Better Integrated Amp?
You really should list your speakers and what type of music you play, but honestly, shopping in the $600 price range doesn’t leave you much room. The Denon integrated has been well reviewed, so maybe that’s your best option. There’s nothing wrong with the less expensive integrateds. I have an Onkyo A-9150 that was about $500 that is very nice and includes a phono stage and a DAC which is not horrible. Buy what you can afford and listen to some music. We all need to start someplace. All this said - sometimes we set a price point in our heads that is just not realistic. If you really don’t have the money that’s one thing, but sometimes we just get an idea of what we think we want to spend and it takes some time to get over the sticker shock of what the stuff we want actually costs. It’s all part of the process. |
Set up wise the turntable is a pro-ject debut carbon evo but I have not got a speaker yet, I thought i would try and figure out what amp to get before figuring out what speaker to pair it with. Budget wise I'm in the UK and i can get the Denon for £350 which seemed reasonable for how its reviews look, the Vena is £700 but is more like £450 second hand. So thats a rough idea of my price range wouldnt want to go any higher than that unless I really have to. This is also my first set up so I can always upgrade parts later down the line. Music will mostly be Indie/Rock/Metal but a bit of other stuff as well, the room isn't massive so it wont need to be incredibly loud. Say this is my first set up so I'm learning a lot here thanks |
At your experience level the Denon would be a good place to start and having a new piece of gear with a warranty would let you focus on other parts of the system. Even the less expensive Denon 600E might be an excellent option since it has built-in Bluetooth that would let you easily sample new music using Spotify or another streaming service and its lower price would leave you more to spend on speakers which, in my opinion, would have more of a positive impact on the quality of reproduction. |
You should check out Rega integrated amps. You should have no problem finding a dealer on your side of the pond! https://www.rega.co.uk/products/amplifiers |
I agree with sfar in that it would probably be a good idea to buy the Denon from a dealer who could possibly guide you towards some appropriate speakers and whatever else you need. Just be realistic. You say you prefer rock/metal that is often difficult to reproduce at even moderate volumes as opposed to string quartets and the like. Maybe a nice pair of headphones? I bet the Denon has a half decent headphone jack. |
This UK based channel has some good advice. Here's one video but take a look at his others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EAJPpVvrpw&ab_channel=ABritishAudiophile |
I can highly recommend the $599 (US) Rega Io integrated amp. The sound quality is amazing for the money. IMHO it sounds much better than the Rega Brio that I compared it to. It only puts out 30 watts per channel so you will need to match it to appropriate speakers. I am using it with a pair of Tannoy Mercury M1's in my bedroom system but will be upgrading to the Vandersteen Wood VLR's when I can. My dealer shows it with Proac and Vandersteen speakers and the combination with the VLR's, even the $3K VLR CT's, is really good. The unit also has a good phono stage and sounded great with the Rega P3 with an Ortofon 2M Bronze cartridge. You should check it out. Good Luck! |
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There really hasn’t been any major advancements in technology in the past 50 years that would make me think that whatever integrated you choose will become obsolete. You could hook up a vintage tube integrated to a streaming dac and be right up to date with modern systems. It’s really only the digital front end parts that are changing. A well built integrated can also last indefinitely with minimal service. It’s well worth either stretching your budget, or do what many of us here do and buy/sell/trade equipment as we go. It’s part of the fun. For that reason I’d recommend looking in the used market. Read reviews and check out brands like Arcam, Creek, Cyrus, Linn, Nad, Naim, Musical Fidelity, Quad, Rega, Roksan etc, all should be easy to find 2nd hand locally. Skip the Denon. It’s a good starter brand (the second amp I bought was a Denon) but many of those others I mentioned previously will get you closer to that high end sound. |
