Hi @fastfreight

The path from lightning surges to Ethernet connected devices like a TV or streamer or PC is like this:

Outside copper cable --> cable modem --> Wifi router (which also has an Ethernet switch) --> All Ethernet connected devices

So if I can prevent a surge from making the jump from the cable modem to the wifi router then I’ve protected most of my Ethernet connected devices from Ethernet based surges. I also use an outside gas discharge tube on the coax as well as an Ethernet isolator at the end of my two long Ethernet runs.

Of course, this has nothing to do with lightning surges which can occur in the power lines. For that I use a whole house surge protector in combination with point of use surge protectors made by either Tripp Lite or Furman, or when UPS powered have to rely on the surge protectors built into the UPS.

In my mind, it’s not just about protecting the Wifi router (which is a giant PITA to replace) but about protecting anything I have that relies on copper Ethernet cables. I use a lot of Ethernet on streamers and PC’s so the worst case scenario for me is to lose a lot of devices all at once because lightning came in from the cable Internet provider.

Any copper wire that goes from outside to inside can be a lightning source that once inside can jump to any other copper connected device. Antennas should also be surge protected. I had a DirecTV antenna and receiver which would fail due to wind induced surges (electrons would build up on the antenna and build a charge). Once I put a surge protector on it the problem went away.

An Ethernet connected device like a music streamer or PC may have 2 lightning paths, one from the AC and another from the Ethernet and we have to protect both. 

Hi @erik_squires following up on 

Fiber optic cables, lacking in any metal components, cannot transmit an electrical surge from point to point.

For this reason I use a fiber converter between the cable modem and Wifi router.  There are still potential paths through the AC wiring, but that's dealt with by a UPS with surge protection. 

so this would stop electrical surge into the WiFi router?  But only into the WiFi router?  Are you using Ethernet cable from your modem to your audio gear?

I am just wondering why only protecting the WiFi router..or is it because you have fiber coming into an ONT prior to your modem so that is already not going to get hit?      Thanks!

I have Comcast. I’ve always used my own equipment. Currently using

Arris SB8300 modem and Asus RT-AX88U Router 

Have you considered a fiber media converter set up?

I added a switch right before my DAC and put the media converter /streamer bundle from  Small Green Computer. It changed my entire listened experience.  
I’ve recently upgraded to their top tier but do have the bundle in a box.  If your Interested or have questions let me know.  It basically cleans up all the “noise” from your router and give a pin quiet signal to the DAC 

@mitch2 Yes, we do know.  Fiber optic cables, lacking in any metal components, cannot transmit an electrical surge from point to point.

For this reason I use a fiber converter between the cable modem and Wifi router.  There are still potential paths through the AC wiring, but that's dealt with by a UPS with surge protection. 

The other place where Ethernet can pick up a surge is if the cabling is long.  It acts as an antenna, and the longer the cable the higher a surge voltage can build up.  Of course, whether this matters to you depends very much on where you live.  First year I moved here we had several strong lightning storms which took out multiple neighbors cable modems, and a laptop of mine (via the power cord).

@erik_squires 

"Because I do use Ethernet for much of my gear, a lightning surge from outside could take out all my entertainment devices (TVs, streamer, HT processor, DVD player.... etc.) and my gaming PC which is why I’m extra cautious."

Do you, or anyone else, know whether a fiber optic line connection (instead of Ethernet) would prevent problems in the event of a lightning strike?

OP: I just switched from Comcast to Quantum fiber.  As a result, I have a Synology RT2600ac router and an Arris Surfboard SB6183 modem just sitting here unused.  If interested, shoot me a note with an address and I'll send them to you to see if it meets your needs.  At the time I bought them, the modem was on Comcast's approved equipment list, and it all worked fine for streaming.

fastfreight

I was then able to demo the Switch X in my home. Having it in my system and then not for a bit was revealing.

An in-home demo is the ultimate test. It’s something I plan to eventually try with a Switch X or similar product.

 

 

baconboy

Is anyone in a similar situation who has purchased a modem with voice that they’re happy with?

I use Vonage VOiP with the Netgear CM500 modem. No problems.

Because my better-half insists on having a land line telephone number we’re using the standard Xfinity rented modem with voice for 400 mb service. Is anyone in a similar situation who has purchased a modem with voice that they’re happy with?

@fastfreight Are you selling that ridiculously priced Switch X?  Looking at their website I can see they've made some simplistic changes in capacitors, but otherwise it's a standard 8 port switch.  The "improvements", as much as they are, seem small and mostly outside the audible range.

I like TP-Link and Asus routers, just generally. I do usually keep a separate modem and wifi router.

