Well, it started off with me disappointed that I'll have to put off getting the Tech Das for yet another year.
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The 2008 housing crisis was set up in the mid-90's under Clinton by his pals Barney Frank, Andrew Cuomo and many others. Republican Phil Gramm is not without blame too. GWB just continued the Clinton years' push to have unqualified Americans buy homes and have Fannie and Freddie buy up all the bad loans and take the risk away from their pals at the banks. Read the book Architects of Ruin to see how it played out. Plus, the balanced budget was done through accounting tricks and was only done after Gingrich took over Congress, (who actually controls the purse strings) and forced Clinton into a spending compromise. You say my tax rate decrease statement is not true (it comes straight from gov't site) then you contradict yourself by saying the tax rate decrease was only 10%. You can't have it both ways. BTW, no laws are permanent. I'm getting the feeling you're still under the spell of the blue vs. red dichotomy. Eventually you may see that reality is a certain set of elites vs. us. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's straight from the Davos crowd's own mouth in the book The Great Reset, subsequently followed up by The Great Narrative. You may still be able to find a free copy of the former on the Web. Basically, the world is one big propaganda machine with different factions of sociopaths looking to satisfy their psychological need to force their will onto the proletariat. We are pawns in their game. Some people understand that, most don't.
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@jssmith Thank you. I feel better now. |
Wah, wah, wah...poor baby...all of you privileged audiophiles - stop your whining and opining; quit your kevetching and wretching. Just fork-over your taxes and keep it moving. Someone has to pay for this best-in world-military, amber waves of grain, and Goofy. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s." Just make certain Trump does so as well. |
Well, that's the state's fault for taxing too much, not Trump's. That's another reason I'd never live in NY or California. But that tax change usually only affects the more affluent because lower incomes or those without debt usually take the standard deduction. And if they don't, the tax rate cut would more than make up for the lose of deductibility for most people. So any way you look at it, unlike what the poster implied, most people paid less under Trump. Doesn't matter. One way is just pushing us toward financial collapse faster than the other.
Sounds like a good plan. As for the market, eh, yeah I got monkey-hammered, but it was not unexpected. Rate hike effects are predictable. Just wait until these hikes obliterate all the false wealth people thought they had in their house. Meanwhile, my Dividend Aristocrats are still generating the same income they were the day before. |
Does everyone at least have their system playing as it should? Listen to some uplifting music because today’s market beating was a good one. OUCH! "Not so fast. Retirement takes more planning to avoid taxes. Take too much in regular dividends and capital gains and you’ll still be paying them." jssmith- Who said anything about being "tax free?" That’s laughable! I plan on paying taxes for 33 years after my FRA. After that, I’m blowing the rest on a rented Ferrari to Vegas and strippers. |
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Not so fast. Retirement takes more planning to avoid taxes. Take too much in regular dividends and capital gains and you'll still be paying them. Some people who didn't plan ahead thought they'd be swimming in tax-free investment income during retirement, but are unpleasantly surprised. Fax ... lol ... I get it.
BTW, to the misinformation above, Trump lowered the tax rates for those making $10,000 - 216,000 and for couples to $432,000. Look it up. There's a difference between not liking someone and spreading misinformation because you don't like someone. |
@bigtwin +1 |
I’m going to go out on a limb here. Let’s all stop our bitching about politics and paying taxes. We should all just thank (insert name of your preferred fictitious character here) that we have incomes and need to pay taxes. Millions out there would love to have our problems. Getting off my soapbox now. |
"if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime… giving them a fish, (lots) gives them no incentive to succeed in life…" Sc2- unfortunately, there are people who simply want the fish caught, cleaned AND cooked for them at NO CHAARGE - yet STILL COMPLAIN! Thank goodness we have a space with boxes that reproduce music, so we can temporarily forget we just gave up more of our hard earned cash. Just 360 days left, and we get to do it AGAIN! |
Agreed I am the opposite… Everybody born has been given the opportunity to strive and succeed… some quit, some fail and quit, and some persevere over and over… then some are born with a silver spoon and others are just lucky… I dislike the fact of supporting people beyond a reasonable low income who are just plain lazy and milk the system. I am a uneducated guy, who worked very hard to achieve success and still do… when I have to pay 40% of my income in taxes, which wasn’t easy to come by, I feel nothing for the unfortunate… but ill thoughts… I was in their shoes once and pressed on….those that are disabled is another story… I don’t like forced charity… I show no favor to politicians either… there’s a saying… if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime… giving them a fish, (lots) gives them no incentive to succeed in life… Later, Steve |
So, regardless of how we as a society have landed where we are fiscally...not agreeing with or shooting holes in your treatise...wouldn't you agree that there are only three levers that we can utilize to address the federal budget: Tax receipts, utilization of debt and government spending? No one would disagree that waste, greed, corruption, good intentions, well meaning but poorly executed programs...they all exist. Neither you nor I started that and its unlikely we have participated in their perpetuation. All I was saying in general was the collective "we" only have a few tools to address the issues.
