Can hi-end cables benefit less expensive electronics?

If you believe that hi end cables make a difference then it stands to reason that the mediocre sound produced by mediocre equipment will be transferred to you much more efficiently allowing you to experience the mediocre sound so much more thoroughly and be disappointed so much more completely.  

@skinzy their Absolute Copper ICs are really good as well. I had pretty much the entire AZ line  

I now have Audience FrontRow speaker cables and they’re fantastic!

@audphile1 Would agree with Acoustic Zen recommendation.  I've been using their Absolute Speaker Cable for years now and very happy.  It's an old design that was done right.

@skinzy that’s because Audioquest cables in general aren’t all that in my experience. I had their Thunder, Tornado and Hurricane PCs and didn’t like them in a long run. I do like their Diamond USB cable though.

Better value and performance can be obtained from Audience, Nordost and Acoustic Zen to name a few.

Yeah, it is sort of crazy what they can get out of an engine these days.  I just bought a new vehicle with a V6 (non-electric) that has higher HP than the very cool 455HO V8, and many other hot engines from back in the day.

I have no idea what that has to do with cables except that vehicles cost more these days.

kind of like all that noise out of say a 455 HO V8 compared to a modern twin turbo V6 with electric boost?  Just :)

Fairy dust, Diminishing returns Placebo sucks rendering the only wow factor being the ability to return product wearing that brown paper bag. 

@squared80 +1. I recently upgraded my Wireworld cables to very high end AudioQuest with very minimal improvement in SQ.

@mceljo 

Good reference. Shows why Cardas can be great choices for many different systems. As far as I know Cardas is the only company that tries to be appropriate at different levels of component investment.

https://www.cardas.com/choosing-a-cable

This link from Cardas Audio addresses your question and provides their perspective.

@johnnyotto

+1 Me to.

Absolutely get the best digital cable you can. I would pick a budget range - say $200 - $400 - and you will be amazed. Most people agree your digital source (especially the DAC) is the most important component you have, and transmitting the information TO the DAC is very important. I would recommend something like the Silnote Morpheus 111 Reference 111 to try out. 

Silnote Audio, Products (mcssl.com)

Hi-end cables won't even benefit hi-end equipment. So no. 

Simply put once you get to a certain level 

of quality from a reputable cable mfg with a track record

they are all good. The Cable Company is where I would start

Call Jason at The Cable Co. Your system will improve with good cabling and will allow you to upgrade components in the future without touching your cables

Good luck Willy-T

Good cables will let your components perform at their best.
Poor quality cables will hamper their performance.

Most "high-end" cables are ridiculously overpriced and while they will,
no doubt, do a good job, most are a hype-driven rip off.

You can find some top quality cables that you can afford and use with the finest gear at: https://silversolids.com/

Whenever I upgrade cables I always buy cables that are a bit of a stretch to what I can afford and better than my current components might indicate, so I’m always moving towards "better". I get the benefit of better sound immediately and I’m also future proofing my cables for later when I get better components.

Just a reminder that Transparent has many tiers. For me they all share the same characteristics of being very neutral and well, transparent. For me, after hundreds of hours of experimenting with many different brands of mainstream cables, to me these are the best for high end systems (systems that are synergistic and performing at a very high level… so, you want no tonal adjustment… just the sound of the components coming through). So, dedicating cabling as being Transparent of what ever tier is appropriate makes one’s life much easier and will give reliably outstanding results.

As one moves up from midfi to budget high end to high end component Cardas is probably the best choice ( they are warm, warmes in the lowest tier and most transparent at the highest level). For very high quality system Transparent can be the best choice. Then when over $50K per component (my components are not in this category) very careful comparison between Transparent and Nordost should be made… their top level are simply breathtaking.

I guess there are some misconceptions concerning silver cables. A poor silver cable can sound bright but a good one, like some top Siltech cables, for example, may sound sweet and beautiful. Not all silver is the same. And that’s also one of the reasons why I started this discussion with regard to digital cables as I’m not sure if Furutech’s silver wire they recommend for DIY digital is actually good enough. Somehow Furutech does not use silver for their top of the range digital cables....

