. Wiim pro streamer. Sounds great mid to high level volume. Lower volume not so much so I want that quality at lower volume if possible. I’m considering Schitt RAGNAROK basic model or Rogue Sphinx 3. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with these or other suggestions. Thanks in advance.
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Agree with @perkadin that if you’re looking for better low-level listening you’re better off with higher-sensitivity speakers, and they don’t need to be floorstanders. Speakers that are easier to drive tend to open up easier at lower volume levels, and I highly doubt you’re gonna find what you’re looking for driving your speakers with a $1500 amp. Put another way and more directly, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here in terms of what you’re looking for. I’m no expert in high-sensitivity, easy-to-drive speakers from the likes of Klipsch, horn speakers, etc., but I’d be looking there first, and it’d also open up more options for an integrated amp as you wouldn’t need nearly as much power. Just my $0.02 FWIW, and best of luck. |
"Lower volume not so much" How low? Do you think you may be in the low volume region whereby some Bass Boost is needed (by all of us)? Fletcher-Munson analysis, and solutions exist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour In the old days, all receivers and all preamps had a ’loudness’ filter, which was actually a ’low volume compensation filter’, based on Fletcher Munson curves, boosting bass progressively as volume lowered (also boosted highs, but bass is more important). One way to add Fletcher Munson curve to a system without it is this Chase Remote Line Controller RLC-1 it starts at a default volume with no F-M compensation. As you lower the volume below default, it automatically and progressively implements F-M bass boost, in relation to the reduced volume. Essentially ALL Preamps/Amps need this (modern equipment lacks ’loudness’ filters), and all speakers need to receive boosted bass signals at low volume. Therefore, different speakers will not solve the problem, different integrated amp will not solve the problem. Add a gizmo? No one, none of my friends, including myself are able to detect whether the Chase unit is in or out of my system.
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@stereo5 Wrote:
I agree! 😎 Mike |
I have always adored the sound of my Musical Fidelity A1 (2008) version Class A integrated. But it does run HOT. I listen with Reference 3A DeCapo I speakers, 90 db and no crossover, the midwoofer rolls off naturally so just a high pass cap on the tweeter. If the new $1600 msrp Musical Fidelity A1 sounds as good as my 2008 version, I think you would love it.
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Probably a step down in a few ways, and you'd be buying an internal DAC and Phono Stage, that you already have, but.. The Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated is a nice class D Integrated. What makes it great for low-level listening is it's feature-ridden, back-lit, remote. From the remote you can adjust bass, treble and sub levels, turn sub off/on (great for placement testing) and you can return to flat levels at the touch of one button. I've driven B&W 606 s2 Anniversary editions and Kef R30's with great results..at normal and low levels. Much of my listening is at low level and I've really enjoyed this little integrated. I had separates before and downsizing pushed me to look at Integrated. No regrets! They run in the $1,200 to $1,300 range, new. |
I totally understand where you are coming from, selling can be a hassle. But the truth is low level listening has much more to do with the speaker, its impedance curve and its sensitivity, then the amplifier’s characteristics. You already have a very beefy amp which is more then capable of driving your speakers, so if that amp doesn’t do it for you at low volumes, a $1,500 integrated will likely be a downgrade. Plus as I mentioned, high sensitivity speakers may cost a bit more up front, but you can easily get away with a lower cost integrated. True high sensitivity designs tend to be large to compensate for the bass tradeoff, the Heresy is among the smallest that I know of with a true high 90’s sensitivity. Honestly from a floor space perspective it doesn’t take up much more room then a stand mounted speaker. Are you placing these on a cabinet or shelf? If not I’d seriously consider them, they are awesome. Many people actually place them on stands. I’ve even been to a bar that had some old versions wall mounted. The sound was incredible. I have the Forte IV’s myself and they’ll never leave. Another way to achieve high sensitivity without a huge box is to get rid of the crossover and use a full range driver. Zu Audio has a few designs like this and they do make a bookshelf, though its a rather large bookshelf. Check out the Zu DWX. I have no personal experience with the DWX though. Others may be able to chime in. |
I found that low level listening was best done with super quiet gear. I had a lot of success with Benchmark AHB2 and LA4 preamp for that type of listening. Music details at low volume are not obscured by noisy gear. Now if you want to skip the low level requirement but in the same physical space. Get a RAAL SR1a earphone and have 2 channel sound at any volume level in your space. I listen to the SR1a or CA-1a (not 2-channel sound) late at night, such as right now, when everyone is sleeping. Listening to Led Zeppelin now and it is as loud as I want it. I am using a Schitt Aegir amp for this ($800). |
