I upgraded my CD player and the sound I am getting from Paradigm Studio 20 speakers is truly amazing! The sound is liquid and transparent magic...I never heard them sound so good. In fact, I find myself not listening to music but to the sound of speakers, if you know what I mean. Audiophiles should be able to relate to this...
I am starting to believe the company's bold statement about Paradigm shift speakers with in the price range - haha
Another speaker I am in love with is Martin Logan Motion 35XT with exotic tweeter that has pleasant transparent magic...The sound is as a whole is also liquid so Hifi-ish. Try to hear them and most likely you too will agree that they are so good that you keep hearing speakers rather than concentrating on music, and they are way below $1000! I think they are a bargain in Hifi world these days.
I hope readers of Audiogon will agree with my take on the 2 speakers and enjoy good quality for a few hundred $.
Seems to make sense - we are all in this for the reproduction of music as many have eloquently pointed out...if I can only ignore the magical sound of my gears for now that surpass live music making - and I am a classically trained musician with the sounds of Steinway Pianos and Strad Violins and Cellos in my ears memory...I prefer the liquid and transparent sound of my system better.
Thank you for all the posters - was fun and enlightening...
@gongli3 Understand what you mean. Even though it’s the whole of the system, it’s set up and the room, that determines the sound and stage - it is the speakers that delivers the magic. Good speakers, properly set up, let us know how well, or not, everything else is working. Bad speakers - not so much.
I do a lot of listening in the evenings or early mornings, with only a dim back light. Most always, I get caught up in the music and the performance, with little thought given to the system or speakers. On occasion though, I become aware that the little Maggies are still there, calling almost no attention to themselves. I then appreciate that disappearing, leaving only a large well rendered stage and compelling performance, is what they do so well. I realize that there are many well thought systems and speakers, at all price levels, that can, when properly set up, provide a wonderful and engaging performance.
We, as audiophiles, will always arrange, tweak and change what we have, but lets not forget, on occasion, to appreciate where we’re at on this audio journey and take some time to just enjoy the music...Jim
I stand by what I said. If you are listening to speakers instead of listening to the music, you are indeed doing it wrong. Oz
You can be as self righteous as you want, hidden behind the safety of your computer screen.
Not really quite sure how people on this site can judge others. That point baffles me. Didn't think that was the purpose of the forum.
Gongli3; I've been listening to a speaker upgrade, then new interconnects, new Dac/power supply, new power cables, new fuses, and a myriad of tweaks. Still have a couple more to add. I will listen to all of them together. And what it does to my music.
Maybe once it settles, I will then listen to the music...
Gongli3, in regards to connecting a DAC via the optical on your TV, doubtful. Most optical on TV’s are an input, and do not output sound. You may want to look for a DAC that has a HDMI input that can connect the DAC and TV as an input/output connection. And that would take some thought as well, as now all the sound coming out of your TV would, in all likelihood, be transmitted as 2 channel only. I’m no AV expert, so perhaps someone else could clarify. Bottom line, all sound from my TV is transmitted via HDMI, but I never listen to music via an HDMI input/output; the lone exception is when listening/watching the Berlin Philharmonic live or pre-recorded which I have a subscription to.
I can tell you for certain that whenever I listen to any streaming service via the HDMI from the TV (if I’m being lazy or just checking something out) it’s sounds terrible vs streaming directly through my DAC and connected to my system via RCA stereo inputs. For serious listening I never stream from my TV, or CD player for that matter (which also has that capability). Perhaps a DAC/streamer would be the obvious choice.
I think what made this hobby(industry) great is the shape (or shades) to approach to a sensation. I like to think of it a triangle, with different hobbyist like to push (approach) to a certain corner (direction) May it be in the sharpestest and cleanest notation digitally, or fattest and warmest reel to reel or lps, or thirdly, realism, like you were there with the music. In that triangle money change hands. Opinions going back and forth. Adding no two ears are the same now there are millions of combination. There is no right or wrong, just the direction you you want to go, or you wives(partners) allows you, or the monies to support you. Happy listening.....you will hear more when you are in a wonderful mood.
It's great doing something upstream, or adjusting speaker position, or taking care of room acoustics and have our system sound so much better.An audiophile friend told me many years ago... "the speakers just produces the sound of the signal that they receive". I deduced then that I can make changes upstream to improve the sound of my speakers. So after upgrading all my cords... I'm just tweeking now, as the cost to benefit is great. Some recent tweeks and adjustments that have produced magnificent results: I got a narrower acoustic panel to fit a narrow spot behind me... dampening material on case cover of CD player, SR blue fuse in CD power supply, CD mat, and speaker tow in 1/4". My system sounded amazing before.... I am still absolutely amazed how much more incredible it sounds now... and there's still a few tweeks up my sleeve ; )
Sometime ago we painted the house. My father in law walks in and comments “you painted that wall the wrong colour”. For some it’s about the music. Some are purely gear heads some are in it for both. I promote music in my community and host concerts, host a vinyl night in a local cafe and help young musicians get there name out. I go home and am constantly tweaking and evaluating my system. Of course the goal is enjoying the music. Paint it what ever colour you want as long as it puts a grin on your face.
