Darko nailed it. 12 examples of wishful thinking in the hi-fi community

I suppose that there are those that care.  I'm not one.  

@rpeluso Charming, well good for you. 

So much nicer reading people’s thoughts on hifi related topics rather than on  politics.  Much easier to take it or leave it as a convenience.  Anyone can express their opinions to a wide audience these days.  Interesting times.   We will see what happens.

In general, I find Darko site useful in that it addresses good products that actually can benefit many people, not just those few with the deepest pockets who care about what is marketed as "high end".

I take some issue with No. 7, I prefer my vinyl remains all analog. 

I’ve digitized a lot of vinyl at CD resolution.  Even a few 78’s   The digital versions sound just like the original analog.  THe reverse could never be true.   Hmmmm.

@mapman could just be confirmation bias.

9. Internet-based audiophile communities are mostly polite and convivial. 

All are valid but this one checks a box for me. I’ve been a mostly active member here& AA for 25 yrs. I used to enjoy it. But for  the last 3 yrs I feel like I have a target on my back. So I just stay away mostly

+1 @artemus_5  fully understand, I don't post as much as in previous yrs

@rpeluso Thanks for letting everyone know. We were all going to spend the day wondering, "I wonder if @rpeluso  cares about this." Phew. Load off my mind.

The problem with Darko is the lack of substance. He is an entertainer and he is content by scratching the surface, barely. Some of these are recycled points and some of them are so contrived "nobody said ever" it's painful to read. From his mouth it will reach a larger audience. 

@mapman give me a minute and I will twist politics into this too 

while this is one of the cringiest one, it’s worth discussing and a separate post

8. Being an audiophile is “all about the music”

First, audiophiles are KNOWN to be about the gear. How much - it all varies. Second, they are not about the music, but about the sound. Do they like music, sure. But unlike 97% of the population that cares about the music, audiophiles care about how the music sounds. Compared to xyz variations in the room, source, cable, etc. They are looking for the magic sound. 

Third, they care about a zillion things regarding the gear. Where it was made, what the person’s philosophy about crossover and flaws are who designed it, how it looks (why??? - this is a strange one, I care too much about looks, does it affect the sound?), how it triggers more tweaking, soundstage width and depth, the tv between, stuff that would make most normal people to say "you need help, I am not kidding". 
Audiophiles care about the gear, music lovers care about the music. Are there people who are both? Sure.

You can’t take the audiophile out of the hifishop but you will never take the itch out of the audiophile to surround themselves with gear. It’s like gambling. 

@mapman could just be confirmation bias.

@invalid Of course could be confirmation bias listening but not so much in this case I would say based on extensive sample size listening randomly over time to different releases of same album, some vinyl source, some various digital  remasters,  I can usually tell which source is playing when it comes up randomly in my playlists.  

I can tell the vinyl sources even in cases where there is no surface noise clearly audible.  THe unique properties of a specific record come through loud and clear, whether good bad or neutral. 

I always use ultrasonic vinyl cleaning machine on a record prior to digitizing for best results.  I am also often able to tell which specific digital mastering of album I am hearing.

For records in less than perfect condition, where I cannot filter out all teh noise during digitizing process in Audacity,  its a piece of cake to tell a vinyl sourced digital version.   Surface noise present in the source comes through loud and clear along with all the rest.   Have never heard vinyl surface noise otherwise. 

As a result I play a record once in order to convert to digital in my library, then I stream via Roon from there.  I do keep the records afterwards however because 1) I still like having records and 2) in case anything were to hapen and teh digital files lost.  I do backups of my library regularly though so not likely.

Perhaps as I downsize further over time, some records may go just so my kids no longer have to deal with them when I am gone.

@gano +1!

@gano Start it, it's all you pal.

while this is one of the cringiest one, it’s worth discussing and a separate post

8. Being an audiophile is “all about the music”

I appreciate the permission pal 

@gano Sure thing buddy. . 

let's get a beer, first things first. 

@gano Maybe one day, 

you know how to slow things down choir boy 

Can anyone do a quick recap list of the 12 things for those of us who listen to music instead of watching Youtube? 

I rarely find Darko interesting, but the points he makes are valid, at least most of them. But they are also obvious. Yes, these internet places get pretty nasty and of course its oxymoronic to spend tens of thousands of dollars on gear, and claim its only about music. And the sad reality is that you generally get what you pay for.