Look closer at that Rega Io. Smaller form factor. Newer discrete AB topology. Award winning SQ. Lifetime warranty. A perfect start and you will probably have it forever in secondary systems. I still use my starter integrated from 1970. Just head towards reasonably flat impedance 8 ohm speakers as Rega states it runs hot (°) into 4 ohms. Unless you LIKE electric heat. I would pick it up for $430 new. But that’s just me. |
A lot of you seem to agree that the Rega Io is a really good option so I'm having a look into that now. Its power output seems much lower than others at 30W at 8ohms, I'm guessing this isnt an issue given how popular it seems to be, its a similar price to the others so that is good. It seems to have a few less features then the denon but im assuming you sacrifice that for sound quality and performance which is more important. If I were to go with the Rega anyone got any good speaker recommendations? I would like to go to some shops and listen but with Covid I dont think thats happening anytime soon. |
For speakers to match with the Rega, you might want to look at something like the Triangle BR03. It has 90db sensitivity and a 8 ohm nominal impedance. Should be pretty easy to drive and it has received great reviews as a budget friendly bookshelf size 2 way speaker. I do not own the BR03 and have not heard it. But I did previously own the Triangle Titus speaker which had similar specs. I enjoyed then quite a bit. |
Audiogon has a couple of NAD amps in this price range I'd recommend. This on in particular: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa5fhb-nad-c-328-hybrid-digital-dac-integrated-amplifier-solid-s... The unusual hybrid Class D amplifier does not get enough credit and sounds far better to my ears than a lot of others. If you can swing $800 I'd also recommend a listed Arcam. Best, Erik |
You didn't state a budget for speakers but I like the Vandersteen VLR Wood ($1495 USD). I have also heard it with the Proac D2 and Tablette's and both sounded really good. Being in the UK they might be easier to demo. The best sound I heard with it was the Vandersteen VLR CT but it's a bit pricey at $3100 US. If you have a local Rega dealer I would suggest that you go have a listen and see what the dealer recommends. I am currently using it with Tannoy M1 bookshelf speakers. They are small and I have had them for 16 years. Maybe some current Tannoy's would be a good fit. Good Luck! |
This Yamaha A-S501 is worth looking into. It has all the features that you will ever need! https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/a-s501/index.html |
I thought i would try and figure out what amp to get before figuring out what speaker to pair it with.Why would you think that? I’d highly recommend you figure out speakers first. Case in point — the Quad only puts out 45Wpc, which will limit your speaker choices quite a bit. Just my 2 pence FWIW, and best of luck. |
Mikem: I agree with the importance volume control is. Names withheld, but I've had amps where the volume on the remote won't move when you hit the +, then goes up fast. Another problem is to see the volume knob if it only has a small white dot on it. Recently bought a Hegel H390. The display numbers of the level are clear without glasses at 8' back, and I need them over 6'. |
I would highly recommend the PS Audio Sprout. My secondary system used the original Sprout (it has been updated to the Sprout 100 with 100w through 4 ohms and the convenience of a remote control) and the Q Acoustics 3050 floor standing speakers and the sound was excellent and a true “budget” system. I used a Music Hall Turntable with an Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge and they all paired well. The Sprout 100 retails new for $699 but I have seen them used for about $500 or so. The sprout also has Bluetooth built in as well. I also have the Denon PMA-600NE for my office system driving Gallo Acoustics bookshelf speakers and it is quite good as well— however the PS Audio is much better (and more expensive new). |
The marantz pm5005 is an excellent all analog affordable integrated amplifier. Way better than the Denon. $499 I believe is the going price, although you may if lucky get it on sale. It is a very well made and thought out amp. No built in dac, no digital anything and it sounds wonderful. Here is a great review of it and the matching cd5005 cd player, which I also recommend very highly. I’ve owned both, but then graduated to a higher tier. Pair these with the wharfedale diamond 220’s and I think you will be very happy. Link posted for the diamond 220’s as well below. Alternatively, the Dali Zensor 1 would match up well. You will have a killer starter system guaranteed! All this for a tic over a grand! What wonderful times to be into hifi.... https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/marantz-5005-series-integrated-amp-cd-player https://www.whathifi.com/us/wharfedale/diamond-220/review https://www.whathifi.com/us/dali/zensor-1/review |
