The phone numbers already been disconnected. I guess you got to call Bose.
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True. Who doesnt wish they kept the Porsche speedster. My stuff is about as low end as you can go and still call it authentic. I’m just disappointed that my rack dreams might change.. I guess since research is part of all this I should take it as an open door. But definitely feel like the summit isn’t in sight anymore |
Hello @telemarcer, "Is there anything more representative of a status symbol other than Rolex?" Blue Meters :) |
Food for thought. Some audiophiles snub their nose at McIntosh gear. Some call it the poor man’s HiFi. So for some McIntosh is the equivalent to Bose in the high fidelity world. In these cases, who is the audio snob? One who calls Bose unworthy of being audiophile quality or the one who calls McIntosh unworthy of being called audiophile quality? It’s all relative. BTW the Bose 901 was an iconic speaker in the high fidelity world back in the 70’s and 80’s. |
In 1977 Harman accepted an appointment in the Carter administration as Under Secretary of the United States Department of Commerce. Then US law required appointees to have no direct business interests in day-to-day activities. When Harman took office in 1976, he sold his company to conglomerate Beatrice Foods for $100 million[21] to avoid a conflict of interest. Beatrice promptly sold many portions of the company, including the original Harman Kardon division, and by 1980 only 60% of the original company remained. Bet you didn't know that! Yes, Harmon Kardon. How weird.
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It will be interesting to see how Bose impacts what Mc and Sonos are currently doing. Did they buy them for the brand name and brand recognition or to help them grow and be more profitable doing what they do. Time will tell. Consolidation in business is inevitable because if you’re publicly held or want to cash in there’s always a bigger company with money to invest. I have Bose headphones, Bluetooth speakers and an old desktop radio and CD player. They do what they do very well. I don’t have a Mc but have always wanted a pair of blue meters. Looking forward to what comes next from both companies. |
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Today's McIntosh is not your father's McIntosh as Mc quality has slipped steadily starting with the demise of the storied "Mac Clinics". Heck, they still use the legendary Grateful Dead "wall of sound" from the '70s as a marketing gimmick and have turned to sticking blue meters (that break) on every product they build as a substitute for quality. Let's hope that deep pocketed Bose intends to restore McIntosh to its former glory. |
I have to reluctantly agree. The sound quality hasn’t qualified as high end for quite some time. These days the likes of Rotel/NAD/Cambridge products perform better to my ears, not to mention various “Chi Fi” brands.
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50 years ago (early/mid 70s), Marantz was bought by Superscope and the response among audiophiles at that time was much the same as what we're seeing here. Now, the classic Marantz gear from that era is selling like hotcakes, with receivers like the 2270/2275 going for big bucks. So the fear that your Mac gear may suddenly drop in value could be valid in the short term, but in the long term quality remains appreciated. |
Sad day for McIntosh. Even if Bose intends to allow McIntosh to retain their current quality and reputation as an audiophile company, my experience in situations such as this is that the culture of the parent company cannot help but infect the one being acquired. I really believe from here on out, McIntosh equipment will be sold as pre-Bose and post-Bose. |
After my initial horror, I came to the conclusion it may be better for McIntosh, Sonus Faber and Sumiko to be under Bose's ownership than some vulture capital firm from Dallas. At least Bose is in the audio field. Personally, I think McIntosh has become almost as gimmicky as Bose, what with the green lights under the rubes and everything having a blue meter of some sort, even when it's superfluous. And I am concerned about the great number of dealers added, including online retailers such as Crutchfield. Not that Crutchfield isn't good. But part of the McIntosh experience was going to the one store in your area that was a Mac dealer and having the full experience. |
I wouldn’t worry about McIntosh. Bose might trim off the waste. McIntosh’s main strengths are in electronics although they make every kind of component. Are their turntables competitive against the other high-end TT makers? They "make" phono cartridges that are badge engineered Sumikos. They make headphones. How many do they actually sell? They make large speakers, but are typical McIntosh electronics buyers also buying speakers under the brand? Are McIntosh rack-mount solid state amps for whole-house audio selling well against competitors? How many buyers of McIntosh gear buy everything possible from the brand? How many buyers of the brand are first-time McIntosh buyers and what do they typically buy and what do they typically own? I would guess new McIntosh buyers might come from Denon, Yamaha or Marantz, upper mid-market brands. (Back in the day, Bose also occupied that space, with speakers, the 401s/501s/601s and 901s, and support electronics, when Klipsch made only what is now their Heritage line.)
