End Game Turntable suggestions

No appreciation for the OriginLive tables?  One rarely sees them on the used market and when they are ... they move extremely fast.  They appear to have a very high cost to performance ratio (big value).  They have a stelar trade in and upgrade policy.  

@musicmatters1206 it's not an advice, just my observation: high-end audio is ugly. Very ugly (subjective/opinion, of course) There are very few exceptions. I thought this 20 years ago when I saw my brother's super expensive British gear and then again every time I visit a dealer. I have seen so many turntables and amps that now I am used to them and think they are less ugly but it's a mystery to me why. I think it's how it evolved, partly cost, partly arrogance. It's kind of like programmer's design of a UI, functional but ugly 9 out of 10 times.

Speakers are less ugly, some are beautiful. I love and own Rega but they are pretty hideous too. My favorite TTs in the looks department are from Clearaudio

+1 @mijostyn - great post.

OP - Even though you have stone floors, I would recommend getting the Rega P10 (or P8 and get a great cartridge which is very close in quality at about 55% of the price) with a suspension externally since one is not built in. You can also get a wall shelf. I have a P8 and put it on a Townshend platform and then on top of a wall shelf. Minimizing vibrations to the maximum extent I can. Platform improved the sound dramatically and the shelf got rid of any foot falls, and I have a suspended floor over a crawl space, so that is critical. Maybe just the suspension will maximize it for you with the stone floors.

If you truly want set it and forget and simplicity of purchase, Rega is the way to go (or if you want to splurge, you can get an SME, but get a IV or V arm). I like an integrated arm/table design. Also there is a unique clamp you can get for the Rega that accommodates the extremely short spindle. I use it on warped records for the maximum impact. It is by a company that also makes the mat I use that minimizes vibration further as the record only is in contact with the mat for a couple square mms. Hexmat eclipse mat and Molekula clamp made in Hungary, but delivery was a snap in the states. Both are a little pricey, but worth it to me. 

I have a Marantz TT15-S1 with a gold ring Eroica XL MC cart. I just ordered a Jeff Spall Tone arm for it. $2000.00 tone arm upgrade will be my end game table.

boothroyd, Thanks for mentioning that Clearaudio use Panzerholz in their upper end plinths.  I did not know that.  But perhaps that is the exception that proves the rule; can you name any other high volume manufacturers that use Panzerholz or a like material?  Please don't confuse my impression of scarcity for one of disapproval.  I am quite sure that Panzerholz is an excellent choice for a build material, but I just don't think it is now or ever will be widely used by the mainstream.

Looks like you are getting an RP-10.  Unfortunate that you do not find the 1200 G attractive.

I could care less about the looks.  I do not need the adjustable speed and all the strobes and flashing lights.  The cover with its little dome is hard to clean and looks ridiculous.  The whole thing screams '80s disco (I hate disco).

The 1200 G is the best turntable on the market in its price range.

Consider the Merrill-Williams REAL. A number of dealers were using them to demo their equipment at AXPONA and it sounded very detailed and tuneful. You might also look at Clearaudio and Acoustic Signature. 

Dealers may have stock of the Merrill but the table is discontinued. The 101.4 was announced but as far as I know never released

Well Tempered Reference would be the best sounding option. Basis Ovation has the best look/sound ratio.

SL-1200 gae 50th anniversary TT

Last you will ever need!

@terry9 You have been investigative with your usage of P'holz. The venture into the unknown has certainly delivered and the good impression made from the use of the material is once more out there to be seen.

I added a info in a previous post that was a mistake, in relation to a Densified Wood the individual was keen to try out who I encouraged to produce an Arm Wand.

I stated Pico Wood, this is a Company in Spain that does a Phenolic Densified Wood.

Now I have seen how investigative you are, I am off the view the wood I should have stated may have an appeal. The following will give a Good Description for your pondering.

The Link is the Brand of Densified Wood I should have stated for an alternative Densified Wood Arm Wand Material.

