In the sand box

Hey hilroy48...thanks for the inquiry,

Long ago, in the wilds of Maine, the rig was on a jouncy 2nd floor apartment surface, sourced with a fully fleshed out Sota Star Saphire TT.  After several attempts including bladders, footers etc., my solution was a box filled with play sand and an added Maine block of granite atop the sand, carefully leveled.  I suspect any deadening plinth will work.  Cheers and onwards!

More Peace, Pin                       (Bold print for old eyes)

Speaking of sand boxes and vibrations:

Have ya’ll heard the story about Brian Wilson and his sandbox? Sometime in 1966 Brian had the idea of having the grand piano in the living room of his Bel Air mansion installed within a sandbox, so that he could feel his feet in the enclosed sand as he composed songs. Whatta nut. I don’t know if he had that done before or after writing "Good Vibrations". I also don’t how long it was before it became apparent that the Wilson family cat(s?) viewed the sandbox as a litter box, and it was therefore removed.

And then there was the time of while shopping in the Tower Records on Sunset Blvd. that Brian suddenly felt nature calling. He asked a Tower employee if he could use the restroom, and was told the restroom was for employees only. Brian walked over to an end cap, whipped it out, and sprayed away. Like I said, whatta nut.

@markmuse 

+1 😂

Don't use sand if you have cats.

I use Tiers of Materials and Granite has for a very long time been dependable and has always found a place to be used within a produced structure.

Note: Thickness of Granite is also a consideration in some structures a 1/2inch (10mm) Slab is the preferred over a 2 inch (50mm) Slab, in another Structure a 8i4 inch x 16 inch x 72 inch (100mm x 400mm x 1800mm) Slab has been the Granite  Material that really let the structure show of its full potential, 

Granite is used in the Configurations for the Structure of the Systems Rack which the Vinyl Source is Mounted on, it is used as a Substantial Piece in the Structure to support the Pre > Power Amps and is also used as a Part in the Structure to support the Floor Standing Cabinet Speakers when the ESL Speakers are swapped out of alternative sound experience.

My own experiments proved a very long time ago that when using the commonly readily available materials, using one type only as a Base or Plinth does not create an end sound that can be classed as a betterment.

If an individual does want to experience a single material that is not expensive and can easily be found as a Off Cut, that when used as a Sub-Plinth, will offer a influence to the end sound that many who experience it, have agreed it is offering a a betterment. Is a not too densely packed Chip Board. Try Chipboard mounted on a Toller Bearing Footer, which is easily produced from Teaspoons and Marbles and this might just be enough for certain devices to be much improved for the end sound they are producing. 

Most recent investigations carried out by myself are proving that Granite and other Materials used in the Structures I have created have a competitor, and one that has now commenced to supersede dependable materials used over many years.

That material is a Engineered Wood Product that is a by design a Highly Compressed Board, produced in a Vacuum with a Heat Treatment and dies have Brands that produce it. It is generically referred to as the following in the Industry: 

                Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board

To get the general idea about this type of material have a look at a Brand such as Panzerholz or Permali, but there are other Brands offering near identical manufacturing methods.      

@hilroy48  (OP). 

Yes, slabs of un-isolated granite are often reported as causing ringing. I use a slabs Of granite for my amp.  I have a  heavy amp stand with spikes to the concrete floor, on top of the stand (under the granite  are a series of elastomer pucks. Then the amp is on top of springs. So the granite added isolated mass to the system.

I've tried many isolation schemes over the decades, I prefer sand boxes to granite, concrete, various woods, soft and hard plastic products.  The platform which sits on top of the sand is critical, I have platforms made of various thickness aluminum plates, all with vibration sinks attached via structural glue, also have various wood platforms, various thickness maple and baltic birch. Finally the footers, have many to choose from, generally prefer Stillpoints. Finally I have choice of avoiding sand boxes, platforms or footers altogether, components hung from custom built stands via high test monofilament fish line. All isolation solutions editorialize to some extent, the fish line method  editorializes the least. The entire system sits on a large concrete slab over a suspended floor which is reinforced with a number of floor jacks placed in strategic positions.

I tried a 2 " thick piece of Granite from a sink cut out from a countertop under my turntable, it caused severe ringing and the sound in the room was terrible. Staying with the sponge hockey pucks.

Why would someone want to use sand vs something like slate, concrete, or a solid polymer?

  I just visited Taleisin west of Madison, Wi, Frank Lloyd Wright home.  The base is sandstone boulders, not concrete, and they are raising money to jack the foundation, for the third time since it was built.  Now sandstone and sand are different, as is the requirement for stabilizing a large dwelling vs an audio component, but I do think that there is a lesson contained here.

Years ago I built a sandbox isolator platform for the turntable system of an audiophile buddy. By then my turntable system was in storage (where it will remain forever, sadly), so couldn’t test the efficacy of this box. But my friend said it did wonders to cut down vibrations from footsteps, doors opening/closing, etc.

As a wood working project it was simplicity itself:

1 - Using furniture grade plywood (more layers/glued laminations than regular plywood), construct a box with bottom, 4 sides, and no top face. Dimensions in this case were 18" square with 6" sides

2 - Those 5 pieces must fit together tightly/precisely & be joined by glue + screws

3 - Carefully use a router to gently roll/bevel the upward facing edges of the 4 sides

4 - Using a separate piece of the same plywood, make a top element that is 1.5" to 2" smaller than the inside measurement (Length & Width) of the box. Use the router to smooth all 4 outside edges

5 - Situate the box in the desired location in the listening room (easy to do it now, near impossible after the next step)

6 - Fill the open-topped box with play sand, enough to come w/in 3/4" of the top of the sides

7 - Drop the top element onto the sand. Use a carpenter’s level to level the top element.