We knew that. Still, useful to organize these points in one article.

While Darko mentions that trying to demo a component at an audio show one is actually hearing the entire chain, it’s seems that often audio shows and audio stores are the only places to demo.  While trying out component in one’s own audio chain is ideal, it’s often impossible/impractical. 

I felt much of it is those who care or understand audio and those who don't. 

@kennyc Exactly. 

I just attended T.H.E. SHOW in Costa Mesa. I was very excited as this was my first audio show. What a disappointment! I was hoping to compare various versions of items from manufacturers. Not possible. Innuos had no representative, and the room that had the equipment chose not to use it at all during my time in the room as they were focusing on speakers and power amps. I asked questions about the various models from Stream 3 to Zen NG. They recommended something else from another brand that I was not interested in and would not use the Zen NG in the room.

Aurender was a bit better, but I was not able to compare various models. I did buy a used N20 from a dealer, I was hoping to compare it to other Aurender options, but there was not chance. Most local dealers have a very limited supply of items from various manufacturers. THE Show did not help.

The room set ups were terrible. Some of them were so out of whack I could not stay more than a minute or two.

I was impressed with the Chesky speaker room. They had a great pair of speakers for under a $1000. Considering getting pair for my son.

A couple of the electrostatic speaker rooms were interesting, but one would only focus on a surround system. I cannot imaging a room with nice electrostats plus two subs. Rediculous.

The cable rooms were next to impossible to get any relevant information about the different models. 

Some brands were listed on rooms (Pass Labs), but none of the equipment was represented? Weird.

I wasn't expecting the seminars to be much, but they were actually the highlight of the show.

I won't be back next year. Three days and a bunch of general frustration. I learn more reading the biased Audiogon posts. Thanks for a taste of sanity.

@hilde45 + 1

@sns 

Hifi is all about preferences and opinions and all analogue is a perfectly legitimate tried and tested way of going about things.

However, Darko is absolutely spot with point no. 7 - digitisation is very far from a sonic disaster for analogue sources.

Linn’s Urika II digital phono stage is a big upgrade on the all analogue equivalent. Plus, digitisation offers the prospect of further reducing noise, distortion and interference in the preamp and crossovers. 

@invalid 

Everything could be confirmation bias. Let’s all just abandon hifi altogether. 

@gano 

"The problem with Darko is the lack of substance. He is an entertainer and he is content by scratching the surface, barely. Some of these are recycled points and some of them are so contrived "nobody said ever" it's painful to read. From his mouth it will reach a larger audience."

It might appear a bit simplistic to us audiophiles, but that's what Darko has to do to appeal to a wide audience.

Nevertheless, most of what he says is valid.

@rpeluso 

"I suppose that there are those that care.  I'm not one."

Yet you cared enough to post a comment. 

........I personally found it useless and can't get that time back I wasted. The guy is trolling and nothing new that hasn't already been discussed a million times ....did it, done it and moved on.   

He’s incorrect.  You do NOT need room treatments if you set your system properly.  And no. Hes wrong on giant killers. There are MANY out there.  Lets start with the Audiopax Model 88 which when released was priced at under 10k.  Yes you read that right.  Under 10k!!!.  

Darko is an important voice in the hobby. You don't have to agree with his subjective takes on everything, but if you say he's useless with everything then you need to understand why you don't have friends.

@newton_john In my post I stated taking some issue with the digitization, and a preference for all analog. I agree its far from a disaster.

@mapman Michael Fremer made a video about how amazing MoFi’s expensive Original Master Recording vinyl sounded, how digital can never sound like this, how he can tell the difference. Turns out that record among many other MoFi Original Master Recordings was cut from DSD lol.

@sns 

Sorry, I misunderstood your comments.

It’s unfortunate that the likes of Darko try to wind us up to get attention.

Yet, he is capable if doing more detailed and thoughtful features such as this interview with Peter Cormeau. https://darko.audio/2023/10/podcast-10-hi-fi-myths-busted-w-peter-comeau/ It still has a clickbait title though.

while this is one of the cringiest one, it’s worth discussing and a separate post

8. Being an audiophile is “all about the music”

First, audiophiles are KNOWN to be about the gear. How much - it all varies. Second, they are not about the music, but about the sound. Do they like music, sure. But unlike 97% of the population that cares about the music, audiophiles care about how the music sounds. 

