High end bookshelf speakers for Small room

@grislybutter -- Thank you very much.  I have NO IDEA why anyone would have flagged the comment unless they have a personal beef with Watkins Stereo Center LOL.

All I did was give background on the business (it's been around since 1974), told how William Watkins patented the dual woofer that Infinity bought, mentioned some of the legendary speaker models they have made, and gave info on how the OP could look at their website and buy direct.  It blows me away what the Mods delete sometimes.

I appreciate your info.  I sure as heck am going to inquire why it was removed.  If someone asks about speaker suggestions and the Mods censor brands, that is some royal cow dung (I don't want to use the proper word for fear of being accused of cursing!)

@allenf1963  , I read your post and was intrigued by the speakers (actually I have found myself intrigued by many of the suggestions as not too long ago I was looking to upgrade my existing two ways which are in a small room).  If I remember corectly, based on my limited knowledge regarding efficient and minimum impedance, those looked like they would be a pretty easy load to drive.  If I was still looking for speakers, I'd seriously consider looking at those.  

Anyway, as I typed, I read your post, and nothing I remember reading was objectionable or seemed to cross any lines. As I remember you did state that you were not affiliated with the company, and I've seen likes to different products provided before on other posts.  If you find out why your post was deleted, let us know.

Did not get to read your post involving Watkins product and or service, as I’ve several of their vintage makings I’m always interested in hearing different views concerning, do update. 
Cheers 

@immatthewj and @1971gto455ho -- Thank you for your kind words and interest in my post. I took the advice of @grislybutter and opened a ticket to ask Audiogon why my post regarding Watkins Stereo Center and their Generation 4 speakers was removed by the Mods. This is the reply I received:

Aug 25, 2024, 9:40 AM EDT

Allen,

It was removed because it appeared to selling in the forums.
Your post had links to the Manufacturer’s website.

I typically avoid conflict and let sleeping dogs lie. The two links that I included did nothing but show the awards Watkins Stereo has received over the years from leading audio magazines, gave the technical specs of the Generation 4 speakers, showed the direct price and woods available, and gave some history on the late William Watkins, Sr. -- a legend in audio for anyone from Upper East Tennessee, SW Virginia, or Western North Carolina. His Dual Woofer design (a patent that was sold to Infinity in the late 1970’s and used in the Infinity Reference Speaker line) made the WS-1, WS-1E, and WE-1 speakers an incredible value and put little old Kingsport, TN, on the audio map. From the reply, it’s obvious nobody clicked my links.

More irritating, however, is this thread currently has TWENTY OTHER RESPONSES WHICH INCLUDE LINKS TO MANUFACTURERS WEBSITES OR SITES SELLING BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS. So why was my posts singled out? Because Watkins Stereo doesn’t advertise on Audigon and only sells Direct to the consumer? I just believe what’s good for the Goose is good for the Gander. So if 19 other people can include links to product pages, I should be given the same courtesy.

The soapbox has now been destroyed, burned, and the ashes spread as fertilizer. The soup bone is also consumed. @saurabhgarg, good luck in your speaker search, and if this thread survives, let us know what you buy. Just don’t include links .

@allenf1963 that's outrageous and insulting. This is a forum where members discuss audio products. Not cloud formations and swimming techniques. As a result, they will communicate by mentioning those products and include links to their web sites. Why it would violate anything (non-existing rule), harm audiogon's interests is beyond me. 

I let my blood pressure go through the roof many times arguing about moderation. It's only getting worse. Unpredictable, illogical, not conducive to anything healthy and sane.

@grislybutter -- I appreciate the support. I’m glad to know I’m not the only person that gets aggravated over undue censorship. If I was trying to bypass Audiogon’s ability to earn revenue, it would be one thing. But, as you said, how else are we supposed to pass along information??

End of story. Audiogon did put my original post back up...but they REMOVED the links that the OP could have used to locate the website easier. Watkins Stereo is the epitome of "Mom and Pop", so it does take some searching unless you know exactly what to search for -- but man oh man, those Gen 4 are worth searching!

