Ditching Class A Amps due to Heat - Sort of a Poll

I own and use several Class A amps - collectively around 400 pounds of them. If they didn't sound better than most other amps they'd be gone in a second. But they do, so they stay.

I may have already commented about the Voyager GaN 350 amp. I just one FS on USAudioMart at a terrific price. He's in IN

+1 - Keeping class A amplifiers.

Am currently running a Nakamichi PA-5.

Have been wanting two BEL 1001’s since I started four-plus years ago.

(Yes, I know there’s a controversy about whether they are true Class A.)

I’ve never thought of heat as a problem, just something to be managed, though I mistrust electronics you can fry an egg on.

No. Never ditch Class A amps due to heat. It’s winter! Enjoy the heat. 

Clio and Ralph:

Thanks for the feedback.

The D amps are pretty old (maybe 20 years).

I may try adding an 8 ohm wire-wound to the Sharp as It's set up now @ the computer.

I haven't seen the Sonic Impact's for years - not certain if I kept them.

I'm down to one Sharp system now (2 died and I gave 2 away).

Class D is good for the spare bed/computer room as it has a large wall to wall window and no air conditioning.

 

DeKay

 

Thanks for the feedback.

The D amps are pretty old (maybe 20 years).

@dekay Uh, Yikes! A lot has happened in the class D world since 20 years ago!! I couldn't take them seriously back then.

@tweak1 there are 4 of them on USAM right now. All priced down and dirty. 

Dynamiclinearity

 

you forgot about the Krell KRS200. Pure Fixed Class A down to a 1/2 ohms. One of the most powerful Pure Fixed Class A Amps on the planet. 
 

Clearthinker

i agree with you 100%
 

My response as well:

Have you done away with your Class A Amp due to Heat concerns?    NO

Will you be moving away from Class A Amp due to Heat concerns?  NO

Will you never buy a Class A Amp due to Heat concerns?  NO
 

Also Boulder makes an incredible Bias Class A amplifiers for quite some time and they don’t heat up your room. I know they are expensive and not everyone can afford it but if you constantly complaining or competing with Class A vs Class D, this should quite your noise/ maybe not. 

I like the sound of Class A and also Magnepan speakers. So a dilemma. My solution is low-power Pass diy amps with high-sensitivity speakers for casual listening around the house, and a Class D amp with tube front end driving the Maggies in my listening room. I don’t think I’ll ever own a Class A amp over about 25 watts. The electricity consumption does bother me. It’s wasteful. But then, I’m also a gardener with a house on more than an acre, and I use a lot of water. We all have our priorities.

Coda Continuum #16 amp runs slightly warm but nowhere near hot. I buy my amps based on my ears. I still think the best Class D GAN Fet amp that I have listened to is probably a touch better on the top end but clearly not as hefty on the bottom end. The main benefit of class D imo is their pint size. The Coda is now my reference.

No, no, and no.

@jaymark you had a LSA Voyager 350 at one point, no? 

@decathlon1991 

Thanks.  I knew my uprated KRS200s are big.  But I had no idea they are planetary paragons.  Thanks for this.

What we need now is a designer that can take pure Class A down to a quarter ohm.  Guess he'll be put in jail if he can do it.

Stiff and powerful rules OK.  Just going downstairs for another wonderful dose of reality.

I have a Pass 250.8 in a 13x 23 room running Sabrina with a JLf113 V.2. It always heats the room to 70 - 72 in the winter months and to 74 in the summer- too hot despite sounding great. I run a pair of Bel Canto REF600m in the warmer months and they will probably end up being my main amps as I downsize. Inevitably the 100 pound Pass will become too heavy at some point. 

Ralph:

The Sharp sounds more than decent with 4/8 ohm speakers (the super cheap Sonic Impacts were always odd sounding and I even tried powering them with batteries).

This is coming from someone who has been using DH/SET 300B/2A3 amps (Audion/Bottlehead) for the past 20 years.

The Sharp's were a goof (purchased 5 of them on closeout for $75/each mainly for gifts, but ended up liking it).

I didn't even realize that the Sharp was Class D until recently upon looking it up.