+1 @gano 

A. What's wrong with liking sound as much if not more than music, anyway?

Comment: No one ever makes an argument when they say this – they just imply it's self evident. But Steve Gutenberg – a huge music fan – talks about being fascinated as a kid by the static between stations on the radio. That's pretty cool. And I bet Brian Eno and a thousand other artists are also fascinated by sound as much as music. The presumption that music>sound is a dogmatic one and anyone who asserts it also believes a host of other self-indulgent opinions.

B. What's wrong with liking gear? 

Comment: Shall we go after car nuts, next? Foodies? Trainspotters? People like things for random and personal reasons and that's kind of cool. If someone is caught in an OCD loop, well, that's too bad – but don't blame "gear." That's their hangup, man.

@hilde45  

and I should add: it's a harmless hobby, with low carbon footprint. (Unless I drive cross-country for an amp)

... but if you drive cross-country in a Tesla...

I can see John Darko reacting to this thread thinking, WTF?

All the best,
Nonoise

"T.H.E. SHOW in Costa Mesa. I was very excited as this was my first audio show. What a disappointment!"

thriftyaudio-

I was hoping  someone would mention T.H.E. Show last weekend. 

Other than the fact turnout was very low attendee(good for maneuvering in between rooms/elevator)it was a waste of my $25 day pass! The 2 friends I went with felt the same.

None of the "BIG Guns" had representation and you could tell some exhibitors didn't  want to be there.

The speakers mentioned - budget/value Chesk and ESL were among the few that caught my attention.

Otherwise, a sad audio show.😪

Entering the lobby of the hotel, one couldn't tell an event was even happening!

Go to Axpona or plan a vacation  around one of the European /Asian  shows.

Glad I did not spend the 2.5 hours driving the 100 miles to the show. That show used to be great.

I don't mind a 'target on my back'....still nimble 'nuff.... ;)

J.D.'s 'broad brush' comments are like wall paint colors....either liked or not.

Generally, one likes what's in hand until it's not.

It can be expensive...or not.

Subtle is an experience, and enough time and verbiage has been expended on that pursuit...see the the comment above this one.

It's a pursuit...a hobby....a desire...whatever you feel it needs to be.

How you fulfill that is entirely up to You.

...and that's my HO and vector into all 'audio'.  You're welcome to come hear here.

Anything else is just gas...expelled on a silent keyboard and screen...

DRBOOP.......I will say it again that it was '' useless '' . I am blessed with many long time friends and a very strange and very odd comment that you would equate me liking a '' useless ' video to having friends. Very odd .....

Rap is crap & NOT real music..
 Electronic is NOT real music,it is sound.
#9 is so far removed from fact it lives on Mars..
#5 is true but will NEVER be accepted or acknowledged because of the subconscious justification of those who can simply afford more & the manipulation of those who have set themselves up as golden ear influencers..
#1,I challenge ANY golden ear to prove this in blind listening tests..
 

@nonoise Funny! He’d probably think that. One of his trademarks is to the the "outsider with insider knowledge." This is like the Mikey guy. (Actually, he’s the "rebel-who-tells-it-like-it-is-but-also-wants-to-sell-you-stuff-but-hey-its-not-about-the-money.) Then, there are others like Hans Beekhuyzen or Steve Guttenberg who don’t really bother with playing at being outsiders. They know their stuff, they like it, and they don’t feel a need to constantly tell people that they "Don’t listen to that tired old audiophile music" or some other story to prove that they are outsiders – "Hey, I’m just like you." I find Darko to be about 40% "Too cool for school" and while he’s done some great episodes, his overall persona is – to me – tiresome.

@freediver

Rap is crap & NOT real music..
 Electronic is NOT real music,it is sound.

Why do you think this? Curious about the reasons.

What John Darko is doing is to get a conversation going. I also watch/read other reviewers.

#13 - I have been to 1 audio show, SWAF in 2024, small show, easy to view ever room. I also take trips to visit physical stores to listen. Better synergy, room treatments.

#14 - Listen to new, buy used/trade-in. Some people can buy new, I buy their used. Mola Mola Tambaqui, Grimm MU1