Used Klipsch Heresy
Kef LS50s - great like me but need to come up for air
So over the years I've really enjoyed my primary speaker the Kef LS50s. They work well in my current setup: Schiit Aegir, NAD preamp (class A) in a small room (11'x14').
Maybe I like them so much because they are very much like me: precise, balanced, neutral but not overly. Contrary to many they are more on the warm than bright side. You just need to know how to place them and match them to the right components. Like me :)
However, l've gone through a change. I need to and been told by my wife and doctors that I need to relax some and come up for air. I've been working on this for the past 2 years. Now I've seriously realized my beloved music system has come to the same change point.
Like me and my ears I'd like to find a speaker with the same basic qualities of the LS50s but that can come up for air - call it more relaxed, warm...whatever. Those in the know will know what I mean. I can explain this more if necessary.
My budget is up to 1,500.00...I've online researched Harbeths, Dynaudio Evoke 20, Usher, Spendor but don't really know where to go from here. I've thought about higher sensitivity speakers but most quality speakers are physically too large (maybe).
Any input is appreciated.
59 responses Add your response
@mapman - That's The Music Room... |
Wow..thanks everyone for the responses. I have some options to look into. rego has a good question that highlights my quest - the ls50s are ever so slightly toed in...5 to 10 degrees at most. However, I'm pretty sure I'm getting their best which I said before is great. I really spent a lot of time with the best placement. But my age, ears, preferences are changing for good measure. I'm older...I don't necessary prefer the sharp, focused, ferrai sports with body hugging seats...now I prefer to go slower, take turns easy, have a smoke and enjoy the scenery when I'm driving. I still prefer quality though. Maybe the best Jaguar for post middle aged male. Hope this makes sense. It does to me. |
touche tony1954. I won't end up there but I will have fun along the way! So far the Heresy, Dynaudio Evoke 40 or maybe Evoke 20 and the small Harbeths look appealing. I'm leaning towards Dynaudio just by online research. The Usher looks too expensive and the Vandersteen is just too big. I do care a little about room aesthetics. Can anyone comment on the sound of the Heresy, they look interesting and I like the retro look. The Harbeths have a lot of reviews but mainly for near field??? My listening position is about 7 feet away from the LS50s. Again...thanks everyone for the input. Any other speakers I should consider.
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I know you said you wanted to stay at $1500, but I got a pair of Alta Audio Rhea's on Ebay for $2500 to replace my LS50's and it was just what the doctor ordered: more relaxed but still great imaging and detail. And 10 or 15 hz more bass response. I had spent a lot of time and money on room treatments and tube gear to try to tame the LS50's, which always annoyed my aging ears. I wanted exactly what you say you want, and I got it. |
Look for a used pair of used Reynaud Twin MK II's (currently listed in the $500-$850 range).
I ran a pair in a much larger room with a 300B DH/SET amp (figure 7 usable watts, or so).
The $500 pair listed on USaudiomart are indeed the MkII version (emailed the seller earlier today) and I suspect that they are my old speakers due to pics of the minor corner damage/blemish.
DeKay |
LMartinez, It sounds like you are looking for bigger cabinets for a fuller sound. I'm concerned that you might be disappointed with a more laid back speaker. Have you considered Focal? Focals typically have good balanced sound and should match well with your NAD. Chora 806 is $1k or Aria K2 906 is $2k. Might be worth a listen. Good luck in the search! |
My 2 cents: Dynaudio strikes a good balance between detail and warmth so if you were to take the great things about KEF (detail) plus Harbeth (warmth) and combine them together you'd get Dynaudio sound. Seems like the most logical choice IMO but logic isn't enough in this hobby, best to audition both speakers at home if you can. |
Another vote for harbeths. Maybe there is a better answer, but I don’t think there is any way you cannot listen to p3esr in trying to find bliss in this configuration. I have with aegir in nearfield, and they make me happy. I do have two small subs to fill out bottom a bit, but most of the time I hardly notice them. |
Look for a pair of EPOS Epic 2- efficient 4 ohm speakers that are v v v hard to beat ALSO- a pair of Elac 2.0B6.2 designed by Andrew Jones and the very Best Buy on the planet- but they need at least 80 watts/
with either of the above you can spend v little and get a v easy to listen to speakers. I have both ! |
My LS50 Metas were very sensitive to placement and were useless in the middle of the room compared to vintage Concords and Celestes (bad placement I know I know). They’re banished to the garage where ironically they sound fab and live next to ESL57s so I can switch between the two depending on mood/ music.