BTW, in one system, where I have a 20 and 30 foot run from amps on the side to speakers, I have made speaker cables from Furutech FS alpha 36 wire and Furutech Gold Spades.  They are excellent.  They replaced generic 8 gauge  copper wires that I also made.  I kept the old copper wires as one run to the low end, and used the Furutech to bi wire into the top end.  big improvement.

I think different cable types also interact with different levels of equipment. As @soix  said, a good digital cable can help any system or digital front end.  Similarly, I have never heard a nicer power cable cause detriment, but always improve or smooth things out.  Of course better equipment will reveal more goodness. 

But interconnects and speaker wires can be detrimental.  Silver cables (to me) tend to exploit glare and harshness.  Nice copper cables are what I like, and they provide smooth resolution throughout the entire spectrum (Kubala Sosna Realization and elation for me)

@waytoomuchstuff, thank you for a very interesting response. I looked at your nickname here and it instantly resonated with my present state of mind ;-) Too much stuff on my mind now! Cable upgrades, or perhaps component upgrades etc. I personally benefited from using Furutech Nanoflux cables in my modest system, and that originally gave me an idea that cable upgrades might sometimes be worth it if you have some spare cash to burn, even if they sometimes seem illogical. My focus currently is on the digital link, which, I suspect, is much less known as to being a worthwhile investment. The knowledge of cables evolves, wth much opposition from some people. In the past, there was a discovery that IC cables matter a lot, then speaker cables. Then there was an uproar when somebody suggested power cables also matter, with later many people saying this is actually the most important cable in the system. There are still few audiophiles who acknowledge that digital cables are as important (bits are bits, right?). I've heard also an opinion from somebody who said this actually can be the most important cable in highly resolving digital setups. 

if the furutech Cable is OCC single crystal then the transfer Excel won't be better because they use cheap OFC wire.

Price is absolutely not indicative of quality, especially with wires of any kind. Also, they don't make any objective difference regardless of what people think they "hear."

I really hesitate to inject general statements into discussions. But, here goes:

I have never heard a system at any price that didn’t benefit from better cables.

Can you use the wrong cable in a given system? Also true.

I was a dealer for 35+ years. This doesn’t make me smarter. But, it did allow me to a have a bigger "toy box" than most. At any one time, I may have had a dozen, or so, various price points of a given cable type from 3, or more, manufacturers in my grasp. I was a dealer who also lived and breathed high performance audio, so experimenting was one of those activities I enjoyed the most. And I did!! (Also was awarded a speaker patent).

Swapping components, cables, and messing around with anything (yes ANYTHING) that could potentially make a difference in SQ was on the table. Of course, each "new" idea introduced a level of complexity that grew exponentially. Cables matter. Any type. Any system. Any price point. And, "other" things. You just have to have access to a number of them, and the time to experiment.

I’’ll go back to my first visit by Bill Low, founder of Audioquest. He would break out a variety of speaker cables along with (surprise!) a jam box with removable speakers. And, the speaker price point progression demos began. It was very effective on a box that retailed for a couple hundred bucks -- at best. Recently, we were working on a little project for a friend which included a $99 Class D plate amp. This amp had a nasty upper midrange, sounded like mono coming out of 2 speakers, and no bottom end. First thoughts: "Sorry, but we can’t recommend this." I looked over at a premium power cord, and thought: "Nah." The tug-of-war went on for few more seconds, then I thought: "What the heck?" and plugged in the better PC. What was a completely unlistenable amp now had bass, imaging, and the "nastiness" went from "R" to "PG" rating.

I use a metric I refer to as "percentage of increase" in SQ for evaluating potential upgrades. A 10% improvement in SQ for a 10% increase in cost is a good value. A 10% increase in SQ at, say, 3% of the cost is a bargain. This could happen with cable upgrades, or component upgrades. Or, something else. But, it’s not surprising, in my world, that cables often offer better bang for the buck than component upgrades. Sometimes not. That’s why listening to a range of possibilities (with an open mind) is the key.

@ghdprentice comment about a particular manufacturer’s products at various price points interacting with the system in a similar manner is interesting. I can accept this premise in that a manufacturer’s design philosophy is usually consistent throughout. Mainly, more/better materials as price increases.

At Axpona 2023 Audiovector had the QR 7($6500) with $9200 flagship Cardas speaker cables. This was easily the best sounding larger floorstander under $10k at the show. I believe the main reason for cable backlash is many Audiophiles are unwilling(fearful) to put the time, effort and money into finding out the truth.