One thing to watch out for is if you have a copper connection from the service provider to your modem (i.e. coaxial or Ethernet). Lightning surges from outside the home can jump from there to all directly connected devices. I use a combination of a gas discharge surge protector outside, an Ethernet to fiber connection between the modem and the router, as well as Ethernet isolators at the end of very long (30’ or more) runs.

Because I do use Ethernet for much of my gear, a lightning surge from outside could take out all my entertainment devices (TVs, streamer, HT processor, DVD player.... etc.) and my gaming PC which is why I’m extra cautious.

If you are not in a densely populated area, and you select an unused Wifi channel though, Wifi can be great, and impervious to lightning surges the same way Ethernet is.

Hi @cleeds ,  I first heard the Switch X at CAF.  GTT's room sounded better than most, even with modest equipment.  I was then able to demo the Switch X in my home.  Having it in my system and then not for a bit was revealing.

carlsbad2

... Now the audio system will plug directly into the modem ...

For all kinds of reasons, including security and the ability to set static IP addresses, the only thing I plug into my cable modem is a router. I have Comcast and have used a Netgear CM500 modem for years without issue. With the network configured that way, it’s easy to isolate the source of any speed or stability problem.

My Bryston BDP-3 streamer is hardwired ethernet direct to the router, which is at the far end of the house. It’s amazing how a skilled electrician can snake wires through walls to accommodate that, and I’m convinced that no wi-fi is the equal of a wired network. It’s worth the one-time cost to have it done, and my audio system looks neater without all that computer stuff in the room, imo.

I’m skeptical about products such as the Switch X. But I’ve never tried it so I have to reserve judgment. After all, in a world far away, I once believed cables wouldn’t make a difference.

I got a Netgear CM1000 modem to replace my Spectrum supplied modem.  I use Ifi low noise power supplies with both the modem and mesh router.  I didn't hear much of a difference myself but since this modem performs better, ie less dropouts, fewer problems, I kept it.  Plus the modem paid for itself in about a year by dropping my ISP's lease payment for use of their modem.  Ethernet cables, I found make a difference.  I prefer silver plated and also found the best ethernet cable should be at the streamer.    

Hi @carlsbad2 ,  I will retract 'snarky'!  Would love to hear a Lampi DAC like yours in my system.  I see we both share the Grimm.  Have you seen GTT's  internal MU1 modification  with a new Realization ethernet cable?  Bill states it is an easily heard upgrade.  I have done it with another cable (and it is easy to hear), but my KS is coming.  I think any good ethernet cable inside the Grimm vs the generic one is an upgrade.  It plugs in at both ends with a standard ethernet plug, and is either 13" or shorter depending upon the MU1 version.  I have learned that it is THE LAST cable before your streamer that matters the most.  So no matter what cable (or filter) employed prior to the Grimm, the internal stock cable degrades it.

@lalitk , +1 on the LinkUp 22g cat 8 cable.  I had initially run Supra cat 8 (my runs are about 40 feet) and the LinkUp is better.  I got this from you a bit ago, thanks!

Reasonable cost also from Amazon.

Thanks for the coaching @fastfreight .  You're quite a role model. 

@carlsbad2 said:

There may be other options but this thread is about modems.  

That snarky remark was inappropriate and obtuse.  I  have ventured down the road of a better and new Modem, and like others, stayed with (in my situation) a Verizon 1G modem with a linear power supply.  The Switch X acts as a SECOND MODEM creation a network in your home completely separate from you provider network.  It is this  CLEAN NETWORK which improves the sound by eliminating all your home network traffic (significant unless you have 0 devices in your home).  This approach form me has clearly improved the sound, better than adding any other switch I have tried after the heretofore discussed modems.  So anyone considering buying an expensive modem to replace their Verizon or Comcast modem should consider this.

@fuzztone , 

"Copy the "no difference in SQ"

You are free to spend like there is no tomorrow"

Well my Verizon G100 modem was FREE, and my system does sound better with the Switch X.  I can easily hear it.  That makes a difference.  Enjoy the music.

OK.  I just pulled the trigger on a Netgear Nighthawk.  Docsis 3.1 and 2 gigabyte internet ports.  I see some modems that can handle higher speeds up to 2.5GB but in my neighborhood service seems to max at 350MB/sec.  The tech mentioned that they would have to pull fiber before they can go faster than that.  It is difficult to upgrade in my neighborhood as everything is underground. Looks much better but not easy to modify.

One thing that I did make sure my new modem has is 2 ports.  The Spectrum (Comcast) modem only has one port so my cable to my audio system has to plug into my router.  Now the audio system will plug directly into the modem.

It will be here this afternoon.  Wish me luck.

