Best Options For A Tubed Preamp - $2500 Or Less, Preferably Used To Maximize Value

I've owned and like the Black Ice Audio F360 line stage. Punches way above its retail price with some unique and useful features. Uses one 6SN7, so inexpensive to roll NOS tubes.

IMHO, all Black Ice products offer great value. I see a used F360 available now for $1600 (retail $2500). Check the usual used gear sites.

Black Ice Audio F360 Line Stage

I would recommend getting a used Audio Research LS ~ 24… 25, 26… the highest number you can find. Alternatively a Conrad Johnson preamp… as far back as you need to go.

Both of these companies have been at the forefront of high end preamp design for fifty years. They have made some of the best preamps of all times and you get extremely musical preamps that are constructed like tanks made to last a lifetime.

The following is a Copy Paste of a contribution I made to another recent tread.

In a Tube Pre-Amp Bake Off using Ear Power Amp's and ESL Speakers, this Pre' was proving to be more than capable. It was the choice made by the system owner. Not bad when Tube Pre's were available at the Bake Off with a retail of up to £5K and one being a EAR 868. 

___________________________________________________________

It would be in your interests to investigate the Pass Designed Korg B1 Pre Amp.

I am familiar with this design used with both SS and Tube. It is a Pre' that has well documented upgrade options.

As the basic build it offers a substantial amount and has proven to be a showstopper when built with a compliment of upgrades.  

What amplifier will the preamp drive? What is the amplifier gain and input impedance? Do you need XLR connections? 
There’s no one answer. You have to match the preamp to your amp. 

If you can stretch your budget a bit this is a great choice:

audiophile1 said:

"What amplifier will the preamp drive? What is the amplifier gain and input impedance? Do you need XLR connections? 
There’s no one answer. You have to match the preamp to your amp."

The amp, while very high quality is a very little know cult model. And I do clearly understand preamp/power amp matching. XLR connections are not needed, The amplifier spec of importance is:

amplifier input impedance 180k ohms

I appreciate the Audio Research LS suggestions, but it's always been my understanding that, being true balanced designs, you need a power amplifier thats also XLR to truly reach the best performance level. My amplifier is purely single ended. 

Do you want the phono stage or is a line stage what you're looking for?

All of the Audio Research LS models recommended have rca and xlr inputs and outputs. You are not restricted to balanced only.

Phil

@nightfall the ARC LS-25 is an outstanding preamp and offers gain adjustment and will work well with 180kohm input imp amplifier. Might be worth looking into it if you can spot one used. But sounds as if the XLRs aren’t a requirement. You then have CJ and even Rogue RP5 in that price range. 

If you can wait for it to pop up used -- and it does -- the deHavilland Ultraverve III is in the price range and very much worth the wait.

Possibly of interest 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/don-sachs-2-vs-dehavilland-ultraverve-3

I have stated this on many forums ad nauseam, Aric Audio makes some of the finest tube based gear. 

Ditto @hilde45  

deHavilland Ultraverve III is the best preamp I have owned by a large margin, bettering previous preamps from CJ, Aesthetix and BAT.  It responds wonderfully to tube rolling the 6SN7 tube (or 6F8G with an adaptor). 

Definitely spend money on a great preamp.   It is essential for good sound.   It's also the last place you want a bottleneck.

I had the privilege of owning a Zesto preamp  and it transformed my system.  More like transported it to another level.    I've always spent more on the preamp in my systems and never had any regrets.    

Do your homework on this one, your whole system revolves around the preamp.  You don't want to make a lateral move.  

Used can often put you in a component you could never have bought new.  

New. I would check out lab12 pre 1

I own a Primaluna Dialogue preamp and have enjoyed it, but haven’t had others mentioned in order to compare, like CJ or Audio Research. 

I recently discovered an icon Audio LA4 Mk 111 which I bought used for just over $1000. I swapped out the EH tubes with Shuguang Black Treasures and the sound was amazing. I am now using it to replace a very well reviewed pre which cost 6X as much. The icon represents real audio value but it is RCA only so no use if you are committed to XLR connections.

Aric Audio

happy new year to you!

