I tried two, Zu Omen and the Klipsch Forte which also included sampling the Heresy and Cornwall. I hated the Zu, and I don't think I'd like any single driver speakers for that matter. It might be too much to ask a single driver to accurately recreate both high and low frequencies. They got really raucous with rock or any tracks with multiple instruments and a broad frequency response. I tried a few of the Klipsch Heritage speakers and found that I love the way they sound. The Forte was the sweet spot for me and sounded balanced between lows mids and highs. It was a pretty short search actually, but this forum was really helpful narrowing down my list. I'd also look into Caladan if Spatial is on your list, Volti is also interesting and should be similar to Klipsch.
Efficient speakers -- What was your journey from A to B to ?
This thread is for people who have tried a successive number of efficient speakers and are willing to relate what they learned on the way.
Here's where I am: Recent experiences with speakers and amps has lead me toward lower watt (not ultra low) amps and more sensitive speakers.
I currently am looking for a second pair of speakers to alternate with my Ascends which would play more nicely with my Quicksilver Mono 60s and my Pass XA 25. (If I found the right speakers, I could be willing to look into SET amps, etc. but that is not my quest, now.)
I am open to design -- horns, open baffle, single driver, etc. My budget is flexible but I won't spend tens of thousands. So, some options are likely not possible.
Here are the speakers I am keeping an eye out for, used, but please add to my list!
Audio Note
Coherent Audio
Coincident — planar magnetic tweeters
Daedalus
Fyne
Klipsch
legacy
Living Voice
Omega
Pure Audio Project
spatial
Tannoy
Volti
Again, I'm especially interested in hearing from folks who have tried more than one of these speakers and can explain what lead them from one brand or model to the next -- and why.
Thanks!
Charney Audio and Songer Audio make very good high efficiency speakers. Of the brands already listed above, I also like the Spatial, Pure Audio Project, Volti, and Fyne speakers. There are even large psnel speakers with powered woofers that qualify and sound quite good (e.g. Arion Acoustic speakers. |
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Consider speaker design category (e.g. in your mention - K-horns) not just brand. Format of the driver arrangements can be a good predictor of efficiency, and past that it will matter if you like the way a given speaker model sounds. I don’t think any of the speakers in your list are line arrays, which can also be very efficient. Can be affordable to DIY (though “costly” in terms of learning curves/time); very expensive to buy ready-made. |
I’m running two amps (Pass Aleph 0s and Audio Note 300B). I have tried 2 models, Zu Soul Supremes which I found fatiguing (shrill, bright, glassy?) after a brief honeymoon period and Audio Note AN-J/LX which I am currently running and which I love. The right mix of detail, warmth, fullness, richness, realism for me and they have scaled surprisingly well with every upgrade I have made to my sources. I purchased most of my system used, so investment amounts are somewhat misleading, but at this point the speakers are probably only 10% of my total system cost (analog and digital sources). And yet they don’t feel like a bottleneck but rather bring out every upgrade to the sources. |
@benanders wrote:
+1 @hilde45 -- My "journey" in the high efficiency element of speakers has had the focus of maintaining good power response ("energy coherency"/dispersion pattern matching) at the crossover region from horn- or waveguide hybrid solutions, as well as the advantages offered from all-horn speakers. Main goal through it all, apart from other traits of high efficiency: better coherency via a more range uniform speaker-room interaction, and ultimately also less interference from the acoustic environment. The important thing with all-horns and the very high efficiency they offer is trying to achieve proper size of the horns to actually have them act like horns in the entire frequency region they cover. This is not trivial for a variety of reasons, and when achieved will give the better outset to work from with this design choice. If size is an issue, and it usually is, a horn- or waveguide hybrid solution (i.e.: in conjunction with a direct radiating element) can be the preferred route, but here as well it is important to have proper dispersion pattern match at the crossover(s) for aided coherency, and