Was talking to a retired BBC engineer and interestingly he asked if I prefered the old KEFS to the Quads and I have to agree the old girls (made late 60’s?) are still rocking and are so easy to listen to but obviously not a small speaker (2ftx 1.5ft) |
The LS50s are a very well balanced speaker (albeit a revealing one) and you might find that changing them leaves you missing aspects of the sound that you traded for a different balance in an alternative speaker. However, if you definitely want to change, any of the classic BBC designs should work. If you have room for a floorstander, a used pair of ProAc Response 2.5s could also be considered - quite BBC-like in their balance (not quite as smooth in the upper midange) but with much more extended bass. |
Tough call.....I'd borrow a set of LS50 Metras if you can. If you think the LS50 are good, but need a bit of "something".....I bet the Metas would satisfy that "Thing". There are only three speakers in the last 50 years of playing with this stuff that totally blew me away...Dahlquist DQ10, Any Magnapan....KEF LS50 Metas.....PERIOD! |
I have LS-50s as my primary speakers. the 'body-hugging Ferrari sports seat' analogy is not far off. If your room placement can accommodate them, the Magnepan .7 is everything you are asking for. and will not leave you feel like you have compromised. With lesser box speakers than the LS-50 (and that's most all of them) you will rapidly become annoyed with box colorations that simply don't exist with the LS-50 or the Maggie .7s. The .7s, on the other hand, will provide you a transparent and large window that is a very different, but equally enjoyable, listening experience. If your NAD amp will drive the LS-50s to your satisfaction, it will handle the ,7s as well. My second recommendation, only if placement limitations preclude using the Maggies, would be the KEF R3. Think of that as the luxury GT version of the uncompromised sports car that is the LS-50. A little bigger, a little softer, but definitely cut from the same cloth. And in this case with another 1/2 octave or so of quite noticeable bass. A warmer, more forgiving speaker than the LS-50, for sure. And I have to laugh at the Heresy recommendation. The most gawdawful speaker I've ever heard, No low bass, squawky,honky mids and harsh tweeters. Yes, they are efficient, and yes a good tube amp can tame them to some extent. I've always wanted to like them for their dynamics, but in 50 years of listening to several versions of them, on all kinds of amps, SS and tube, I've never heard them sound even good. The only Klipschs I've heard sound good sound were far bigger and in a very large room. That seemst to be their place. |
you definitely do NOT EVER want to put vandersteen anythings in any room that small, 11 x 14 is way too small for those speakers to sound as their designer intended, you will hear shoutiness at the crossover point @ 2.8 kilocycles. i learned this the hard way. those speakers are meant for a substantially larger room, like twice the size, at which point the shoutiness goes away and the magical imaging [with real depth] happens. a speaker i've used for many years now, the thiel cs.5, OTOH works very well in that size [11 x 14] of listening room, and unlike their bigger thiel brothers, these speakers are mellow yet still reveal details in the treble range that lesser speakers [including the aforementioned vandys] gloss over. |
Hello, I like all of the ideas above. I am wondering if you can accomplish your goal with some different speaker wire. I am going to suggest Straightwire speaker cables. Also, you might want to look into the power cables. Straightwire has a Grey Lightning or Black Thunder power cable that won’t break the bank but really optimizes your gear. A different approach than changing from the LS50 to Harbeth speakers. I hope this helps. |
Not to change the subject, but if you really like the LS50's I would suggest trying a higher powered amplifier with your set up. I have LS50's and love them, but they are thirsty speakers. I listen at low volumes, but still feel that a higher powered amp is better able to deliver on their demands, especially when the impedance dips. I also have Schiit products, preamp and DAC, and love them, so nothing against the Aegir but at 20W it is well below the 40-100W recommended by Kef for these speakers. As I have improved my amplification, to use an audiophile term, the 'ease' of music delivery has only improved. |
For something completely different, keep an eye out for a pair of Ohm Microwalsh or 100 or 1000 speakers. You can always order new but seems Ohm is very backlogged of late so likely a wait there. Not easy to find used these days but worth the hunt.