Thanks for your assistance and have a great week.

It was removed because it appeared to selling in the forums.

You gotta be kidding me!  Audiotroy actively and shamelessly push their products here every day and their posts never get removed.  Absurd.  Absolutely absurd. 

There have been some worthy suggestions, but I might add:

Yamaha NS 5000's

Wilson Benesch 3zero's

Subs may not be required particularly in your room due to its size.

Happy hunting!

I hear amazing things about the TADs.  I doubt you would go wrong.  I would be cautious in a small room with Borreson.  His speakers are notoriously difficult to place and don't always work well in smaller spaces.  I have had issues personally with Raidho designs of his.  

Check out Wilson Benesch, Marten and Vimberg.  All brilliant smaller speakers.  I have the Discover3Zero on display and the beauty of the bottom ported design through the stand is that it allows for closer placement to the wall while not losing any performance.  

I know Marten and Vimberg have awesome monitors

Full disclosure, I am a dealer for Wilson Benesch and Raidho, I have no relationship with any of the other brands.  

@verdantaudio I have heard great things about Raidho. For now I am planning to give ME-1 a shot. Lot of good reviews and great product

I'm surprised no one has mentioned one of the finest,truly small monitors EVER made,the ProAc Tablette Anniversary..With the right amp I would put them up against ANY small monitor under $10,000.00..

what is this pattern with "I am surprised no one has mentioned X"?

There are nearly a 1000 well known speaker companies in the developed world, whose responsibility is it to mention all the relevant (relevant to every random member of the forum) ones under each post?

@verdantaudio +1 I have a lot of respect for your opinions. I’m curious if you have heard the Seawave Acoustic AM 23 monitors? The build/parts quality is equal to any manufacturer and IMO surpasses Borresen’s/Raidho's best monitor.

@dayglow I have never heard them. I will try and make a point to get to hear them at a show.

In just looked at these out on the website.  OMG they are gorgeous.  If they sound as good as they look….

TAD is a great choice!

@freediver I sooo apologize if I upset you. It seems you are the supersensitive between the two of us, so I will avoid any subject that pushes your buttons in the future. 

Aerial Acoustics 5T are great speakers.  If you like those, I'd recommend adding NSMT 15SE to the list.  To me, it's the 5T with more transparency (lower noise floor/darker background), more solid soundstaging (placement of singer/instruments) and a bit more "boogie" to the music.  I've listen both with vocals (Eva Cassidy, Beck), indie rock, EDM (LCD Soundsystem) and all sound wonderful where the NSMT 15SE was definitely a qualitative upgrade from the 5T.

I am digressing- but any views on the Hegel H590? I might be able to get one for a decent price.

regards,

Manu

I've heard everything mentioned except for TAD and Raidho and recommend the B&W 805 D4 or even the D3.  Spooky realism and resolution.  Lov' em.  

ProAc has been mentioned previously, but I like the ProAc Tablette 10's and 2 REL T/5x subs for that room. They work wonderfully together in a smaller room.

I’ve been disappointed with most bookshelf speakers that I’ve owned. I compare everything to sonics of good floor standers. Funny thing is most bookshelf speakers when put on stands, have footprint of floor standers anyway!
My small room is about 13x13. 
I purchased Von Schweikert Endeavour’s. Just amazing. Didn’t pop for auto finish colors, saved about $4k. Went with black stain on Ash. Amazing sound with McIntosh MA8900.  Can grow into separates with these speakers down the road. 
 

Just a thought 

tshatk

dallas Tx USA 

I’ve been disappointed with most bookshelf speakers that I’ve owned. I compare everything to sonics of good floor standers. Funny thing is most bookshelf speakers when put on stands, have footprint of floor standers anyway! My small room is about 13x13. I purchased Von Schweikert Endeavour’s. Just amazing. Didn’t pop for auto finish

@tshark ...this very straightforward sentence has been very hard for many audiogoldenears  to comprehend forever (later on, some lil weeny bookshelf on a rickety lil stand will defy all physics and do them some kinda miracle, apparently). The cable and dac can be enormous however.