depending on the overall physical stature of the speakers (and goals wrt. limiting and controlling overall dispersive nature) this can lead to quite large speakers. Initially my going towards the high efficiency segment of speakers came from wanting to avoid dome tweeters to achieve better power response and overall coherency. Waveguide-fitted Amphion speakers were tried out, then S.P. Technology speakers (also waveguide), hORNS (w/OSWG waveguide), and ultimately very high efficiency all-horn speakers from Simon Mears to what I have now: a combination of large format mids/tweeter horns with large direct radiating woofer/mids and tapped horn-loaded subs. My ultimate goal would be ending up with a properly sized all-horn solution eventually. As for speaker recommendation, this is more difficult to assess in relation to your taste and speaker history, not that your purchase history here should necessarily be any indication for what’s to come onwards. However I’m thinking used JBL K2 S9800(SE), which are very good speakers, or used JBL M2’s actively configured. For all-horns you could try out used Klipsch K-horns, which can be retrofitted with better mids and tweeter horn + drivers and crossover from Greg Roberts of Volti Audio. This would also make the use of lower powered amps more obvious with the K-horns’ very high eff. The JBL’s ideally should be fed with more power, I find, but here you could try out bi-amping and different amp combinations. The latest iteration Klipsch Cornwall speakers are popular. Oh, well - the list is long.. |
I have had the gamut of speakers including magnepan, von schweikert, Wilson, and a host of others. Around 2013 a friend of mine brought over an early pair of Klipsch Heresy speakers. Like a crack dealer on the corner, he got me hooked. I immediately sought out a pair of Cornwall II speakers which were about a two hour drive away. This put me on a path to horns. I strayed away a couple of times, but came back. Here is the list of what I would call high efficiency that I have owned. Klipsch Cornwall II Crites Cornscala C GR Research Super V (around 95 db) Klipsch Forte III Klipschorn Spatial Audio X3 (96 db) Klipsch Cornwall IV Klipsch Lascala II I have landed with the LS II and an Aric Audio Super 300B SET. Once you get your system dialed in and speakers positioned in the room correctly, all those horn nasties that people go on and on about just disappear. I can’t see myself going back to speakers that require an arc welder to drive. Just something about the dynamics of high sensitivity speakers and the way they let the music flow into the room.
Be advised that even though the X3 from Spatial Audio is 96 db, I found that I could NOT drive it with the amp I had at the time, a Decware Torii II. Once I got into the 50-100 watt range, the speakers sounded pretty good. But the Decware (at 20 wpc) could not do it.
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@perkadin @larryi @ditusa Thanks for the JBL link. @shkong78 I'd like to go to Axpona. Good idea. @benanders Good point about design as a primary criterion. I've heard one GR research line array powered by a 245 amp and it was pretty magical (had open baffle bass drivers, too). @phildebrandt A local dealer just started carrying Audio Note. I hope to hear them. Zu is really not a likely choice. I am hoping, as you say, to bring out the quality I've invested in amps and sources.
Very well put. That captures what I expect I'm seeking, too. I am hoping NOT to wind up with huge speakers. Your description of your journey is very helpful and gives me a lot to think about and research. Part of my current challenge is timing these trials -- I'm moving my audio from one room into another and the dimensions of the room will factor in. Both rooms are medium-large, I'd say. Thanks for your comments. Quite the journey! This stood out for me: "I can’t see myself going back to speakers that require an arc welder to drive. Just something about the dynamics of high sensitivity speakers and the way they let the music flow into the room." |