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wouldn’t worry about McIntosh. Bose might trim off the waste. McIntosh’s main strengths are in electronics although they make every kind of component. Are their turntables competitive against the other high-end TT makers? They "make" phono cartridges that are badge engineered Sumikos. Great point. I really enjoy McIntosh but don’t really care about their speakers and Turntables or Cartridges. BTW I don’t care about the colors on the amps just the sound. Looking forward to the future of Mac and SF My second set up is a MC6700 and SF Sonus Faber Sonetto II Both purchased locally and at a fraction of the original cost. |
The blue meters are distinctive, but only mean anything to a small number of audiophile owners. Still, they set McIntosh apart and probably should be left alone, or at least kept where a Vu meter is expected and appropriate. Signature design features do matter, a lot. Meters are expected in high-end amps. Technics, now in its super-premium revival makes great efforts to place them on its $16k TOTL products. VAC does the same, even more elaborately. Sure, it is theater, but necessary theater. |
I too have some industry insider info regarding the purchase of McIntosh- it was primarily a play for car audio and especially focusing on noise reduction in vehicles to eliminate most ambient engine or road noise. Bose engineered an electromagnetic car suspension system and sold it off a few years ago to an active suspension company, so they are always thinking about that sector. I think we might expect to see an expansion of the Mc name for OEM auto head unit partnerships (beyond Wagoneer), since the Bose name in car audio has taken a hit in recent years. But I do not expect any major changes in core Mc home audio equipment EXCEPT an infusion of cash that should positively impact engineering of Mc home audio. I surmise that the SF purchase was due to a cash-flush company that saw higher than normal gross margins, just like Bose, and a premium speaker company that might somehow improve Bose's portfolio and perception with high end audiophiles. They cannot say that for their own brand. I agree with many of the posters that Bose does not need to dismantle or negatively impact either company - the strategy does not appear to be a race to the bottom for parts or quality savings. You may not be aware that Bose is owned by Massachusetts Institute of Technology - donated entirely by Amar Bose upon his death. MIT's endowment fund exceeds $23.5 Billion. |
I’ve not been a fan of Mc, so my feelings about it are meh. I will tell you, I was gifted a pair of Bose ultra in ear Nc headphones and was blown away by them. I do a lot of shop things that involve power tool. Seriously good and sound quality while not true audiophiles is amazing. I’ve never been a fan of Bose anything, but here I am, I like my little headphones. As long as Bose doesn’t offshore the brands to china, (heck are they already made in china?) and leaves or retains the engineers who design the pre Bose mc stuff, all is not lost. |
Bose is certainly innovative outside the small audiophile space. Their automotive system brand is well-placed in the mass market, which isn't a bad place to be. They have made a significant bid in the consumer home audio market against Sonos. Their personal audio and industrial audio (professional noise cancellation systems) are solid. Getting a brand that is welcome in the high-end vehicle market in places where Bose doesn't have the cachet makes sense. |
It's inevitable that companies like McIntosh that produce equipment that lasts decades isn't a profitable business model. It wouldn't surprise me if for every 10 McIntosh sales transactions 8-9 don't represent any revenue to McIntosh as they're likely sales of pre-owned McIntosh equipment between private parties. |
It’s a business. I own some of their stuff and truthfully I'm indifferent about the whole fanfare. As long as someone out there can answer question if I have a problem otherwise I just don't care. An excuse to buy other amplifiers and maybe I might be happier. Truthfully I think they make them so damn heavy because they want you to keep them. It's a pain in the ass upgrading an amplifier. |
If Bose wanted to place a marker solidly in the high end North American audio market, McIntosh and Sonus Faber would be a very solid start. Both brands are well respected and enjoy good shares of their (admittedly) small market. Neither need help as concerns visibility and both have loyal customer bases. Other similarly-placed companies are already owned by other conglomerates. Appreciated micro brands are too esoteric to be worth the trouble and most have no significant presence or product lines that are too small. McIntosh has long experience in the electronics space with every kind of design, monoblock tubes to class-D, HT, network, every kind of playback technology except perhaps RTR. They weren't independent under PE. |
https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2742926
It’s potentially much worse based on how the aquiring company focuses its business. They specifically highlight the potential in the auto biz..ugh. Can you imagine ANY true high end biz spending time selling product in the WORST audio environ like a car? Please..it’s a name grab in a high volume segment. There is NOTHING about this that rings positive for the high end. This is going to be akin to Fender selling to CBS in the 60’s. People will pay more for stuff prior to to the Bose acquisition. Bose is NOT a high end brand and will NOT understand the business model.
