Is Pretty Good Good Enough? Listening Habits In The World Of Streaming Services.

sounds_real_audio ...I've given your suggestion a lot of serious thought.

I believe if you get a great sounding DAC you would easily find that missing resolution and much more. 

I have Qobuz and it's pretty good SQ, but definitely a notch behind my CDs either ripped or played from a transport.  It is mainly useful for exploring new recordings or mobile listening (my car or being out of town).  I've taken a new job that dramatically shortens my commute, and with traveling greatly curtailed due to Covid, it's generally used for exploring unfamiliar.  If I like the release enough I still buy a physical copy

A couple years ago I bought a Node 2i to check out if I would like streaming.  Ended up getting a Qobuz subscription, upgrading to a PowerNode 2i, selling all my records and turntable.  Now I spend less time searching for, buying, cleaning and researching records.  Now I actually listen to music. 

I have never streamed.  Not once. Vinyl is high end enough. I can’t imagine any streaming service being able to match the dynamics of vinyl. 

good for the chuckle of the day... 🙄

Well, after working on power (Dedicated line) and the internet (Fiber, cascading switches, external LPSUs, clock, ENO filter) my Tidal became pretty pretty close to my tests playing CDs on a loaned Esoteric X05.  Most of the times I could not tell them apart.  So now I stream mostly, and play DSD files from my NAS, which is just slightly better than Tidal.

I have never streamed.  Not once. Vinyl is high end enough. I can’t imagine any streaming service being able to match the dynamics of vinyl. 

I just added Qobuz to my BlueSound Node setup, along with Tidal, Amazon and Napster.  Taking Qobuz for a 1 month test run..I will decide between Tidal and Qobuz and keep only one of the two.

I won’t be getting Roon for a while, BlueSound has everything I need for now.

If you enjoy streaming. Give yourself a Roon setup for christmas present. You can have both Tidal and Qobuz.

Yup. 

I stream Qobuz and Tidal (I think hifi?) through the older PS Audio DAC with Bridge II and I find the sound quality to be excellent.  Way better than “good enough”.

@bigtwin 

I get a lot of enjoyment from my stereo other than listening.  I love the look of it.  I love the beauty of P8 turntable.  I enjoy handling the cover of an LP, the artwork and liner notes. 

Honestly, I believe a lot of vinyl lovers are far more like you than they'd admit, with a large portion of their vinyl enjoyment being in the "care and feeding" of the vinyl experience. I've always considered it a chore myself, but to each their own. If you enjoy that part of the experience, then it's a bonus on top of the music.

I do miss the album covers and liner notes that disappeared (or minaturized into oblivion) with CDs. But I still have about a thousand I can dig out to look at if I get too nostalgic.  But it isn't the same as buying a new album and reading through it the first time as you listen to the new tunes.

I don't stream from hi-res services, but as @sj00884 described, I also stream from Pandora while working, or listen to ripped CDs, through headphones and laptop while working. Quality is fine for me since I'm concentrating on what I'm writing or reviewing. And I have found a great deal of music over the last decade that I otherwise wouldn't have, and now I own much of it on CD. I have to say that the whole concept of "critical listening" to *music* seems a bit bizarre.  I listen to enjoy the music, not to "critically evaluate" it. Those two concepts are mutually exclusive in my experience. YMMV of course.

When talking “critical listening”, any extra effort to seek the best source shouldn’t be an issue really.  If <critical then yeah stream to your heart’s content. When working I stream Pandora via WiFi and at times I even pause to listen to some pretty incredible sounding stuff.  When critical listening, I always reach for the CDs.