Mista_P5, I will audition more real hifi speakers as you suggested when funds become available - you say that the sound will open up more - can't wait. You have me all excited about enjoying listening even more...
I started with the 20s a long time ago and remember feeling the way you do. It was awesome and I have changed gear many, many times since then. It is a fantastic hobby/pastime and watching movies/listening to music is very enjoyable. It gets better as your equipment does, enjoy!!
My electronics are 30 years old, except for the CD player, and my speakers 20. I still have my 38 year old B&W's, but I rarely listen to them. I do listen to music. Doing it wrong means to nerd out and only listen to the equipment, rather than music. At first, the disease is inevitable, but good music the cure.
Just a guess that the OP is not a native English speaker and if that’s the case then cut him some slack on his wording. We basically know what he meant which is something like I was blown away by the cost/performance of these two speakers and all I could hear was beautiful music coming from them. But this brings up what is so problematic about using words to discuss a musical experience. It will always be flawed in that one person’s point of view and language will always be slightly different then the next. Take for example the latest discussion, listening to equipment vs listening to music. We all know that we listen to sound and sound only so how do we describe isolating components or particulars of sound itself. An amp on its own can’t create sound and so on to all of the broken up components involved in sound recreation. We are all attempting in our own way to use our language skills to describe something that doesn’t even require language. There are no instructions to listening. You are either listening or you aren’t. If you are using words you are using them as a separate function of your mind but we all want and are trying to say something about what we are experiencing. So why not just allow everyone to struggle in their own imperfect way to do something that is in itself a creative act separate from the music.
I have paired them with a few amps - Outlaw, Onkyo Integra M-504 power amp with NAD pre, Quad 405-2 with it's pre.
I have $16,000 speakers as main, and was still blown away by the detail and pleasant transparency of tweeter, as well as hint of liquid sound of upscale piece...
As many have pointed out, I do enjoy music more when I am also listening to hifi system - it's magic to me. Perhaps I phrased it wrong when I said I don't listen to music but speakers...sorry about that.
Someone asked me about the CD player - it's actually an upscale Sony ES DVD/SACD changer NC555ES. I was streaming Amazon Music through my TV on an Outlaw receiver - the sound was nothing to write home about...I heard that Amazon is adding hi-resolution streaming upgrade - then it might be better. Can I add a DAC to through optical or HDMI out from TV to get better sound? Please enlighten me on this one, because I love streaming!
When I added the Sony DVD/SACD player, the improvement was dramatic! I was so happy with what my speakers were capable of, so I found my self just enjoying the sound of my system...
I have a nice turntable and SACD is very close to it's sound in detail...I am a believer in SACD and high resolution music files now.
Thanks for asking and Happy thanksgiving everyone - happy listening to all...
Well hopefully you like and enjoy the music as well as the performance of your speakers. I will say when you actually hear a real high end set of speakers you will be amazed how much more livley and open the sound can be !!! I know the paradigm line and it is very good some of it I would recommend over bnws in the same price range but still fairly restricted in comparison to super high end stuff. What kind of equipment are you using for amplification ?
When I get an oil change in my 12 year old car, for about 5-10 minutes after the engine seems to sound and feel like new then reality sets back in. It's a 12 year old car with 150k+ miles. Tricks of the mind.
I read these comments regularly but have only posted a few times. As a 50 year audio geek working in the industry, I have spent plenty of time focusing on the reproduction at the expense of simply enjoying the music. But there are those occasions when the music takes me to a rapturous place. Now at 68 my hearing is in decline and the nuances of audiophile discernment are outside my grasp. You’d think I would relax and just enjoy the music now, but not so. The habits of 50 years are hard to kick. Bravo to those who find the rapture!
It’s clear, many here are audio nervosa afflicted. Instead of simply letting the music take you away from this challenging time we live in, we listen to hear the faults of a recording and our system.
>>>
I find myself not listening to music but to the sound of speakers, if you know what I mean.<<<
I know exactly what you mean. I've been an audiophile for fifty years and have heard this statement countless times. The concept is deeply rooted in the audiophile world. I'm surprised others in this forum are not familiar with it. The most obvious symptom is skipping around your music collection listening to 30-60 second clips that sound great on your system instead of waiting for the whole song or album to play.
