Fun thread! Good info. As a resident MidFi guy in the group, I’m lovin’ the Auris Audifi. Versatile WiFi devise with ESS Sabre DAC that connects to many music services through the 4Stream phone app. Under $300 and often sold out. The marketplace speaks :)
The weakest parts of my system are my ears, but I’m living in the golden era of Internet info and luxuriate in a recapped high current throwback rig that blends this group’s knowledge with 40 year old pro-audio power. You folks have tipped me to ways I can burrow under HiFi mark ups to find stuff like Mogami cables, the dynamics of “heritage” baffle step box speakers and strong DAC bits hidden in inexpensive devices.
it pays to lurk here! I’m getting huge returns from an unpowered Schiit Sys pre amp switch with an analog pot in line from the Audifi DAC. The discussions here about gain and interconnects were golden. Digital levels maxed with Canare 75 ohm cable into the Sys, with its analog gain pot very low…magically created an awesome soundstage from Mogami 3103 connected Wharfedale Lintons with a small REL sub. Some really smart poster tipped me to try this, noting that “line level” used to be lower into amps like my 1980s era pro audio Crown amps. Might sound like “Red Green Show” stuff to the high end folks here but it is amazingly musical in the confines of our vintage bungalow LOL
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Congrats! Keep us posted!
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Yes. Thank you ALL!
I bought Rogue used with EH tubes, $900 delivered!
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Nice!!! Yes I think this is the best move to upgrade the sound quality. The DAC in the node is not terrible at all. Yes you can do better but not with $1000
As to RP-1, it doesn’t run hot. There’s a little “window” above the two 12AU7 tubes. One note on tubes - the stock JJs are quiet and reliable but you can do better with Gold Lion (not expensive, good improvement). Listen to it with stock JJs to get used to it first though. One other thing I really liked about RP1 when I had it was the built in phono stage. Surprisingly good!
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@audphile1
i got your drift. And I bought the Rogue RP-1. I took all these wonderful opinions and suggestions in. The reasons for the reasoning. It just makes sense to firstly allow my Bluesound Node3 to run through a hybrid tube preamp. I may even now go back to my Marantz Model 15, at 60 (old school) WPC for fun, after giving my NAD C 316BEE v2 a listen at (40) WPC.
I have to see/hear if an EXTERNAL DAC will now be order?
And come tube amp use in the Fall, ( my Mancave is 75 degrees + now in TN with the TCL 55” TV on)as the weather goes chilly, the Cary SLI-80 tube amp comes out to provide warmth… (hopefully this new Rogue RP-1 half-tube preamp runs coolish?) Anyone know? But I wonder how the Cary tube amp will sound with the Rogue RP – 1?
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answered in your other thread, but +1 on Black Ice @soix however the stock tubes were just OK - I put NOS Mullard's in almost immediately - they are not cheap but even so still a bargain for how good the sound is.
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Warmth and soundstage
Your goals are crying out for a tubed DAC. At just above your price target there’s the excellent MHDT Orchid others have recommended here. At a bit below your price target there’s the Black Ice Glass DAC. In both cases you have the benefit of being able to tube roll to further customize the sound to your liking if you so desire, and if nothing else it’s nice to have the option. If you’re tube averse a good R2R DAC like the Denafrips Ares II, as others have mentioned, is worth a look. Hope this helps, and best of luck.
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"@moose89 La-Z-Boy recliner sets directly across from my television and entertainment center and a 7 foot or 6 foot triangle.
Got it. So the room itself if larger than I was wondering about. Firstly, hundreds of posts over the years of people pairing external dacs with Nodes. The BB and ESS chips version dacs sound different too, heard them natively on a few buddies systems, and after adding external dacs. Lots of members here who've done it and live well with external dacs today. Each benefited from external dacs, however they were looking for something different, such as more clarity, less grain, smoother sound, etc. Two more questions fwiw.
1) What are you looking for "more" or "less" of from your system now, as it stands in your existing room configuration and system setup? i.e I recall you said warmer and soundstage. How about at the loss of some detail to be warmer, and may lose some soundstage - etc, is that okay, etc. i.e List what's most important to you 1,2,3. Folks here can get you closer - those who've tried 4+ dacs with Nodes.
2) Have you experimented a lot with Toe-in vs Toe straitght (zero toe) and Toe out with the Cornwalls on rollers (nice)? I learned about this later in my audio ventures, free and easy to do, and can be quite interesting with horn speakers too. i.e. I cannot toe my speakers in too much, or it yields a beaming sound I don't like.
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Might want to check this....but if you're using the Node as a Pre then the output is an analogue signal. Not sure how you work an external DAC into this configuration.
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I think many Burr Brown based designs will deliver the warmth that you’re looking for. Bluesound Node uses Burr Brown (except for the latest X which uses Sabre).
check out the Parasound Classic 200 (preamp or integrated) which implements the PCM1798 quite well and can be found used for about $1000.
