Hi group, I sold a pair of mint Harbeths. I shipped them in original double boxed carton with original bonnets covering them. I just received this EMAIL from the buyer. I know that many ruin these speakers trying to pry the magnetic grills off incorrectly. What is my recourse with this issue? Thanks much for your input!
This is the EMAIL I received from the buyer!
Hi. I picked up the speakers from FedEx yesterday. They arrived with some minor dents around the front top corners near the grille on both speakers. When I opened the outer box, I've noticed that one side of the inner box wasn't sealed on top and as a result the speakers came out of the top foam speaker holder. I guess the damage occurred from speakers bumping against each other. The grill cloth is also ripped near the dents. I've sent an email to Harbeth asking how much replacement grills are going to cost. I could probably live with those dents but grills might be replaced at some point. I'm still waiting on my amp to come back from service, so I have not even plugged the speakers in yet. Hopefully the drivers are ok.
From what you describe it doesn't seem possible that the damage described was done in transit. It sounds like someone tried to pry the grills off as you said. It really comes down to whether you want to take an unjustified hit to your rating or pay for something that appears to have not been your fault. I would contact Harbeth and hope they show some sympathy and help you out. They might, especially if your replacement speakers were another pair of Harbeths.
Certainly feel OP's pain here and believe he is being generous in his responses to buyer. Had similar on a deal on another forum which left a sour taste.
My experience with Paypal is that they side with buyer everytime there's a report of item 'damage' to save themselves hassle of dealing with buyer's credit card company, but an important part of this is to report supposed shipping damage to Fed Ex. They will usually send someone to view the boxes at recipient's location to determine if the damage was possibly shipping related, and if so they can help resolve it, but even if not, this is important data for further interactions with the buyer and can make some who claim shipping damage soften their stance.
Now it is still possible the buyer is being straight up and the damage did occur after you sent it but before he received it, but I'd get the shipping company's examination on this just for the record. As shipper you can initiate this and they'll contact the buyer to arrange inspection. The suggestion to send pics of corner damage to Harbeth is a good one too.
Brett From what I can gather you are a great person to do business with and I understand your wanting to make this right by offering the buyer the money for the grills.
I feel for you here as it is a tough situation and as a multiple seller both here and on eBay myself, customer satisfaction is paramount and your reputation is everything.
I think we are all in agreement from the information so far that this was buyer inflicted and you are in no way to blame for the damage.
It maybe a bitter pill but you could be right that refunding a portion to help cover grills is the best way to get out of this mess even though it is galling when you know it is not your fault.
Unfortunately been there and done that but through eBay as they really do always side with the buyer 99% of the time.
From what I have read so far I would do business with you any day sir!
Good luck and I hope the grills are not too expensive.
The last dozen sales, I take pics of how the items are packed, serial #’s, outside pics of the boxes, and a short video of the piece playing. I always send with insurance and adult signature required. I always send the pics and short videos to the buyer and he has to agree he is ok with everything. These procedures have saved me numerous times: buyer said he never received the item but I checked and the shipper had his signature, somebody tried to state the vintage piece didn’t work and he was going to do a swap with his non-working piece so when I told him I will only take it back if the serial #’s matched, he decided to keep it, and a few other instances. These all used PayPal. I’m selling a 150lb turntable now and will only sell it locally after the person hears it and pays cash. Sold a pair of 140lb Ushers that were in perfect shape with boxes and I refused to ship. The guy drove 1000 miles round trip to pick them up. Doing it this way both parties know what they are getting with no surprises.
What about the pictures you took to sell the speakers in the first place? Did you take pictures that clearly show the front of the speakers with no damage?
I would contact Fedex. The carrier contract was with you. If the speakers were signed for on pick-up, was this damage noted with Fedex? Surely he would have investigated then. Get advice from Harbeth?
Just a question for edkc1 since you have Fedex experience, if the boxes were damaged to the point of being opened would fedex document this, especially since it’s an insured item.