Jerry

@nyonalake 

I feel your pain, as a Comcast customer for the last 7-8 years I tried to go the route of buying my own cable modem to save some money on rental fees.  When I decided to buy a modem instead of renting I tried the cheap way first and got a Comcast compatible modem for around 80 bucks, that was a total fiasco with all kinds of connection problems.  Then I got the bright idea to go with a top of the line Motorola that was the fastest thing I could find, the cost was somewhere between 5 to 6 hundred bucks at the time, so certainly not just any old modem.  The problem was, from the start I had connection issues with the new modem, when I had a good connection it was blazing fast, so I just dealt with those issues for around 3 to 4 years.  I had to constantly reboot all the devices connected in my home to make everything work which was a pain but I was still saving some money so I kept rebooting everything.

I finally got fed up with all the connection problems and the constant rebooting, so I went to our local Comcast/Xfinity store and picked up their latest modem.  Since hooking the new Xfinity modem up to run my internet my connections issues are gone, and the new Xfinity modem is faster than the Motorola was.

  So, here is my opinion on running a modem while on Comcast/Xfinity service that you are not paying them to rent.....they intentionally cause the connection issues with modems that you don't rent from them just so you will finally get tired of it and do exactly what I did-rent from them.  I can't prove any of that so of course this is only my opinion, but since I am renting from them again all my connection issues have pretty much disappeared.  Hope this help, good luck if you do decide to buy your own modem.

Someone else mentioned the Netgear NightHawk modem and I second that.  I have used one for a number of years with no issue. It is Comcast compatible. Model CM2000.  The router and all network components are Synology. 
 

I also use the iFi LAN I Silencer product in various spots on the network and do think it made a positive impact on music streaming/playback. You might even give this a try before you upgrade equipment. 
https://ifi-audio.com/products/lan-isilencer/

@fastfreight

WOW! I didn’t realize that you’re using Switch X in series with Gold and Muon Pro. When my Apple routers started to cause dropouts, I went with 50FT LinkUp CAT8 22AWG LAN between my Comcast/Infinity modem and Gold switch. No issues since this transition, even when I’m streaming DSD files that requires very stable network. The direct hard wired connection also ensures zero compromises and less clutter in my space. I also upgraded my network speed to 1Gb/s. 

I bought the motorola 8702 which has docsis 3.1 it’s faster has a bigger buffer, 

what’s very important is that junk $5 wall wart ,you need a linear power supply 

I bought on Audiogon the Linear Tube Audio LPS and its excellent much cleaner sounding and much more musical with all the noise removed.

most modern rough terms are around 4 amp , this LPS can go as high as 8 amp 

and comes with a excellent DC cable going to the router most charge $150,and 

buy a decent power cord like the Pangea  sig mk2 awg14

  for $700 it beats anything under $1200

and also gives a better picture too to the tv Roku  which I like better with voice commands , Qobuz sounds much better .

and buy a quality Ethernet hub and cables 

DX Engineering ISO-PLUS Ethernet RF Filters DXE-ISO-PLUS-2 is this interesting?

I've been curious about the Synergistic Research Network Router UEF here. 

Although it's nice to have more options sometimes this hobby uncomfortably tugs at the wallet

Copy the "no difference in SQ"

You are free to spend like there is no tomorrow.

There may be other options but this thread is about modems.   

Hi @lalitk !  I have the Muon Pro filter just before my streamer.  I too love the M12 gold.  Adding the Switch X and keeping the M12 is the bomb!  

+1, @fastfreight

Instead of purchasing mass produced modem/switch that is not designed specifically for audio streaming…keep your Comcast/Infinity and add a high quality switch that specifically design for audio to filter noise. Consider adding Network Acoustics Muon Pro Filter between your comcast/infinity modem and your streamer. I am using a Telegartner Gold Switch with LPS and haven’t felt the need to upgrade in over 3 years.

@KR4 I am not recommending in line extenders! I am recommending wifi extenders.

OP, yes streaming has come a long way. My streaming system sound quality is the same as my vinyl playback… and both are very very good and in my investment level are about the same cost.

I’ve recently been introduced to streaming by my partner in XtremeFidelity.

i was the vinyl guy, not wanting anything to do with this internet thing.

i now spend 6 months in Florida.the system I’ve put together is amazing. 
each new upgrade component I’ve inserted in the chain just peels back more of the “crap”.

im to the point that I question whether I have an modern/router good enough.

System:

Bonn NX , Tidal Contros, Tidal Intra, Tidal Piano G3s, all Siltech 880 loom.

all components plugged into Equitech 2RQ.

Arris SURFboard modem and Orbi mesh with Comcast/Xfinity here.

Compatibility is simple, just check - most are compatible.

No problems whatsoever over several years. When these reach EOL I would consider upgrading within the same brands.