I think there are many different reasons why people use streaming. The one that comes to my mind is it’s pretty universal and easily sourced through a lot of digital devices. The accessibility to such a large music data base is now open to even the normal Joe or Jane. There are so many views as to why streaming is good for that individual. I am an audiophile but I still have to drive my car to work and listen to what came with it. My car stereo does not beat what’s in my home audio 2 channel system. So driving with the enjoyment of Tidal HiFi. It helps the fact that new cars don’t come with CD players anymore. So it wasn’t easy to have an simple way to listen to high quality files until Tidal was on the market. In addition to that AppleCar Play and Android Auto have come into play on newer cars and aftermarket head units. So for me both of these technologies have been a blessing for me in the vehicle. To have acceptable sound quality sources on the road for my car audio system. This puts me back in my seat while cruising. I forget about the bad years of MP3 players replacing cd quality and technology is finally started to catch up with superior sound quality! I think this can only help to bring the Joes and Janes of the world. To possibly explore better electronics because the sound quality is already available to them with their Tidal subscription. They just have to be exposed to better electronics and speakers with a streaming service they already have.

Bought a subscription to Quobuz back in February and I have nothing but good things to say about streaming. I don't think I have the critical listening skills that most on this forum has so I wan't speak to the quality of the sound. What I can say is having that kind of a library at your fingertips can significantly change your listening habits. I spend way more time listening now compared to when I was streaming my iTunes library, Pandora or listening to CDs. In fact, I've become a bit of a music whore. I'll literally give anyone a half hour of my time. I find myself listening to genres I never would have considered in the days of physical media. 

One of my favorite ways to spend time now is to settle down with an issue of Sterophile or The Absolute Sound and playing every song mentioned in the issue as I'm reading it. I've discovered so many artists doing this. It's made me realize how little I really knew about music before I started streaming.

If your streaming only good enough, you have a ways to go. Streaming need not be any kind of compromise, except for digital haters. I prefer my streaming setup by quite a margin, and my analog setup is not merely an afterthought.

there have been lively, well discussed threads in the past couple years with folks noting the comparative quality and cost of analog, digital-cdp/local files, digital-streamed front ends

those interested should use the search bar above to locate them, its easy peasy

i would say, regarding this

-- if your streamed digital isn’t as good as your local, cdp-derived digital, you haven’t done streaming right

-- if you’re used to analog and it sounds right to you in a way that no digital can, then that’s great, stick with analog - why suffer in a pursuit that should bring only joy?

-- to get an analog front end to be comparable to well done digital, the analog rig would be 3-4x the cost... including phono stage, cart, all the rest of it --- then, there is the obligatory record collection...

bigtwin

No offence at all. Perhaps you misunderstood. I have audio equipment because I like to listen to music and I like really good sound. If others buy it because they like the Macintosh dials and coloured lights, fine, their business, but not to my tastes.

loaman

I don't mean to offend, but comments like "I find those who buy equipment because of the way it looks and not the sound amusing", just has a holier than thou feel to it?  My apologies if that was not your intention.  While I find a lot of content on this site informative and friendly, there is an awful lot makes we wonder why I stay.  Over opinionated, rude, condescending and at times combative.  I bought my first LP at age 11 (Who's My Generation) and I've been a serious listener and buyer for 55 years.  Listening to sax player Ike Quebec as I write this.  I may not be as technically savvy as some but I know what I like and my opinion is as valid as any other.  I think many of this site's contributors lose site of that fact.  In the end, it's all just opinion.  See you around the site.     

I have two DSD downloads from Native DSD and they sound amazing. II'd say, these DSD files sound better than any other source in my stereo.

bigtwin
Why elitist. All I am saying is that for me the quality of the sound reproduction of the system is of the utmost importance. I really do not car what it looks like. There is one exception to this and that is Fink Teams Borg speakers. I have no doubt they are good, but they look like coffins and would scare the s*** out of me if I woke up still hafl asleep.

@laoman   You have completed misunderstood my comments.  I did not say, nor did I infer that my choice of equipment was in anyway based on appearance.  The fact that I like the way the P8 is designed, or the fact my Acoustic Zen cabinets are burled walnut, is just a bonus.  Why should anyone not take pleasure in the visual as well as the audio.  I hazard a guess that all the participants on this site who have posted pictures of their systems and listening rooms are quite proud of how things "look".  I would say that your comments are a tad elitist, but I don't you,  so..........