Rega Brio R is a solid integrated with a fine phono stage for a start. I call that amp “the gateway drug”. Hahaha. They can be had for reasonable price now used. I’ve heard that little amp drive harbeths, quad z2’s, Wharfdales, etc etc just fine. It’s a very pleasant sounding amp. I ran it with a grado black cartridge with 8MZ stylus with some wharfdale diamond 225’s (my first set up) and it was a very nice combination for the money at that time. Same set up now could be had for 450$ total maybe? Not sure about used UK market. Might be better for those brands actually. Good luck. |
Jbmack75, my Hegel's display is dimmable. Fast or slow push on the remote only moves 1 decibel. The remote is made of metal and is the type you don't have aim at the amp. At 66 this is my fourth amp, previous ones were in the 1 to 2 thousand range. Due to a great divorce outcome I bought myself the Hegel for $6000. I absolutely love it. (Bryston A2 speakers) |
I use a Yamaha a-s801 integrated. Silver faceplate but it comes in black too. The listed factory rating of 100 wpc in 8 ohms, 165 in 4 ohms is inaccurate. Gene DellaSalla of Audiohaulics magazine Tests proved that the numbers were really about 125 @8 ohm and about 188 @ 4 ohm. Really sharp unit in my opinion. Got it for $700.00 less than a year ago at ABT in Glenview Illinois. |
Only 30 wpc, buy speakers later? Hmmmmm That presumes you eventually buy efficient speakers, I would want more like 92 db/1w/1m. Often more efficient speakers are large, and big cabinets get expensive, as well as hard to fit. I think it is best to concentrate on what speakers will fit/perform well in your listening space, always preferring higher efficiency, and once speakers are solved, then how much power is needed? .................................. I read somewhere recently that low bass is about 65% of the work an amp has to do. I want to retrace my steps to find it again. Sooo, if you go first to a self powered sub (or two), then to your amp (after bass has been taken out of the signal), the amp will have a much easier job to do, AND, the mains will also do a better job with highs, mids, upper bass, not trying to make low bass. Thus: buying a 30wpc amp may be enough, if you get efficient mains for highs and mids, and self powered sub-woofer(s) for low bass. .......................................... However, that presumes you have a preamp out to the sub, then from sub to amp. Keep that in mind when choosing your integrated amp. |
If you can find it for the price, look for an integrated with a transformer for each channel...dual mono. Then it won’t matter so much what speaker you buy. A stepped attenuator is also a good sign. A good/dedicated preamp section is a good sign. A stand alone phono preamp is a good idea as even a $200 unit is better than most mid priced phono sections in integrated amps. |
Okay I will try and find a speaker first and then circle back to an amp which matches it well. Speakers are hard to find out about atm as we are in lockdown I cannot go into any store to listen to them so I’m only going off reviews and peoples opinions on here. Total budget wise I’m really wanting to keep it under 1,000 total, I was planning on splitting that equally between turntable, amp and speaker but maybe I should prioritise one over the others? The debut carbon evo turntable is £450 which is a lot of the budget but I was considering the Rega Planar 1 as a cheaper alternative £250, (or the Rega Planar 1+ which has built in Phono preamp and then finding an expensive pair of active speakers but I’ve been told to stick to Passive if possible). Pretty much all of the amps recommended come in around the £350 mark which is about right if I’m splitting it equally. So considering speakers then, if we’re splitting equal and looking at passive there’s £200 left if I go with the carbon evo, £400 with the RP1. A few that seem popular and well reviewed are the Elac Debut B5.2, Dali Skeptor 2, KEF Q150, Fyne Audio F302 and Klipsch R-41M which are around budget range. If were to look for an active one for the RP1+ I’d probably go for an edifier. Again open to all advice and really appreciate your guys help, I am completely new to this so would be lost without you |