I'm kindof a rule follower, corny I know but that's what scouting, growing up in a military family, church, community...you get the drift....will do to you. I have managed to shed much of what I wasn't terribly comfortable with over the years. Most of us here on Audiogon have been fortunate financially. We benefitted from the recent tax cuts, we benefit in many case from the tax benefits of home ownership, we benefit from favorable tax treatment of long-term capital gains and in some cases, the treatment of windfall short-term income being treated as long term capital gains. We benefit from asset appreciation during these inflationary times for while many are struggling to buy food, gasoline or pay rent many of us have seen our (on paper) net worth skyrocket.
So, I'm not saying I have the answers but it isn't the fault of the less fortunate that you and I are likely benefitting disproportionately in the current system. I've said this before but, generally speaking, the less fortunate don't pay enough into the system to build schools, roads, hospitals let alone the amounts necessary to defend this amazing country and its citizens. |
The United States is supposed to stand for Freedom & Liberty, last I checked, we’re ranked 34th in the world…
A few parables or idioms first… which apply to your question…
When one jumps on a Merry-go-round, where does one expect to go… A frog placed in boiling water will immediately try to save itself, but one placed in cool water that is gradually brought to a boil will not notice the heat until it is boiled to death. Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities… History is always written by the winners… Yellow journalism - Sensationalistic journalism with the main goal of attracting attention and readers, rather than presenting an unbiased account of the news. A bad policy is only a perception… so ignorance is bliss.
We have a two party (government) system… both want to control the country… How does a party create more power for themselves?
The Democrats (currently) base their goals ( ideology) on the needs of the people, charity, retribution, forgiveness, planet and any other opposite point of view of recent past behavior … in order to stay in power they need to make ( or create ) these people… who doesn’t like free money, free food, free housing… free anything… it makes them popular (and powerful as they hold the purse strings ), as there are many poor people now days…
The Republicans (currently) base their goals ( ideology) on the (so-called) capitalist point of view, business growth, free markets, safety, freedom of choice, to allow people to make and save money… they stay in power because they try to make everyone rich and independent.
A sad clash ( or choice to live in)… for a majority of the populous, about 95%**, the two ideologies in a nut shell are… Monetary Servitude or Monetary Slavery I simply find it amazing, that black people are mostly democrats, everything they did to become free men in the US, are happy to be a Monetary Slave now… they will have nothing more than what their Master is giving them… Monetary Servitude is taxation… ** the remaining 5% can live off savings without working AND get free government benefits… a cherry life.
95% of all people in the Executive Branch are there for the money or the power… not to make the country a better place to live… conflict for the country / people is good business…
Closing the budget gap, it doesn’t benefit the business model… as obviously, it keeps them in power… if there is debt, somebody has to pay or lose… and it will be Freedom we all lose… eventually, while they are filthy rich at our expense….
Tell me something, what kind of government do you think we would have if a Replicator device, like on Star Trek existed? Who would have the power, would money exist… Who would work, when one could sit on the beach and watch the bunnies hop by… those in power need someone to support them… hence the current policies.
It will be interesting when the Elon Musk’s robots become prevalent… if we make it that far…
I could go on, but if you don’t get it by now… it’s not about money, it’s about servitude and slavery… Misinformation and misdirection is key in this business model… Keep them under your thumb and dumb, then they can’t question you with authority…
Steve |
I know right? Here's the rub...its easy to follow the money: About two-thirds of the tax dollars paid by Americans each year goes to Medicare etc, Social Security payments and unemployment payments. About 20-25% goes to Defense, Interest on the national debt. Various other programs taking up about 8-10%. Everything else is funded by, you guessed it, debt. I cant imagine how the federal "budget" would look without low interest rates....
