If you miss inner detail, stay away from records.
"Higher resolution services have arrived"🤣🤣🤣 Yeah like a hundred years ago. It's called the LP.
Is Pretty Good Good Enough? Listening Habits In The World Of Streaming Services.
I'm a recent subscriber to Tidal and Amazon Unlimited. The sound quality of the cd quality music is surprisingly good. I find myself listening to more music because of it.
I've also found myself in a situation when I come across a very familiar recording that I find it missing some of the inner details of the recording that I'm very familiar with....overall, the recording is good, but I noticed the missing elements. Though I found it not as good as it sounds on my cd player, it was good enough that I didn't stop the song and went and got my cd and played it. In other words, I settled for pretty good. Interestingly, as I moved up the chain in the world of audio, it was always in pursuit of better equipment to extract better sound from the recording. I was always looking for better than 'good enough'. Well, 'good enough' has gotten a lot better than it used to be...and much more convenient.
Sadly, my critical listening time with my cd player and turntable is a lot less these days because of the streaming services. I've just started to fiddle around with burning wav files of my cd's to a hard drive to make copies of those recordings where nothing but the original file will do.
How have your listening habits changed since the higher resolution services have arrived?
69 responses Add your response
For me, the sound quality of streaming has reached good enough status (I’m a Tidal subscriber.) and my turntable use has dwindled to practically nothing. My CD player died a couple of years back and I don’t anticipate replacing it. Of course, sound quality varies within streaming just like any other media but my 65 yr old ears can’t tell any tangible difference between streaming’s best and vinyl’s best within the limitations of my system….Admittedly, I haven’t poured a king’s ransom into vinyl playback — I’ve got a Music Hall MMF-5 with the stock Goldring cart which is probably due for an upgrade but, considering the enjoyment I’m getting from streaming, the question I ask myself is, “Why would I want to spend the bucks for a cartridge when I could invest it in a better DAC for my streamer?”.,,,
Different strokes for different folks… |
"Good enough" has indeed gotten a lot better than daze of old. I even get a lot of musical enjoyment out of Linn radio @320. Of course some tunes are fun enough to acquire but that is exceptional. Take the testvand you’ll see that higher than Redbook is only randomly discernable. I echo onhwy61. Enjoy! |
For me? Yes. I listen to a ton of music on both Spotify and Radio Paradise. For me, it's about discovery and background music (mostly). We also stream from Spotify or Apple Music at my little local music club meetings. Pretty good has become pretty darn good and it's convenience cannot be denied. |
Good Enough? That’s the rub right, or is it ever good enough? Is only when ringing the most absolute detail no matter the cost of equipment or convenience good enough? Can a recording only be enjoyed after every minute detail has been analyzed, optimized and finalized? What about the next recording? Were the optimizations for one tune be good enough for the a different recording or genera of music? What is most important content, convenience or both? With unlimited funds and a staff robots you could probably recreate the digital streaming experience in vinyl. You would have to actually make pressings of those albums that were never released in vinyl but to be good enough cost is no option, right? If you wanted to search for how multiple versions of “Skylark” sound different it could be done with analog but would take a huge database of all your analog recordings and multiple turntables and a robot task force that can easily be done by any music server or streaming service. To be Good Enough depends upon priorities and your budget. There is no right answer here but there is a truth. With enough money it can always be better but whether it’s ever good enough depends on you.
The best bots come from Russia no Chi bots for me. |
Absolutely. Is the quality as good as my albums and CDs? No, but the higher resolution recordings do come close. I like listen to streaming services because it has encouraged me to discover groups and music I never would have listened to before because I don’t have the access. I buy more music now because of the streaming services. |
My experiences mirror that of mitch4t. I subscribe to Qobuz, Amazon HD Unlimited, and often listen to Radio Paradise (which is an excellent streaming service for a variety of genres). RP is a free service but a small donation offers a big return on enjoyment. That said, I still very much enjoy listening to CD's, as on my system they are still more resolving, detailed and spacious. Its just that I spend more 'convenient' time enjoying the music on the streaming services. |
If the CD sounded better it was probably a different release mastered or produced differently than the source for the streamed version. Could also be a different DAC. There is no reason why streaming categorically would be inherently inferior to CD equivalent. It is true that most streaming services tend to lean towards more recent remasters that are probably mixed louder than in the past but same would be true if same version were played from CD. Streaming is a wonderful thing and it bugs me when people knock it categorically. Get with the program boomers! Ymmv always from release to release no matter what format the material is delivered in. |
it takes a decent amount work and knowledge to accomplish it, but to me, in my system, streamed music is equal to cd’s played on my cdp (modwright modded sony sacd player with tube rectification/output) - some even better if the hi-res feed is well recorded took me a solid year and numerous equipment changes to get here though - and not just audio gear... networking, modems, switches, and so on too... but it definitely can be done |
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I have 600+ CDs ripped to my (SGC) Roon music server, fed into a microrendu and then into my DAC (not an MQA DAC, so I get only the first unfold via Roon). |