 

http://www.laaudiofile.com/sdex111.html

DeKay

Digital GaN amps are another step up in sonic purity from class A, class A/B and normal Class D (including GaNs). NO DAC, NO PREAMP, NO ANALOG INTERCONNECTS, NO FEEDBACK, NO HEAT.......just super sound. The only one available right now that makes sense is the Peachtree GaN 1 using the Elegant Audio Solutions 200 watt a channel board. I have no doubt you will soon see other manufacturers using this board and the 400 watt stereo and mono boards (and inside speakers too). This is the revolution that many have been waiting for.....less money, less heat, less components and better sound. Please see the GaN 1 thread here.....much much more info coming soon. Ditch those super big amps....you just don’t need them.....and ditch the DAC, and the preamp and cables....and grin!

And you can bi and tri amp in the digital domain and get rid of your transparency robbing xovers in your speakers.....now super easy to make a diy speaker that will simply blow you mind. I am making a page online that will describe the revolution in more detail. I will post a link to it. The revolution is NOW!

Another Luxman 590AXII owner.  It's actually high bias Class A to 30 watts, then A/B to 100.  The 30 watts is enough for most everything.  That said, it's really heavy, at 65 lbs. Never gets hot to my knowledge.  It sounds like Class D is really advancing with makers like Atmasphere innovating.  When the consensus is the sound and value exceeds Class A and the products are light weight, run cool, are priced right and are better for the planet to boot, count me in.

Can’t go wrong with Hypex or Purifi 

@jerryg123 

WOW. Hard to imagine that people thinking they could find anything at twice the MSRP to be better, although, W4S has been beta testing a new kind of GaN amp that eliminates the dac. I haven't found anything about it, but...

WFS probably has the EAS GaN digital amp boards and is testing them. Digital amps are the future....all DACs, preamps, and normal amps are now officially history.....he he. If you play CDs only, the best sound will be to burn the CD (with treatments done to it) onto a hard drive and play it from a streamer or computer into the digital amp. There will be integrated fully digital amps (more advanced than Technics and Lyndorf) that will have a coax input and volume control built in so you can play a CD transport directly into them.....there will be tons of these kinds of products out. It’s only just begun.....add to this that you can bi and tri and quad amp with these things and get rid of all the crossover parts.....and you can even make your own speakers as all you need is woofer/box alignment or use open baffle and equalize (digitally). We are in for a wild fun ride.......AND when you add getting off the grid using a big Giandel Inverter and using the Puritan line filter and ground filter system with dedicated ground rod just for your stereo!?!?!?!?! OH YEAH......you will never need to go to an audio show again......Nirvana will be at home.....and affordable. You can do all of this RIGHT NOW! The Peachtree GaN 1 amps are for sale......buy two for biamping....buy three for triamping.....OMG!!!!!!!

Am I repeating myself?  The GOOD NEWS is worth repeating.

If someone is going to ditch their class A system because of heat, I guess a tube system is kicked out the door too! Really, the only drawback I can see in a class A is energy waste from heat dissipation.  Enough it may raise the electric bill. However in this forum that's not a problem . 

I moved from Class A/B to Class D - first to Bel Canto Ref 1000 MkII and then upgraded to Mola Mola Kalugas. Little heat, small footprint and superb power and dynamics. For me no going back to backbreaking heavy amps, even if i maybe compromising a thing or two.

To answer the OP, one of the main goals for my system was to reduce the heat in my room. I live in SoCal where temps average 85-95 degrees in the summertime, sometimes more, and electricity rates are high. I like to avoid using the air conditioner if I can.

In 2015, I had an 80 watt OTL amplifier, Class A. It was the proverbial space heater. I had a listening outfit - tank top and shorts, no socks. Not really a good look for an aging, balding audiophile. But the sound was marvelous and worth it.

The amps that replaced it are 8 watt SET mono blocks, also Class A. They barely raise the temperature in my room. It is only 70 degrees today, which is also the temperature in my listening room. I am wearing a sweater, long pants, and socks. I feel dignified. I have had my SET mono blocks for 7 years now.

When I got my SET's, I noticed that my electricity bill went down by about $75 a month. 7 years at $75 a month is $6300. My SET amps cost less than that, so I like to think that the energy savings ended up paying for them. In addition, the sound is better than ever before. Hallelujah!

I’m sadly amused at people worrying over slightly inefficient amps when the world population is exploding. We are already 6 billion over sustainable. I’m using my amp without any concerns or guilt. Btw, I have no children. That’s my contribution.

I have both a SS class D and 300B flea watt systems but I draw the line on very hot room heating tube amps 

I have recently acquired my first 300b and it burns hotter than my push pull el34. But, it’s colder now and don’t really notice. I’ll right back in summer!

