I don't know why their amps look like a cheap Kenmore oven. For this much money, couldn't they look nice(r)?

I know, it's subjective mostly, the sound matters a 50 times more

@Mr_Bill, thanks for the heads up! Indeed, the 50 series looks fascinating and in my opinion the right product to go to market with. Next, great marketing to reach Millennials with extra cash to get their first really nice system. If I was in product development for ARC, I would have included a high quality DAC/ streamer / phono stage for an extra 2k rounding it out to around 5.5k. Its just about affordable enough for younger folks with moderately decent disposable income and would represent a far larger market with which to drive sales. 
 

ARC should not give up, but go all in on this one more time - forget uber high-end focus for the immediate present.

One problem with I50 and some others is you cant tube roll easily. Thats a big knock.  Audio Research had 3 dealers within 30 minutes of me over the last 5 years or so.  They've ALL been stripped of the ARC brand because they didnt sell enough units.  It wasnt the dealers choice to have the brand removed.

The European Brands seem to have a leg up on the iconic American brands when it comes to new technology in 2 channel hi- fi. They are the "innovators"....the Chinese companies on the other hand are the "best bang for the buck" suppliers.......the American companies are the "brands we grew up with" suppliers not necessarily the best innovators or the best "value".........Having said that , it’s good to support American companies but becoming harder and harder as fresh new products are introduced by the Europeans and Chinese that just sound fantastic . I do notice that the show crowds seem to be getting older and older.....not a good sign for 2 channel.

@4afsanakhan 

Example of a successful brand bridging the gap; Technics (by Panasonic).

“I’m going to cross shop Technics, Devialet and Audio Research” said no one, ever. In the history of the world.

Listen, you and I can agree to disagree on the semantics of what is or isn’t high end. ARC products or even pricing wasn’t the problem. Strategic blunders by the most recent leadership, financial mismanagement and a crippling debt load each contributed to a viable business stumbling. ARC will come out the other side just fine and refocus its efforts on what its good at building. I see many here on Audiogon talk about the high end market shrinking….the fact is that the high end has never been better. Companies come and go in every industry.

I also tire of reading how bad the economy is, how there is no disposable income, how every audiophile and audio show is populated by predoninantly old men. But that was true 20 years ago and yet, here we are coming off the two best years high end audio has experienced in a couple of generations. Obviously the older generation continues to be replaced with the next generation of older consumers. There has never been a time in this hobby where there was a broader, deeper and better set of gear from which to choose. Young people today are diving in to vinyl, enjoying the interactive, tactile hifi experience.

For so long the Gold Standard. Very sad. Hope they pull through.

well said @ghasley 

hit nail on head on all counts

just the speaker sales alone in high end audio was over a billion dollars last year. It's easy to fail with any business but it's not for the lack of buyers

Since the market for high end gear is world wide, and not just limited to a certain demographic and location, that would seem to be what has been holding up the industry. 

However, ARC has some serious competition due to this world wide market, more so than ever before in the past. When ARC was in their heyday ( which IMO was in the mid 80's to the late 90's), they had the US market far more to themselves than today, and they had a decent exposure in Europe as well. This situation applies to many other well known high end US audio companies today, which makes me question who is going down next, unfortunately. It would seem that many of these US companies have been heavily relying on the far east market, question is for how long can that continue?

The number of US brands at European dealers today is negligible, the opposite of true about European brands at US dealers.

I can see how ARC appeals to the older generation and a very wealthy segment of it, and how other, mostly Scandinavian brands figured out the formula to find a much broader audience.

Way back in the late 90s an iconic German sport car manufacturer realized they couldn't survive making only two seater sports car.  They needed to make a vehicle that had mass appeal and that was the genesis of the Porsche SUV.  SUV models now account for 63% of Porsche sales.

ARC needs to come up with products that have mass appeal if they wish to survive long term.  They need to expand beyond their niche while still keeping their existing customer base.  A difficult task, but not impossible.