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Completely agree with the above posts. My CDs are ripped to my Zenith but I tend to stream a lot of music that I would not have discovered were it not for the notes and hyperlinks found in Roon. I have always wanted to enjoy my listening time with a minimum of hassle. Can't beat Roon and Quobuz for convenience. I'm sure I could achieve marginally better SQ, but what I have now is very good -- at least to me. It is still true, however, that some recordings are better than others ... |
Another Radio Paradise fan. The sheer variety of music they offer is amazing. RP has no genre specific play list, from Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys to Mongolian throat singing. I seldom play vinyl or CDs anymore, just due to the convenience. I am a water bot, and have dinner with Capt. Nemo under the sea. |
when i'm working, driving, or in "discovery mode" the streaming services are amazing. i love them, use bandcamp and qobuz daily, spotify every week or two when friends send links. it's so much fun. but if i'm "deep listening" (not doing anything but listening, focusing, and enjoying the music) or in a mixing mood, i 100% prefer putting records on. i like cds and cassettes too, but to me, a nice vinyl setup is still where it's at. to me |
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I get a lot of enjoyment from my stereo other than listening. I love the look of it. I love the beauty of P8 turntable. I enjoy handling the cover of an LP, the artwork and liner notes. I enjoy the process of selecting a record (or CD), removing the dust cover, mounting it on the turntable. The "process" of getting ready to listen. I doubt I'm the only one. I have always preferred to own things. I like to take care of my music collection and have a sense of pride that LP's I have played for 40+ years are still in great condition. Streaming would just diminish so much of the enjoyment I derive from my stereo. Just saying...... |
As far as vinyl is concerned, it’s strictly mono for me because I collect vinyl from that era. It sounds very good and I am not bothered by the limitations. Where digital is concerned, I very much prefer my local music collection to Qobuz or Tidal. Streaming services are fun and convenient but to me, they don’t sound as full or as rich. I do occasionally stream WDR 3 whenever I miss Cologne but of course, it sounds just like MP3 should. The important thing is being true to self. |
There's no "right " way to listen to music. Turntable, cd, or streaming is all good. I personally love discovering new music with streaming and find keeping my turntable up more of a hassle than I'm willing to out up with, but that's me. The music discovery is just more important than the other stuff. |
I must be deaf because I stream Tidal on my BlueSound Node 2i and I am able to listen to hi-res music (higher than CD quality). Since I purchased my BlueSound, I have not played a CD in my OPPO 105. Since when does a 16 bit CD have better quality than lets say 24/192? I am not as knowledgeable as many of you and if you can explain why a CD plays higher quality please explain. One of the tech people from The Harmon Luxury group lives in Denver and he stopped by to trouble shoot a few things. While he was there he demoed a comparison between Tidal and Qobuz. It was very easy to pick Qobuz every timee because the detail was noticeably better. He even tried to trick me and I picked Qobuz every time. I am checking out the Qobuz library to see how it compares to Tidal before switching. However, I prefer the graphics and thee interface Tidal has created. |
I have this debate often with my mate, while I admit vinyl on a quality turntable sounds great streaming from 24bit -192khz on my system to me sounds good enough that missing that one little top hat here or there etc doesn’t really change my life. I’m using Amazon Music HD. So far my system is Sugden A21SE amp, Denafrips Pontus II DAC, Audiolab 6000n streamer & KEF R3 speakers. I need a system I can operate from my armchair and this is so far where is has taken me. |
It's interesting you 'miss' something with the high res streams since they typically are of higher quality (24bit/192kHz) than CD (16bit/44.1kHz). If you hear a difference (very few people can ... do the test over here https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality ) it could be that you somehow prefer the lower sampling rate of the CD. The solution could be simple and cheap ... switch to the Tidal standard subscription. It could also be that you hear the differences between the DAC and the electronics of the CD player versus the streamer unit that you use. You could go on the lookout for another streamer / DAC combination that comes closer to the sound that you prefer. |
I stream from several sources and listen to my own CD's. I have several times compared the same music across the 3 formats. I have heard big differences across different performances/recordings (a recent attempt from a stream was so bad I stopped after 30 seconds and went to a different performance from a different stream) and (sometimes) small differences of the same performance/recording across streams vs CD's. But the difference between performances/recordings is *much* greater than the differences in SQ across streams or CD. Frequently, the artists record the same piece more than once, and the differences are noticeable. I have Yo Yo Ma's 1st and 3rd recordings of the Bach Solo Cello pieces; they are both wonderful but they are quite different. I have Hilary Hahn's early and later recordings of Vaughn Williams' "The Lark Ascending"; the 1st is not very good, the 2nd is almost transcendent. (Hahn had obviously grown a lot.) |
Long time vinyl to cd back to vinyl listener. I now subscribe to Qobuz and Tidal streaming via Roon + HQ Player. The streaming sq is excellent and I’ve slowed down once again on my vinyl purchases. With my current streaming and dac setup I prefer streaming to cd’s. Vinyl is still my holy grail..also, another shout out for Radio Paradise, excellent programming and sq. |
Just some advice. If Tidal at FLAC, or better yet, kinda-sorta-HD (MQA sans 2nd unfold) is not better than the same CD, you don't have something set up right.