Just my two bits. I’ve owned many traditional speakers, drivers in box, ported and sealed. Rogers, Mission, TDL, NHT, Tyler.. I enjoyed all of them. They have been mostly polite, natural and neutral sounding. Wanting some more impact and dynamics I started looking into horn loaded designs. My first stop was a new pair of Klipsch Heresy IV’s. They were great, what I’d been looking for. Dynamic and engaging, not polite.. I really felt pulled in. Of course I did get the upgrade bug so I listened to the Forte and Cornwall, very nice speakers, but I didn’t feel I was getting a significant improvement over my Heresy’s. I kept them.. Then I was recommended to look into Volti by an AG member and friend. When I heard the Volti Razz it was like a veil was lifted. I was hearing the most incredible midrange and upper bass I had ever heard from a home speaker. Detailed and dynamic, beautiful open sound stage I just had to have them. To me the Heresy’s sounded thin, missing that fully formed midrange, same when I took a listen at a dealer with the Forte. When I picked up my ordered Razz from Greg Roberts, he really went out of his way to explain his careful process of choosing drivers and designing his cabinets. Using a simple demo of a 2" throated horn he showed me the light. Easy to drive with just about anything. I have a Margules ACRH3 and Cary SLI80 HS i swap in and out along with my rusty trusty Mac240. The Razz showcases each amp’s character as well as it’s own. Only way I would upgrade these would be for a new pair of Volti Rival’s or if I won the lotto, the Vittora. BTW I am going to own another pair of the Heresy's, they really were a fun pair of speakers, there's just something about them that's hard to put into words. FYI Greg will be at the Fla Audio Expo, if you go, you can compare the Volti sound with several others.. just saying |
Of the speakers you mention I have owned two: Spatial Audio X5 97db. This speaker made magic with a Pass XA-25. Imaging was phenomenal, particularly the layered depth it produced. The negative was it produced a very narrow sweet-spot in my room, I think because of the unusual tweeter it uses. Fyne F1-8 91db. Current speakers. These have concentric drivers and as a result imaging is excellent just about anywhere in the room. Imaging is not quite a magical as the X5, but still excellent with AGD monoblocks. This is a very well balanced speaker. It also has a presence control that is very effective in making adjustments for personal taste in the 2-5k range. I use it with a subwoofer. I also recommend you add the Caladan from Clayton Shaw Acoustic Lab to your list. 93db, open baffle design with a silk dome tweeter. I heard them at Capital AudioFest and ordered a pair - waiting for delivery. Very reasonably priced, extremely good sound. |
I've owned a few of these over the years, - Audio Note ANE: great midrange decent bass if set up right but IMO lacking in bass definition if the room is not perfect for them. not as efficient as claimed, you need min 20-30wpc to get the to sing.
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My brother has Klipsch Chorus which are in between Fortes and Cornwalls. I took my Quicksilver mid monos to his place and we both thought it was a great match. I believe the Chorus are 102db sensitive. This was in comparison to his Parasound amp,but I don't know which model. VPI Classic turntable, Demon CD player, Straightwire cabling.I have Zu Omen Defs which I know you aren't interested in but I am hooked on high efficiency speakers. |
Don’t see Devore O series on the list but hoping to hear some myself - rarely come up used. Just a comment on Audio Note - they want to be in the corner - not sure that would work in your current space but you mention you are moving to another room. im on my first stop on the high efficiency journey - agree with the comment about music sounding effortless. I’m using Omega CAM in a smallish room with a single sub. Don’t miss the tweeter at all - both because I sit in a fixed sweet spot and also as I’m 68 and my hearing drops off after 12k… please report back on where you end up |
DIY is a really great route for this, as you can get really high quality drivers vs manufacturer made speaker systems. Most high efficiency solutions will use a full range driver and a bi-amp solution for the bass drivers. DSPing the bass drivers with a high quality DSP is almost always better than relying on an internal or external analog crossover because it also addresses issues in your room. I’ve tried a number of high efficiency speakers, and my personal favorites were custom Oris 200 horns with AER BD3 drivers. AER drivers are not cheap, but they are outright fantastic. Incredibly sensitive, typically over 100dB, and no sizzle or fatigue like Lowthers. Another option, also quite pricey, are Voxativ field coil drivers. I have a friend who uses those with custom bass cabs, and they are unparalleled in terms of presence and as fatigue free as AER. I know you mentioned that you won’t spend tens of thousands, and that likely puts the Voxativ out of your budget, but you may come across a nice pair of vintage AER for a great price. |