Both sides of the aisle should raise our taxes, get spending in check and reduce/eliminate our dependence on deficit spending. As a nation, we haven't taken advantage of the low rates, we've just enjoyed them.
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Would like to see more transparency about how tax dollars are used. Probably would be too revealing. Lots must be spent dealing just with red tape and legalities not to mention having to deal with shysters like Trump who spend their whole lives costing other people time and money with their lies and lack of ethics. It’s the taxpayers these days who have to pay just to keep the house in order. Imagine the time and money wasted. |
@ghasley , under a VAT system there are ways to protect those at the bottom of the ladder for food and cloths. In this system if you paid more in taxes you made more money so in a sense be happy that your tax bill is higher. Most people have it easy. They are W2ed. Self employed people have to pay quarterly and have much higher exposure to the process not to mention what we spend on accountants. One issue I find very irritating is the lay thought that wealthy people dodge taxes. That is BS of the highest order. The vast majority of wealthy people have no idea what is going on. They pay whatever their accountants tell them to pay. Criminals dodge taxes. Wealthy law abiding citizens do not and have no need to. I do not mind paying taxes. I mind what my taxes are spent on. I would love to buy a missile to fly up Putin's a-s. I do not like paying for artists to make offensive art. |
The more poor people out there... The less complaints about taxation... thus... the goal. Taxation started out at 1% of your labored income... The government greed is overwhelming nowadays... redistribution of wealth is a bad policy... but why... I refer to my first sentence... A flat tax levels the playing field for all, no more gimmicks, you work, you pay tax, you don't work, you don't pay tax... this dictates the governments monetary policy, so naturally a flat tax is insufficient for their spending habits... fiscal responsibility does not equate to the government... as they want (need) to keep the poor people at bay, so they give them your money, to cover up their bad policies...
Steve |
I am thrilled at the privilege to pay my fair share of taxes each year for the privilege to live in a great country. Far from perfect I know but maybe the least imperfect scenario going.
To everyone wishing for a national sales/VAT tax, it places an undue burden on those who spend everything to make ends meet. A flat tax simply doesnt cut it either, too much income is passive and doesnt end up in a bin that can be taxed under any of the proposed methods to date.
I should be paying more…most of us should. |
I think the Europeans have this one right. VAT makes sense on several levels. You make the choice to pay taxes when you purchase XYZ, the IRS has to collect from several million businesses instead of 330 million of us, and lastly the wealthy spend more money so a VAT system is very progressive. If you want Americans to save money punish them for spending not working! |
Taxes, taxes...and more taxes! You people outside of California have it easy. We get hammered, then hammered some more AND we have to be mindful of EVERYTHING that comes out of our mouths because someone is gonna get offended and label you a HATER/AGITATOR! I'm exaggerating a little bit, but not much. I
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I’ve always wondered what would happen if we flipped the income tax amounts. Pay our states and local municipalities what we pay the Feds, and pay the Feds what we do our states and local municipalities.
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I’m not sure Musk cares one way or another about Trump’s access to Twitter, but one never knows what the oligarchs are up to these days. The congress critters are worthless, you have that very correct. They all stay too long and leave multi-millionaires. It has never been about R vs. D, but us vs. them. I don’t pay attention to what they say, but what they actually do. Outside of a few wedge issues that are used to keep the tax slaves divided, there is marginal difference between the two parties. This will be my parting shot, as it isn’t considered "polite company" to discuss politics in this country any longer... suffice it to say that we paid far too much throughout the year and then had to pony up even more come filing time. |
getting our moneys worth? Those worthless people in the House and Senate that do nothing but go at each other do nothing for the taxpayers, yet their average income is $160000.00+ a year. I wish I could have had a job that paid that for not doing anything. Then you got people like Musk who can buy anything and now wants to buy Twitter so trump can have his platform back. We supposedly middle class are being taken for one big, long ride. |
@artemus_5 Thinking that may not happen as he cannot even get the Fed Funded. I agree 100% with your post. Fed Sales Tax that way everyone pays even those who do not report income. |