 

 

Panzerholz is a Trade Name for one Type of Densified Wood.

Densified Woods produced to a Similar Structure to P'holz and using a Phenolic Based Resin are available from a variety of Brands.

No Company has to declare the Materials it is using, it can also apply their own in house name to the Material to protect their IP.

If I were a Commercial Entity, I am not too sure how open I would be about supplying to competitors how the R&D has given the edge, and the Sharing the  information about Bespoke Material choices that has been crucial the the evolvement.

On the Flip Side, if I have nailed the Market and am a 'go to' Brand, the way the Product is described might be a little bit more informative to show the commitment to creative design.   

I have received an inquiry from a US Forum Member only yesterday and have made known to them, Five Brands and the design for the Board that is needed to be a similar Board to P'holz B25.

 The following is a few question and answers from a individual with a Very Long Career at the Cutting Edge of Mainstream Industries.

Their Career started many years past, at Siemens working on solutions to control vibration.

This individual has a ongoing Career in Mainstream Industry and Created a Company that has been producing Speakers that are highly appraised in the Audio World. 

Additionally, the individual remains a Consultant to Industry, especially the Automotive and is employed as a visionary for their future planning. 

There are other Companies that are using Densified Wood, it is to be found mentioned as a Material used in Speakers, which makes sense when seeing the following from the very respected Speaker Producer.

The Individual who created this Company and is very involved in the design for the Product Range, is an Advocate of Densified Wood and its unique properties for managing transferral of energies created during replays of a recording through a Typical Type of design for a Audio System. 

______________________________________________________________

So what is the benefit of tankwood?

Tankwood is very dense and stiff, it has almost the same Young modulus like aluminium (standard not air craft grade). And it is an inhomogeneous material. It starts a 1,4 mm beech veneers slices which are bonded together under enormous pressure and with some 2 component resin.  So there is a correlation to carbon panels, which are carbon fibres embedded in a resin. Here we have wood fibres embedded in a resin.

You can order different alignments between the layers which have different properties to address what kind of mechanical stress (push-pull, bending, torsion) you have in your panel. Most interesting feature compared to homogenous materials like MDF, HDF and aluminium is that the speed of sound in the material is different in each direction. Why? See, the speed of sound in a rigid  material is the square root of Young modulus divided by density.

The young modulus is different in the 3 directions but the density is constant. Therefore the speed of sound is different in each direction leading to a high dispersion of energy so that resonance can not build up so easily.

Please tell us more about your unique internal design? 

All internal braces and panels are designed to have different eigenfrequencies.

We use several approaches to do this, one is to design some dimensions according to the Devine ratio (“Golden ratio in nature”) the other is about modal spacing where we try to use Fibonaci algorithm. 

Furthermore we are implementing an acoustic labyrinth with a billion of possible transfer paths in the critical areas.

______________________________________________________________

More importantly over the past years of Trying out Plinth and Sub Plinth Materials, I have not been able to discover a description of a Material as is described in this individuals words about a Densified Wood.

I have seen a variety of  data on offer for testing that is done on Densified Wood.

It was the Test Results that encouraged myself away from Granite and Slate and other Timber Composites.

It is the descriptions that are rarely found like the above, from a Specialist in such matters of controlling a transferred energy that is ensuring I made a valuable decision for my own situation.

It is no secret, I have encouraged others to experience Densified Wood, and the reports being returned along with the report returned form others across the globe is one more confirmation the material delivers something that is quite attractive and wanting to be maintained.  

@lewm

Aside from several after market plinths custom built to accommodate any of several different vintage turntables and optional arm wands offered by Reed, I don’t know of any company using P’holz in their commercial audio products. That’s perhaps unfortunate but it does suggest there’s no widespread trend toward P’holz.

Mentioning Clearaudio, they’ve been active with the use of Panzerholz in their upper end plinths for several years now including options on mid-tier ‘tables as well. In addition to the dense “P’holz” material, they also use additional internal ballast damping.