@doyle3433 @markmuse My listening with the Spatial had the same downside and there was a lack of focus. Maybe it was just that particular setup. I am very curious about the Fyne, for sure. The Caladan is another interesting one, not least because of the silk dome. A gentle touch! Thanks for your comments. @glennewdick Helpful remarks. Not sure why Fyne qualifies as a "knock off" just because there was some personnel which went from Tannoy to Fyne. The Living Voice really pique my interest. Thanks! @jtcf I've heard that QS and Klipsch are a good match -- thanks for affirming that. @burtlake Devore was on my list for a while, but after hearing the 0/96 I don't think they're quite my taste. Very expensive, too. But if I could get them in my house for a trial (never gonna happen) I could be sure. I'll let you know what happens and thanks for your comment. @blisshifi DIY sounds like an good avenue. Voxativ sounds interesting and I might be able to hear some, locally. Thanks for you input. |
I don’t have much to add but have been using horn speakers (JBL 4367) for about a year now. One thing I will say is there is almost always a trade off with bass extension. You are either going to have huge speakers or no bass depth if you want high efficiency. I personally think the solution is to add subs unless you have a very large budget. For me the advantages (dynamics) out weigh the negatives. I will be using horns longterm at this point. It has been a revelation for me, everything just sounds less produced. |
@hilde45 Not to trash on Devore, but I agree. I’ve had a few of John’s speakers on my floor, and they are too overpriced for their performance IMHO. The outside cabinets are attractive, but the innards leave much to be desired. They are not bad sounding, but there are many better alternatives in the market, many which are already mentioned on this thread. |
@james633 I have 3 subs and miniDSP to dial them in, so your suggestion is very apropos. Thanks. @blisshifi They are very "cool" speakers and I've liked them when I heard them, but for my tastes and wallet, I've moved away from an early fixation on them. There's a lot out there and everyone has to decide what has value, but for their price -- $15,900 MSRP -- one would have to be comfortable leaving a lot of other options in the dust. That does not add up for me. |
As a DIY’er and if I did not already build my own, and I was on a path for my next fleawatt amp efficiency speakers out there in DIY form, I’d be tempted to try one of Troel’s higher efficiency DIY offerings. Kinda cool, seems like a value to review. Lots of happy owners out there. Have not heard them though... nice parts. http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/HESintro.htm
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@decooney +1000 on that question! |
Anyone try Blumenhofer? https://www.blumenhofer-acoustics.com/Products/SerieGenuin/GenuinFS1-3/GenuinFS1-3.php |
@trivema The Klipsch I’ve heard have sounded a bit shouty and harsh. I bet this was due to (a) poor synergy between speaker and amp(s) and likely (b) lack of good room acoustics. I am hoping my next speaker adventure does not immediately launch me looking for an amp that will make a speaker sound good. Curious how people would react to the assertion, "Klipsch speakers need a more careful pairing than other similar speakers." That would be helpful, possibly, as a data point. |
@decooney and @hilde45 Just a thought, on Volti’s web page, Greg has an nice and thoughtful writeup on comparing and contrasting the Forte and Razz. Don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t replace an actual sit down and listen to each of them, however he has strong points to pay attention to during auditions. |
I use a pair of Charney Maestros (needed speakers designed for corner placement) with a 300b amp and a First Watt M2. I am very happy with them, and they would be fine with less than the 8 watts from the 300b. Because of my placement limitations, and because I am close enough to NJ to have demoed the Charneys, I didn't comparison shop them with other speakers. If you are interested in the category, also worth looking at AER and Voxativ speakers (they make the drivers that Charney uses). |