Those Endeavors are quite good in their own right , though facing some stiff competition these days.

@saurabhgarg I have heard the TAD ME-1 and it is an excellent speaker. Use some warm gear with it for that Beryllium driver. However, I thought it would be too much for my small office, unless I used DSP or more treatments. My dealer for this speaker also said it may be a mistake to get the ME-1 for my 12 x 11 x 9 room but  I have 4 extra feet from a removed closet door.

When I had my KEF LS50 Meta in this room it needed acoustic treatments to make it work with my KEF KC62 sub. It was a great setup for the price. 

My current Magnepan LRS+ and KEF KC62 sub is a better fit in the small room. I removed the first reflection panels for this speaker and the sound stage is massive. with a lot of depth. It is not as revealing as the ME-1 or the LS50 Meta. I understand Magnepan has a more expensive iteration of this speaker that is supposed to be more detailed (or it could be the speaker one step above the LRS+).

I have not head this LRS+ 'clone' yet but it is supposed to be better and perfect for a small room. 
Diptyque audio - Hauts-parleurs plans Haute-Fidélité - DP 115

I wanted to hear the new

Clarisys PICCOLO

but was not able to, but did hear the $65k top end model with a $100k CH Precsion amp. It sounded really good, and the Piccolo would work in a small room.

OUR MODELS (clarisysaudioglobal.com)

Another option and one I will make soon is the RAAL 1995 Immanis ($10k) headphones for a small room. Drop the room from consideration.

@perazzi28 You need a big room for the NS5000 unless you use DSP or a lot of treatment. I have it in a big space and would never try it in the small office. The NS5000 is a "bookshelf" in name only. it is a huge speaker. The real bookshelf NS3000 may work in the small space but I have not been able to hear it. Only place that I know where you can get it is in Canada and they did not have it on the floor for demo.

@tshark ...this very straightforward sentence has been very hard for many audiogoldenears to comprehend forever (later on, some lil weeny bookshelf on a rickety lil stand will defy all physics and do them some kinda miracle, apparently). The cable and dac can be enormous however.

Are there any stand mounted small speakers that you are actually familiar with?

Those Endeavors are quite good in their own right 

I am sure that your Def Leppard CDs do sound good played back on those speakers.

@tshark 

dont forget the op has a small room.  

to your point i love the sound a subwoofer makes and have a hunch they can integrate well with a dynamic larger bookshelf like b&w 805 for example. 

i have not been able to 100% integrate subs and floorstanders. 

 a sub and bookshelf combo could be a better overall answer than most floorstanding speakers.  

Op we recommend a speaker designed for a small room with limited bass response

Many of the previous recommended loud speakers are excellent but will over load such a small room

@audiotroy , Could you explain how a very tiny room such as your car's cabin just seems to never get "overloaded", while you've been driving all these years?

Also, what is "overloading" and what does a "overloaded" room sound like? Curious to know...(it could shed some great insight on this phenomenon of "overloading" or something else in acoustics, something psychological, etc).

 Could you explain how a very tiny room such as your car's cabin just seems to never get "overloaded",

Maybe because he isn't running Von Schweikerts for his car audio?  

Guess I should have asked about room size before connecting on the footprint of stand mounts. Good point Avanti!  
 

To imattews - I use B&W 804D3 in another room and tried to go the bookshelf route with Graham & Harbeth. I’m 64 y/o and did grow up on Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, etc but have never listened to Def Leopard. I enjoy most anything except hard rock and Classical. 

Are there any stand mounted small speakers that you are actually familiar with?

 

Those Endeavors are qu

I am sure that your Def Leppard CDs do sound good played back on those speakers.

@immatthewj

Fleff Deppard ain’t my style, but, is this what you’re suggesting? The audiophile beliefs/fad n all...