Your budget might stretch to a pre owned Clearaudio Innovation plus arm (arm choice dependent on budget). The standard PSU is just a wall wart which would leave the option of upgrading to the Professional 24v supply if you move to Europe.

I noticed you put new speakers in there. While there are no set rules.. there are some really useful generalities. This particular one I fell into very quickly many decades ago… speakers first.

If you think about them as the most sensitive and important instrument with which you judge your components… it has to be first. A new set of speakers will set the stage for evaluating anything you put into your system.

Let’s say speakers present sound differently and better ones are more resolving.. Then if you get your final turntable, or DAC or whatever… then upgrade your speakers… suddenly all sorts of nuances you were unaware of come to light… suddenly your system doesn’t sound right and you have to start swapping upstream components.

It is just a lot safer and less expensive to start with a speaker upgrade. Then survey your system for weaknesses… so, for instance your preamp could be the next weakness (and effects all components). If that is up to par… then I would think the Phonostage or Turntable could be your next concern. But it is appropriate that your phono stage is a similar investment level to your Turntable or you are not likely getting the best out of your Turntable.

Aside from several after market plinths custom built to accommodate any of several different vintage turntables and optional arm wands offered by Reed, I don’t know of any company using P’holz in their commercial audio products. That’s perhaps unfortunate but it does suggest there’s no widespread trend toward P’holz.

I also built a Pz wand for a Terminator, which had similar benefits, but not as much. I am using the heavy Pz as my main analogue.

@pindac I built (actually, most of the woodwork was done to my specifications) three Pz wands for my air bearing DIY tonearm. First was just a flat piece 4mm thick Pz with a Pz spine. It was the lightest and worked quite well.

Second was a hollow cone of Pz with the grain running the length of the wand. It was heavier and better.

Third was a hollow cone consisting of rings epoxied together. This was heaviest and best.

Sound was all that you suggest: more detail, especially micro-detail. But the over-riding impressions were sweetness and realism. The harshness seemed to have all been damped away. Cartridge was a Koetsu with diamond cantilever.

I will also be building a lighter version of the last attempt, and a sapphire wand for comparison.

@terry9 I did not know of others who are using the P'holz as a Arm Wand.

Did your experience leave you with the perception there was another level of detail  being extracted (crud removed ) with this as the material.

Each Time I experience it in use as a exchange material to a material I am quite familiar with. There is a certainty a extension of detail is present and a new comprehension is created of the structure of the recording during the presentation. The other trait that is on offer, and one that takes a little extra time to convince oneself is present, is the added micro details to how the instrument has been used, or the Vocal Note Formed. This is a lot of improvement for a little bit of being curious and not with too much cost involved to step so far forward in a improvement. I find it hard to see this as a subjective evaluation, there are so many reports all making claims that have a cross over of information. 

For those with a mind to produce a range of items for HiFi purposes, It is becoming a go to material now. Which is at this stage of being presented as material worthy of investigation, is now with about 12 years of forum promotion for the investigation into the usage behind it.   

As to Panzerholz, I use it for the motor board of my turntable and for the arm wand. It excels at both.

@mdalton, much appreciated thanks. I did not know about these options. I am now looking at various turnkey vintage choices in the market, also including Thorens TD 125mk II by Art of Sound from Germany...

 

@rauliruegas, thats actually not true but I can understand your perspective. A high level of performance is absolutely a given, but is not the "only" criterion for me in any purchase, be it a car, a road bike or furniture. Its just like food, where its not just about taste, its also about the presentation and much more. We are all fortunate to have ample choices of table with stunning visual appeal coupled with top notch performance, reliable service and long track record - many suggested in this thread. 

Lastly, I appreciate good design and art - its for me to enjoy every day, not to impress others. 

