I've been stuck with a huge bill. The previous administration apparently lowered withholding and increased rates. Taxation without representation and benefits.
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I hate to further any potentially political discussion, but the IRS really isn’t the problem. It’s Congress that writes the tax code which the IRS has to enforce. Years ago I read the IRS often goes after companies with 15 employees or less because small businesses don’t have the resources to hire teams of tax attorneys (at one point GE had 1000 tax lawyers on staff - how can the IRS compete with that?) I also believe that major companies tax shelter/money movement schemes are so convoluted that the IRS doesn’t have the manpower to even figure out much of what was constructed to evade paying into the system. If were in Congress, I’d give the IRS more resources to have large teams dedicated to each multinational to determine what they owe, not what they claim. I believe the IRS has in the past audited restaurants and charged tax based on the amount of food/supplies they order and charge tax based on what money they think was made. They have done this to waiters as well, billing them for what the IRS believes they made in tips, which the waiters claim they did not make that much. If this principle were applied to taxing huge corporations, I think many of us would be in a better place. Many years ago I was audited because the IRS calculations differed from my brokerage firm by $500. The agent spent days, even coming to home based video post production studio (I deduct a lot of gear). In the end I settled with them for $250. I found they agent to be nice, professional and reasonable, though I felt it was a huge waste of resources for $250. Years ago there was an uproar because someone leaked an internal motivational video produced by the IRS that was a fun spoof on Star Treck. While people seem outraged at their tax dollars being spent on that, myself having done many films for companies, including an elaborate Star Wars spoof, and knowing how the employees love seeing their coworkers in the films, felt it was a useful and inexpensive way of making employees feel better about their IRS job. I can only imagine an IRS employee at a bar or party and someone asks what they do for a living, then politely excuse themself. Who wants to talk to an IRS employee? |
The Creature from Jekyll Island is a must read for every tax payer In November 1910, six men – Nelson Aldrich, A. Piatt Andrew, Henry Davison, Arthur Shelton, Frank Vanderlip and Paul Warburg – met at the Jekyll Island Club, off the coast of Georgia, to write a plan to reform the nation’s banking system. The meeting and its purpose were closely guarded secrets, and participants did not admit that the meeting occurred until the 1930s. But the plan written on Jekyll Island laid a foundation for what would eventually be the Federal Reserve System.
It is a PRIVATE entity
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"My wife and I paid every year and always a few thousand extra. Since being retired, we now get a refund of a couple of thousand." stereo5- that's great. I am looking forward to joining that seemingly elusive club. I've got 7 years to go until F.R.A., and I'm not waiting a day later! If things go better than planned, I'm out in 5. I can then FINALLY, dedicate more time for proper audio neurosis.
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"Taxes are taxes wherever one lives, that said cheques still must be an American thing, living in Canada it must be at least 25 years since I last had a cheque book every thing being electronic."
totem395, technically, our bill in the States, isn't due until this Monday, 18th. While the checkbook has been a thing of past for awhile now, it's useful for making certain payments. It also is a good refresher for actual handwriting. It's a challenge to complete a sentence in proper cursive(a dead skill now) |
Look for the tax enforcement to get even more harsh...but for who? After having a "use tax" levied on my purchase of a used amp I bought from a private individual from Canada, I see things getting far worse for the typical citizen. I remember years ago that the citizen worked from Jan 1 til around May 1-15 just to pay the total tax burden. This includes all taxes of course. But it is still exorbitant IMO. Taxing income may be the most immoral of things since it taxes a human for their very existence because work is a natural part of the life cycle itself, unless you live on someone else’s $$$. But then you are obligated to that entity and subject to their control. |
@artemus_5 Thinking that may not happen as he cannot even get the Fed Funded. I agree 100% with your post. Fed Sales Tax that way everyone pays even those who do not report income. |
getting our moneys worth? Those worthless people in the House and Senate that do nothing but go at each other do nothing for the taxpayers, yet their average income is $160000.00+ a year. I wish I could have had a job that paid that for not doing anything. Then you got people like Musk who can buy anything and now wants to buy Twitter so trump can have his platform back. We supposedly middle class are being taken for one big, long ride. |
I’m not sure Musk cares one way or another about Trump’s access to Twitter, but one never knows what the oligarchs are up to these days. The congress critters are worthless, you have that very correct. They all stay too long and leave multi-millionaires. It has never been about R vs. D, but us vs. them. I don’t pay attention to what they say, but what they actually do. Outside of a few wedge issues that are used to keep the tax slaves divided, there is marginal difference between the two parties. This will be my parting shot, as it isn’t considered "polite company" to discuss politics in this country any longer... suffice it to say that we paid far too much throughout the year and then had to pony up even more come filing time. |
I’ve always wondered what would happen if we flipped the income tax amounts. Pay our states and local municipalities what we pay the Feds, and pay the Feds what we do our states and local municipalities.