FWIW Kef ls50 metas and Ohm Walsh speakers are my two keepers these days. Two totally different but high quality windows into the music. ls50 metas for absolute performance (within their limits of bass extension and absolute SPL) and Ohm for overall musicality and performance. Both will reward power, current and quality amplification. |
This is great. There are some really thoughtful options offered here that are really promising. Thanks everyone for taking the time to contribute. Knowing that are multiple viable ways to go I want to share with you what I'm thinking and the best way to do this is too stick with the ferrari / jaguar analogy as this is my compass. Which takes me first to the bigger box option (Kef r3 or Dynaudio 20,30, or 40). They are in my price range and I can see how a little rolling off the top freq and solid\wider lows would give me a different experience. The soundstage I think might even be somewhat wider. Staying in the Kef line plays it safe as I get a modified ferri (toned down). Motorcyle manufacturers do this all the time. However going to the Dynaudio definitely guarantees a different experience. I move from a ferrari to a jaguar...big move. Would I miss some of the Kef's accuracy and precision? I don't know. Right now I'm leaning towards a Dynaudio. What I also found is a viable option is a sub! Thanks for all who mentioned this option. Your points are well taken. However I would still be in the Kef line and have a modified ferrari. Again would this be too safe of a move? Rather can I get some of the same characteristics of the Kef ls50s with a Dynaudio or other and also include a sub. With either decision Kef R3 or Dynaudio I'm still going to give a sub a try. Thanks Turnbrown and others for this suggestion. As far as amps I think I have those covered if I go with the Dynaudio...I have the NAD 326bee (class AB) and a Mcintosh MA6200. As far a responding to a couple of other thoughts. Concerning - the Harbeth, I just fear it will be too soft\laid back from what I've read. I'm not a grandfather yet and not ready for the sporty Cadillac. But again who knows? Concerning the Aegir and Kef Ls50 - I think a lot folks discount Class A because of the heat and low watts. Yes there is some heat but the constant flow of current to these speakers does something special. I tried it and just like others who have experienced the pairing of the Aegir and Kef LS50s it is very, very good. Especially if you have a good preamp. So, I again I truly appreciative of all the input. I also think my car analogy is helping guide me to this decision. I'm going to try a Dynaudio 20, 30 or 40 and with a sub a little later down the road.
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Try a used pair of Klipsch Heresy or even Forte- they're relaxed, open, dynamic and super easy to drive. I've owned many Harbeth and some of the others you mention and I own a pair of KEF LS50 wireless too. I agree, all of these are "good" speakers but for a different almost fun sound the Klipsch may do the trick. |
Seeing as you love the LS50s, you could try
Each of these has some big benefits and would result a potential meaningful change without ditching the KEFs. If you want to replace the KEFs, there are great example suggestions above. I loved the LS50s, but I preferred the Wharfedale Linton Heritage more--yet it is undisputed the KEFs had more detail and were a more advanced design. The Wharfedale are super musical and smooth. I love the suggestion on Heresy. If you could swing it a used Forte III (likely in the $2K range, they would sound super in that room size and you might not ever want a sub. Heresy IVs are supposed to be spectacular. I haven't heard those. Disclaimer: I moved into sampling and keeping horns about 3-4 years ago. So I like them. The power and clarity (AT LOW VOLUMES) with that Schitt into a Heresy or Forte would show you a relaxed big audio picture. They are so efficient that things should open up to your ear. Enjoy your journey! You are in a fun spot. My recommendation is to have some fun if you have the time and patience. Sometimes we just need to try things out for ourselves. It can be super fun, but also stressful so keep us posted!
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I've heard the Epos, the Dynaudio, the Harbeth 3/5 and Usher.
My vote actually goes to ProAc Response 1 speakers. If floorstand is OK, perhaps an audition of the PMC twenty5.23, not a big floorstander and the sound quality is really nice.
If budget allows, I can recommend the Sonus Faber Electa Amator bookshelf with a matching Sonus Faber sub.
Let us know what you have decided later. :-) |
How about the new KLH 5 recently reviewed by Stereophile? I think they're $2000 for the pair, not too big & if they are basically a modern version of the classic KLH/ AR / Advent sound, might be just what you want. Smooth, laid back w/ excellent bass. IMO, acoustic suspension bass design, if properly done, can yield the most realistic, tight, clean & extended response of all designs especially now w/ modern drivers & crossover components. Lack of efficiency is their only issue. Some very expensive speakers today utilize it, new Magico's, YG Acoustics etc. KLH is also coming out w/ a smaller, two way version, very soon. |