OP,

The importance of matching fully balanced and single ended components depends on the specific components and on where your overall system is. Typically, especially with really high end components like Audio Research, the difference is minuscule to non-existent compared with the advantage of the component sound. I would unhesitatingly recommend the preamp connected to a non balanced amp. When your system is just about at the pinnacle of perfection annd your splitting hairs… it still might not make a difference. Importantly, Audio Research and Conrad Johnson ant the like are designed to be incredibly musical and sound great regardless of the connection you use. 
 

Plus 1 @ghdprentice 

Audio Research has a really warm sound. I saw an LS28 that sold for $3250 a couple of weeks ago.

All the best.

If you can think outside the box of mainstream audiophile tube preamps, you should check out space tech Labs. The designer will answer the phone and ask questions about your current equipment and your sound preferences, then will design around that information. 

Counterpoint SA-3000 or SA-5 (5.1).  Then you are done except for upgrading.

Best and newest  Conrad Johnson you can afford

Building a Tubes4HiFi SP14 preamp as I write this. 
 

Supposed to be great value and punch above its weight. 
 

Building a custom chassis for it. 
 

Will hopefully be done in the next month or so. 
 

Audible Illusions Modulus 3A/B 

+1@ghdprentice

+1 for the Audible Illusions, Modulus 3A. I see a couple over on the "other site" for $2K +/- a few bucks. Buy from a reputable dealer. GL

If you want certain sound qualities it's important to pay attention to what the tubes in the unit are. I tried a few 12au7 based preamps and was never satisfied noatter how much rolling I did. When I switched over to a don sachs model 2 that used 6sn7s a light went off. A little bit of warmth but nothing syrupy. Just a very natural sound with great detail. I loved the sachs which was based on the tubes 4 HiFi preamp which is a kit but the guy will build it for you with upgrades available such as better capacitors and such. What I ended up with was a ModWright LS100.tjey can be had used for less than 2500 and my goodness. It's a wonderful sounding preamp. 

Used Modwright LS100 . Right in your range, excellent pre. Great company

The ProJect Pre Box RS2 Digital is a balanced preamp with a selectable tube output (or solid-state if not selected) with multiple selectable filters, a headphone amp, and dual DAC (ESS Sabre Pro 9038). It has a small form factor. New it is a little more than your spending target, used, a little less.

The Schiit Freya+ is a balanced preamp with selectable tube section (giving 12dB gain) that uses 6SN7 and other octal tubes or available solid-state LISST octal modules in its tube section, It has also a buffered solid-state output section and a passive no-gain section. Its form factor is table-top, due to the tubes extending partially out of the metal housing. Price new about $900, used less, excluding LISST or tubes, which are additional.

If you you are lucky, you can find a PrimaLuna Evo400. Great tubes to start. Better with NOS tubes. Easy to play with. Reliable. People will often discredit without having experience with... just because designed in Netherlands but built in China. That is actually what wakes it an amazing deal for the quality of components. It has balanced ports too. I upgraded to a Shindo, which is better, but not night and day, and at a price.

+2 On the Schiit Freya+ preamp

Mike

+3 on the Freya +. 
Mine with Ken-Rad VT231’s in the gain stage and CBS-Hytron 5692’s in the buffer is the best combo of tubes that I’ve rolled 

I agree with @vinylvalet. Black Ice Audio does offer excellent value for their products and brings the fun back into music playback. BUt on the used market be sure to check out companies like Audio Research, Balanced Audio Technology, PS Audio BHK, and of course McIntosh. I now I've left several other in your budget but I'll leave that the to rest of the people here. 

"The amp, while very high quality is a very little know cult model."

It is also completely unknown in this/your thread asking advice as to what to mate with it.

DeKay

hilde45

Said:

"If you can wait for it to pop up used -- and it does -- the deHavilland Ultraverve III is in the price range and very much worth the wait."

I have heard great things about the deHavilland preamp in the past. Honestly, if there were one available, I would have snatched it up before even beginning this discussion. However, a check I made at hifishark.com indicates that exactly one of these has been sold online since September of 2022. Not great odds of finding one. and I can only go so long without a preamp:(

Audible Illusions 3A or 3B.  If you need phono,  The AI's have a great phono section.  You can also get it w/o phono.  I owned a AI 2D from 1991-2007, great sound, zero problems.  Had to replace tubes once or maybe twice.  Use AI's tubes if you want longevity from them.  After 2007, I bought a used AI 3A and it was slightly better sounding than the 2D.  Had it until I could wrangle a TRL DUDE used.  Finding a suitable phono preamp at a somewhat reasonable cost was very tough, however.  Since then, I've tried 5 different phono preamps to get records to even equal the AI's sound.  The AI's preamps have long been the Best Buy in all of audio.  That is not only preamps either.

