The "one of them" in my case is white guy. Don't even need to 'front' to play this role.
Disagreements and Conflicts between Audiophiles have we lost our brotherhood and maturity?
I looked back over my posts and even my audio business dealings over the last 5 years and it seems like we have lost our ability to peacefully disagree or resolve disputes like grown men. Some of my best friends in this life are audiophiles and I enjoy the gear, the music and the brotherhood. I don’t enjoy the senseless spats. The inability to resolve conflicts and the people trying to destroy peoples business and reputations. Thoughts?
201 responses
@mapman there are many degrees of privilege, it’s not binary. Both my wife and I have worked extraordinarily hard all our lives to achieve the levels of success we have. My wife was “privileged” to attend a wonderful public school in Fairfax County, Virginia because her father was a school teacher in the county. But due to an ugly divorce, she received zero support from either of her parents, and worked from the age of 16 to put herself thru college and law school at local universities. Although my grandfather was a tenant farmer, my father was able to achieve upper middle class status by putting himself thru college on the GI bill after joining the Navy at age 17. He paid for me to go to a prestigious private school, Northwestern undergrad, and Harvard for graduate school. Again, both my wife and I worked our asses off, but I’d say it’s pretty obvious I was more privileged (not even taking into account my white, male status). Having said that, there are many who are way more privileged than me, people who didn’t have to earn their way into highly selective universities and incredibly lucrative careers because of their wealth and family connections, etc. So I think “privilege” is a pretty nuanced concept. |
I agree there is a difference between those who worked hard and those who inherited their good fortune. The issue is opportunity, do we really believe there is level playing field here?
As for 'fronting' we can't get past the skin we're born in, but my, my , my we sure can represent or misrepresent ourselves in so many ways. One can both learn from being 'the fly on the wall', or by playing a provocateur role. I've been told I'm being a devil's advocate more than a few times in life, does this mean those with the opposing view are God's advocates? Does everything have to be a zero sum game. |
I would up that to 80% Slightly related I still don't understand how people make 4 times more in the US than in Europe for the same job. I know the reasons now, but I don't understand how we got here. And compared that southeast Asia where this multiplier is over 10. Yes, we are privileged - based on nothing but where we are. |
Taking editorial license with the words of Albert Einstein, disagreement and conflict (argument) expressed as philosophical discussion are essential parts of science (of recording and reproduction of music); the greatest talent is the ability to strip a theory until the simple basic idea emerges with clarity. This type of disagreement is healthy. It is a hopeless undertaking to debate about fundamental value judgements. But if there is agreement on certain goals and values, one can argue rationally about the means by which these objectives may be obtained. I do not want these pages to be rose colored for there will be no value; however, I do not value sardonic expressions of emotion. The takeaway I propose is that philosophical argument on these pages is healthy as long as it is consistent with a goal or objective as audiophiles, not simply to be sardonic in a failed attempt to be humorous in one’s own eyes. I am sorry to say that there are some rare occurrences of discourse on these pages that does not conform to Einstein’s articulate position on healthy argument and become sardonic. When this occurs, simply disregard it for it is posed by someone that is simply trying to seek attention, even if it is negative attention. By participating you are feeding into their need
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Plus 1 @whart |
By my standards at the time I was growing up in the ’60s and ’70s I was not born into the lap of luxury (and I admit that back then I was envious of those who I thought were), but on the other hand I was not living in a thatched hut and being bombed and napalmed as other people were during that same period of time. Luck of the DNA lottery I guess, and as I typed a few posts ago, it could have been way worse. Yes, I feel that I was lucky/privileged when compared to others. |
Better watch out, folks. The other thread, on buying and selling, was just removed for using the "p" word. Apparently, we're not old enough to talk about things that go even remotely close create a little debate that cannot be bought or sold. Honestly, it's almost time to quit this forum. There are times I've gotten hot under the collar and had some threads removed. I could understand that -- my bad. But now it seems that, well, it takes nothing to have a thread obliterated. And yes, I know it's a private business and they can do what they want, blah blah blah. But really. |
In the past I said many unpleasant things about Audiogon policies in this respect. And though my opinion did not change - the older I get the crazier I become - I stopped that because certain people and consequentially their ways of organizing, including business endeavours, are limited by their genetics and upbringing. Not their fault, but I find it upsetting and they probably don't. So, yes, DNA lottery, this is an interesting phrase but it can also be a terrifying thought. |