Dac: washing machine size

Preamp: Fridge size

Power Cable: 6 inch corrugated pipe size

But..................................

Speaker: Rubiks Cube size

Is that the audiophile way? the way of  Matthew?

I’ll pass...

But, forget the Fleff Deppard for a minute and play this on the Rubiks cube sized speaker. You don’t even need a sub. I am sure your full range Rubiks cube speaker will take care of it if you put it on a stand.

Snoop Dogg - Sensual Seduction

Believe!

I presently am rocking a pair of PS Audio F5’s. These are some of the best bookshelf I have heard in my room. I own 10 different pair of bookshelf speakers and none of them sound to my ears as good as these. Some are Dynaudio Heritage, special 40, ATC 11, Buchardts SE, kef ls50, and R3 meta to name a few. The F5 sounds like a floor standing speaker in my room.  Very full and transparent. Bass goes very low, even at low volume bass is not wanting. You can tell lot of engineering went into these speakers. I

@deep_333 , reading your posts is probably the same as what cutting one’s self is like. There is nothing to be gained or any other redeeming value to it, but I do it anyway without really knowing why.

Without a doubt, PMC Twenty5.22i's.  I have them and run them through the same integrated you have.  They have a large sound stage and one that is fully rounded.  

I believe that Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers stand apart and above the competition as a small/bookshelf-sized loudspeakers. 

Having to deal with a small room after a move I pretty much have the same size as yours. I’ve had really good luck with the Reference 3a Reflector. It’s not a small speaker for a book shelf but I still run it with a pair of rel subs. I do turn the subs off sometimes for the hell of it. Sounds good with or without. 
 

I’m using a 50 watt class A amp switching between kt120’s and 150’s. If you’re looking for an extra warm slow fuzzy slippers speaker this isn’t it. There is something special about a speaker with no crossover. The 3a is not bright it’s very natural with a big wide deep layered soundstage that goes beyond the outside boundaries of the speaker. It can make bad thin recordings sound better than they should. The best part it plays all types of music very well.
 

I rotate other speakers in but always crave that ref 3a sound, I tend to use these more than the other bookshelf’s. 

I'll also recommend the Reference 3A Reflectors based on your room size and listening preferences.  I downsized my listening room (13 x15), and my Legacy Focus speakers were just too overwhelming.  The stand-mount Reflectors worked perfectly.  I then went with a pair of Coincident Frankenstein 300B monobloc amplifiers, a Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme preamp, and finished it off with the Grimm MU2 (DAC, streamer, ROON server) on a single upright stand.  No more big, honkin' gear with cables running everywhere.  Oh yeah, I added about $5k of acoustic treatment on the walls, ceiling and corners which made a huge improvement on the sound.  As @paulcreed stated, the Reflectors are "not bright it's very natural with a big wide deep layered soundstage that goes beyond the outside boundaries of the speaker."  They are rather heavy, especially with Sound Anchor stands, about 150lbs total, but manageable.

I use Elac Vela BS403 with a NAD2200 in a 25x20 room.  Sounds great

I will say the one speaker I wish I didn't sell was the Silverline Minuet Supreme Plus. Those are something special.

I’m becoming very interested in the Platimons VC One speakers.  Some rave reviews.

I have a Luxman L-509X integrated amp, and it drives my KEF Reference 1 Meta speakers brilliantly in my 13’ x 13’ room. I have an equilateral 10’ triangle of speaker distance from each other and the MLP. The imaging is completely separated from the speakers and almost entirely behind the speakers. It’s just uncanny.

I forgot to mention that although the speakers hit a solid 30hz in my room, I do use a JL Audio E112 subwoofer to augment the output below that.

2 cents time: S-F Electa Amator or Raidho C or D series

The Boressen C1 16 k monitor is exceptionally good if you have the budget. Otherwise the X1 is half the price is very good. The room you have 13x14 is just about right. I have the x1.My x1 will play rock , classical , jazz effortlessly.