Not sure how far you want to take this, but if you send the pic(s) you got to Harbeth, I bet they can tell you what they think might have happened. They have seen this a few times I’m sure.
As one who worked for the USPS for nearly forty years,and yes I still have some brains left, the buyers story seems dubious to say the least. My first question to you would be were the speakers insured by FedEX for their full value. If they were and the buyer is claiming that they were damaged, it is FedEx's responsibility to pay the buyer. Therefore the buyer would be required to submit a claim with photos of the speakers and all the boxes. If the outer boxes were not damaged, the buyers story of damage by "speakers bumping against each other" or any other "damage in shipping" story holds no credibility, and FedEx would tell the buyer to take a hike. If you want to be a nice guy, which it sounds to me that you are, and if the price of the grills are reasonable, you may want to refund the buyer the difference and call it a day. However, grills are expensive, I would tell the buyer to deal with FedEx.
Have you considered, that this may be a negotiation tactic? Maybe he is hoping for a partial refund, equivalent to the cost of the grills, he would come out ahead by having you fund his mistake. He did state that he was getting a price on replacement grills and that he could “maybe”live with the damage. Just a thought, FWIW
I did and he denies it. I told him that I will give him a refund for the price of the grills. I would like to avoid having the speakers shipped back to me! I will find out tomorrow what new grills cost.
UPDATE- The seller sent me pictures and the grills are ripped and the wood is chipped on the top corners of both speakers. It looks like all the other Harbeths that I have seen when the grills were removed improperly. He is going to get a price on new grills and let me know what they will cost. It looks like he got me by the ole short hairs!
Why exactly ?
Have you subtly broached the subject that you believe he may have caused said damage by his own actions? Maybe if you let him know you suspect foul play he may back up a little?
Do you know roughly how much you are talking for new grills? If so what does that represent as a percentage of your net sale?
This problem does not appear to be caused by the buyer. More care should have been taken to prepare the boxes for shipment. However, how could an unsealed inner box cause this problem when they were double boxed and the outer box was in tact. Not sure how the corners could have gotten dented.
If it were me, I would send them back for full credit and buy them elsewhere. Why should a any buy accept a damaged product caused by shipment.
UPDATE- The seller sent me pictures and the grills are ripped and the wood is chipped on the top corners of both speakers. It looks like all the other Harbeths that I have seen when the grills were removed improperly. He is going to get a price on new grills and let me know what they will cost. It looks like he got me by the ole short hairs!
Since I manufacturer audio components, this stuff does happen. I had tubes in original boxes wrapped in bubble wrap that were placed within the audio chassis so not much room to bounce around. One tube was shattered and the other was blown (looks like the gas leaked out). $300 down the drain.The exterior box had no visible damage at all.
I doubt the buyer did all that damage but what do I know.
I’ve owned many Harbeths. The grills have to be removed correctly with a magnet. I have seen many Harbeth with ripped grills and damaged wood on the edges where the grills are.
It sounds like the buyer tried removing the grills incorrectly and wants you to pay for his stupidity!!
I was a Harbeth dealer and had a couple customers, (after being told how to remove them) still damage the grills and corner edges.
If I was a gambling man, I’d say that’s what happened...
Oh, and btw, I've done business several times with Brett, (yogiboy) and it couldn't have been better.
It just seems fishy that both speakers have the same damage.
Reminds me of when I go to x-ray some guys hands. Both hands. Broken bones. "How'd you do that?" I ask. Meaning the left one. "Punched a telephone pole." (!) "Okay," I say, "How'd you break the other one?" "Hit it again."
Some of us, however average we may be in every other way, nevertheless operate at truly exceptional levels of stupidity.
And this guy, not content to break one, goes ahead and breaks the next one the same way, to then turn around and blame it on someone else? And act like they think anyone would actually believe such an unbelievably preposterous story?