@grislybutter     A billion bucks of speaker sales last year. So, in toto, about 5 pairs each of Magico M9s and Wilson Chronosonics then.

ARC isn’t set up to be a high-volume manufacturer.  They’re a premium brand that plays in the higher end.  Full stop.  They are not Sony.  And there is plenty of room for audio manufacturers in that space and plenty are doing well.  This strikes of mismanagement to me, which leaves me hopeful that someone who understands the luxury goods market can rescue this iconic company assuming they find the right buyer.  I’m hopeful and optimistic that there’s enough brand equity and concerned long-term employees that they’ll find the right solution and soldier on. 

@atmasphere I think you are right about the KT150. + @daveyf  + @fsonicsmith1 

Y​​es, I have been tracking both KT150s and KT120s past 3 years, closely.  Picked up two spare quad sets in small availability windows that came and went again.   My amps use these tubes only.  Checking monthly, the group of less known suppliers I use [who stock up] are out of stock, again.  Checking the manufacturer - they are out of stock again too.  Clearly the war and supply lines as mentioned is not helping the situation.  The major supply in volume outside of individual sellers is relatively thin, gone for now. The supplies I tracked that "were coming  in May" are "out of stock" again or never came in.  Not sure exactly but the message is the same.  

Following ARC past few years, they were purchasing big batches, and then sorting again matching even closer matched sets in supply box groupings/ranges for new amps and replacements for customers re-tubuing their amps.  

Seems It's kinda hard to sell new amps or service existing customers in volume when you can't get output tubes in supply, or how you need them. I'm wondering who will surface to clone KT120s and KT150s, take it on, and start selling them.  

I am not suggesting ARC go mass market, but may be they should consider some diversification.  Do they make a headphone amp?  How about they emulate Manley and offer some pro oriented equipment.  When studios switched to digital recording/mixing the demand for tube equipment skyrocketed.  If you can design a low noise phono stage, I would think you could design a microphone preamp.  Tube compressor/limiters are a thing.  Even a small format line mixer should be doable.  How about a tube guitar amplifier?  Somebody has to make the most expensive guitar amplifier.

Alternatively ARC can continue to do exactly what they have been doing.  True they keep changing ownership and right now are in receivership, but may be that has nothing to do with what they sell. 

as far as I know (and I know 0), a business needs to 1) increase the prices or 2) sell more stuff to stay alive. If they sell something that a) very few people can buy and b) never breaks, they will have a problem (unless they also sell coke behind the warehouse)

But usually, with my business sense, doing the opposite of what I think would work is the right approach. So, no, don’t sell coke behind the warehouse.

Yes...the last 2 years were record sales years....haha..COVID....everyone was Home for 2 years...now people are back outside again and that's why sales have slowed considerably...look at the sales going on....You want to buy a hi fi piece of gear.....bargain with the retailer. I did and he discounted $$$$ off.

@ghasley I fully agree. From myself personally along with a number of friends and acquaintances, who've jumped into two channel, mostly due to my journey and setup.

Your post is very well said. There are plenty of younger people who have plenty of disposable income and a passion for the hobby, along with a growing variety of brands and choices in the market. Which is a great thing but does makes it even harder to pick new components with all the choices!

"It ain't over 'tlll it's over..." Receivership doesn't necessarily mean liquidation and closing the doors. Hopefully they can work out something with the creditors (who get less than 100% of what they're owed) and the company moves forward in their reorganized state.

I know that this may sound strange, but where a problem exist, there maybe an exciting opportunity.  The market maybe rough right now, but might a conglomeration of individuals come together to emerge this Phoenix.  I would be happy to speak with any members interested in pooling resources towards this venture.  Please DM privately to discuss. 

ARC designs are compromised and not state of the art. Overpriced for what you get. See video for the anatomy of their flagship mono blocks.

