Dealer behavior issue

Why would you have to pay a restocking fee if the item was never shipped or opened? This whole scenario makes no sense to me! There should be no cost to you for anything. Am I missing something here????

Greed?

Was it a special order piece? 

The fact that you've already dropped $40K with him and he treats you like that, speaks volumes. 

it was not a special order unit. standard ARC amp. A new model in fact that will sell well. he acts like he can’t arrange anything w ARC to assuage the situation. Just didn’t want to help me out.

well this dealer among others now always say “i’ve already” paid for it so my hands are tied. Pretty lame. 
I don’t know what ARC would say.
A couple more facts:
I actually spent over 50k with him and he won’t agree to help me at all when I resell it. 

Elizabeth. I haven’t sent the trade unit yet but the cash portion has been fully paid.
The only reason he might think I may not buy from him again is that I explained the health situation which may diminish future purchases.
This guy is pretty well known and well regarded(i think).
To not accommodate me in any manner is very disturbing and only come the conclusion he’s greedy. This is out of character for him

also i think giving him a true 8k item that worst case sells for 4k was a fairly steep price as a restock fee. but i offered it
if not shipped to dealer yet it’s hard to see what ARCcould offer. 
finally he raves about this new ARC product which I’m sure is true. why so worried to stock given that he’ll have it at cost-4k

Business as usual would be for you to walk. You haven't taken delivery so good luck enforcing payment on you. Walk. Just Do It.

I only deal with the owner. He is out of state and ok to send to my no dealer area. I expect he’s heard it all and my problem is not his problem. I think that has nothing to do with what his behavior should have been. 
Ive bought a lot of equipment from him and we’d had a fine relationship.I do vacillate at times on purchases but have always pulled the trigger.
Im just amazed that he values me so little. 

well based on all the prior deals i simply
thought he wouldn’t freak out over losing one high dollar deal especially when offered large restock fees. i do trust him to come through with delivery.  he’s not dishonest. just a bit greedy without the long view in mind.,this was an eye opener to me

@4425

" The unit is about to be delivered and as I’ll immediately resell the unopened box I gave him a last offer. "
"The unit is about to be delivered", does this mean that it is in transit , or your understanding that it will be delivered sometime in October?
" I’ll immediately resell the unopened box ", so what do you think you'll take as a loss if you sell it unopened versus your restocking fee scenario?

If you paid by credit card; call the credit card company and file a dispute of charges. Not a custom order, and it hasn’t been delivered, unless they are made to order, I don’t see why you shouldn’t get a full refund. The transaction has not been completed. Geesh, after $50K ! I can’t see why he wouldn’t be more cooperative.

Per lendingtree

Consumers have the right to dispute a credit card purchase, whether it was posted in error,fraudulent in nature, or if the merchant didn't provide satisfactory goods or services. Challenge fraud charges immediately, but only file other types of disputes as soon as you made an effort to resolve the issue with the merchant.You typically need to file a dispute within 60 days of the transaction; however, the specific timeframe will highly depend on the type of dispute you're submitting.

• How to Dispute a Credit Card Charge
  • Fraud or Unauthorized Purchase
  • Billing Errors
  • Disputing Bad Service, Services not Rendered and Quality of Goods

This doesn't seem to hit any of those

It seems to me the dealer took your deposit and ordered the equipment.  He probably had to pay in advance.  Now for whatever reason, you do not want to finish with the deal and he does not have the cash flow to refund your money.  That's too bad and I would be upset.  Would the dealer be willing to sell the new item and pass the money back to you?

I would definitely call ARC and talk to someone in charge and relate the story.  Perhaps he can act as a middle man and help you out?

paid by wire as i’m not worried about getting the unit in the future.,my distress is to be dissed over transaction. i think i’ll come out better reselling it but would give up the restock fee in order to not have to deal with it.,my hands are full elsewhere. 

stereo5. the dealer made the point that taking my unit back with or without restock fee would cost him the sale of another unit. that’s why i tried to discuss restock fees to soften the blow. he said why would i do that. i agree IF he feels that there are no circumstances in which he doesn’t have to extract max absolute dollars.
he’s absolutely opposed to me basically consigning it to him and getting repaid after he sells it. 
btw if i revealed the dealer you would be in disbelief as to whom i’m talking about. doesn’t matter

Does the dealer regularly participate here on Audiogon?

not sure. not overtly for sure

My opinion is that the dealer has made some good money from you over the years. I’m surprised that he wants to poison that relationship. So, would you do business with him again given his current position? If not, reveal the dealer and let him suffer the consequences. Thing is, it’s not a lot of money, for him at least, I would hope. Why hurt your customer relationship not to mention your national relationship?

he’s made a lot of money on me yes. has been a really good dealer till now. he’s going to make 4 k on the sale but he’s lost me. i’ll see what he says tonight and go from there.