One of the funnest parts of being an audiophile is starting with your parent's cheap audio equipment and hearing additional sounds/music/nuances in the system as the system evolved. In 30 years I went from my dad's Pioneer speakers (in diy cabinets) and reel to reel to Soundlab and Audio Research equipment. I still remember installing a pair of Velodyne subs and listening to the Beatles. All of a sudden I realized they have a bass player...that guy is pretty good.;)
Even though I prefer horns and large woofers for my music system, I also like the sound and value of Paradigm.
I use a pair of these Paradigm Cinema 70's for my rear surround speakers in my small home theater. Laid on their backs, behind the corners of the sofa, shooting up, using the space between the sofa and wall just behind like a horn. Balanced with mic and test tones from my center spot!
They sound better than any other model I have tried for rears in my situation.
You purposely over-stated the case of listening to the speakers, of course you enjoy the music. Every time I listen to music, I fall in love with my speakers again. Never stops.
Gongli3 I heard the ML 35XT's demo'd on the speaker taps of a Mcintosh MHA150 and they sounded quite nice. I used to go the uber expensive route but these days I get more enjoyment finding the 1-2K$ equipment that punches way above it's class. Enjoy your system however you like and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
Miller It really is about time you turned down the attitude from 11 don't you think? The OP is happy doing what we all should be, enjoying the music. Happy Thanksgiving to all
Upgrading equipment is always exciting. I recently upgraded my cartridge and it sounds like I bought a new system. Audio equipment is like a vehicle, a Ford and a Bentley are very different, but it's still fun to get out and drive. Enjoy the drive.
Heart felt thanks to all those encouraging words about enjoying the upgrade! For every discouraging persons I meet, there are many who are social oriented and truly caring about other peoples feelings...Keeps me have faith in humanity...
About 30 years ago I knew a high powered attorney in Beverly Hills. A real white shoes lawyer, politically well-connected. He had a vintage 50s Rolls Royce that he loved but seldom drove. This car had the most sumptuous leather seats you could imagine.
One night I was driving down Santa Monica Bl. in Beverly Hills when I saw his Rolls. He noticed me at a stop light and pulled over so we could chat. I got our of my car and walked over to the driver's door (right hand drive) and he was sitting in the car buck ass naked, apparently unashamed. When I asked him why he was naked he told me that the seats felt best that way.
It's great to read people's excitement about gear upgrades! Awesome, and I wish you much enjoyment.
I too have excitement for my new gear. I find especially just after trying something new, that I am listening to the system more so than the music, and know exactly what the OP means.
Recently finished a set of LXmini's, and am enjoying them very much - and find myself listening to the speakers more than the music. Once that wears off, the music will become the focus again.
Upgrade, listen to the system, listen to the music - repeat...
I think most of us get excited when trying something new that makes a much bigger positive difference than was expected.I remember a few times thinking that this new -fill in the blank - sounds incredible!Then I become acclimated and it's all about the tunes again.
Music and equipment are one intertwined combination - one cannot exist without the other. It's inevitable that one listens to both music and equipment at the same time, simultaneously. The phrase such as "listen only to the music and not the equipment" is basically playing with semantics.
Enjoy your music bud. I've personally listend to the Martin Logangs 35xts and really like them. I think moat Highend speakers are good in their own way. They each embrace a different character. I am blessed to own 2 pairs and I am able to to switch back and forth depending on the type of music Im playing. Its all about enjoyment.
There is no need to spend tens of thousands to get good sound. For those who can afford it, bon appetit.-Kodiak
I could not agree more. I scrounged up a pair of used Maggie 1.7, a Used Odyssey Amp, and a nice Dac and am still rendered speechless by the sound. Often I will cut off all the lights at night and simply get lost. It never gets old. Good On ya OP, Slainte.
I'm glad you are enjoying your Paradigm 20's Pretty sure I had a pair back in the 90's with the Paradigm Servo 15 Sub and for the price they empressed me and a lot of my friends
Obviously, you like music (as I do). That’s why we have these magnificent systems. Discovering how we can make music sound better to us is part of this wonderful hobby. Changing stereo components and observing the differences is always an exciting event which can last days, weeks, ... Enjoy every minute!
Enjoy my friend. I too listen to my speakers. I prefer to build my own. I critique them, then change what I don’t like. When I finally get them where they sound smooth, airy in the vocals, cymbals present without stress, kick and toms are in the room when they should be, and bass where I can here the strings but not the cabinet... Then I enjoy the music. I’m far from an equipment snob.
There is no need to spend tens of thousands to get good sound. For those who can afford it, bon appetit.
Select-hifi - I concur that the post wasn't presented in a tactful way, nor helpful, in that, an explanation wasn't provided.
I believe what was meant by "you are doing it wrong", was in response to the original post where gongli3 stated "I find myself not listening to music but to the sound of speakers, if you know what I mean".
As others have stated, gongli3 is experiencing something new from his speakers, which he hasn't experienced previously. However, the pursuit of HiFi is, in fact, to let the music shine through, and the equipment (including the speakers) disappear.
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