Higher sensitivity speakers. Will make the biggest difference, especially if your looking for a $1500 integrated to fix your problem. Your 400's are rated at 87db, which means they are probably along the lines of 85db. I've never heard your 400's but with those specs I would imagine you need to turn it up a little to hear all the details, dynamics, and bass on the same level. Lower the volume and you are missing a couple quality's of the loudly played music. If what I'm describing is the issue you are having then I think you should look for higher sensitivity speakers. If what I described is not really a problem for you then spend your money elsewhere. Good luck
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Call underwood Wally , the Audio GD line has very good value ,and Walter owns the Peach tree Audio line and May Ave something close to your budget if you can stretch to around $2k it would be much more feasible and much higher quality parts. You dont want a $20 Alps volume pot it robs resolution . a relay controlled ,or resistive ladder is much better. |
I had a Rogue Sphinx 3 paired with multiple speakers. I loved the hybrid design and thought it sounded quite good. While traveling for work I got a Peachtree Decco integrated. I was amazed at how good low volume sounded. It was a small apartment with low celings unlike my home. I ended up upgrading to the Rogue Cronus Mangnum III. Low volume is a dream but out of tour price range. I would look at the Sphinx and compare with a Peachtree. TMR usually has both used for under $1500. Good luck. |
I have had Heresy’s since I was 18, now with my big brothers 74’s rebuilt. Love them, then added Omega crossoverless single drivers, love them more. Listen to alot of low level ambient and to 85db jazz and blues mand more. I have the Omega JR XRS towers, small footprint and beautiful cabinets. Louis has several nice standmounts as well. |
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I had the S400 mk II speakers, which are rated at 87 dB, in my bedroom. During low-level listening sessions at around 45 dB at night, I found that, with well-recorded music, I could discern articulated bass notes and open, airy treble without any difficulty. To maximize my listening enjoyment, I would activate the preset EQ in Foobar2000, adjusting the SPL to match a spectrum of multiband frequencies according to F-M-based equalized loudness curves (as described below). It’s important to note that if the resulting dB levels at certain frequencies approach the distortion threshold, it’s advisable to lower the entire spectrum of dB levels by the same amount.
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It seems you have a pretty nice setup now; one thing that can negatively affect low volume playback is if your analog volume potentiometer (I think the AVA has an Alps Blue in it) is very low to the left - meaning below 9 or 8am on the dial. That would mean the audio is running through a lot of the carbon resistance track on the potentiometer and potentially losing dynamics on the way. The newer AVAs have a "low gain" button, that should give you more range on the volume control and better sound at lower volumes. You could test this with your DAC, if you can control its output. Set its output to very low so you have to turn your volume on the AVA pre way up and see if you get better sound. If you get an integrated, I would think getting one with a digital style volume control (with a resistor relay ladder like on the RAGNAROK or equivalent) would do better at high attenuation than the Alps Blue. My son had the same problem as you, with a lower budget than yours and he has high sensitivity (94dB) speakers with an older amp and an analog volume pot that he could not turn up past 8am on the dial and his sound suffered. We tried an Arcam SA-10 and it was night and day. He was amazed at the difference in low level listening from the Arcam. The Arcam's, the Creek Evos, Audiolab, etc have the volume control in a chip - something you might want to look into. |
This is a general answer because there were so many good suggestions that I’m still working through them all. But I’d like to point out as a member for some years now, and as it may be for others, I sometimes forget how generous and well informed the members are. But as the suggestions I’ve received show, what a great group. Thanks to all. |
”Find a vintage Sansui, AU-9500... best integrated I've heard at the $1500 price point. ” For speakers that aren’t real hard to drive I totally agree! Wonderful sounding unit and build like brick s..t house. Seems you get a lot for your money on used Musical Fidelity integrated. My A1008 I sold I could only get $1,200 for and it’s a 6k unit new. Bags of power and really great clean dynamic sound with a little warmth. |
For a $1500 or under integrated you need a Willsenton R8. It gives you the option of either 4 EL34’s or 4 KT88’s. You can swap all different types of tubes and various 6SN7 tubes. Tube combinations will drive your system to sublime levels. You won’t miss the 4004. All for less than $1500. Available at Amazon or directly from the manufacturer for a bit less, and delivered in less than 10 days. But of course the return option via Amazon has its advantages if you don’t like it. But I believe it’s the perfect budget integrated with all the power anyone needs. See all of the videos on YouTube. |