Dear @musicmatters1206  : " the centerpiece of my system and would go for a high mass design with room presence. "

That's fine with mebut seems to me that you are " working " more to " impress " your friends than looking for the bestquality performance levels that does not puts nothing or lost nothing to the sensible and be loved cartridge signal.

Btw, speakers has really the true room/system presence but that its me.

 

R.

@musicmatters1206 @mdalton 

Beautiful! Also if you’re in the market for an idler, check out Matt from Audio Grail. He he specializes in Garrard 301 and 401 and works a lot with Cusworth plinths which are hand shaped and jointed.

It you can stretch more get that Basis , last got offer for people watching for under $10k.

 

@musicmatters1206 

I posted a picture of them side-by-side on the asylum:

https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=vinyl&n=1217409&highlight=SLL&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Devents%26session%3D20221028102313&r=

@musicmatters1206 

re your #3 (Vintage TTs), yes, there are turnkey solutions, and at least in the case of idler drive TTs, they are extraordinarily low maintenance, which is why they were often used in radio stations, and why so many have lasted for 60+ years.  Here is one turnkey provider, whom I’ve used for my Garrard 401 (the blue one on his website), and, most recently, my Thorens td-124 (platter finished in grigio silvertone, with a figured mahogany plinth):

 

I have real estate for large diameter Cap's which will be seated as typical and not be squeezed in to a create a attachment. 

This will be the housing that may be produced from a Densified Wood. The Power Supply is looking likely to be within its own casing as there are demonstrations from other builds that suggest this is a valuable Topology. 

 

@pindac 

Yes the Nutube was quite a fun build, only a few hours! I’ve also done a few ACA monos. So, you’re doing an alternate version of B1 that’s balanced? Assuming the larger component you mean an upgraded power supply that’s internal? One thing to look out for with Nutube is microphonics, there are some crafty methods of damping that but I’m sure your friend knows. Feel free to send me pics when you’re done, very interested! 

@musicmatters1206 I am not going to discourage you from your quest to grow your digital experience. I am going through that evolvement myself. I have a Dealer not too many miles with a Range of Jay's Audio CDT's, I am itching to have a owned Perfect Wave Memory Player demonstrated along side the Jay's Models using my Bespoke Built DAC, at present the home system is as good as packed away, so I will be a tyre kicker at present, and prior to this did not want to get caught up in a purchase that was readily available and then only to be packed away. This might be the 2024 endeavour.

As for digital in General your earlier comments on Streaming are from my most recent demonstration of streaming relevant. Putting it in context, the Streaming was played through the exact same devices, a SP10 R Vinyl Source with supporting ancillaries for the Vinyl function, to a value of approx' £20K  has been used prior to the Streaming Demonstration. The TT is a extremely impressive performer, the Streaming Demonstration was of a the latest guise of the device and was not out of its depth being replayed in a room shared with Great Vinyl and the follow Up digital devices that were to be demonstrated.

With Vinyl as the consideration and the aesthetics of the TT being a big influence on a decision to be made.

The Model in the Link may catch your attention for aesthetic appeal.

If carefully planned and created, I feel is possible to be produced for approx' $1200, even with Polished Stacked Platters and if the Slate Top Plate on the Plinth is exchanged and a Veneered Densified Wood is used in its place. This will deliver a impressive performance as seen, the PTP Design does let an Idler Stand Out in delivered performance over other Idler Models.

Add to this at a later date or from the off set a luxury item such as a Speed Controller at approx' $1000. A LDA Quartz Lock, which I know well and have demonstrated it against other Speed Controllers, where it has shown to be a exceptional influence on a Idler Drive and also a Belt Drive.

With the correct planning and prudent purchase of a Donor TT. There is a lot of TT here for the monies and a lot of monies saved for other items to support the TT and the digital interest. 

    

@au_lait There is something satisfying about having a selection of Densified Woods on Standby. I have Board up to 75mm thick.

The Pass Design Korg Nu-Tube Pre-Amp is one I know very well.