Strange the dealer is balking at a restock fee. A Large chunk of small businesses have major cash flow problems. As a good customer, the dealer should at least try to assist with a solution. One thing is find out the county the dealer is in and eearch online for court documents. The dealer may be in a giant pickle, divorce, tax issues... you name it. You may find some back story that is leading to the dealers behavior ( maybe not). 

I am confused.  Why don't you just buy the unit and then sell it as a new unit in an box that has not been opened?   You an discount the unit $2K or more?  The dealer has made money on your prior purchases has nothing to do with this transaction.  He put out the 60% to get the unit.  Are you saying that he has another of the exact same unit that he is selling?  Sorry but I am not following the process you laid out.

I am not sure if ARC has units laying around ready to be shipped or if they build them to order.  He could be a nice guy and work with you but you also could just take delivery of the amp and resell the unit on your own.  Are you just saying that the dealer should be nicer to you because you are a repeat customer and that is your main issue?

Sorry about the health situation also.


 

He's already made his position clear, I can't imagine having any further business dealings with him of any kind. I'd complete the deal and walk away without looking back. You'd be better off selling the piece on consignment at a closer shop than becoming involved in yet one more deal with him.A lot of people are great to deal with when the money is going in their direction, and not so good if it's anything other than that.
Best of luck with all of it, particularly your wife's health concerns.

@4425...……………………...

I have dealt with dealers all over the USA and my worst experience has been with a dealer close to me that is located in the New England area. I had been buying from this dealer since the late 70’s and spent over 20K during that time. I also brought a good friend to the dealer and introduced him to the owner and over the years, my friend has spent well over 50K in that store. Back in 2010 time frame, I bought a SACD player from the dealer and needed a cable for it. Needless to say I paid triple retail for the cable due to them shortening the length for me. This wasn’t an 8K catastrophe like your deal is, but it hurt just the same.  32 years of customer loyalty lost over  3-4 hundred dollars. The owner who I knew well never responded to my email or calls. Your dealer should be ashamed as should mine. I no longer do business with that dealer and once drove 600 miles round trip to the next closest dealer for something I was buying, just to not give that dealer any more money.

Personally I would take the unit and resell as a new in box and never do business with that dealer again. 
There are always three sides to every story - yours, mine and the truth which is a combination of your
and mine. That being said the fact that you have spent $50k with this dealer and asked him to help you with a difficult situation and he was not very willing tells me he either has more business than he can deal with and doesn’t mind losing you as a customer or he is not a very good businessman and lacks an understanding of what customer service really means. I would hate to lose your business and would not wanting you using the internet to tell everyone how much I failed to satisfy a reasonable request. That is devastating to any business let alone and industry that is so small. I would definitely dump him and find a better dealer.

I would take Joe’s advice above, get it done and focus on other important issues.  It really is a shame however since you have promoted this dealer in past threads. My guess is that he is in Sarasota, Florida.

Many years ago I had a similar scenario with a local dealer. I had bought a lot of gear from this guy..always at full retail. One day I walked into his store and was looking at a couple of records. His sales person asks me if I am going to keep looking at the records or am i going to be buying something; he then tells me if I am not buying something to get out of the store! With that, i ask for the manager/owner...whom i had always bought from. I get the same basic response from this guy...buy or leave! So, guess what, i left and never came back. After a few years, the dealer went into insolvency and closed his doors. For some reason, I get some pleasure out of that.
If I were the OP, I would take the amp, resell it for whatever I could get for it...and make sure that I never dealt with this dealer again...and made sure that all in my sphere did exactly the same thing.

Just name and shame.  

I imagine there are some customers that make selling stereos a little less fun. No matter how much they spend . Not saying the OP is one of these but perhaps the store owner is feeling a little taxed in the helpful and courteous department.  

@davekayc  Perhaps. But then the dealer didn't have to take the order(s) (make the sale) from the customer in the first place...nobody required him to do that. 

This dealer is a greedy pud. You need to expose him I was a dealer 
for a number of years. Did he give you ar least 15% off  as a good dealer would for example, besides Thst he made a lot of money 
as a restocking fee was more then fair . Expose this person to save others the hassle  and Never recommend this one .it is people like him that are bad for Audiophiles. Buyers are his life’s blood .A little empathy would have been nice .his dirty deed should not go unpunished ,for it showed a total lack of respect for you and your wife ,your offer was most generous. Screw him and the high horse he wrode in on. I sold a lot of gear your gear was upper end he makes around 50% markup . In the long r
lost ,for you will never do business with him again , and expose 
what dealer did this to save others. A true Audiophile wouldnot 
have acted like that like myself I would have worked out something with you on friendly terms knowing you would recommend me to others, and possibly to buy  something in the future . By saying nothing to fellow Audiophiles will allow this 
parasite to keep negatively hurting the good name of Audio .
best to you  and I hope you wife gets well.

