He says he's not a doctor I think he's an idiot!
Jay's "Ugly Truth" video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkveZGS2dSI
Why does this get mentioned so rarely?
I've experienced the "dark side" and have never had the means to afford gear that's remotely close to the level that Jay focuses on.
What about you -- can you relate or have you always been able to maintain a healthy balance and avoid being overtaken by obsession?
73 responses Add your response
Of course becoming obsessed with anything to the extent that it damages your relationship with your family is a problem. I’m glad that Jay has realized that audio has become a problem for him and I applaud him for telling us in case someone else is in the same position. I don’t think this is a common problem, though. There are much worse obsessions that one can develop, alcohol, drugs, gambling, cheating on your spouse, etc. I think that audio is not a particularly common or dangerous potential obsession, but it can be for some and those people should listen to what Jay is saying.. |
With all due respect, aversion to Jay’s personality is not the point. I’ve never found him appealing. Nevertheless, I think the topic he raises is a worthwhile one. For certain personality types, the pursuit of the "Absolute Sound", "Audio Nirvana", or whatever you want to call it can quickly devolve into an all-consuming perfectionism. Thanks for sticking to the topic. I haven’t know enough audiophiles to have an opinion re: it’s common or uncommon but I’ve found myself straying into the "obsession zone" and have known others who have as well.
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Jay struck me as a very honest person...Once this is said... He did not know at first that marketing make people forget that audio is about learning synergy and learning acoustic and mechanical and electrical embeddings controls FIRST not about buying spree... Anyway he cannot analyse this objectively because he decided to become a reviewer then he decided to sell products... If you sell something the focus must be the product "perfections" not the embeddings and acoustic controls... The focus is purchasing and selling not thinking... And audio is about the best ratio S.Q. /price for most people anyway not about the best in the absolute... Because Jay is honest and very conscious he decided to face this obsession or OCD in audio... Myself i cured it by me experiments with only homemade creative low cost solutions... It worked ... And my S.Q. is the best there is for the price...😊
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Sorry mate but I don’t drink any of his KoolAid with his overblown exaggeration and misguided hyperbole at best. . These is just another lame YouTube blogger airing his own obsession sufferings in the public forum for unknown personal reasons . . Yep… they DO walk among us . To suggest that progressive audio equipment outlay or striving to an ascending wish list to recreate a better “perfection” audition performance, is a harbinger for a dark “obsession”, or an impairment risk to one’s personal life and marriage , is ridiculous. Only a moron could or would succumb . Our forum common bespoke indulgence is just a a simple esoteric hobby to best enjoy the music performing arts as best as we can. A fine system can stir the heart and trigger an emotional response. A better performing system can do it better. MY TAKE: If one’s circumstances permit this music appreciation to indulge into an oxygen-breather’s equipment/ system strata in …. Bravo ! Carry on , sir! It’s worth it WARREN BUFFETT
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Jay is describing someone with an addictive personality. If it's not stereo, it will be something else. And OCD is a problem that has nothing in particular to do with stereo equipment. Did I leave the iron on? Did I leave the stove on? One thing I did take away from this video is confirmation I have a fantastic wife. She loves to look at the stereo but doesn't care about operating it. She likes music, but It' not a big part of her life. She's never once asked how much I have spent. But she loves to spend 2 hours every night sitting and listening to music with me. She may be playing Word on her laptop while I sit in the PLP with my eyes closed, but she routinely says "I really liked that last disc you played. Who was it? Do you have any more of his/her music" So thanks for reminding me what a lucky guy I am Jay. |
@bigtwin You should have used @bigwin for you name |
@yyzsantabarbara 🤣🤣🤣 |
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I'm a bit skeptical about this YouTuber for some of the reasons/impressions listed here. That said, he's right when he says that making this video goes against his own channel's "brand." So, he gets points for that. Something about the OCD label does describe some things I have gone through and have now pulled back from. So, points for that, too. For those here actively hating on him, I'm not sure where the anger/passion comes from. Perhaps he struck a nerve? Otherwise, why so heated? I'm with @mahgister about seeking sound quality with every tool possible, and I think he's right about the many ways that can be accomplished without the consumerism and expense endemic to this hobby. |