Imo, with that limited of budget, I would consider an alternative. I would consider reallocating the funds toward primarily speakers and pre/amp or integrated. Source temporarily could be phone/laptop for digital, and if it is your pleasure, an inexpensive analog setup. There is no demand, rule of system building in which one has to balance the cost of elements of the system. If you plan on upgrading over time, buying everything budget ensures you will have to sooner upgrade everything, and possibly get arguably poorer sound in the meantime. Just remember this; the spectrum of sound quality is enormous, much greater than most audiophiles know. You can have many years of upgrading if that is the goal. There is no performance ceiling, not practically. The fact is that you can select any number of products and you will be at the starting line of what you could determine to be a marathon experience over a lifetime. No one here knows the outcome of the recommendations they are making. It's all guesswork. But, the system built will be beginner level; nice, thrilling for you! The only way to learn of sound quality and better over time is to keep building rigs (or plow time/money into the recordings/media, but that is tempered by a hard limit on the system's quality). |
Hello Oliver, I have tried most levels from budget to crazy expensive. Nothing, and I mean nothing has impressed me like a chines small company called Audio-GD. It is owned and lead by a genus analog engineer goes by Mr. Kingwa. Do not be turned down by thier very basic website, those guys are serious audiophile systems engineers and I highly recommend Audio-GD to anyone. It is not only the best vale for money, there platforms produce a level of musicality that it truly intoxicating and very difficult to find by another system. If you need help, lt me know. |
At that budget, I am going to suggest Vintage Receiver with Vintage Speakers (or used newer speakers) to start, and upgrade in the future. Vintage Receiver will give you several inputs, volume and balance, and MM phono built in. I also suggest getting one with ’loudness’ built in IF you listen at low volume at times. Get one with preamp out, or a tape loop, so you have the option of going out to self powered sub and back into receiver for mains. Speakers: Vintage or Newer Used have two advantages: 1. less cost 2. buy local pickup and listen at sellers before committing, and get right to return Speaker Type: 1. Efficient. Start trying to find higher sensitivity higher ___ db/1 watt/ 1 meter for a few reasons. a. they need less power, saves money now and future upgrades b. less needed power = smaller amp, lighter, less heat, greater flexibility of location c. when you try tubes, higher efficiency speakers will keep you in the category of less watts per channel, thus more affordable, smaller, lighter, less heat, flexibility of location 2. Avoid ports, if port, front facing, to avoid muddy reflections from sides, rear surfaces. 3. remember idea of out to self powered sub then sub to amp (or back to receiver) then to main speakers, gives advantages to both amp (or receiver) and advantages to main speakers. 4. IF trying 3 above, I recommend a pair of self-powered subs, front firing, adjacent to mains, to preserve stereo location of bass player. Bass fundamentals and the related overtones give directionality. |
You have been given some excellent advise and choices above. I second the Yamaha options as well rounded and full featured integrated amps. The Rega Brio is minimalist but sounds great and has a better phono section. Cambridge CXA series is nice as well. Marantz has some nice sounding amps in that price range and are very well reviewed. My experience has been they have a "mellower" sound than the others mentioned. They mate very well with, let's say a pair of Klipsch. Speaker matching will be important....Have fun! |
I'm with elliottbnewcombjr. Vintage (well maintained) will give you the most bang for the buck (or pound). Back when power was rated @RMS, this was a more honest, realistic rating. Older Marantz, Sansui, Sony and Pioneer receivers shouldn't disappoint, with most having built-in phono stage. For whatever reason I never see older JBL speakers mentioned. They excel for listening to rock/metal type music. Highly efficient and easy to push. When ready to upgrade, they should maintain resale value or you can hold on to for a secondary system. So many options, so little time... |