So much not quite right here, at least from my perspective.

$8k for an amp? $50k in trade already? This kind of inflexibility from a well regarded dealer?

I guess it’s safe to conclude, as is someimes said, money doesn’t change character, it reveals it.

If the facts are as you say I can easily understand your disappointment. Perhaps a little bit of naming and shaming might further your cause here?

At the very least it might result in the dealer putting forward his side of this sorry story.

If you're in the U.S. the rules regarding restocking fees are governed by each state and if there are any fees or "no return" terms, they must be disclosed at time of sale.  It seems like you negotiated or attempted to negotiate a custom restock fee, but you also paid with wire upfront, rather than even a check?  That audio dealer hasn't even remitted the money to the manufacturer/distributor yet....it seems like if he was reputable in the first place, he would only require a deposit so that you're not wasting his time ordering something that is never accepted by the buyer...or if he knew you would just order the thing.  If he gave you a date when it was to be received by him and it's not there as promised, he hasn't fulfilled his end of the transaction.  Also, the manufacturer or distributor probably wouldn't be happy hearing about this person...in fact, in cases when I've done this, the retailer was seething...because they are at risk of losing their relationship.  And by the time they talk to you again after a 'friendly' conversation with their supplier, you'll have a check waiting. .. hopefully.  In any case, always use a credit card, but also don't let a retailer put you over a barrel.  There's no requirement that a refund be given for anything purchased ever..as a return...., but you didn't order a custom lime green aluminum chassis with yellow LEDs.  If you haven't, or never, take delivery, he can't keep your money forever.  You always have the option of self-initiated court action, which is a pain, but the fees are relatively cheap and then there will be a public record of that vendor being a defendant.  You can also always sell the item on your own but why take that basis risk?  You haven't opened it or taken possession.  Given that you've never opened it, unless the manufacturer is on the brink, the most that anyone is actually harmed is shipping costs....restock on an unopened item?  You could also ask for full value as store credit.  Even the worst jerky store would take that most days of the week....they have the money and you have to remember to spend it there.  But, as others are probably having disappointing experiences, if the store goes out of business, your store credit is essentially gone as you'll be way down in the stack of people they repay if anything is left.  It seems like you shouldn't have to surrender something of value (your gently used item) that wasn't in the original transaction just to unwind a purchase that hasn't even been shipped or arrived at the store yet.  That sort of entangling would really make a high-end manufacturer unhappy.  It seems very predatory.

Typically, the dealer is not charged for ANY product until it ships.  If the product hasn’t even left ARC then most likely he hasn’t even been charged yet!  Where did the money go? You should be eligible for a full refund because he’s out nothing.  The next logical solution is that he spent the money on other operating costs so he has enough left to pay the cost of the unit, but not enough to give you a refund.

There are way too many holes in your story to be believable. There must be something else that you are not including. Why would you be charged anything if the item was never shipped? A full refund without a restocking fee or any other charge would be the norm. The only fee if any should be the shipping from ARC to the dealer and from the dealer back to ARC!

Lot of quick judgments about the dealer with only the ops stated story of the "facts".

@facten - Exactly!

this is not a complicated story and i’m sure not very interesting but i wanted to know if others have had such an experience. I have offerred generously to undo a purchase that i committed to way before the unit was built. i know that i’ll get the unit; there’s nothing dishonest here. i’ve been buying audio gear for over 40 years and trust him enough to wire payment to him. 
its when he said “why would i take it back as i’d rather sell two? “ that bugs me. 
anyway i’ll take the unit(obviously) and resell at less of a loss than the restocking fees i offerred him. i do change my mind at times about which cable to get etc but never on big ticket items till now. if he doesn’t like me he shouldn’t take my orders which have been extensive. we’ve always gotten along well till this. 

also what holes are there? i made a commitment to buy an expensive amp and changed my mind about buying it. this was my fault. all efforts to undo the sale, before the unit was built failed. He didn’t want to lose the profit. I get it. 
Are other dealers this ‘hard’ is all i want to know.

for the doubters please check my feedback to see if i’m a creep

donvito154 posts10-06-2019 7:22am

There are way too many holes in your story to be believable. There must be something else that you are not including. Why would you be charged anything if the item was never shipped ...

And the fact that the OP hasn't identified the dealer casts further doubt as to what is actually happening here.

4425 I believe you. What exact item do you now not want? Please list and price maybe someone in this thread (even myself) may help you out.