Or, if you use Roon then the best that I’ve heard in that price range is one of the old Parasound D/AC 1000/1500/2000 which used the PCM63. I mention Roon because that chip can only accept 16/48 so you’d need to set the Node output in Roon not to send a signal higher than that sample rate. As an aside, Mike Moffat is on record saying that the PCM63 is the best DAC chip ever made. The fellas from Pass Labs are also on record saying the same.
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I’ll tell you, I have several systems with one as my reference. In my reference I jumped from a node to an Esoteric network player and it was a quantum leap in DACs, sound wise, performance and the ability to play DSD. However, I’ve played with using external DACs on my other vintage systems with the node as a streamer and the Nodes DACs are hard to beat. Even from their earlier version nodes. The only thing that came close at that particular price point were a Schitt Mani and an Jolida Glass tx tube dac however none or poor DSD support. So, I guess what I’m getting too is if you’re considering an upgrade go big or stay with what you have and enjoy! Otherwise the cost vs benefit isn’t there and you’re just wasting you money. Hope this helps and enjoy!
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For warmth and soundstage a used Gustard X26 Pro (i owned) or maybe the new Gustard R2R version which I have not owned. Both can be bought for under a $1000.
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If you’re using your Bluesound Node as preamp, you will continue to be held back in the two areas you’re looking to improve. In my opinion, picking up a good preamp, i.e. Rogue RP1, will take you further than adding an external DAC. Just a thought…
DACs under $1000, even used, will not offer much of an improvement especially if you’re bottlenecking the system with the Node as a preamp.
If you don’t want to get a dedicated preamp, I would then recommend a used Lumin D1 which is a streamer with a built in DAC. It has a better DAC and a much better volume control than the Bluesound Node. Only downside is the Lumin app which is not as user friendly as Blue.
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Best DAC I ever tried and used myself was the Playback Designs MPD6. I liked it so much that I traded in my MPD6 for the MPD8. I am not the type to spend 20k+ on DACs... first time for me.
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@decooney
yes. Converted single garage on a raised Peco wooden floor with a space between the cement and floating floor. Room is 20 x 12, listening space is 12 x 12, and ceilings 9’. triangle is accurate, and one speaker is in a corner, and I have put rollers with platforms below the Cornwalls to tweak them as needed. My room is full of performed wall coverings and rug and La-Z-Boy recliner sets directly across from my television and entertainment center and a 7 foot or 6 foot triangle.
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Schiit Bifrost 2/64 simply because I have one (and it sounds great).
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@moose89 your comment here "Mancave is treated, speakers and me complete a 6’ triangle" is kinda throwing me. Can’t imagine, and with those speakers. I’m a former owner of SLI-80, fwiw. Selecting the right dac in your case is critical, imo.
As for dacs, I can share recent experience with MHDT Orchid w/upgrades (all possible tubes), current Schiit Bifrost 2/64 and Border Patrol SE-I now too. I’ve enjoyed all three of these dacs for different reasons. Each sounds different.
For anyone to help more - if I may suggest, you need to share a little bit more about this six foot triangle space you are listening in. What are the actual dimensions of this room/space, walls, width, ceiling height? Wow, and how close are you sitting to the Cornwall speakers? (i.e. really, a 6’ triangle?); share more details...
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I forgot to mention, in this price range it's hard to really lose money. Do some testing and trading. Try one out on a whim, especially if you can score a good option used. Live with it a few weeks and if you don't like it, put it up for sale and try another.
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Schiit is a lot of things, but warmth isn’t one of them. I have a Bifrost2/64 right now and it is clear, airy, detailed and articulate with decent soundstaging. Best analogy is like an economical 4k TV with the contrast and sharpness just a click or two too high. Great for a lot of reasons, but warmth and ultimate natural realism isn’t it’s strongest features. It was better after a few modifications to the output card, but then I went too far and destroyed the board so I’m back to square one with a stock output card.
Just bought an MHDT Atlantis to play with and knowing that is easier to modify I should be able to tinker a little easier. From what I’ve read that dac is supposed to be on the smoother side and modifications and tube rolling brings it back to more neutral and snappy, clear side. We’ll see how it goes.
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For warmth, a used MHDT Orchid will come in at your budget. +2 on the Ares.
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+1 for the Denafrips Ares/Enyo - especially if you're looking for warmth and soundstage.
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Soekris dac1421 is worth a look. As a bonus it has variable output, can be matched to an Apple Remote, and has a headphone output with crossfeed.
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Mike Moffit, the Schiit digital designer is one of the greats. He's been at the top of his field for over 4 decades.
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Totally depends on what improvements/sound characteristics you’re looking for, so I ask again…
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Denafrips Ares II / Enyo.
$870 USD.
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At the shallow end of the pool it is hard to beat schiit.
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What improvements/sound characteristics are you looking for and what’s your budget?
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