The only drawback of them is you need to get off your butt to change the volume--no remote.  I need the exercise, no problem.  I have no remote with the DUDE either.  

Bob

curiousjim

Said: 

"Audio Research has a really warm sound. I saw an LS28 that sold for $3250 a couple of weeks ago.

All the best."

Thanks for the recommendation. Excellent preamp but unfortunately just above what I can spend. The price limit of $2500.00 is as far as I can go at this point in time. I just had to replace a furnace at the cost of $6500.00 two weeks ago. :(

@nightfall 

I have heard great things about the deHavilland preamp in the past. Honestly, if there were one available, I would have snatched it up before even beginning this discussion. However, a check I made at hifishark.com indicates that exactly one of these has been sold online since September of 2022. 

My search on hifi shark shows 8 in 2023 alone. Not sure what your filters are, but this is not that rare.

 and then click "expired" and sort by date.

My only filter was items for sale/sold in North America. It showed one sold in August of 2023, and the last one before that in August of 2-22! I just realized that my search did not include ones people labeled Ultraverve 3 vs III, that appears to be the issue. 

Here is the link:

I have the JJ 243 preamp and love it.

@nightfall  Search terms can be tricky. Try searching for just dehavilland.

Anyway, you sound like you're wanting something faster than that, but for me, this is an end-game model.

hilde45

@nightfall Search terms can be tricky. Try searching for just dehavilland.

"Anyway, you sound like you’re wanting something faster than that, but for me, this is an end-game model."

I would certainly like something sooner, but may hold out a bit in hopes a deHavilland pops up. I just have the feeling it may well be my best option. And affordable too.

Other options I am considering are the very highly thought of Lab 12 Pre 1, which I can buy new in my budget, a used Cary SLP-98L, a classic Conrad Johnson, and a Backert Rhumba 1.1. 

You can purchase the boutique brands or the brands that are near the top . Look hard at exactly what you are buying compare Apples to Apples. I won't  name bash but some dealers will push certain names because they are authorized dealers. Some people shop for the price but when you want to up grade the piece will be worthless. One company has a distributors on You Tube flapping his gums about how good this product is . I became was curious just how good the product could be if the latest models are popping up on all the trade sites . GHprentice.  GEORGE steered me right save yourself a headache .Buy once and cry once . Audio Research or Conrad Johnson you cant go wrong .The only reason why I purchased Conrad Johnson is because of the fuse protection of the power supply.

You can find a solid ARC or CJ piece be patient and save your money up.

😊🥵 Thank you for your kind words. Happy New Year.

Hi - I am currently selling 2 preamps on Audiogon, a Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 2 chassis preamp that was professionally upgraded by the SF designer, Chris Johnson @ Parts Connexion in Canada. This is a class A preamp and will be vastly superior to anything you can buy today for less than $10,000. I am asking $2000. The other one is a BAT VK51 se that I am asking $3250 for it. This one is balanced, so if you use RCA cables you would need XLR to RCA adapters. Enjoy the ride!

I'll second (or third?) the Conrad Johnson Suggestion.  I run solid state in a couple of systems but my primary system runs a Premier 14 preamp and a Premier 11a power amp.

Line 2CRM Line Preamplifier from Mapletree Audio - An earlier version has been in my main rig for many years while I upgraded everything else around it. Fun to tube roll to get the sound you prefer.

https://www.mapletreeaudio.com/

My tube preamp journey started with a stock PAS3, then a restored PAS3, then a VanAlstine Super PAS3, then a Conrad Johnson PV5, then an AI M3.  

I now switch between an ARC SP-10MKII and an AI M3B.  Both are sublime, and can be found within your price range.  The AI is on the neutral side of tube warmth, the ARC has more warmth, but also better definition.

Biggest changes I noticed in progression was from a restored PAS3 to the Super Pas 3, then when switching from the CJ PV5 to and AI M3 (pre "a" model).

An AI M3 or M3a are true bargains, can be found for about $1k with some patience.

Schiit Freya+. Buy a pair each of NOS Tung Sol 6SN7 GTB and Sylvania chrome top tubes.

Done.