8 - Place the turntable on the top element (centered securely), then re-level.

That’s it. End of vibration reaching the TT via floors, walls

Well my Grand daughter likes the sand box,next time I'll give her some old equipment to play with.

DuPont Zircon M sand is the most dense ( Heaviest ). You guys think you’re so anal, you should spend some time around competitive Bench Rest shooters.  

Efficacy of a sandbox depends on the turntable design in my experience. With my Acoustic Signature Final Tool turntable a heavy sandbox made no discernible difference. However, replacing the factory "cone" feet with Stillpoints did make a difference. I also imagine what the sandbox sits on also is a factor.

My contragravity suspension systems work well, but it's a supple trick to place/replace the next LP without bumping inadvertently.....it took awhile to learn the trick without the TT skating away....literally.....

Yeah, yeah, yeah....the DOD and their ilk kept showing up, waving hands, later weapons....they Finally got tired of their various agents 'disappearing' with no trace or clue....

That and most have trouble dealing with a 3D world as it stands....

....even with something as simple as sound.....😏

@bhrapp +1

When constructing an structure for the Isolation for Audio Equipment, using Tiers of Materials will produce the most noticeable of the improvements to be discovered.     

I had a Bright Star sandbox.  It degraded the sound of my tube amp, and did not help the turntable,  

@waytoomuchstuff  +2 

Lmao

Here’s a post from 2004 by Barry, of Bright Star Audio.  He started tweaking in 1985.

Since my listening area is on a suspended floor, several of my components are on Bright Star sand boxes - along with aftermarket footers.

Sand in the bottom of my Vienna Acoustics Bachs made a difference. Tighter more solid bass. There’s a plug in the bottom and a chamber built for sand. The owner’s manual describes what to, how to load em up. Also loaded up bookshelf speaker stands with sand, works great. You can buy “sterile” beach sand on Amazon designed just for such purposes. 
 

Hey, if it sounds good/better, then it works! 

@waytoomuchstuff + 1 

Being a professional woodworker I have designed and built audio racks using custom  designed sand filled isolated shelves. Since silica sand is getting hard to find I like to use a quartz based media blasting sand very similar to the article listed by soma70.  Mineral based sand has all the same properties as silca sand, clean, dry, and uniform grit size.  If you want to eliminate as much vibration as possible its important to have several layers of dampening and let your sand filled isolation shelves float . As we know, when you isolate your components from vibration with a quality rack it helps squeeze the maximum performance from your system components.  One of the benefits of vibration isolation dampening is a very black almost spooky background.

Paul

Sure, why not.

I’ve put sand in speaker stands for the same reason, to dampen vibration.

I like placebo sand mixed with some psychoacoustic pebbles.   Then a pure white quartz crystal directly over the amp's transformer.

I also have a shaman come in and perform some cool looking stuff that aligns the polarity of the electrons.  

Grand sand animates the playing of the grand for less than a grand paid by an aging grand.

I'd avoid quicksand at any cost.  A few years ago my DAC was swallowed whole, never to be seen again.  Tragically, this incident occurred in clear view of my grandkids.  Counseling can get very expensive.

Years ago there was a product that was a sand box with a shelf fitted on top of the sand (I think that was made by Bright Star, as bdp 24 mentions).  I used a pair under my Jadis amplifiers, they were effective at isolating the amps from floor vibrations.  I used play sand.  Seems to me you could make one pretty easily and inexpensively too.  Bdp24's advice is sound, wish I had used silica sand, as the play sand did get a little damp. 

There is a thread started on 3-27-2020 by @soma70 entitled "Sandbox Design Advice". In it I recommended silica sand, a non-organic, man-made material used in sandblasting. Silica sand is superior to play sand for this application in that it doesn’t absorb moisture, and is therefore incapable of supporting the growth of bacteria.

Silica comes in different "grades", just like lead shot. When I was using the Bright Star Big Rock isolation boxes, I settled on No. 60 grade sand. It is the optimum size, anything smaller (the particle size, a larger number connoting a smaller size grain) being too powdery.

I found Silica at a construction supply yard, but I think even Home Depot sells it. It’s cheap, like under ten bucks for a fifty pound bag (this was twenty years ago).

Some use Organics such as Rice as the Particulate, others use Metal such as Lead Shot, other use Grain that is a Stone Particulate, in general all must be thoroughly dry before being put to use.

There is also Oil Compacted Sand worthwhile looking into as the Particulate.

"Just when I think people in this hobby couldn't get sillier.."

How naive grasshopper.

Just when I think people in this hobby couldn't get sillier...

You are correct, it was play sand they used, not beach sand. 

Sand works very well when used with a quality shelf.  You should use play sand.  It's very dry and has been filtered.  Sand will absorb moisture so overtime you will need to replace the sand.  That's not really a problem since it's dirt cheap, but it can get messy.

I am using soft sponge hockey pucks, and that has stopped all vibrations that I am able to record? 

Inner tubes, elastomer layers, pucks, springs, carbon fiber shelfs, sophisticated integrated isolation platforms (Silent Running Audio), metal cones, wood cones, granite slabs… but not sand, moss, alge, dirt or gravel.