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR-ry-DFdeo

Post in this thread:

https://www.audioshark.org/audio-research-corporation-arc-36/future-audio-research-21912.html?highlight=future+audio+research

Re: The Future of Audio Research

Hello, everyone. This is my first Audioshark post because I want to make everyone aware of what is going on at Audio Research. Some of you know me because I was hired by Bill Johnson in 1989. I left for a few years (Thiel), and returned to ARC in 1996. 

Audio Research voluntarily agreed to assign its assets to a receiver, Lighthouse Management Group, Inc, on April 4th. I want you to understand what that means and how it affects our daily operations.

Audio Research has been operating since the assignment was filed almost four weeks ago, which was ten days before the AXPONA, show where our VP of Sales (Allan Haggar) worked with our dealer Quintessence Audio, which featured a statement system including Ref10, RefPhono10, and Ref160M MkII amps. 

Little has changed outwardly. Audio Research remains staffed with Greg and Evan answering questions and assisting owners via email and on the phone; the service department continues repairing products; production is building new products and performing updates; our parts inventory has been good and we continue to receive parts shipments; our sales department continues to accept product orders, and our shipping department is shipping parts and product orders along with completed service units. 

Trent Suggs was relieved of control of Audio Research and we have been working with individuals to purchase the company: we expect to have a new owner very soon. There will be continuity as production, engineering, purchasing, service, and critical personnel will remain working for Audio Research. Including Warren Gehl. 

Operating a dedicated, high performance audio electronics manufacturer is more difficult than you might imagine, particularly given the increasing cost of doing business because of parts shortages, continuation engineering, shipping costs, inflation, and so many other things. Audio Research continues to build every product by hand, including hand-soldering components, creating their meter assemblies using local suppliers, and supporting products more than 50 years old. After each piece is completed, it is bench tested, burned in for 24-48 hours, bench tested again, and auditioned in a reference system to make sure it sounds right before being packed. And, every service piece is auditioned, too. It is an exhaustive process. If any of you are around Minneapolis, schedule an appointment to see how we do it.

Too many products, many overpriced. $10,000 for a preamp that weighs in at twelve pounds is hard to rationalize. I had an LS-28 in my system for a while and although it was nice, it was not great, didn’t seem that well made and the new styling wasn’t for me.

But I wish them well and am sure they will make a comeback.

Years ago I schlepped my "original series" Schiit Freya to a gathering of some audio geek friends to compare it to other stuff including a couple of ARC preamps...I still use the Freya as my main preamp. Does Schiit know something ARC doesn't? You bet they do.

William Z. Johnson who was the visionary died in December 2011. If you recall we were still in reeling from the 2008-09 crash and high end stereo sales were way down- Hifi shops were closing all over the country. Johnson sold the company in 2008 to FineSounds SpA (Sonus Faber) which later rolled up into McIntosh Group in 2016. In August 2020 Trent Suggs who was a sales manager bought the struggling company (Nobody seems to know where he got the money). I was told Suggs was a WZ Johnson fan boy who wanted to get the old cooperate culture back that the suits destroyed. The damage to the morale but not the brand was done. The plan for rebuilding the clubby atmosphere and bringing top grade products to market was disrupted by COVID supply chain disruptions, then insane input costs (+400% in some cases)  and lack of capital 

Take the M320 for example. That amp was supposed to hit the market last year- now it's not even on the website. 

Massive cost increases, playing catch up, and underfunding all contributed to this receivership.  Now there will be a struggle for who gets to own ARC. 

Personally I don' think it will vanish- the brand is too valuable. Here's to hoping that a real HiFi man will buy it and love it and tenderly care for it like William Z did. It is an American icon and needs to be saved. 

Kodac wrote: ARC designs are compromised and not state of the art. Overpriced for what you get. See video for the anatomy of their flagship mono blocks.

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR-ry-DFdeo

OCD Guy /11Stereo Atlanta is a NAT dealer. Upstart rival. You always pick a fight with the biggest kid when you want to make a name for yourself. 