He has an ego as Big as East coast to the West, I owned a Audio store he many be right on many things but not all Gryphon makes great gear but his $75k 450 lb Amp just may be a bit excessive for 95% of all living rooms . he likes to brag ,this shows how he is unhappy in other areas and have to have in excess to exhibit to the world 🌍 it’s called having a balanced life. I don’t envy him , I don’t think his absolutes hold much water what impresses me much more is to build a Audio system for much less to be. At 90% + of these giant type systems. |
I have had a couple of one on one interactions with Jay and found that he gave me great advice. He stayed within my budget, gave me both pro's and con's about the direction I was headed in and was able to connect with a fantastic deal on a component I was interested in purchasing. He actually recommended product based on what I like to listen to and had demoed. I can see how people would take him as over the top; however, I try not to confuse that with his passion for music. |
+100 @mahgister You captured it succinctly and perfectly. I do spend considerably more money on equipment than mahgister does but I still spent way more on the room itself than the equipment. |
I have been an Audiophile and Audio store owner now semi retired . I had 6 figure audio systems but, it proves Nothing , system synergies Is much more important .when I was younger I would buy many products in the A or B catagory but sometimes hit or miss results . Sometimes you can spend 60% less and get better harmony ,that’s why now I loook to find quality products and like Loudspeakers the weak link is the Xover in the vast majority of Loudspeakers even in $50-even $100k speakers I have seen parts that are good but not be far superior which for that price they should be , This guy has Wilson speakers they build a good product but for sure their capacitors ,they bought Rel caps they are not even close to the best - foil capacitors are far more linear and better conductors then most caps that have a sprayed particle conductor , land resistors they use $10; resistors or less the best I personally use Path audio, or the Mundorf Ultra with a heat sink ,best 2 I have used that are available , the Xover is the ♥️ and 🧠 of all loudspeakers . Tony Gee is a Great Loudspeaker builder , for decades ,his capacitir cook book is over 95% accurate Humble homemade Hifi capacitor test just check it out Duelund are the best but big and very $$ costly I use their smaller ones as bypsss caps on all the Tweeters in Xovers I rebuild , and the Loudspeaker purifiers I have been building ,mainly to Europe and Asian markets for they are very picky and know quality parts. That being said Quaity counts ,rule of thumb still applies 25% or less go into the total , Loudspeakers as well as electronics at most including packaging , the rest goes to R&D overhead and markup. Most Loudspeaker mfg never spend 1,000s of hours like Tony Gee , I have over 10,000 hours at least in listening comparing parts quality over the last 20 years , most companies find something that sound decent and that’s it , they are not trying to get to Bentley best of everything quality it’s about $$ making monies 1st and for most . I got hung up on by Allen Shaw of Harbeth when I had my store in the U.K when I called him out for using Taiwan gum drop capacitors , when u.k clarity caps were in the same country, since then he now uses better quality parts ,still not high quality but pretty decent. marten Logan I called their engineers and told them what are you thinking ,in their $85k flagship using mid grade white Mundorf Evo capacitors which are not expensive whatsoever ever Mundorfs Black Superior line are their top quality, the Silver oils sound good ,and silver gold oil Supreme caps , just look at their website many companies won’t even show you the Xover , it baffles me why even in $30k speakers they are using midline rating around 9 out of 15 Mundorf Evo white caps and $3 -$10resistors . It’s $$ before quality . Thsts why when I buy a very good speaker I always pull a driver and look to see what upgrades I will do .I purchased a Dynaudio Contour floor stander and put in $1600 just in parts labor would be another $1k I use only foil capacitors with zduelund foil bypass caps and path audio resistors, the inductors were the very good Jantzen open core which came stock . you are talking a solid 10-15% increase in fidelity which is a great investment most don’t even know this though.just a heads up look inside |
@jasonbourne71 Wrote:
Good one! Mike |
While I agree with @bigtwin and @mfili35 that if one has a tendency towards OCD, any hobby can bring this out, I don’t agree that every hobby emphasizes "upgrading" or "taking things to the nth degree" to the same extent as audio. Furthermore, it’s simply not true that one is either a full-blown OCD case or entirely free from any vulnerability to being overtaken by consumerism. Such black and white thinking does not describe reality. Focusing upon Jay himself is a handy way to 1) avoid actually looking at the issue, (as is lumping all you tubers into one basket and rejecting them) and 2) assert one’s own perceived immunity from psychological issues. And while I'll agree that Jay can come across as self-important, his demeanor in this video is quite different. In retrospect, I shouldn’t have mentioned Jay at all, as it proves an "easy out" for those who do not want to actually engage with the topic. "Live and learn" as the saying goes.