Long ago i concluded that ripped to my laptop and played back bitpperfect >> he same CD, and then that streaming was identical to he ripped CD. With a better server and the isolation of a bridge - its better. Now factor in the remasters and MQA that are so often available through Tidal and its regularly much better, if only because the master is better. Spend some more time.
'later |
CD, SACD, SHM-CD, SHM-SACD, DVD audio, etc etc. dedicated CD player, descent cables, quality preamp, power amp(s) Way above and beyond downloading, streaming, Amazon, apple downloads , etc etc. bought a handful of Apple Music, and songs,through,Amazon, etc,….there is no comparison in quality, CD, and hard copies wreck streaming, downloads, the music I’ve downloaded, bought highest quality available, will burn to cd, it is filled with audible hiss, sometimes a slight loss in some Freq’s compared to playing the same song on cd. Not bad if your not listening for it, we have a very revealing and accurate system, and shows flaws in audio sometimes. I did run the songs through audiolab 3.0, lower the high freq’s and upper midrange freq’s just a “dab”. Then burn again with 96K on a taiyo yuden cd-r. Much better, but I should not have to do so when spending money on “air” or buying “nothing”.
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It is all about the music any way I can get it. Yes I prefer and enjoy my reference system but that does no stop me from listening to music in my car, on the plane, or in my office through wireless bluetooth speakers. I will take music any way I can get it and the fringe delivery systems only make me appreciate and enjoy my reference system that much more. I stream Qobuz and it sounds really good and it has allowed for me to discover new artists I would have never found before. Just shut down the echo and noise in your head and enjoy the music. |
The Grace Digital Link provides "Good Enough" and maybe more. Anyone spending more than the $179 asking price to stream is tossing away money imo. If you want hi-res, as MC pointed out, listen to an LP....its where it's at if you want all your "inner detail". Streaming is a convenience, that's it! It is not for critical listening. |
Playing vinyl on my system is my favorite method of listening to music. It brings me the most musical enjoyment. I love the sound quality and I love the process of listening to records. Somehow I "discovered" all the artist and LPs that I own and play. In the past, it was mostly radio that brought these "discoveries" to me. Today, most radio stations are corporate owned and mostly play the same very limited playlist. If you are lucky enough to have a great independent radio station within your reception range, I'm happy for you. Enjoy it. And support it. I hope you discover some great new music you can buy on vinyl or CD to enjoy it more deeply.. Unfortunately, many people do not have any good radio stations near them, so chances for "discovery" are severely limited. This is where streaming can be a godsend, even if the streaming sound quality in the user's system does not reach the level of their vinyl/CD rig. Streaming internet radio, like Radio Paradise, or a streaming service, like Spotify, Qobuz or Tidal, are a great way to discover new (or new to you) music. It can help you expand your knowledge of music by exposing you to artists you would otherwise never likely hear. You can build playlists of music you like and want to hear again, or you can listen to internet radio or a streaming service and let someone else (or an algorithm) choose selections for you. The algorithms are pretty good. They will use the stuff you've listened to before, or songs you "liked" and create playlists of similar stuff. They sometimes stray off into areas you would have never chosen, but may really like. I'm a music lover. I listen to music every day: at home, in the car, when I work in the lawn, when I exercise. It is great that over the last few years I've discovered new music via streaming either internet radio or streaming services or even youTube. I've discovered more new (or new to me) music over the last few years of streaming Radio Paradise and Spotify, than in the previous 15-20 years of the old method. When I discover some great new music that I want to enjoy more deeply, I look to see if it is available on vinyl. If so, I buy it so I can enjoy it more deeply. And I hope the artist makes a couple more bucks in the process... Enjoy your music, however you choose to listen. |
@laoman "I do not look at equipment for the sake of looking at equipment" So if you bought a Porsche, for the performance & ride, you would never stop to admire the body lines? Right. |
Here's my take on it: There's listening to the music then there's listening to your system play music. I'm a software support engineer and if you've seen the news lately, the world is burning because of a new security vulnerability. Last night after the second hellish day at work, I poured myself a dram, fired up my meager system and listened to music via my Node2i. (I even forgot to switch in the tube rectifier on the Border Patrol DAC.) I just listened to the music... Yes the thought crossed my mind, "I've got that on LP.' but I didn't budge. Steely Dan and Miles if you're curious.
My point is, IMHO, there's time for each. Just do what helps you breathe...
Happy listening! |
Bought a new system three years ago that included an Aurender N10. I've gone down the rabbit hole, never to return. Been giving away large handfuls of CDs and needing to get hundreds more out plus two CD towers. If you have a good internet connection, good ethernet cables and a good switch, like an Uptone EtherREGEN, and a good source and power, you'll be having and hearing a great time. |
@laoman You have completed misunderstood my comments. I did not say, nor did I infer that my choice of equipment was in anyway based on appearance. The fact that I like the way the P8 is designed, or the fact my Acoustic Zen cabinets are burled walnut, is just a bonus. Why should anyone not take pleasure in the visual as well as the audio. I hazard a guess that all the participants on this site who have posted pictures of their systems and listening rooms are quite proud of how things "look". I would say that your comments are a tad elitist, but I don't you, so.......... |
bigtwin
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