What I am buying when I buy ARC gear is proven research converted into field tested technology. Nobody has the power transformer technology ARC has. It's proprietary and as my repairman says  "has some magic in it".  Anybody can build a frame, buy some good quality caps, resistors, tubes, etc. and solder them together.. But what combo creates what voice? There is where the years and years of laboratory work pay off. 

I agree that the Ref 750s were overpriced at retail. So what? Buy a used set for $15K. They are readily available and flat out awesome if you like clean volume. Moreover they weren't priced for poor guys. Really wealthy men don't flinch at 85K for amps. I have a friend who puts $26,000 of diesel in his 170' boat for a Saturday cruise to Charleston for dinner and back. That's not counting the crew of 4, the fine wine he serves, the boat itself, the insurance, maintenance etc. It's an $85,000 Saturday- which is no big deal to him. There are LOTS of guys with that kind of bank. More than you can imagine.  

You get the point: Cost of luxury goods are relative to the will of the spender. ARC sold a blue Jillion of those Ref 750s. Ditto the Ref 600s, and the latest (10 years old now) Ref 250s. 70% of their sales were overseas! You can get a Ref 75 for 4K, a Ref 250 for 10K, and a ref 750 for 15K pretty easily these days. Add a Ref 5SE and you have the core of a system that will rival almost anything sold today- for very little money. 

This begs a question: Why is resale so low compared to original MSRP?  The answer may surprise you.  Rich men don't spend much time quibbling over rounding errors when they trade in or trade up. Most of the truly wealthy guys I know call up their dealer and say "come get my LS 460 and bring me an LS 500L in the morning" They don't trot out with their calculator and checkbook haggling like an rug merchant at at bazaar. The bill goes to their family office and gets examined, verified and paid. If the dealer gouges him his office manager calls them up and explains that if this isn't fixed Daddy Warbucks and all his 300 golfing, sailing, club buddies will never buy from Mr. Greedydealer again. Presto! the invoice changes. Big Daddy's golf outing isn't interrupted so he's happy, the family office gang is proud of protecting the cash well, and the dealer has some used equipment to move for quick cash.  

I hope Krell isn't next.

Sad to see a dedicated audio company starting to go under---maybe they'll be bought out? But didn't AR show off their new integrated I50 at AXPONA recently? Does anyone know if the I50 is doing well in sales numbers? 

$26,000 of diesel in his 170' boat for a Saturday cruise

something doesn't add up. That's about two or three times more than it should be, or maybe my yacht is super efficient.

@grislybutter Indeed…thats about 19,000 liters of fuel so cruising that size “boat” at 20 knots would yield somewhere between 1,100 and 1,200 nautical miles of range.

#bluorion

The I/50 is already like 1 year old. Reviews started coming out last Spring.

In August 2020 Trent Suggs who was a sales manager bought the struggling company (Nobody seems to know where he got the money).

It appears ARC/Trenton Suggs, borrowed the money from Minnesota Bank and Trust, a division of HTLF Bank. It appears as of a court filling on 04/28/2023 ARC/Trenton Suggs owed the Bank $1,750,00.00 and counting.

This is from a post on SH Forum. (click on second PDF posted by "The Computer Audiophile", Wednesday at 9:22AM.)

Audio Research is gone?

From what I understand about the operating business model of ARC is that ARC builds very little inventory held at the factory. ARC’s inventory for years was held by the ARC dealers. FWI, the Dealers buys and pays up front for the equipment before it is shipped to the Dealer. Worked that way for years from my understanding. Pretty good business model for ARC. ARC didn’t have their Capital/money setting in a warehouse collecting dust.

The ARC Dealers chose what equipment they wanted to purchase from ARC. That included what equipment they bought for demo equipment displayed in the store. Therein a smaller ARC Dealer could carry store demo equipment of his choosing and if a customer wanted to buy a piece of equipment the dealer may have a new one in stock or tell the customer the dealer would order it from ARC. (From my understanding the piece of equipment would be built or finally assembled after order was placed and paid for.) Customer paid for the equipment up front. Dealer then placed the order with ARC. Money paid up front to ARC for the piece of equipment.