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Taxes, taxes...and more taxes! You people outside of California have it easy. We get hammered, then hammered some more AND we have to be mindful of EVERYTHING that comes out of our mouths because someone is gonna get offended and label you a HATER/AGITATOR! I'm exaggerating a little bit, but not much. I
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I think the Europeans have this one right. VAT makes sense on several levels. You make the choice to pay taxes when you purchase XYZ, the IRS has to collect from several million businesses instead of 330 million of us, and lastly the wealthy spend more money so a VAT system is very progressive. If you want Americans to save money punish them for spending not working! |
I am thrilled at the privilege to pay my fair share of taxes each year for the privilege to live in a great country. Far from perfect I know but maybe the least imperfect scenario going.
To everyone wishing for a national sales/VAT tax, it places an undue burden on those who spend everything to make ends meet. A flat tax simply doesnt cut it either, too much income is passive and doesnt end up in a bin that can be taxed under any of the proposed methods to date.
I should be paying more…most of us should. |
The more poor people out there... The less complaints about taxation... thus... the goal. Taxation started out at 1% of your labored income... The government greed is overwhelming nowadays... redistribution of wealth is a bad policy... but why... I refer to my first sentence... A flat tax levels the playing field for all, no more gimmicks, you work, you pay tax, you don't work, you don't pay tax... this dictates the governments monetary policy, so naturally a flat tax is insufficient for their spending habits... fiscal responsibility does not equate to the government... as they want (need) to keep the poor people at bay, so they give them your money, to cover up their bad policies...
Steve |
@ghasley , under a VAT system there are ways to protect those at the bottom of the ladder for food and cloths. In this system if you paid more in taxes you made more money so in a sense be happy that your tax bill is higher. Most people have it easy. They are W2ed. Self employed people have to pay quarterly and have much higher exposure to the process not to mention what we spend on accountants. One issue I find very irritating is the lay thought that wealthy people dodge taxes. That is BS of the highest order. The vast majority of wealthy people have no idea what is going on. They pay whatever their accountants tell them to pay. Criminals dodge taxes. Wealthy law abiding citizens do not and have no need to. I do not mind paying taxes. I mind what my taxes are spent on. I would love to buy a missile to fly up Putin's a-s. I do not like paying for artists to make offensive art. |
Would like to see more transparency about how tax dollars are used. Probably would be too revealing. Lots must be spent dealing just with red tape and legalities not to mention having to deal with shysters like Trump who spend their whole lives costing other people time and money with their lies and lack of ethics. It’s the taxpayers these days who have to pay just to keep the house in order. Imagine the time and money wasted. |
I know right? Here's the rub...its easy to follow the money: About two-thirds of the tax dollars paid by Americans each year goes to Medicare etc, Social Security payments and unemployment payments. About 20-25% goes to Defense, Interest on the national debt. Various other programs taking up about 8-10%. Everything else is funded by, you guessed it, debt. I cant imagine how the federal "budget" would look without low interest rates....
Both sides of the aisle should raise our taxes, get spending in check and reduce/eliminate our dependence on deficit spending. As a nation, we haven't taken advantage of the low rates, we've just enjoyed them.
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The United States is supposed to stand for Freedom & Liberty, last I checked, we’re ranked 34th in the world…
A few parables or idioms first… which apply to your question…
When one jumps on a Merry-go-round, where does one expect to go… A frog placed in boiling water will immediately try to save itself, but one placed in cool water that is gradually brought to a boil will not notice the heat until it is boiled to death. Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities… History is always written by the winners… Yellow journalism - Sensationalistic journalism with the main goal of attracting attention and readers, rather than presenting an unbiased account of the news. A bad policy is only a perception… so ignorance is bliss.