Bought a new system three years ago that included an Aurender N10. I've gone down the rabbit hole, never to return. Been giving away large handfuls of CDs and needing to get hundreds more out plus two CD towers. If you have a good internet connection, good ethernet cables and a good switch, like an Uptone EtherREGEN, and a good source and power, you'll be having and hearing a great time.

"So if you bought a Porsche, for the performance & ride, you would never stop to admire the body lines?  Right. "

Yes, correct. I find those who buy equipment because of the way it looks and not the sound amusing.

If your streaming only good enough, you have a ways to go. Streaming need not be any kind of compromise, except for digital haters. I prefer my streaming setup by quite a margin, and my analog setup is not merely an afterthought.

Here's my take on it: There's listening to the music then there's listening to your system play music. I'm a software support engineer and if you've seen the news lately, the world is burning because of a new security vulnerability. Last night after the second hellish day at work, I poured myself a dram, fired up my meager system and listened to music via my Node2i. (I even forgot to switch in the tube rectifier on the Border Patrol DAC.) I just listened to the music... Yes the thought crossed my mind, "I've got that on LP.' but I didn't budge. Steely Dan and Miles if you're curious.

My point is, IMHO, there's time for each. Just do what helps you breathe...

Happy listening!

@laoman "I do not look at equipment for the sake of looking at equipment"

So if you bought a Porsche, for the performance & ride, you would never stop to admire the body lines?  Right.  

Loving this RP , but want to stream through ROON , so I get the HQPlayer processing.

Any clues how I go about this?

Playing vinyl on my system is my favorite method of listening to music. It brings me the most musical enjoyment. I love the sound quality and I love the process of listening to records.

Somehow I "discovered" all the artist and LPs that I own and play. In the past, it was mostly radio that brought these "discoveries" to me. Today, most radio stations are corporate owned and mostly play the same very limited playlist. If you are lucky enough to have a great independent radio station within your reception range, I'm happy for you. Enjoy it. And support it. I hope you discover some great new music you can buy on vinyl or CD to enjoy it more deeply..

Unfortunately, many people do not have any good radio stations near them, so chances for "discovery" are severely limited. This is where streaming can be a godsend, even if the streaming sound quality in the user's system does not reach the level of their vinyl/CD rig.

Streaming internet radio, like Radio Paradise, or a streaming service, like Spotify, Qobuz or Tidal, are a great way to discover new (or new to you) music. It can help you expand your knowledge of music by exposing you to artists you would otherwise never likely hear. You can build playlists of music you like and want to hear again, or you can listen to internet radio or a streaming service and let someone else (or an algorithm) choose selections for you. The algorithms are pretty good. They will use the stuff you've listened to before, or songs you "liked" and create playlists of similar stuff. They sometimes stray off into areas you would have never chosen, but may really like.

I'm a music lover. I listen to music every day: at home, in the car, when I work in the lawn, when I exercise. It is great that over the last few years I've discovered new music via streaming either internet radio or streaming services or even youTube. I've discovered more new (or new to me) music over the last few years of streaming Radio Paradise and Spotify, than in the previous 15-20 years of the old method.

When I discover some great new music that I want to enjoy more deeply, I look to see if it is available on vinyl. If so, I buy it so I can enjoy it more deeply. And I hope the artist makes a couple more bucks in the process...

Enjoy your music, however you choose to listen.

The Grace Digital Link provides "Good Enough" and maybe more. Anyone spending more than the $179 asking price to stream is tossing away money imo. If you want hi-res, as MC pointed out, listen to an LP....its where it's at if you want all your "inner detail". Streaming is a convenience, that's it! It is not for critical listening. 

lg1 This post of yours sounds exactly as if I wrote it. I tried Tidal but found Qobuz more to my taste. Glad to see I am not alone in these thoughts and actions.