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+1 @stuartk Well said. The other thing about audio is there is an alternative to being OCD and upgrading. One can change laterally. Different sounds, different flavors. Like a guitarist who has multiple axes or who changes them, or a person who tries different restaurants or types of cuisine. There is a mania that says that "better" is the goal. But why not different? "Different" helps satisfy what may be the driving desire -- for variation. Of course, the logic of the mainstream economic system is always "more" and "better" rather than "other" and "different," but it’s hard to get the average person unshackled from that false-consciousness. And it is a shame. Diversity is our friend. |
The obsessional side has got nothing to do with cost, or ones aspiration to own much more costlier Audio Devices, the Commercial Sector Marketing Strategy has a great influence and is quite capable of a generating a Undertow of an individuals emotions. Each individual has a threshold as a cap on their spending, each individual is met with a line in their spending they can’t really step over. When the idea of owning something threatens ones security, especially impacting substantially on other areas of necessary funding to take part in general daily living, there is quite obviously something amiss. Again each individual will have to be honest with themselves on the harm a obsessional and uncontrolled spending regime is having on their security, their families security and the mental health of all being impacted on. Obviously there are fewer individuals who have the disposable income or savings to consider being serious customers for mega buck purchases, which is the type of clientele Jay entertains. What really matters is that the idea of owning Audio is not able to be an influence where it becomes an all consuming force on ones mindset and the indulgence in having Audio at hand is not responsible for causing serious financial impact in other areas of ones life. I to date as a result of a overhaul to my way of thinking about Audio Equipment, have as an end product been able to remain loyal to most purchases and certainly have not felt they are failing in any way. My Audio Equipment and Collection of Music have cost approx’ £70 - 80K over 40 Years. Again Approx’ £2K a year on average, on a Hobby that has been very enjoyable and rewarding. I found my own way out of being obsessional about Audio Equipment. More than 15 years past, I enforced myself to cut my ties with using audio equipment personally. During the Hiatus, I took on a different approach to Audio and become more social around the hobby. Having developed a new outlook on Audio, which has become based on being a participant in social get togethers, I took the decision and returned to using the home audio system. It was not long before I become convinced my earlier attitudes that had developed were quite shallow. All the energy being wasted on fantastical BS about equipment, was no longer a desirable attraction. The change made was the best experience ever. I may have seen the content within a commercial magazine about 5 times in the past 15+ years. The resulting change off mindset, really did prove to be the Corner stone that enabled the Joys of experiencing Replaying Music Recordings with the Tools required to achieve this to be be totally fulfilling as a form of entertainment. It is Interesting how the idea of exchanging the Tools to replay recordings become of very little importance over a short period of time. Having had nearly 20 Years of a different mindset, I only see the use of Audio Equipment as a means to create a social gathering and share in the Joys of listening to recordings as group activity. Each has their own experiences, desires to have a different experience and ultimately a story to tell.
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Exactly. You hit the nail on the head in a few well chosen words. I salute your honesty and self-awareness. And as I see it, this is exactly what Jay is underscoring.
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I was in heaven with my AKG K340 and my Sansui alpha... But being an audiophile i decided even if i was completely happy to order an amplifier i dreamed about for years... nevermind his brand name, it is not the subject here... It takes 20 minutes to decide to return it... One of the most well reviewed tube amplifier for headphone in the world....Versus a 35 years headphone out of a S.S. amplifier... I was satisfied with my system Sansui anyway because on all acoustic counts all was perfect for me... I lost 400 US dollars in postal fees, insurance, customs fees... I am let with nothing because i did not listen to my acoustic knowledge but to my curiosity of audiophile ...😊 Upgrading is stupid half the time... Especially when you understand what are the acoustic meanings behind audio experience by learning experiments as i did... Call this an "error" caused by a slight OCD in audio.... The same obsession that guided me through one year full time acoustic experiments ... But doing this i learned something in acoustic... What did i learn with my "upgrade" ? I learn that it is acoustic experience and synergy that define what is a good sound first, not marketing or price tag... I will never upgrade my amp. nor my headphone... Not even my small optimized active speakers box, because for the price after modifications i hit the jackpot, with my modifications they sound at their optimal level...They did not compare with their sound right out of the box... Now how it will cost for me for a real upgrade of all my system ? 10,000 bucks minimum ...For a 700 bucks system.... I will listen music and i will forgot upgrading... 😁 And i dont say it because my sound is average... It is not.... It is more than good in the ratio S.Q. /price... Music is the only cure for sound obsession... Buy music...Or buy books... I never regret the cost of all my books reading and music listenings ...And it is way over my audio cost... it was the cost of a house... 😊 OCD in science, philosophy, meditation, martial arts, books, gardening, art etc can be enlightening and helping in a way ... But buying gear by obsession is preposterous if you dont have the money to begin with... Most people dont... And those who have the money anyway dont even bother to study and experiment with acoustic, they really think that they dont need to... I remember the sound of Jay room few years ago.... It was bad ... With gear of price tag near my first house price...Very bad... Musical has nothing to do with "details"....I had more details with the tube amp. i returned on the spot than with my Sansui by the way ... Lesson learned... |