This discussion is a gold mine!

Thank you, Lloyd for taking the time to respond and your precious input. 

Hey there,

Just thought I'd lend my experience to this discussion. Several years back when my system was real basic, I tried out some nice rca cables far outclassing the quality of components and was floored at being able to hear the difference. As my system progressed, I tried some even nicer usb and rca cables and again couldn't believe the level of improvement. Last week I was doing a cable demo and set things up for my dac and popped in a cheap power cord because I didn't feel like grabbing my regular nice one out of the other room. Big mistake, as I immediately could hear a crappy, harsh, grainy sound. I quickly swapped in my proper power cord and fired it back up and just laughed at how much nicer things sounded. Very, very audible improvement. Point being, if you have decent components and speakers, pairing them with quality cables is an absolute improvement. Think of the cables like tires on a car. If you were to have a race car, would you put tires from a Prius on there? Probably not. On the flip side, if you were to put soft racing slicks on a Mazda Miata, you think it'd be an improvement on the track? Heck yes it will. Can everyone tell a difference in how their car drives with different tires? Probably not.

After lots of demo cables through my system, I've landed on Hapa Audio Aero Cu usb cable, Hapa Ember rca, GR Research B24 power cables, and next is GR Research 24 speaker cables. Each and every one of these cables have been a major step up in quality of music reproduction that improve every aspect of sound in my system. I've heard some very nice other cables through here as well, but they surpassed what my wallet is comfortable with. Lol.

In my system, I've found that I prefer good copper cable over silver in most cases, but there are a few silver cables that bring something special to the party. I recently did a demo of Empirical Audio new Kloud 9 rca cables and was thrilled at the level of detail and soundstage from them without any harsh edginess. I guess my point is, have fun and try some stuff out. Buy from smaller cable producers as your quality/cost ratio will be far higher and likely have a good demo/return policy. Listen to your system and try to see where you'd like an improvement. Is the soundstage kinda flat and you wish it were deeper, more 3d? Do you wish you could hear some more detail in plucked guitar strings and drums? The really nice cables should be able to bring a good bit of everything to the table in quality tone, improved details, increased dynamics and bigger soundstage. Giving yourself an idea where you'd like to go should really help direct your purchases to be big wins rather than trial and error.

Hope this helps,

-Lloyd

I don't know anything about digital systems, but my rule of thumb is to limit the cost of cables to 5% the cost of my overall system.  That seems like a reasonable compromise to keep the cables from being the weak point.

As I see it, if I were to sum up, it's worth upgrading but not necessarily to the top-of-the-line cables like Transparent XL (in case of digital), because a hi-end cable (an expensive rip-off for some) might actually show the system's weaknesses more than a more forgiving cable. And, at the end of the day, it's the pleasure from listening to your favourite music that counts the most. 

Thank you so much for such great response to my question. Of course, somebody who said, paraphrasing, how the hell one should know what I would personally experience with cable upgrades in my system that nobody knows is right. This was meant to be a general question considering people's experience in buying expensive cables for relatively cheaper electronics, and I'm grateful that you shared. Cable topics always raise controversy but I have not seen a similar discussion before, and perhaps this discussion will benefit some people using this forum in the future. I guess many people might be tempted with serious cable upgrades because it's always cheaper than upgrading electronics, so I believe this topic might be useful. I guess it is true there is no point in going over the top with cable upgrades, even if tempted by reviewers who always speak of huge differences with whatever they review (even really minor upgrades such as footers). 

A lot of good advice already.  My experience is that cable matching to your system is critical.  More expensive is not always better.  But IMO, cables do make substantial changes and possible improvements allowing you to get the most from your system.  
 

A couple of years ago, I upgraded my CD transport and was considering to upgrade my 30 year old DAC.  Before the additional expensive purchase, I decided to invest a bit in a digital interconnect (Cardas Parsec) and a power cord (SUPRA LoRad) for the DAC.  For the first time, I actually like my CD playback.  I may buy a new DAC someday, but I am in no rush.  I have become quite happy with my old DAC.  My total cost was $300, not $4K.  