Have witnessed it in demonstrations at a Pre-Amp Bake Off where the price range of Amp's were up to £4K retail. It held its own totally respectfully if a transparency and clarity is the desirable perception for being present.

After having a loaned and tweaked by a friends Basic Model in my system for approx' 1 year, and really coming to terms with how this design delivers.

I am having a Mono Block Balanced / Single Ended Pre' Built for me using this design, with a New Produced Circuit Board that allows for a Component used to a Larger Dimension without a squeeze. To make the most of the design, I have also gone to the lengths of having two perfectly matched Volume Controls Bespoke Built for me.

  I have been discussing with the EE, the use of Densified Wood for the Casings.      

I would appreciate suggestions for around $5-8K (table + arm), new or used. I will have separate budget for cartridge. One preferred option (but not must-have) is universal voltage, as I may move the unit to Europe later. My current vintage turntable (Project Perspective) is 22 years old, and while I don't know how to compare to something really amazing, I can say that my setup is lacking detail and bass. The tonearm is terrible to keep aligned. Based on visits to Axpona and Cap Audio Fest and other research, I am thinking of a few in my budget, but will really value your suggestions of other brands:

How do we know whether:

• The OP’s TT itself is OK or not?
• Whether the TT itself is affecting the bass?
• Or whether their arm is suitable for their cart?

The fact that they find the arm difficult is use and keep set up is reason enough to upgrade the the arm.

But I am wondering if the OP needs and arm and a cart more than a new TT itself.
 

@pindac Very happy to read all this info! I agree the Panzerholz is fantastic and I’m actually sitting in a nice amount of scraps I’m will find useful soon. Not so interested in tonearm wand but have seen some interesting bodies for DL103 etc

 

@rauliruegas The Palette is lovely, but needed to recap and fix a few DC issues so it’s in shop. I was trying to fix myself, recap no problem, but there were some issues with 2 potentiometers and typical situation with Levinson the parts are proprietary and the manufacturer wouldn’t sell to me. So it’s become more complicated. At the moment there is a small Pass B1 Nutube pre in its place, which is surprisingly wonderful! But oops this has gone off topic, sorry OP!!

As of December 27th here is a summary of this threads. Apologies for many omissions here, as there are so very many great suggestions. Overall I can break down recommendations across 4 categories and my take on each so far.

1. New TTs roughly in the 5-8K range (table + arm): Rega RP10, Technics SL-1200, several VPIs, Acoustic-Solid(several choices), Dr Feikert, SME Model 6, SOTA, Thorens TD-1601, Nottingham Aanlogue. Based on my needs / preferences, shortlist in this category are Acoustic-Solid, Thorens TD-1601, I am also keeping Origin Live Sovereign, which is not very well known in US, but seems like an incredible table and arm combo. I know Rega is hugely recommended, but i consider this purchase the centerpiece of my system and would go for a high mass design with room presence.
2. Used TTs in budget - some excellent recommendations from Basis (debut), SOTA, SME. In this category I am particularly drawn to Basis.  The SOTA looks kind of don’t work for me unfortunately.
3. Vintage TTs - Excellent recommendations around the obvious - Garrard, Thorens TD 124, Technics SP 10 variations, and I understand with the right amount of effort a well curated unit can easily surpass uber high end modern tables. While incredibly appealing, I am not sure I can go that route given the advanced level of knowledge and effort required. Practically speaking, I am willing to compromise the last mile quality and also willing to pay a bit more for a set it and forget it solution - and enjoy the limited time i have enjoying the music. If my understanding is wrong, anyone is welcome to please correct me. If there was a turnkey solution provider - who sources the base unit, does all the upgrades and sells as a final product, that can be a feasible alternative. I believe we are fortunate consumers with so many incredible choices today that one can easily achieve superb results with a lot less effort / customization.
4. Aspirational - these are very desirable tables a bit outside my budget (used), I am looking for more suggestions to see if stretching upwards to about 10-12K will yield material sonic benefits. VPI HW40 has strong recommendations and I really like DD tables for their simplicity and accuracy. Also in the category are several Acoustic-Solid Models, SME models, Basis Signature 2500 with vacuum. Also Clearaudio Innovation, absolutely stunning table. 