I love my luxman and I live in Scotland so a bit of extra heat welcome not that I feel in old Victorian lounge with ceiling 3.6m up......

@richdirector  a wee dram could shave off the chill!

@brianh61 

Thanks for all the answers so far, the consensus with this small sampling is still what I expected, 

Of course.  You ask leading questions.

By the way, the word heat is not a proper noun and so there is no reason why it ought to be capitalised.

I love my EL34 push pull bespoke integrated amp. 6CA7, whatever. I think it uses about 300 watts.

Should things warm up I flick on the air conditioning which draws about 2000 watts.

I’m fortunate to have a dedicated transformer on the power pole supplying electricity to my home.

Having said that, I look forward to consulting with the dude who makes March Audio amps. 

Class D technology is something to think about for anyone seeking nirvana, should one understand how appropriate components have to be matched.

Otherwise, not.

Had spectral ss gear for over 20 years.  Class ab and the heat fins ran hit but not to a high level and left them on continuously.  Fell in love with a class a esoteric during a demo, and tried the more efficient models in the line up and chose the class a.  300 watts at idle so it is on only during listening and most times an hour or so.  I’m in Tampa so the heat is an issue, turn down the ac a degree.   My pool pump is 900 watts and runs 10 hours a day, so the amp has little contribution to lower needs.  

I'm not so worried about the heat. Where i live it helps keep the house cozy 6 to 9 months out of the year.  On the other hand, in Massachusetts their crazy "Strategic Electrification" program will mean my next electric bill will show an electric rate in excess of $0.40 per k/W.  So my admitted inefficient, but great sounding system will easily be adding $100.00 per month.  Yes, as class D evolves and improves it will be a consideration.  Yes, i am concerned about the value of my BAT amps and Tube preamps and my fan cooled A/B amps in an already shrinking audiophile market.      

Shrinking audiophile market jimrobie? I think you’ll find the opposite if you talk to dealers here in the US. Tube gear sales has increased considerably and I’m pretty sure audiophiles aren’t worried too much about energy efficient systems. I buy energy efficient cars, refrigerators, dish washers, light bulbs but am not too concerned with my music system. I will listen in the dark if I have to. It’s too good!

I loved my Chinese Class A amp. It sounded better than the un-rebranded Sophia A/B I have now. (B.T.W. - Sophia's profit margin on these Chinese-made amps is huge!

after a good 45 min of jamming some motorhead, onslaught, sodom, Y&T, vicious rumors, the ol monos' get pretty darn hot. its nice in the winter, not bad in summer, they are A/B not A, but they sound oh so sweet!

weight not an issue.

wasted heat , don't care,

wasted 3 volts of electricity,..hahahahah don't care

burn baby burn. the heat is what helps with the sound out of the speakers, sounds sooo good! gary and Vinnie Moore, Schenker, Derringer, UFO, Holy Moses, sound soooo damn great!!!

when nice and hot, means everything is wicked, will sound better, to me it does, 

then some Donovan, john denver, spooky tooth, Kim Simmons, teslas first

 

sounds awesome.

 

 

 

 

Great Question! 

I had a pass labs xa25.  Loved the amp but it was = to having 4 60 watt light bulbs on.  Yes there was heat and yes I didn't like it because I was running my AC in the summer while a small heater was on.

The sound was great and likely at some point in the future I will get another one but only for a sound diff.  I switched to SPL S1200 power amp which runs cooler than the SPL Preamp!  

JH

Hot amps are more likely to catch fire.   Here is Art Dudleys humorous account of an amp catching fire in his house .

 

.

 

Hot amps are more likely to catch fire.

I read that story and my first question would be something about the fuse that was used in the amp that caused such a mess.

If there were even the slightest chance that naming the manufacturer would spare someone else this inconvenience and potential danger, I would do so, but the law of averages suggests that the next time a modern electrolytic capacitor fails in such spectacular fashion, it will be in the power supply of a product from a different company. 

That lame excuse does not hold up to scrutiny, at least not in my country which bears no similarities with America.  The dodgy manufacturer ought to be named and shamed.  Should lives have been lost the dude would be guilty of criminal negligence.

I do hesitate before leaving the house for more than a couple of minutes with the amp on. My amp is not near anything but even if a tube blows, I want to be able to shut down quickly. When the power goes on, I’m home for awhile. 