  I think some experimentation would be worth your time, especially if you have not tried any other cables with your system. As @soix said, a good digital cable can make a huge difference. I found this to be true, even when I was running a budget system. I am not sure I would jump straight to the Transparent, but I would try some options to confirm that your current cable is not holding you back. 

I had a $500 Sony XDR-F1HD tuner that was modded by the XDRguy.com and it got rave reviews. However, it was actually the worst of my 4 tuners. The other 3 being really excellent. I decided to put an Audience Au24 SE RCA cable on the tuner. That elevated the sound to a considerable level, almost as good as my 3rd best tuner.

If you believe it could make the CD player sound better, then you also believe it could make it sound worse. And I should add.. no detectable difference as the third possibility. 

Looking forward to the anecdotal testimony when you put it in the system! That should solve it!

My  vintage Harman Kardon system was not exactly cheap when I bought it back in 1990. It has served me well and I enjoy it immensely.  I did notice some improvement when I replaced the stock interconnects with the Audioquest Tower line. I noticed even more improvement when I went from Monster Cable to Morrow Audio SP6 speaker cables. Thèse things seem to give me a more accurate sound with a little more base, clarity etc.  Decent wire can probably enhance any system,  just don't get too crazy with it and use  common sense.

I get to use that old vintage line again.. You can’t make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear !

Cheers 

There’s nothing exist as high end cables

its high expensive scamming cables 

My .02 cents…while my equipment is decidedly mid-fi (NAD C700 Integrated Streaming Amp) my room is well treated and I have a Furman Digital 8 power conditioner/surge protector and a hospital grade outlet.  On a whim I decided to try an inexpensive ($170.00 ish) Cullen Brand Gold Series power cord and immediately upon installing it I noticed a positive change in sound, more detailed and fuller sounding, which only became better after about 50 hours of break in use.  So while I can’t say anything directly to your question, I can say without question that a better than stock power cord made a big difference in my system.

Why would you ask if a cable would improve your system? Nobody has your system, or your room, so how can somebody know how your system will sound with a different cable? Only you can tell if a cable will make your system sound better.

Also, what’s expensive? $50? $500? $5000? I have never heard a $50 or $500 cable that made my system sound its best. The cables that made my system sound its best cost way more than $500 each. But if you do this auditioning of cables, you want to make sure you are keeping your equipment because the cable you buy today with your current gear might not be the best cable for your new gear.

Get the gear you want for the next few years, then audition cables once you break in your new equipment.
 

Less expensive electronics limit will sound better, 

but they hold back the potential of the cables.

I recently installed a significantly upgraded power cable to my Marantz AV8805 and experienced a major improvement in extension immediacy and soundstage from this change.

To your question, my answer is "not to any meaningful degree," IME and IMO, but of course, YMMV.

Knowing I will be upgrading my system in not too distant future, I’ve implemented cabling that were considerably above the level of the components. 
I had Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper ICs connecting Chord Qutest to Rogue RP1 and once again Rogue RP1 to Rogue ST100 amp. The improvement was apparent and the cables took that system to another level. I then added Nordost Brahma power cord to the RP1 and improved the sonics even further. 
 

So it’s up to you what to do. Generally components first, room acoustics second, then cables. 

Try to buy the cables used, you will save about. 50%. 

Also I would like to add that I’m not expecting to transform my system from something I hate into something I will love. It’s a question for me of taking my system to something more exquisite, giving it some sublime touch. And here’s where I think (believe) good cables can do the job. I’m quite happy with the system as it is and I have no hopes for bringing it to the stratosphere. I was just hoping for some more refinement. And I just thought that companies such as Transparent with their XL digital link might help me here, as I have an opportunity of getting it at a good price... 

Soix, thank you. 

And just to remind you, I’m currently using a Furutech FX - Alpha Ag + CF-102 NCF R. By the way, I’m so surprised I’m getting such great answers without the crowd saying that cables don’t matter. What are they doing? Barbecue?? :-)

I locked into Transparent on the basis of reviews (!) and the fact that I can get it at nearly half the price ;-) Also I bought much of what I own based on intuition and somehow I feel that this cable may appeal to me... ;-) Foolish, I know... ;-) But in my case, it's not whether it's the best cable for me, it's a question of whether I will like it without listening to anything else, for which I would have to pay the full price for ;-) Crazy, I know...