It is all about the music any way I can get it. Yes I prefer and enjoy my reference system but that does no stop me from listening to music in my car, on the plane, or in my office through wireless bluetooth speakers. I will take music any way I can get it and the fringe delivery systems only make me appreciate and enjoy my reference system that much more. I stream Qobuz and it sounds really good and it has allowed for me to discover new artists I would have never found before.  Just shut down the echo and noise in your head and enjoy the music.

CD, SACD, SHM-CD, SHM-SACD, DVD audio, etc etc. 

  dedicated CD player, descent cables, quality preamp, power amp(s)

Way above and beyond downloading, streaming, Amazon, apple downloads , etc etc. 

bought a handful of Apple Music, and songs,through,Amazon, etc,….there is no comparison in quality, CD, and hard copies wreck streaming, downloads, the music I’ve downloaded, bought highest quality available, will burn to cd, it is filled with audible hiss, sometimes a slight loss in some Freq’s compared to playing the same song on cd. Not bad if your not listening for it, we have a very revealing and accurate system, and shows flaws in audio sometimes. 
 

I did run the songs through audiolab 3.0, lower the high freq’s and upper midrange freq’s just a “dab”. Then burn again with 96K on a taiyo yuden cd-r. 
 

  Much better, but I should not have to do so when spending money on “air” or buying “nothing”. 
don’t buy much music this way, only a handful of download only bonus stuff, or bonus tracks from a,specific album on apple or Amazon. So when I add the downloaded song to the hard copy rip to iTunes, there is a fairly noticeable dip or increase in volume, or audio quality. 
 

Just some advice. If Tidal at FLAC, or better yet, kinda-sorta-HD (MQA sans 2nd unfold) is not better than the same CD, you don't have something set up right.

Long ago i concluded that ripped to my laptop and played back bitpperfect >> he same CD, and then that streaming was  identical to he ripped CD.  With a better server and the isolation of a bridge - its better.  Now factor in the remasters and MQA that are so often available through Tidal and its regularly much better, if only because the master is better.  Spend some more time.

'later

Too much enjoyment remains from several thousand LPs and CDs to worry about the screaming service of the moment.  Didn't bother with Facebook either.

Long time vinyl to cd back to vinyl listener.   I now subscribe to Qobuz and Tidal streaming via Roon + HQ Player.  The streaming sq is excellent and I’ve slowed down once again on my vinyl purchases.  With my current streaming and dac setup I prefer streaming to cd’s.  Vinyl is still my holy grail..also, another shout out for Radio Paradise, excellent programming and sq.

I have only used Amazon HD.  I think it sounds fine.  But I thought my system sounded good before isolation.  I want to try Qobuz one of these days.

I stream from several sources and listen to my own CD's.  I have several times compared the same music across the 3 formats.  I have heard big differences across different performances/recordings (a recent attempt from a stream was so bad I stopped after 30 seconds and went to a different performance from a different stream) and (sometimes) small differences of the same performance/recording across streams vs CD's.  But the difference between performances/recordings is *much* greater than the differences in SQ across streams or CD.  Frequently, the artists record the same piece more than once, and the differences are noticeable.  I have Yo Yo Ma's 1st and 3rd recordings of the Bach Solo Cello pieces; they are both wonderful but they are quite different.  I have Hilary Hahn's early and later recordings of Vaughn Williams' "The Lark Ascending"; the 1st is not very good, the 2nd is almost transcendent.  (Hahn had obviously grown a lot.)  

It's interesting you 'miss' something with the high res streams since they typically are of higher quality (24bit/192kHz) than CD (16bit/44.1kHz).

If you hear a difference (very few people can ... do the test over here https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality ) it could be that you somehow prefer the lower sampling rate of the CD. The solution could be simple and cheap ... switch to the Tidal standard subscription.

It could also be that you hear the differences between the DAC and the electronics of the CD player versus the streamer unit that you use. You could go on the lookout for another streamer / DAC combination that comes closer to the sound that you prefer.