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There's a recent trend for high end audio companies to add car audio systems to their portfolio. JBL & Altec have been offering high end car stereos for over a decade. Lexus offers Mark Levinson, Jeep offers McIntosh, Volvo offers B&W, Chevy offers Bose, Audi offers Bang & Olufsen and Mercedez offers Burmester system. This is an interesting way to introduce various brands in high quantities. |
BOSE they cannot get any good reputation,nor + press or even acceptance among audiophiles by actually producing good great products fr their own creations, workers, engineers so can use the vast $$$$ estate Mr Bose left to buy quasi legitimacy by purchasing legit audio legends ! Bose alegedly has bought audio legend Mcintosh ! and Sonus Faber ! bose is S#$% ! Jack Dale Ferrari F430 owners Admin ·Has anyone improved, modded their F430 spider / coupe sound system ? i consulted w/a audio specialist shop he said maybe different head unit as the becker is weird ( keep it for future owners ) but otherwise just put in some better speakers ! ( mine has the silly big $ option BOSE "upgrade audio " extra speakers , amp , sub etc Bose® high power sound system (Modis Code: SNDB) Available for both the F430 and F430 Spider, Bose® and Ferrari have developed a brand-new, high-power sound system. This system incorporates a new technology called FortaTM. It also includes the AudioPilotTM system, which is found on the 612 Scaglietti and the 599GTB Fiorano. Bose® technicians developed special equalization tuning for both the F430 and the F430 Spider. This system is composed of 11 strategically placed loudspeakers and includes:   A bass enclosure with a special amplifier, including 1 active woofer & 2 small passive elements. It is located under the climate control panel, linked to the center tunnel 2 tweeters, embedded in the mirror triangles 2 woofers at the bottom of the door panels 4 twiddlersTM at the top of the rear wall One 8-way amplifier with digital signal processing, located on the rear bench" Can’t believe that Ferrari could install such a poor set of equipment especially with the cost of the upgrade to the Bose set up. BOSE stands for "Buy Other Sound Equipment " LOL so better speakers and and ......................DONE. sadly i have a exotic car w/ a BOSE system I am 4th owner i did not choose it ) and their typical level of nonexistent consumer assistance was illustrated by them just telling me to "contact my dealer " ( whom promptly advised I contact Bose as they were profoundly sorry they ever let BOSE do a system for them ( and NEVER will again! )!!!!! It is gawd awfull and sounds like crap ! poorly engineered , a insult to automotive sound systems ALL the owners of this VERY expensive system i have spoken to HATE IT ! AS do I! https://youtu.be/Ox2qi3z9KpE?si=aJ-MBX6KTOr34D2V https://youtu.be/CsudoeibXoY?si=UlUkK4cdHrn7PaUL PS this guy Jay’s Audio Lab is regarded as&^&*% By many !he is an insufferable boor! catch his video about high-end cables his panel could not tell difference in a blind test and he dismissed them saying " they needed to let the cables bed in w/ some hours of listening " ! LOL OK so he never repeated the test after doing that ! https://youtu.be/oQUnpXRyGLQ?si=VDS41-ndvGI_hYVw https://youtu.be/J5XVLBDyzNc?si=qN6MgNN6Dcezgst Group rules that were violated 1 Complete group rules... ...are posted in the "About" and "Files" sections, and the group description. By joining the group, you agree to read and follow them. See less 2 Respect for brands the saying “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure” is an operating principle. It’s OK to discuss shortcomings, performance and reliability issues. It is not OK to denigrate or bash a brand. See less Additional notes from the admins"Bose is S%^&" Not something that goes in this group for ANY brand. |
@musicearlyadopter If I recall correctly, the shares Amar Bose donated to MIT were non-voting shares. While they make up the majority of the market cap of the company, MIT does not have a controlling interest. I have fond memories of taking Prof. Bose’s acoustics class in 1980. He was emphatic about the need to measure not the physical properties of sound systems, but rather the listener’s response (including psychoacoustics). I took his class right around the time that he was forming, and demonstrating, the ideas that would later become the Acoustimass system -- a hidden subwoofer at frequencies where location cues are mostly absent, and small satellite speakers that provided directional information in the higher frequencies. Much can be said about the directions that Bose Corporation took after Prof. Bose passed away, but I will remember him as infinitely curious, highly creative, and an excellent teacher. |
Thanks for this interesting post. Especially this line for me which said a lot about the reviewers ignorance of acoustic and their blind reliance on the gear "measured" numbers specs. The gear in my experience matter for sure (synergy and tech design ) but way less than acoustics ( including psychoacoustics) .
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At first, I was horrified but with a bit of thought, I don't really believe much will change. I believe Bose will leave McIntosh, Sonus Faber and Sumiko pretty much alone unless something drastic occurs. I do think you'll see the McIntosh name and blue meters and Sonus Faber logos plastered on more vehicle sound systems. McIntosh has managed to keep most of its mystique despite several owners and thee addition of many new dealers (including online retailers). |
Bose has every incentive to keep McIntosh and Sonus Faber intact, as "halo" consumer brands that command high prices from a loyal owner community. As long as the image is remains good, the two upmarket brands can be also be licensed for car stereos (regardless of who actually designs and builds them). I would not be surprised if we see a McIntosh-branded soundbar a year or two from now, selling at upmarket prices. |