I do think one needs to pay more attention to supporting gear when going with klipsch. That said, the current models of Heritage speakers are more forgiving and linear than older versions. If what you heard was something out of the 70s or 80s (even 90s), then what is available now is a different animal. My LS II are vintage 2019 and you would be hard pressed to hear anything "shouty" about them with any type of recording. But better source components and amplification will get the most out of klipsch speakers, no doubt. And proper positioning and room treatments. These are, of course, things that make any speaker shine. But may be more important with horns. |
@ozzy62 Thanks. You're surely right those details matter more with horns. I wonder as @doyle3433 points out whether the Volti is more forgiving/flexible than the Klipsch (modern versions -- good point you made about that, too). |
hilde45, I have heard several Tannoy and Fyne speakers, and I think they would be well worth your time seeking out an audition......all 91 93 db. To me the Fyne F1.8 was magical, but it's a bookshelf and not sure that would fit your bill. Depending on budget, I'd think the Fyne F502-SP, Fyne Classic VIII/X/XII, or Tannoy Turnberry/Arden would be worth a listen. I also have purchased a pair of Clayton Shaw's Caladan speakers on reputation alone, but I can't give you any insight as I believe they are in the January/February production run. |
Thanks to posters for the additional ideas! @vthokie83 There are some of these, nearby me: Heard them? |
Hilde45, Sorry I've only hear the classic series (Arden, Eaton, Cheviot) and the GR series (GRF, Kensington, Turnberry, Stirling); but that was at Upscale Audio in the L.A. area (east of L.A.).....I just happened to be there for business, and set a time to audition. They carry the complete Tannoy and Fyne lines I believe. I did prefer the GR line, but I am not totally sure that their appearance did not influence me......they are stunningly beautiful speakers (as are Fyne Audio) |
I get amazing results from Heresy IIIs (tried the IVs but the mids were inferior to the IIIs)) and switching between a tubed Dennis Had "Firebottle HO SEP (high output...ha...) and a Pass XA-25. Two REL subs. Was thinking about the Volti Razz but the "no returns under any circumstances" policy is too anti consumer for me, and actually owned a pair of the well regarded ZU "dirty weekend" and thought they were awful. As if nobody at ZU actually listened to them, or they needed way more break-in than I have patience for. Efficient speakers mean the drivers don't work very hard so they're cleaner. Might try a pair of La Scalas sometime. |
If you haven't checked out the Decware website- it might be worth a look. Over the years, I've owned Magnepan 1.6 heavily modified, then 3.7's. Then I switched to Tekton Moab's. The Moab's lasted a year in my system. I now have a pair of Lii Audio PT-10 drivers mounted in their Origin cabinets. Steve Deckert has designed a folded horn cabinet for these drivers, and calls them the Headwreckers. I have not heard them, but they are deigned to extend the low frequencies of this driver. Supposedly there is no need for a subwoofer with these cabinets. I augment bass with a pair of REL G2's and the combination is by far the best audio I have had in my house. Steve does auditions of his gear by appointment. |
@wolf_garcia Thanks for weighing in. I always learn from your experience! @drewportland I'll take a look. Great idea! |
In the mid 70s my first REAL speakers were Beckers, then in 78, Heresy’s came into my life. I ve’ had all the Heritage series except K-Horns. Still have Cornwall lls, Chorus lls & LaScall lls with Altec 311/60s on top. All my speakers have ALK upgraded networks. I’d love to hear a set of Tannoy GR/GRF with my system, maybe in another life. With 3 systems in my house, the Chorus lls are fed by my Pioneer SX1280. Corwalls ll are fed by my Fisher 800c & the LaScalla’s are fed by my Prima Luna HP w/KR-kt88s. I don’t think I can do better that with what I have! |
In 1970 or so I bought a pair of Altec A7s from the Strawberry Alarm Clock's drummer. That was my introduction to efficiency and they sounded amazing and served my bands well until I finally sold them in '86. I'd put the horns in their own frames and sealed and tuned the bass bins by that time, using them bi-amped. To really make them handle uncompressed bass (like a kick drum) I put JBL bass guitar speakers in them and that worked amazingly well. |
@ozzy62 you bring up a good point my friend. Greg is also a go to guy when it comes to modifying Klipsch speakers. It would be a cool way to go if that was the way to a great pair of speakers. Find a nice vintage pair of K-horns or Lascala (sp) and have Greg work his magic. I understand with Greg’s mods the bigger Klipsch really shine.