Years ago I had a nice Threshold T200 that claimed Class A but was a terrible match for MartinLoga SL3s so I sold it and kept looking, mostly AB stuff.

Then I picked up a W4S STI-1000 and for good or bad it seems to power my watt-hungry speakers superbly with zero noise and a good tonal balance, not fat.

And I put recently acquired used W4S SX-500 monos on the old SL3s (now in a movie room) and those 10" woofers never spoke so authoritatively.

If I had enough money I'd love to try a big Class A amp because my speakers shine better with more clean power. You'd need the money for electric as well if you leave the amps on. I noticed our power bill drop when the old McCormack DNA-1 was turned off and pulled out of one system.

I recent sold off my excellent Classe' Audio Omega Mono's that did Pure Class A to 30% rated power, at 200lbs per amp they were never more than warm no matter how i played them. They did take a few hours to fully warm. I decided to try Trinnov AMP 16 that allegedly is a perfect match for my Trinnov AL16. They were right, its glorious, stunning even. The dynamics and detail are amazing. NEVER did I think they were going to be this good. They are Class D, they do run hot, with bridging into my LR Wilson Sophia 1 at 4ohms have 1000 watts on hand. I do the same for my center channel. The AMP 16 as 2 120v plugs that need feeding. It was a win in every direction for me. Less power, better dynamics, excellent detail. 

I previously used Krell FPB 200 for awhile. The Krell was a tad bright, not good match with my speakers at the time either and yes then the heat. I went to tubes kept the heat lost the bright. For many years I used VTL amps and lived with the heat. Currently use a Jolida JD-1000A it does not get all that hot and I live in a cooler climate these days.

 

Have you done away with your Class A Amp due to Heat concerns?

no

Will you be moving away from Class A Amp due to Heat concerns?

no

Will you never buy a Class A Amp due to Heat concerns?

no

I currently own Krell class A (FPBc series) and McIntosh class A/B amplifiers. They rarely are moved so but when they are it’s not too big a job for myself and either my wife or a buddy (got to protect the back, but will also say they have not moved in probably four years so I would not base an amp decision on moving them). My experience within my listening space there is no substitute to the class A sound. Liquid, fast attack, articulate, responsive. Our listening room is in the basement so don’t really feel the heat issues others discuss. My wife will occasionally mention the heat during the summer so when she does I turn off the Krells and power up the McIntosh. I like the sound of both our A and A/B amps - but for our speakers and room it’s the class A that take the best prize.  All that to say I’m intrigued with the advent of class D offerings - and would like to hear one. But like others - I’ve got an investment in what I have now and they all perform spectacularly. 

Had the Rotel rb1090 for just over 2 years, one morning, woke up early on Sunday, went downstairs, pushed power button on, zzzzzzfffftyttttt bright white flash, inrush limiter fried, I was angry, one of the best stand alone SEPERATES I’ve had, 380w 8:ohm, 725w in 4 ohm, made my cv d9’s absolutely,slam.

miss that,amp, but I’ve definitely surpassed her with flotsam and jetsam (my monos) that was a great sounding,amp. 
 

Never had a class A amp,  I’m told the odysseys with every top tier parts which I have are a few watts in class A, it’s not the same as a full class A pedigree. 
 

before I bought my monos I have. NOw,, I was making a decision between what I went with and  some pass lab monos. I ended up with a great price from the lady who sold em to me, as she was going through a divorce, and I pretty much stole them, but she was vindictive, and I made out like a bandit. 
 

no regrets what so ever.  I had 2000W rms from the 2 carvin dcm amps I mono’d.

they didn’t last more than a year' before things went south, you get what you pay for.  One day, I,will snatch up some class A monos. 
 

cheers

I tan a Plinius class A amp for a while but it seemed to lack power. Switched to class A/B not because of heat but performance. I like the A/B much better.

@earthbound 

+260,000      Why?

Well said !!!    The single most relevant, important post ever on this forum.

You have no children!

Nor do I.

At population replacement rate, those with children will have brought 131,000 more people into the world within 500 years, all consuming resources and energy.  Then the next 30 years will bring 128,000 more.

I will have brought.......none.

It doesn't half shut up the tree-huggers who complain about my big house, big old cars, big hi-fi etc.  They have nothing, NOTHING to say.  Their progeny will pollute the planet for ever or until a big meteor hit, a nuclear holocaust or the sun expands, whichever comes first.