@jayctoy it was great meeting you. Glad you liked our system. We received a lot of compliments today. I do this as a passion. I practice law as my profession. But this hobby is my obsession. I tell people that our gear and cables are special. I’m glad you got to confirm that today. Thanks. |
My two sense: Audiophile debates reveal layers of human psychology and social dynamics that extend far beyond mere equipment preferences. At their most basic level, audiophile arguments often revolve around picayune details—minute differences in sound signatures that imperceptible to most listeners. The intensity with which these small differences are debated reflects how humans naturally form identity through specialization and differentiation. Today’s algorithmic element is striking amplify these divisions. Audio forums and social media create engagement through disagreement, with recommendation engines serving increasingly polarized content about tube vs. solid state amplifiers or digital vs. analog sources. Even though audiogon does not have these engines, we are all now conditioned. Class dynamics are particularly evident in audiophilia. High-end audio has long functioned as a luxury status marker, with price points that explicitly segregate participants by economic class. The tension between "objective" measurements and "subjective" listening experiences often maps onto economic divides—those who can afford $10,000 speaker cables defending their value against measurement-focused critics. These conflicts mirror larger cultural patterns where taste itself functions as cultural capital. Pierre Bourdieu's concept of distinction explains how aesthetic preferences signal social position. Audiophilia exemplifies this by creating elaborate hierarchies of "refined" listening that separate the "initiated" from "casual" listeners. What makes audiophile debates fascinating - if that is not too generous a term - is that they're simultaneously about genuine technical differences, social identity formation, economic status display, and the human tendency to form passionate tribes around shared interests, be it a religion, a political party, or a celebrity. They're microcosms of larger societal tensions played out through discussions of soundstage width and frequency response. |
Which humans? My guess is our definition of "inconsequential" would differ. Other than the basic human requirements for life, everything remaining could be viewed as inconsequential. Granted social media has made interaction a bit more chippy, but I think the main evil exists not in the medium but in the fact that anyone can find and interact with others who believe exactly as they do adding a degree or normalcy to notions no matter how ridiculous. If we are conditioned and allow ourselves to be manipulated then we have no one to blame but ourselves. Dont try to pretend that you dont understand what is happening and certainly dont try to convince me that any of us are victims in this battle. Dont tune in any more than is absolutely necessary and you may find yourself pulling your own strings for a change. So many claim to hate what is happening but tune in and participate at an ever increasing rate. We are what we are (or have become) and we deserve what we get. I hate what I believe is "victim" mentality. At Axpona this weekend I saw a number of people on their phones while listening in many of the rooms. |
I enjoy listening to my setup more than I enjoy listening to humans talk about theirs. I just spent three days at Axpona and this world is FILLED with amazing gear for us to enjoy. Confusing opinion or preference with fact is silly. It's no different than debating which meal is the best, which vacation spot is the best |
Folks have lived with analog their entire lives and understand it quite well, often at expert level. Digital is different. Many people try to apply to digital what they know about analog and they become confused when that doesn't work. Some respond by studying and deepening their knowledge, while others huddle around beliefs and superstition and purchase amulets whose efficacy is commonly held to be directly proportional to how expensive they are. It's interesting that rarely does anyone argue about analog equipment like amps and speakers, despite the fact that they are the ones directly responsible for how their systems sound. |
No interest in living in an armed society, regardless of how "polite" it is. There is a strange obsession with binary choices; if you like dogs, you HAVE TO hate cats. If you like Coca-Cola, you have no choice but to despise Pepsi. Beatles or Stones, Packers or Bears, analog or digital, it doesn't really matter. As long as liking one thing is taken to mean you don't like other things this kind of scenario will continue. Human nature is pretty unnatural sometimes. |
@hifiguy42 Well put. BTW BEARS!!! |
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Thought politics and social commentary were off limits? Since the door seems open to those topics will make an general observation. When uninformed emotion driven opinion takes over, respect and courtesy toward others declines. Selfish virtue signaling rears its ugly head. US does have a love affair with guns. However, ask the 10s of millions dead at the hands of tyrants because they were disarmed - for their own safety. |
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