The Orbi mesh base router has ethernet ports. I wire one of them to a switch and then hardwire from the switch to my server (which is in the network room).  There is fiber in-line between the switch and the server for isolation. Also, hardwire from the switch to my streamer (which is in my system room) using fiber for isolation. Two other music systems have endpoints hardwired via short Ethernet cables to the two Orbi mesh satellites. So, wi-fi to the satellites and then short Ethernet cables to the endpoints.

No noise issues at all.

Good luck.

For Comcast/Xfinity I have been pleased with my Netgear NightHawk modem.

This connects to  Netear Orbi Mesh Router with an optical link to my streaming system. The optical link replaced a 50 foot cat-6 cable which was a rreal improvement.

I've been having internet issues for the past year.  My sound system is hardwried using an audiophile switch and I have little to no problem with it.  but elsewhere in the house wireless has been bad.  I've upgraded my mesh system twice, first to a nigh quality TP-Link mesh and then to an eero because so many friends said they had no problems with it.  Finally I called my cable company  (spectrum).  I have to say I had the best customer service I've had for a while.  A real person answered the phone and scheduled an appointment the next day.  The tech seemed to be very competent.  He replaced the cable from the street to the house and the modem.  Immediately I confirmed that I had no problems.  Life was good.  

Then 2 weeks later I start having the same problems.  I'm thinking the modems they are using aren't great.  Looking at the label on them they are house brand.

So I'm following this thread and if someone recommends a modem I may buy one.

Jerry

I recently upgraded my modem router and am very happy with the performance.

The modem is:

Motorola MB8611 DOCSIS 3.1 Multi-Gig Cable Modem | Pairs with Any WiFi Router | Approved for Comcast Xfinity, Cox Gigablast, Spectrum | 2.5 Gbps Port | 2500 Mbps Max Internet Speeds

And the router:

TP-Link AX3000 WiFi 6 Router – 802.11ax Wireless, Gigabit, Dual Band Internet, VPN Router, OneMesh Compatible

Total cost for both was $340 from Amazon and getting download speeds of 230+ mbps here. Sorry for the massive type on my copy/paste not sure how to reduce the font.

Yeah, as @fastfreight mentioned you’re probably better off trying a good switch between your router and system and not deal with cable modem issues/support — who needs that potential hot mess?  Also agree with others who mentioned using Mesh or a Wi-Fi extender rather than running Ethernet cables through walls.  Best of luck.

Orbi Mesh routers. I own one and they are excellent.  
 

Orbi Mesh routers

Internet service certainly varies and customer services is a thing of the past. That being said, my G3100 Modem delivers over 800 mps with my Verizon gigabit service.  I run it with a good linear power supply and have no wall warts in my computer audio circuit.

But to clean up the signal for very good audio. I now have the GTT Group Switch X.  Like several others, it is a good audiophile ethernet switch that cleans up the signal.  But the Switch X goes beyond this creating a clean network in your home, that only serves audio.  It works very well, and delivers, to me. a sound superior than any other switch alone I have owned or tried.

After inserting the Switch X between my Verizon modem and my audio feed, the soundstage and imaging greatly improve. I am hearing things well outside my speakers.  The image is super focused, and the sound more holographic.  Bass is better.  It is the real deal.  There is a ton of network noise in your home,  Your phones, laptops, tvs, smart appliances security etc all constantly ping the network.  Getting your audio feed clean from this is what the Switch X does.

Taiko does a similar thing with their Modem and their switch, and recommends them in front of their Extreme server.  Chris' (GTT) Switch X is a bargain.

@ghdprentice I feel your pain with Verizon. Absolutely terrible customer service. I spent hours on the phone with them trying figure out why my gigabit internet sucked. Their routers are just as bad as their customer service. I ended up switching and adding EERO. no issues and awesome coverage throughout the house. Solid and stable. 

I have an outstanding main system and headphone system (see my profile)… that sounds like it is hardwired… but is using wall wart extenders.

That's a very rare recommendation in favor of AC-line extenders.  

After spending years with my own router / modem… the most recent, the $500 versions… and constantly having trouble with them basically caused by Verizon, I finally gave in and had them install a Verizon router. I have good quality Aurrender streamers and none of the three or four different routers, including the Verizon made any difference of sound quality. At all. However, Verizon can no longer point to my modem / router and say, “it is your problem. I can’t trouble shoot your router”.

I recommend sticking with Verizon’s box and upgrading your streamer if you want better sound. 
 

I have an outstanding main system and headphone system (see my profile)… that sounds like it is hardwired… but is using wall wart extenders.

Mesh network like EERO should integrate with your existing router. Unless you’re determined to run wires thru walls.