Things seemed to work ok between the Dealers and ARC under this agreement for years.

Then, from what I was told, ARC/Trent Suggs changed the business model. At least for the ARC dealer in my area. New policy, to be an ARC Dealer the Dealer would have to carry the full line of ARC equipment. Remember the Dealer buys, owns, the ARC equipment on display in his store paid for up front before it is shipped. At the prices of of ARC equipment for a Dealer to carry, buy, of all of the ARC line to display in his/her store would be a considerable cost for an average, or bigger than average, size Brick and Mortar Dealer. The Dealer in my state dropped ARC. There is not any ARC Dealer in my State anymore. I wonder how many other Dealers dropped ARC after Trenton Suggs purchased ARC.

ARC Dealers in North America. Not sure if this list is current today.

https://audioresearch.com/north-american-dealers/

.

#jea48

Sorry but its not true that to be an ARC Dealer you must carry every product. Ive had 3 ARC dealers within 30 minutes of me over the last decade and NONE of them had more than 1 ARC system in the house. Another dealer friend of mine just signed up to be an ARC dealer within the past few months and while the situation isnt solidified I can guarantee you 100% that he wont be carrying a full line. Think he's only getting the Mid Tier - Lower priced gear and not the M160 Mono/Stereo etc stuff

Per the previous discussion, the following new sale may be a sign of hard times in hi-end audio, for other companies than Audio Research. Big HE manufacturers selling off high-priced items at major discounts. For instance, a 5m pair of Audioquest Wind RCA interconnects (list $7300) selling off at $2399. A lot of other examples of fire-sale pricing on uber-priced equipment, such as: AudioQuest 2m XLR Wel Signature Interconnects (retail $10,200) selling off at $2,999.00.

https://www.musicdirect.com/search/?sc_lid=237651901&sc_llid=100554&sc_src=email_3470468&sc_uid=kgPjcS8a0E&utm_campaign=musicdirect%20soundbytes%20issue%20%231093_6_05-06-23sc_eh%3D4590af3f68eb09b91&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Emarsys#/+/0/score/desc/?tab=product&brand_name_na_str=AudioQuest&category_names_na_str=Cable,Equipment&specials_na_str=On%20Sale
   

This could be the end.   

The quality is extremely poor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR-ry-DFdeo&t=1229s

I am sure that Mr. Suggs had sophisticated financial analysis prepared by specialist to determine the advisability of purchasing ARC.  For those of you not familiar with the business world this is a mandatory and usual step for ANYONE purchasing a business, from the purchase of a major business to a coffee shop.  And probably the bank would have examined this analysis as well as the company assets securing the loan.

Then on a monthly or at least quarterly basis there would be analysis prepared that compares what budgeted income and expenses were, by major income and expense classes, to determine what is working well and what is not.

Quite frankly, I find it hard to see any light at the end of this tunnel.  

Cables are discounted now since China makes counterfeits of most all cables the used market is dead since most think cables are counterfeits. Ive tried to sell used costly cables all you get is accusations that they are fakes. And the audio market is cyclic we had massive demand and sales during COVID it makes sense after all that buying things would greatly slow down. And AR has been making junk of late why they are dying.

@jetter.  While it is expected that ‘sophisticated’ financial analysis was done before purchasing ARC, I very seriously doubt that this did much if anything to the continuation of a successful business. How many times have we seen folk pay multi millions for businesses that fundamentally were worth ‘peanuts’, and had extensive and sophisticated’ financial analysis done prior to acquisition? Makes me laugh…

This is a receivership, not bankruptcy.   And what it really means in a nutshell is that the creditors with secured loans are not very happy (most likely delinquent payments) and the actual management of ARC will now be taken over by the Receiver.   It would make no sense for the receiver to liquidate ARC's critical infrastructure unless things are totally desperate.  Remember, receivership is an action taken by the creditors, not ARC.  If ARC needs to protect themselves from the creditors, then they would be filing Chapter 11.  Which is really a whole different (although often interrelated) thing.....