I am fortunate that I will have a very solid room environment with solid stone floors and massive stone walls, with near zero vibrations. And very good acoustics as well as reasonably good associated equipment. Hence I will perhaps be able to get away with a reasonably stable table and spend the money on a superlative cartridge (or two)

The range of choices is incredible and also overwhelming. Hence my broad decision approach will be along following core principles:

1. Simplicity and Convenience:  a table that doesn’t require constant attention, endless upgrade, tweaking and TLC. I would much rather spend money and time researching , buying and listening to records. 
2. Beauty: Our music systems are our joy and pride. They are a statement of our taste and style. I would choose a table that is visually appealing, and a joy to behold and operate. Hence high mass, and reasonable room presence (not bling like Triangle Art) is important
3. Cost - lastly - I would keep the budget in check. It is easy to get carried away, I am not convinced that spending more and more gets better results. I need to save money for my digital chain (Mola Mola Tambaqui and Jays Audio CDT3 Mk III in pipe) and new speakers. As much as I love vinyl, I really enjoy Roon’s convenience, as well as the pleasure of using CDs that I have collected for decades. Hell, I enjoy my Nakamichi LX-5 so very much. 

This is where I am as of now. Please challenge, counter and critique my thoughts, that’s what makes this community so great! I will be sure to keep everyone informed where I land in this journey, but lets keep the discussion going!!

Happy holidays all!

 

Whatever you decide, consider www.upscaleaudio.com .  I bought my Marantz TT-15S1 from them.  They set It up properly, mark the settings, send pictures and once you unbox It and assemble per their directions, you have a properly set up turnable and are ready to go. 

@glennewdick thank you for your recommendation of acoustic-solid. Everything I have read so far seems to indicate this is a quality manufacturer with real world prices. I actually wrote their NA rep in Ontario earlier today to get more info. Someone asked me earlier my visual preference, I think acoustic-solid....i am smitten. Just look at this thing:

Thanks to everyone so far for such an informative conversation. I think this will be useful to a lot of others in my situation. I will soon do a summary post on ffindings so far to make it easy for a new reader of the thread.

@ghdprentice very valid question. TBH I could stretch the budget to 10K or thereabout if there would be a material benefit. What would be your suggestions? As for your point on associated equipment - yes, I have a material upgrade coming up on speakers, in the ~30K range, but that will be whole another adventure (on my list are ATC SCM 100ASLT, Magico S5 Mk II, potentially Legacy Aries II). In short, I need to choose a table keeping in mind future upgrades....

 

Densified Wood has a very different measurement to nearly all materials typically used as a Plinth.

From knowledge gathered there are only a few substances that are close in measurement to damping factor measured in a Densified Wood and none of these will be referred to as Typical Material seen in use.

Densified Wood also has a quite different frequency to other materials and it is this combined with the Damping Factor that places it where it is with desirable measurements, and seen ideal to adopt the role of a Plinth, and is becoming used for other roles as well.

Panzerholz, was one of the materials promoted in the earliest days by those who were using science to prove the value of moving away from a Mass Plinth.

Possibly due to the Brand being readily available in Mainland Europe and for quite a period of time in the UK, it is a Densified Wood that has gathered a popular use with those expressing an interest in this side of the Science and available Technology to support it.

It has to be experienced in use, there is not easy ways to describe how it use, a whole new insight into how a recording can sound will manifest.

Combine this with PC Tripe C Wire as Upstream Signal Wire in a Analogue Chain and there is a tremendous amount of betterment on offer.

I really do hope a Cart' is produced with this wire as a Coil Wire in the not too distant, that would make not just one person happy.        