I thought the video was pretty good, although I did skim through some of it. I’ve never watched any of his other ones. Being of an addictive nature anyway, I do have to remind myself on and off that it’s about the music for one and two, it’s supposed to be a hobby to play with and tweak my system (as I have an electronics background, in high end audio). I can relate to laying down to go to sleep at night sometimes, and still reading on my phone about the next good parts I need to buy, or interconnect cable, etc., etc. Fortunately, I’m retired now and don’t have kids in the house. My wife works a few nights a week so I get to have time in front of the stereo without any problems and fortunately she understands my love for it. I remember as my kids were growing up I pretty much set all of my audio needs to the side and rarely listened to the system. |
I try to balance consumption-based hobbies, like audiophilia, with creation-based hobbies, like woodworking. Usually the remedy for obsession and burn out in one is picking the other back up. The cycles usually last several months, and there's always something to do. Our time on this planet is short and I see no harm in being obsessed with things that bring joy and a sense of personal enrichment--within reason. If you're not stealing from your kids' plates and futures, neglecting your wife, and mortgaging your house for audio equipment that costs more than it, knock yourself out. If you are, stop. |
Never been able to truly enjoy overspending. It's like somethings telling me Im.oit of line. I appreciate seeing a carefully cobbled together system that punches above it's weight. Many of the virtual systems here reflect a well thought out process leading to an enjoyable experience to the user. Have often thought how nice it would be to take a tour from system to system and appreciate the myriad results music lovers have achieved. As far as going down the rabbit hole some care should be taken. |
I will repeat something that is not obvious for most... The audio engineering vocabulary and concepts are not the acoustic and psycho-acoustic vocabulary and concepts and neither of those are the musical vocabulary and concepts ...We had three musketeers here who are four really because psycho-acoustics is not reducible to physical acoustics... The word "details" here will mean three different aspect of the potential experience of perceived "details"... It will be the same for the word "musical" with three different meanings and experiences ... And it is the same trichotomy for any other concepts... Then it is not purchasing an upgrade that will teach you how to distinguish and relate this three different conceptual perspectives , it will be the task to optimize and study the mechanical,electrical and acoustical embeddings of any gear you already own in their rightful optimal synergetical working dimensions... Audiophile experience means learning how to make converge these three (four) conceptual perspectives in ONE meaningful experience... This had nothing to do with buying 40 amplifiers, 40 dacs, and forty pair of speakers... Musicians and acousticians upgrade less...😁😊 Why ? They care less about the brand names and more about their ears experience and how to improve it with no need very often for upgrade... Save the necessary one upgrade when all that is possible have been done with what we already own... Not before... |
@blackbag20 I just spent the last 1.5 hours clearing out the boxes. I kept 3, the CODA #16 amp, Magnum Dynalab MD108T tuner, and KEF KC62 sub (this was a problematic piece in the past but good so far). The MD 108T will need calibrating in about a decade, likely in Toronto. Bryston and Axiom now own them. The Yamaha NS5000 speakers can be repaired by me (I did the Thiel CS3.7 in the past) and there is local dealer that sells the NS5000. Though I did not buy from them. I am keeping the CODA#16 box because I am demoing the Sim Audio Moon 861 or 761 amps this month with the NS5000 dealer. I have a lot of Schitt gear for headphones (and Yggi+ LM DAC) I can easily drive to the SchittR to get any repairs done (70 miles). It feels great to clear out the garage and now have a different mindset to audio. I have been a member of A'gon since about 2000 (yyz before) and until 2018 I had about 200 posts. In the last 5 years, I have about 4K posts and tons of buying and selling. That is all done now, except for the SimAduio demo and a purchase of a PlayBack Designs DAC. https://www.audiogon.com/systems/7605 I need to update the Virtual System for my Office. The dirty deed with the boxes is in the last 2 photos. |
Yes. The same faculty can serve a discriminative or obsessive function, as is true with so many human faculties. As others have said, it's a matter of balance and maintaining perspective.
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Hello, This is for Jay. It kind of sucks you have these things happening to you. I do not know what all is going on in your life if this is causing you problems in your life then sell it all. $500,000 is a fantastic nest egg after you sell all the two channel stuff. In about 7.2 years you could double your money. Also, If you knew what is coming soon you would sell it right now. In a year no one will buy your equipment if you have the money parked you will be a multi millionaire in ten years just off of your money you made from your audio sale. Bottom line, this industry is not healthy for you and your relationships. If that was all a gimmick then that really sucks.