We have a two party (government) system… both want to control the country… How does a party create more power for themselves?
The Democrats (currently) base their goals ( ideology) on the needs of the people, charity, retribution, forgiveness, planet and any other opposite point of view of recent past behavior … in order to stay in power they need to make ( or create ) these people… who doesn’t like free money, free food, free housing… free anything… it makes them popular (and powerful as they hold the purse strings ), as there are many poor people now days…
The Republicans (currently) base their goals ( ideology) on the (so-called) capitalist point of view, business growth, free markets, safety, freedom of choice, to allow people to make and save money… they stay in power because they try to make everyone rich and independent.
A sad clash ( or choice to live in)… for a majority of the populous, about 95%**, the two ideologies in a nut shell are… Monetary Servitude or Monetary Slavery I simply find it amazing, that black people are mostly democrats, everything they did to become free men in the US, are happy to be a Monetary Slave now… they will have nothing more than what their Master is giving them… Monetary Servitude is taxation… ** the remaining 5% can live off savings without working AND get free government benefits… a cherry life.
95% of all people in the Executive Branch are there for the money or the power… not to make the country a better place to live… conflict for the country / people is good business…
Closing the budget gap, it doesn’t benefit the business model… as obviously, it keeps them in power… if there is debt, somebody has to pay or lose… and it will be Freedom we all lose… eventually, while they are filthy rich at our expense….
Tell me something, what kind of government do you think we would have if a Replicator device, like on Star Trek existed? Who would have the power, would money exist… Who would work, when one could sit on the beach and watch the bunnies hop by… those in power need someone to support them… hence the current policies.
It will be interesting when the Elon Musk’s robots become prevalent… if we make it that far…
I could go on, but if you don’t get it by now… it’s not about money, it’s about servitude and slavery… Misinformation and misdirection is key in this business model… Keep them under your thumb and dumb, then they can’t question you with authority…
Steve |
So, regardless of how we as a society have landed where we are fiscally...not agreeing with or shooting holes in your treatise...wouldn't you agree that there are only three levers that we can utilize to address the federal budget: Tax receipts, utilization of debt and government spending? No one would disagree that waste, greed, corruption, good intentions, well meaning but poorly executed programs...they all exist. Neither you nor I started that and its unlikely we have participated in their perpetuation. All I was saying in general was the collective "we" only have a few tools to address the issues.
I'm kindof a rule follower, corny I know but that's what scouting, growing up in a military family, church, community...you get the drift....will do to you. I have managed to shed much of what I wasn't terribly comfortable with over the years. Most of us here on Audiogon have been fortunate financially. We benefitted from the recent tax cuts, we benefit in many case from the tax benefits of home ownership, we benefit from favorable tax treatment of long-term capital gains and in some cases, the treatment of windfall short-term income being treated as long term capital gains. We benefit from asset appreciation during these inflationary times for while many are struggling to buy food, gasoline or pay rent many of us have seen our (on paper) net worth skyrocket.
So, I'm not saying I have the answers but it isn't the fault of the less fortunate that you and I are likely benefitting disproportionately in the current system. I've said this before but, generally speaking, the less fortunate don't pay enough into the system to build schools, roads, hospitals let alone the amounts necessary to defend this amazing country and its citizens. |
Agreed I am the opposite… Everybody born has been given the opportunity to strive and succeed… some quit, some fail and quit, and some persevere over and over… then some are born with a silver spoon and others are just lucky… I dislike the fact of supporting people beyond a reasonable low income who are just plain lazy and milk the system. I am a uneducated guy, who worked very hard to achieve success and still do… when I have to pay 40% of my income in taxes, which wasn’t easy to come by, I feel nothing for the unfortunate… but ill thoughts… I was in their shoes once and pressed on….those that are disabled is another story… I don’t like forced charity… I show no favor to politicians either… there’s a saying… if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime… giving them a fish, (lots) gives them no incentive to succeed in life… Later, Steve |
"if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime… giving them a fish, (lots) gives them no incentive to succeed in life…" Sc2- unfortunately, there are people who simply want the fish caught, cleaned AND cooked for them at NO CHAARGE - yet STILL COMPLAIN! Thank goodness we have a space with boxes that reproduce music, so we can temporarily forget we just gave up more of our hard earned cash. Just 360 days left, and we get to do it AGAIN! |