 

safebelayer looks like you are trying to sell your Basis table here on the Agon forums which is against policy. You should probably post your ad in the market place on Agon

Panzerholz is excellent for sure, but it is also very dense. Thus I see panzerholz as a kind of mass damping, in the same category as any other materials used to the same end. Albeit panzerholz may be the best or one of the best choices. PH for a tonearm wand is also an interesting idea but such a wand will inevitably have a high effective mass, due to the density. Reed offer PH as an option. I believe it’s their highest mass choice.

I couldn’t agree more on the recommendation for basis tables and vector 4 tonearm.  
 

The debut above Looks like a good deal. I’ve had two basis tables I’m currently using the 2200 signature and can’t imagine a better presentation.

If you're interested in Basis Audio, which it seems you are, I highly recommend the 2500 with the vector tonearm. That said, this option from basis is worth exploring

The debut exceeds the performance of the 2500. It comes with their best tonearm, which is as good a tonearm as one can buy and works best with Basis turntables.

 

Good luck in your search. Btw, the dynavector xv1s is excellent with the Basis.

Dear @au_lait : Well you are a fan of Technics even in your R2R unit and you like the long tonearms. I like and have first han experiences with your Pallete and as you I own ADS speakers in my case the L-2030 modified by me.Yes, the MK3 is hard to beat maybe the lewm that has a different plynth material could or sounds different.

Plynth material for vinatge top TT seems to me that with blend of material and very good internal damping could be the solution but yours looks beautiful.

In the new Technics SP10 they choosed not wood and the SAT one neither or the Air Force.

Anyway, I really like your MK3 " presentation ".

R.

 

@au_lait It is great to see a positive appraisal from an experienced TT user about the impact Panzerholz has made on a TT they have a familiarity with.

I am regularly being supplied accounts that are very similar to the account you are sharing.

I am a advocate of P'holz with the same passion I have for using PC Triple C Wire, as a Internal Wand Wire in a Tonearm and any other easier to achieve interfaces within a System. Either one of these materials are able to change a perception and create a very positive appraisal.

As for the P'holz, I have shared regularly the benefits I have encountered through the usage of it, and have been an encourager to others to use it.

When adopted as a material, the responses received back are as per your own, where I am receiving a very positive appraisal and there is a commitment to the material as the outcome.

One individual I purchased P'holz for, has become so impressed they are not only producing Plinths and further using it as a Sub Plinth.

They have now adopted my requests that have been presented on a regular occasion and produced a TT Chassis from P'holz.

Along with this venture, they are Pioneers using their CNC Skills to produce a host of parts they believed would benefit from being exchanged to P'holz.

I have been demonstrated some of this fledgling work and can assure that there is a difference for the better, cleaner better shaping of Vocals and Notes is a definite   perception. There is no returning to Metal or Plastic Parts that is a asurity, just as a adopter of this material to being used as a Plinth is very rarely discovered to have not wanted to maintain the material. I only know of one person who has used it not as 'P'holz Only',  but used it as a composite. They preferred this sonic for a period of time. When comparing the composite to a 'P'holz Only' at a later date, they chose the P'holz only as their preferred material for the detail retrieval and turned the composite into a 'P'holz Only' as well. 

I am in communication with others around the Globe, and some have now adopted the ideas to use this in place of a Mass Support Structure as a Plinth for a TT.

What was not expected was when I witnessed Idler Drive Owners. who were die hard in their favouritism for a Mass Plinth. when having experienced a Densified Wood, changed their philosophies and are not with a Plinth in a P'holz or Permali.  

Again the reports from those adopting to P'holz with a DD TT are quite something and the Comparison Measurements being shown are quite informative, especially the 'db' comparisons being substantially improved when compared to a Mass Plinth Design.  