I have this debate often with my mate, while I admit vinyl on a quality turntable sounds great streaming from 24bit -192khz on my system to me sounds good enough that missing that one little top hat here or there etc doesn’t really change my life. I’m using Amazon Music HD. 
I do enjoy my music and streaming is my only source these days and I admit I’m always trying to make improvements, I only yesterday received some Isoacoustics Iso-Pucks to place under my speakers. Not tried them yet though. 
My system is modest compared to some but great compared to others.

So far my system is Sugden A21SE amp, Denafrips Pontus II DAC, Audiolab 6000n streamer & KEF R3 speakers. 

I need a system I can operate from my armchair and this is so far where is has taken me. 

 

My streaming setup way surpasses CD and vinyl, both of which are no longer used.

All my original CD’s are ripped to a NAS drive, so I can choose to listen to my original version, or the latest update on Qobuz.

Filtering out noise on the wired network is the key to a better performance.

Playing Radio Paradise tonight on Roku (favorites stream) and the combo of  stunning photography  on the hi def tv accompanying music streaming to hifi is mesmerizing.

No, near enough is not good enough. I listen to music to get the greatest enjoyment I can. I do not look at equipment for the sake of looking at equipment.

I must be deaf because I stream Tidal on my BlueSound Node 2i and I am able to listen to hi-res music (higher than CD quality).  Since I purchased my BlueSound, I have not played a CD in my OPPO 105.  Since when does a 16 bit CD have better quality than lets say 24/192?  I am not as knowledgeable as many of you and if you can explain why a CD plays higher quality please explain.

One of the tech people from The Harmon Luxury group lives in Denver and he stopped by to trouble shoot a few things.  While he was there he demoed a comparison between Tidal and Qobuz.  It was very easy to pick Qobuz every timee because the detail was noticeably better.  He even tried to trick me and I picked Qobuz every time.  I am checking out the Qobuz library to see how it compares to Tidal before switching.  However, I prefer the graphics and thee interface Tidal has created.

There's no "right " way to listen to music.  Turntable, cd, or streaming is all good.  I personally love discovering new music with streaming and find keeping my turntable up more of a hassle than I'm willing to out up with, but that's me.  The music discovery is just more important than the other stuff.

As far as vinyl is concerned, it’s strictly mono for me because I collect vinyl from that era. It sounds very good and I am not bothered by the limitations. Where digital is concerned, I very much prefer my local music collection to Qobuz or Tidal. Streaming services are fun and convenient  but to me, they don’t sound as full or as rich. I do occasionally stream WDR 3 whenever I miss Cologne but of course, it sounds just like MP3 should. The important thing is being true to self.

I get a lot of enjoyment from my stereo other than listening.  I love the look of it.  I love the beauty of P8 turntable.  I enjoy handling the cover of an LP, the artwork and liner notes.  I enjoy the process of selecting a record (or CD), removing the dust cover, mounting it on the turntable.  The "process" of getting ready to listen.  I doubt I'm the only one.  I have always preferred to own things.  I like to take care of my music collection and have a sense of pride that LP's I have played for 40+ years are still in great condition.  Streaming would just diminish so much of the enjoyment I derive from my stereo.   Just saying......

Sorry, but my streaming rig has more inner detail and sense so space than my vinyl rig. About same relative investment. Both are enjoyable.

when i'm working, driving, or in "discovery mode" the streaming services are amazing. i love them, use bandcamp and qobuz daily, spotify every week or two when friends send links. it's so much fun. 

but if i'm "deep listening" (not doing anything but listening, focusing, and enjoying the music) or in a mixing mood, i 100% prefer putting records on. i like cds and cassettes too, but to me, a nice vinyl setup is still where it's at. to me

.... and, Radio Paradise, in full FLAC resolution, sounds so darn good. I'm occasionally shocked at how good it sounds streaming from my little < $100 Raspberry Pi based streamer.