If I recall correctly, W Z Johnson had a difficult time getting the right price to surrender his interest in the company and that initial buyout put ARC in an upside down position from that date forward. A great company---I have an all ARC system and respect the badge immensely--- I hope that a well financed savior who understands the audio market can take them out of the hole and deliver them up to where they deserve to be.

co93

... receivership is an action taken by the creditors, not ARC ...

That is mistaken. In fact, based on the court filings, it may have been a surprise to the bank that this filing was made. (Although, given Suggs' delinquency, it shouldn't have been a total surprise.) The bank’s filings suggest its claim is with Suggs and his private company, not ARC.

I think one option could be a spinoff. I have no idea what IP and patents they have, but this is such a complex science, and partly art that an amp company has two great assets: the engineers and the process. Minneapolis is the birthplace of so many inventions and innovations, the culture is there, they just need proper management.

The ghost meters are cool, but I find products capable of rolling to different tube types, auto bias circuits, and means to troubleshoot a bad tube far more appealing.

@walkertm From The Ref 160M description (also applies to 160S and 80S):

The REF160M also features a proprietary auto-bias circuit that works with various tubes types, including 6550, KT88, and KT120, in addition to the supplied KT150 and works constantly to maintain precise bias of the output tubes, while also adjusting for tube wear. There is no need to check or adjust bias ever again.

Further speculation on boards like this is beyond pointless. I’m just waiting out to see what happens the next month. If my Ref 6 becomes unsellable, that sucks but it's no big deal to me - it’s still an amazing sounding preamp and I’ll find a use for it.

I have been a fan of ARC since the mid 90’s. I am saddened that they are struggling and wish them all the best. I for one do not want to see this brand disappear into history. Visiting their factory many times over the years I always respected how they built things, and measures of quality control. So, despite the exhortative price tag of their products, I appreciate the value they represent. That being said, their products being so expensive and limited in their flexibility, I do see as a hinderance to purchasing their product. $5500.00 for an entry level integrated is a lot of money, for something that the competition sells at a cheaper price and can do more.  I am hoping they will take a long hard look at their line and the capabilities their components currently have. I would like to see them offer more affordable big bang for the buck solutions; like Gallion, PrimaLuna, Rogue, and Willsenton. The ghost meters in the current line of amps are cool, but I find products capable of rolling to different tube types, having features like auto bias circuits, and means to troubleshoot a bad tube far more appealing.

Audio Research make a very good sound,the problem is on its sales channel. 

They go the dealers and make the final sale price very high,way higher than the factory price. Look at Tesla cars! The cars must be complicated than the amplifier,as the cars include the hifi system,and much more. But Tesla let you order online as a retailer client. Why Audio Research can't??? Bring the retail price down is the first job,they need do. Get the direct channel instead of dealer way. Audio Research will make profit soon in the future.

Re the point about asymmetry in market presence between European & US brands: I live in Scotland and spent the last several months trying to audition (and hopefully buy) an ARC amplifier. I approached all the listed dealers within several hours drive - few responded, and all who did simply tried to sell me other brands.

I approached the UK distributor directly - no response. I’ve no bought an Octave (German) and am very pleased with it. The self-inflicted idiocy of Brexit shouldn’t have impacted shipping from the US, so I’m going to just guess at a combo of the factory being unable to ship product, plus the lazy arrogance of much of the UK’s ‘high end’ dealers and distributors.

From The Absolute Sound: Audio Research Corporation Is Dead! Long Live the New Restructured Audio Research Corporation!

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audio-research-corporation-is-dead-long-live-the-new-restructured-audio-research-corporation/?mc_cid=57e827209c&mc_eid=dbc9896170

I totally agree with @4afsanakhan . This isn't 45 years ago. There are many tempting foreign and domestic brands, and only so many buyers.