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In my earlier post I stated, "It is Interesting how the idea of exchanging the Tools to replay recordings become of very little importance over a short period of time." @mahgister has stated "Then it is not purchasing an upgrade that will teach you how to distinguish and relate this three different conceptual perspectives , it will be the task to optimize and study the mechanical, electrical and acoustical embeddings of any gear you already own in their rightful optimal synergetical working dimensions..." As for the words from @mahgister I sense I have them understood and endorse them. It is no secret on the 'Gon', where I make it known I have worked extensively on interfaces in my Audio System and Listening Environment. The experiences attained and impressions to be made are not ones that are able to to be acquired over night. It is safer to say there is the Long-Haul element to such an endeavour. Firstly, Audio Equipment does not levitate, it requires to be propped up on something to support it. The methods used for propping up/support has lead me to learn plenty about Supporting Audio Devices from Source to Speakers. The lessons learned are quite substantial and others who I spend time with in relation to Audio interests, when introduced to, or loaned a method I have adopted to use, have followed up with creating their own versions. From my assessment it is without question that when this area of Audio is attended to, devices in use find a new level of attraction for how they perform. (This as a practice does not have to incur an outlay of too much monies) Secondly, Audio Devices are not able to Beam a Electronic Signal it is to be transferred from device to device via Wire. There are methods to supply power to a device that are not direct from the Grid, I have mainly worked with Power Cables. This for me has been an evolving experience, where 15 Years ago I was influenced by a Brands offerings when it came to Interconnect Cables. Over the approx' past 10 Years, I moved to being more interested in how a Type of material used for a Signal Wire and the Wire Structure, i.e, Solid, Stranded, would function at an interface. I have worked with a Source, i.e, Cartridge Tag Wires, Tonearm Internal Wand Wires, Internal Wiring in Audio Devices, Wire Types used to Transfer a Electronic Signal, Connectors on a Chassis, Connectors on a Cable. The gauge of Solid Wire or Composition of a Stranded Wire, become the later in the learning process focus of interest. The overall Structure of the Cable was not too important in the earliest investigations, and to date, lessons learned have not revealed too much to suggest the overall structure of a Cable is of great importance in my listening environment. My own experiences to date have shown Wire Type, Wire Structure - Solid, Stranded and the Wire Gauge and the connectors used on both Cable and Chassis, are the factors that can make a Interface that is produced a Standout (for the better) or to have a Mediocre to Detrimental Impact on the Sonic being produced. (This as a practice will take time, depending on the methods adopted, it can incur cost for third party support. There does not have to be too much of a concern for an outlay when not buying into Brands and selecting a Wire Type Only. Sometimes a used market search can discover a Cable with all the Boxes Ticked for very reasonable monies and will speedily resell if not wanted to be kept). Thirdly, there is the Space/Environment that the end product of the produced Electronic Signal transferred form Source to Speaker Xover is to be finally transformed into a Sonic with the intention to be Audibly Noticed. Within this Space the Sonic can be one that is not seemingly contaminated by other sonic residuals being created by the energy being transferred as sound into the room. Over time I have set up Audio Equipment in a various environments and have become accustomed to how unwanted frequencies can be resent through the produced sound transferring into other local inanimate objects and transforming these into producers of a unwanted audible sonic. Not all inanimate objects are removable or able to be simplistically treated, a soft base under a item that has a rattle when in direct contact with a hard surface, is a most basic treatment. A Glass in a Rooms Aperture that resonates is a more involving challenge to substantially reduce the audible intrusion. My present listening environment is Treated to my Standards but not in a professionally treated sense. I am using my experiences and DIY ancillaries, where the produced ancillaries are using materials that will be incorporated into the ancillaries a professional service will recommend to be incorporated. My evaluation is that I know exactly where to remove a ancillary and create a sonic that is noticeable for being a intrusive distraction. For me the above is a Trilogy of Importance. I do feel the Room undergoing a amount of treatment to reduce the effects of sound that is a residual and intrusive goes a long way to assist with evaluation of adopting the other methods. How an individual approaches this Trilogy of treating the Audio Interfaces as a 'matter of course' is again each to their own. Where one gets on and off the Bus will be unique for each. What is a asurity, is that keeping ones ear to the Ground and periodically continuing investigations, will bring new levels of performance and betterment beyond what is already achieved. The impact might just be, that a change of equipment might not seem to carry too much importance, as a result of the benefits already being experienced through working on the Interfaces in the System and Listening Environment.
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I don’t know why people who have an obsessive hobby sometimes feel the need to lament their obsession and blame the hobby itself and then put their whines onto You Tube. Even if they don’t state it explicitly the unstated message is that all fellow hobbyists have some of their sickness.
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