OP,with your room size it would be wise for you to check with TAD before laying out $15K on a speaker very likely to overload the room...
After you do find they simply won’t work in that small an environment, look at the sealed cabinet design of the YG Acoustics Tor or Cairn...
"The TAD Micro Evolution One (ME1) speakers are best suited for medium to smaller sized spaces. They can fit in rooms that are roughly 11’ x 17’ to 17.5’ x 26’. However, they are not recommended for filling very large spaces.

Here are some tips for setting up TAD ME1 speakers:

• Position: Place the speakers about 4’ from the wall behind them to avoid adverse reflections.
• Separation: Space the speakers about 8’ apart.
• Distance from listening position: Position the speakers about 9’ from the listening seat.
• Toeing in: Toe the speakers in toward you."

Vandersteen Treo CT. They don't take up any more floor space than a bookshelf/monitor speaker on a stand, and can be placed very close to the front wall.

Or Audio Note. 

AN/K-spe's would be nice.

A pair of original Snell Type K's would be a much better value than the exorbitantly priced Audio Note K's. I have the originals.

I haven’t read all the responses in this thread but I have recently dealt with the same situation as the OP -- finding the perfect high end speakers for a small room.

I’ve set up my system in a small unused bedroom and the Audience Clairaudient 1+1 series V have proven to be ideal in that space. They're about the size of your head. 

There are many rave reviews online about these speakers.

They run about 4k for the pair.

Currently I am using an Audioengine 2+ speaker that I got for $170 last month. It is about the size of the Audience 1+1 that I owned at one time. I had the 1+1 v3.

In the smaller room that I am in now the Audioengine 2+ works better than the Audience 1+1 v3. It is easier to place. I have them on stands BEHIND me. I am using the great KEF KC62 sub with them. The 1+! v3 was the most difficult speaker to place that I owned. I kept the KEF LS50 over the 1+1 since it had less room reflection issues with the LS50 (still a lot to deal with).

Today the Audioengine 2+ are sounding decent with a Benchmark DAC3B,  a Schitt Mjolnir v3 preamp, along with the KC62 sub. Streaming is fibre based with a ROON client. A bit of a crazy setup but it may work for some people.

Saying all of that. I decided to buy a used Magnepan Mini system yesterday. I already have a Sanders Magtech amp (no longer on sale now) and I will replace the 2+ with the Maggies on the stands behind me. The 2+ will go on my desk when I want audio for my YouTube or sports viewing.

The Maggies will work the best of all the speakers I have owned in a small room because they have less reflection issues, I have owned the LRS+ before in a small room (a bit bigger than my current office).

I was considering the JERN speaker that AudioTroy was mentioning before. Again, the speakers would be on stands behind me. That JERN speaker seems like a great small room speaker.

I am also expecting to buy an open baffle desktop speaker from Requisite Audio. I have heard a prototype in June, and it was rather good. I likely should have waited on the Magnepan Mini until I heard the completed open baffle speakers but that will not be a short-term purchase option until I get some cash.

Nothing I’ve heard at any price point, new, used, or even DIY, remotely approaches the performance value of a pre-owned pair of these (the Linbrook monitors):

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650145923-tyler-acoustics-linbrook-monitors-plus-tyler-stands-linbrook-center-channel-and-tyler-acoustic-woddm/

The BOM of those monitors alone is worth more than the asking price. I get that you may not be looking for a value leader per se, but these Tyler models are such ridiculous value IMO that you could end up getting two pair of high end monitors rather than one, or put the savings toward future med expenses (which all of us will have eventually). I recently bought a pre-owned pair of Tyler’s smaller Taylo Ref monitors that utilize the same Seas drivers, along with top-shelf crossover parts. I am astounded at how well they perform for what I paid. I would have no reservations of pitting them against any current </=$10K/pair monitors. They are detailed yet warm, produce no cabinet noise, and are endlessly listenable with ZERO fatigue.