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Efficiency vs. Sensitivity: See article below page one sec C: https://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/notes/tech1-3a.htm The video below explains impedance and the differences between efficiency and sensitivity. Mike |
@ditusa I've read about this distinction before, but obviously it didn't take! You can tell this is out of my area! I appreciate the reminders and the links. Thank you! |
In layman terms, a) Efficiency b) Bass c) Cabinet size (refrigerator size vs WAF size) Pick 2 (ab, bc or ac) But, there's a whole lot more advanced topics tied to driver design, quality, compromises, etc.... Yummy quality power is very affordable these days, i.e., it isn't the 70s. Pursuit of efficiency and exclusion of "supposedly inefficient" ear candy speakers is a silly thing to do in 2024 and an unnecessary restriction/compromise imposed on the engineering workspace. One would be surprised how little power the "supposedly inefficient" ear candy speakers actually use at deafness inducing spl levels.
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Very hard to make efficiancy speaker, no refrigerator size, First- lowbass driver must be active to mach sinsitvity other driver, Horn tweeter is must, dont look whizzer cone -is the chip mechanical tweeter attached to main cone and have the poor performance . Mid bass is very important , becouce most of Full range Drivers got luck it, If you close to NY NJ or been on CAF or NY Audio show probably you know brand Bacheaudio , also tal a look
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I owned Avantgarde Uno’s in 2002 & then upgrade to the Duo’s in 2004 ( or so). Their macro & micro dynamics were so much better than anything I had ever heard in anything close to their price ranges. They sounded excellent at any volume level & could easily fill a big room w/ rich full bodied, life like music. I then moved to another house & could never really get their powered subs to integrate just right. They always seemed a slight bit behind the big midrange horn. I think Avantgardes are now offered w/ their amplification & digital processing which is probably worth giving a listen to. I sold them & got into a very surround sound system w/ all Dynaudio Contour speakers & sub w/ Anthem electronics as I was watching a lot movies as well as listening to music but eventually I decided to return to high sensitivity speakers. I listed to all of the Klipsch models but settled on Volti Audio Rivals. They are a good balance of big, dynamic, “live sounding”, highly sensitive speakers in a “ reasonable “ sized, not crazy looking, simply but very nicely finished cabinet. I have listened to the smaller Volti Razz which are also quite good & give you much of the Rivals sound in a substantially smaller & less expensive option. Both of these are worth either a trip to TN to visit Greg Roberts or the next show that Volti exhibits. I also know he is working on a new cartoon of his top of the line Vittoria speakers that will probably be amazing if they’re in your price range. |
@jonwolfpell Thanks for your experiences. It's helpful to hear how things change.
I'm not ignorant of how affordable power is these days, and that it's good power, too. I have driven "supposedly inefficient" speakers to deafness inducing spl levels -- so I know that's possible, too. In other words, these are not new facts to me. What I am getting at -- which others here with efficient speakers also get -- is that there is a sonic experience with the combination of lower power plus higher efficiency which is different than higher/sufficient power + inefficient speakers. It's a nimbleness, a spry litheness -- in dynamics, pacing, but also in the way the tonalities are rendered. Perhaps you've not been able to notice it, yet. Once you do, you'll seek it as I am. |
On that note - Sometimes inefficient speakers need the volume turned up a little more to hear their full potential. Whereas more efficient speakers, and/or amplifiers well matched to the speaker, can be more effortless sounding, and at lower volume level fwtw. For my home and setup, I spend 95% of the time listening at lower volume levels, so this kind of amp, speaker, impedance, and efficiency matching is a key objective. |
@hilde45 , The last "relatively sensitive" speaker i had was the JBL9800 from their synthesis line... almost 20 years ago now maybe. It was possibly a letdown in comparison to my ’not so sensitive" current speakers (Schweikert 55, TAD E1TX), in every possible way i can think of. The JBL was a ear ripper with many a less than perfect recording. Since i’m a "music first" audiophile, i have loads of imperfect recordings from great artists and no inclination of dealing with such restrictions. P.S. There are also so many killer resolving dacs these days (which didn’t exist back then), that can help deliver some of these traits/nuances you’re pursuing in sensitive speakers (without their cons). |