I was in contact with an individual in Mainland Europe who was an advocate of Wood Tonearm Wands. They adopted P'holz and were extremely impressed by the material. They have even sought out other Densified Wood, where there are increased Laminations than the 25 per 25mm. Pico Wood comes to mind. As a result of this very high appraisal, I have offered Densified Wood 'off cuts' to other users of wood wands that I know off.

With the access to a CNC and Skilled user, I am setting aside a P'holz Board for another investigative venture.

I have pretty much decided I don't want to do too much more with the Sony TTS 8000, there are a few things that make it a hard TT, to promote to others as a TT to attempt to do additional work with.

I am now to use a one of my owned Denon DP-80's as a Donor Model.

This is hopefully going to end up with having the original Chassis Produced from P'holz as a replacement.

In my assessment, due to the Magnetic Strip on the Platter much of the 'under the hood' parts will need to be maintained on the New Chassis. This could be changed as I am yet to have my friend EE who specialises in DD TT's assess the potential for a change to the design and offer further improvements.

When the EE gets into the Nitty Gritty, the Speed Control will certainly be assessed to see where an improvement can be added.

The EE is also a adept engineer and machinist, with this TT, the Bearing assembly will be checked to see if it can contain a Low Viscosity Oil, and a Bearing Housing will be produced that will contain such an oil without a concern for a leach out. This was done for the TTS 8000 to a very successful outcome.

The Bearing will also be reconstructed using New Parts that will be a design with a  Low Coefficient of Friction.

The Platter on this Model lends itself to works being undertaken that have had a great effect on the performance of a DD TT.

The DP -80 Platter, is a Two Piece Assembly where a Top Plate is removable.  I have a Phosphor Bronze Part as a direct replacement for the Original Top Plate.

The intention is also to produce a Phosphor Bronze / 20mm Delrin Top Plate and a Delrin Only Top Plate possibly close to a 40mm Thickness, it might get done in two 20mm's pieces to assess the effects of the mass of the material used at this location. 

I know for sure there are going to be a very noticeable differences to the performance of the Original DP-80, but I have a original one reserved for the A/B Comparisons.

It will also be off interest to see how the original might change in its performance with the options for an increased amount of designs to be used as an exchange part as the Top Plate on the Platter. 

As seen with other TT's having adopted the used of P'holz.

The use of P'holz with the DP-80, will in my view be the Key to the door, to allow all other changes added to be optimised for their impact on the performance.   

5:43 into the video- a polished turntable is already a little much, but "bedazzled" AND polished? OUCH!

 

 

I am surprised no one here mentions two tonearm TTs.

glennewdick

Acoustic Solids Video of their production is impressive.

I already posted this two arm version with minimalist look

 

many acoustic models are listed on hifishark

 

looking at their designs, it is possible a second arm could be added to some models, now or the future.

+1 @lewm regarding SP10 MK3.

Mine was in 99% new condition, chip upgraded and serviced by JP, resides in a panzerholz plinth, and I can’t say I’ve hear it bettered. 

OP,

I think you have a great question. Given the high quality of your other equipment, I think you are correct in really giving it some thought. 
 

Are you at all drawn to traditional high end? Sota and Linn can offer contemporary performance with tradition. Alternatively, you can go more contemporary. Then there is sprung vs massive tables  that tend to have a characteristic sound. Also, given the quality of your other components… I am not sure your budget is a bit small. If you really want a spectacular table, I would recommend something in the $10K range. Sorry, I’ll have to revisit your speakers. 
 

Anyway, your thoughts on your inclinations? 

A brand not that popular here yet in NA is Acoustic Solid out of Germany. they have been around for over a decade now and build tables that are very well made. I went from a VPI prime 21 to one of Acoustic solids tables, actually less money then the VPI and I have to say its better made and sounds as good if not better. may want to do a google search and have a look. 

I was disappointed with the prime 21 it had too many issues from the factory (arm wand not straight, lift not working and motor issues)  the workmanship was not up to the standard I'd expect for the money spent. Much happier with the Accost Solid table so much better made for the money IMO.