This does sound fishy as described by seller but there's one thing I don't understand. Why would he inadvertently damage one speaker grill and then move onto the second grill and damage it in the exact same way? It just seems like if the damage was his fault only one grill would be damaged.
Tough call. I've heard of people doing dumber things than that.
In Canada they will not insure anything over $1 k that was not packaged by them or opened and packaging confirmed by them ,it's the same for the UPS Stores as well as FedX here. Not sure how the USPS works as I'm not there.
As fate would have it even getting full insurance sometimes can’t save you. Because it’s much more difficult to get the postal services to pay off on damage claims. It’s not automatic, you know. They’re not giving money away. This is a case in point. The postal service can simply say, it was damaged because you didn’t pack it properly. If you had packed it properly it wouldn’t have got damaged. Make sense? There’s also a time limit of three months to settle IIRC.
I'd suggest you wait for pictures before venting your anger here as just maybe your at fault and he is being honest. we are all Human and make mistakes so before you blame the person here why not look at their evidence first and then make a judgment. If after, it seems fishy then deal with it best you can. I'm sorry for this as damaged goods can-are a pain to deal with.
This is why I always ship with full insurance on the items being shipped. This usually requires the shipper to repack or confirm packaging but that way if there is an issue there is recourse for reimbursement if damaged during shipping.
Your call of course! No idea what the cost of a pair of grilles are for these speakers, if a small % of value of the sale then yes it might be worth it. Or maybe offer half the cost of the grills?
I guess you need wait and see how they respond first to your pictures request and what their general tone and attitude is and take it from there.
It is likely a no win situation right now, I assume he paid by PayPal and he could always fall back on that to make a claim too.
Sometimes it really sucks selling ANYTHING online nowadays, way to many unscrupulous people around.
Looks like right now, you either bluff it out with them and refuse to pay anything and see what happens, might get your feedback dinged but might not pay out anything. Or you end up paying return shipping and have now a pair of damaged speakers, double dent financially there. Or you agree and pay for new grills, still a financial dent.
I would go with option A right now in your situation.
His whole story makes no sense. If the outside box was damaged then I would buy it. The inner box fit tight with no movement. They where both original boxes that the speakers came in.
Even if ONE SIDE opened up somehow, how could the speakers still bump against each other (as the other side was still closed)? The story doesn’t hold water, whereas the grills idea is entirely plausible. Also, if there is no outside damage to the box (and he picked up from Fedex without any objection), then if the inner boxes are contained tightly within the outer, how could they move around at all?
He claims both speakers are damaged. I am waiting for him to send me pictures of the damage. He wants to get a price on new grills. I just don't buy his story. I buy and sell on audiogon and have never had a problem like this. My feedback is flawless!
Ouch! Tough call here, probably good job it is not eBay as they unfortunately side with the buyer no matter what. Unless they have a very poor track record already and you are a mega seller. Be interesting to see the photos. Always sad when damage occurs either accidental or deliberate.
Not always a sure sign that they caused the damage just because it has been two days though, I work away a lot and the wife might sign for my gear but it might be a week before I get home and physically open, inspect and test the gear.
Hopefully you can resolve this with the buyer amicably. I assume they had good feedback on here prior to this event?
Uh, I’m aware people often remove grills. Maybe a photo would reveal of the speakers knocked together during shipment, which actually doesn’t make sense if only one box was open or became open somehow during shipping. How? If the grills were pried off I imagine that would show in the photo. Did he pry off both grills?
I included a magnet puller to remove the grills. I guess he could not figure out how to use it. He had the speakers for two days before contacting me with the problem. It just seems fishy that both speakers have the same damage. I am still waiting for him to get back to me with pictures of the damage!
I’ve owned many Harbeths. The grills have to be removed correctly with a magnet. I have seen many Harbeth with ripped grills and damaged wood on the edges where the grills are. It sounds like the buyer tried removing the grills incorrectly and wants you to pay for his stupidity!!
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