Any Advice for those Listening to Youtube Reviewers?
I’d like to recognize that it takes a great set of self promotional skills to become successful in the Youtube world. That said most of the audio reviewers I’ve seen don’t have the experience to review, or the kind of space that would really allow gear to shine.
Most of them start of with K-Mart like gear, did their formula and got popular, and jumped far up the audio food chain. Of course everything they review is going to be great compared to the Service Merchandise system they sold last year.
Just throwing it out there that people should be careful listening to these guys that are mostly working for the views/money (not that some aren’t passionate).
I listen to videos on YT mainly to entertain myself and keep myself informed.Of course, we can’t take these guys’ recommendations literally because they necessarily benefit from making these videos, otherwise why would they make them?
I love Steve Guttenberg’s musical choices and colorful shirts but he obviously is just a very sophisticated saleman.I love Steve Huff’s sound room where you see the nature outside, but he changes his reference equipment so often and uses so many superlatives that he discredits himself.I like A British Audiophile for his professionalism and because he’s down to earth, but his reference equipement is limited.I also like the young Jay’s iyagi because his enthusiasm reminds me of the wonder I had when I first became interested in audio, 40 years ago... I rarely listen to the others for different reasons.Some don’t have the required experience, others have questionable credentials, and some are just buffoons.
When I’m interested in audio equipment, I first read online magasines like The Absolute Sound, 6 Moons (and a few others)... then I read ALL the threads on Audiogon... some of our members haveknowledge which far exceeds what can be found on YT and the specialized press.Before purchasing my DAC and my integrated amp, I spent hundreds of hours reading on this forum and, in both cases, I wasn’t disappointed with my purchases.
if i could had listen before buying i would have done it...
I dont propose statistical analysis of users are the only and main tool to choose component...
Seeing them and listening them in some context is important...
For example my last purchase upgrade cost me 250 bucks in return fees, if i could have listen to it BEFORE buying i would have not purchase it and spare my money... Happily there was a good retrurn policy...
I had no other choices...
And i never proposed others people to restrict their choices...
I just explained how to do if you dont have the possibility to compare gear and listening to it...
Vintage components and users analysis not reviewers was very good for me...
But it is not possible for all components and in all cases...
Not all people are able to listen to gear BEFORE buying...
Well, OK -- Not all people are willing to restrict their choices to what’s available from online sellers that offer return policies.
There are good reasons for this -- in the case of floorstanding speakers that are very expensive to ship back, for example. And, of course, these sellers typically only offer certain brands up to a certain price point. Those who prefer other brands and/or higher priced gear will naturally look elsewhere. This is all very sensible.
Having said that, there is still a lot (!) of gear available from such sellers!
If others are able to make buying choices that yield long-term satisfaction based upon dealer showroom demos or trade shows, I salute them.
For those who opt to make component and stand-mount speaker buying decisions based upon how a piece sounds to their ears, as part of their system, in their room, and whose budgets are a good fit, choosing from what is offered by TMR, Music Direct, Audio Advisor, Upscale Audio, etc. can be a very sensible approach.
Not all people are able to listen to gear BEFORE buying...
Well, OK -- Not all people are willing to restrict their choices to what’s available from online sellers that offer return policies.
There are good reasons for this -- in the case of floorstanding speakers that are very expensive to ship back, for example. And, of course, these sellers typically only offer certain brands up to a certain price point. Those who prefer other brands and/or higher priced gear will naturally look elsewhere. This is all very sensible.
Having said that, there is still a lot (!) of gear available from such sellers!
If others are able to make buying choices that yield long-term satisfaction based upon dealer showroom demos or trade shows, I salute them.
For those who opt to make component and stand-mount speaker buying decisions based upon how a piece sounds to their ears, as part of their system, in their room, and whose budgets are a good fit, choosing from what is offered by TMR, Music Direct, Audio Advisor, Upscale Audio, etc. can be a very sensible approach.
But we cannot buy some component based on one or two reviewers...Even those we appreciated...
Myself i picked average users opinion in a statistical take and reading under the line...It is the reason why i bought vintage products... New hyped one had no long term many users reviews...
Not all people are able to listen to gear BEFORE buying...
I like Zero Fidelity, Steve Huff, and Andrew Robinson quite a bit. Probably because of the entertainment/enjoyment factor of their reviews. I will say that I have tried gear they have reviewed and their reviews match what I heard. I'm not embarrassed to say, I bought my amp and speakers based off of Andrew Robinson reviews.
Appreciate the creative replies! I'm not knocking working people, and all these guys are working it. Just trying to state the obvious. There is much more to audiophilia than piling a bunch of gear into the corner of an apartment, or a three season porch, and claiming to be an authority (or not). I don't know the pay scale.
I don't have the space to conduct what I would consider fair reviews (better than what I've seen on discussed videos most of the time) and we can all agree that you get to understand your room over time. Understanding what makes our room sing is a huge part of the learning that takes place as an audiophile.
In my opinion the experience of this group (you) count much more (10%) than media reviews (3%) but sure- some are interesting to watch. Some of you are totally off your rocker 100%, but in general, in my 20 years on this site, I feel like most of you are true to your word and "in it" to share something genuine. We all sell what we own lol.
Service Merchandise started as a five-and-dime in 1934. The systems are all vintage at this point.
Spiritual music category?- You all know this, but sound is a wave, a vibration, and we all have a frequency that we vibrate at. Is it from here that we pick up the frequencies we jive with? We can get at it faster with vinyl lol.
I don't know who you are watching but there are severalYouTube reviewers I follow who have about 200,000 or more subscribers and get thousands even tens of thousands of views for each video.
I remain baffled how these guys can do so much work to put the videos together when they only get a couple thousand views. They make no money from YouTube.
And they crank out so many 15 minute videos with their crazy long extended intros and if you have the patience to watch the entire video most of the time there’s nothing to be learned. No one ever explains the technical merits of gear they’re talking about. How is one supposed to learn when they watch these videos.
Yeah I wish I had $350,000 Wilson speakers. And clearly they are paying for them, if it all, its at a substantial substantial discount. If I was Wilson why not give them on loan to a well followed video person the for a while. If purchased I’m sure they’re being tax deducted, which means everybody’s paying for those speakers.
The economics escapes my tiny mind. Actually I’m losing interest in all these videos anyway. It’s a complete waste of time to watch them.
As always, buyer beware. I listen to YouTube reviewers primarily for entertainment but also to find about gear that I never would have heard about otherwise. I do listen to suggestions and have acted upon them in the past. Demoed totem tribe towers due to several enthusiastic reviews. I wound up passing on them. I bought a pair of highly praised speakers but they had a 60 day return window. I returned them. My ears always have the final word.
well just in case i didn't make myself clear i said i don't trust them not i don't like them and gave my input to go and listen for yourself it seems like good advice I've read about the toxic chat rooms on these forums and i believe it
If you don't like the YouTube reviewers, start your own channel instead of complaining about people who did - I'm sure it would be far superior to the ones you don't like....
what i can say is i will never trust a you tube reviewer i will go to a dealer or trade show at least before i buy a speaker again
these kind of purchases are highly subjective so when Ron at new record day recommended a open baffle loudspeaker i decided to give them a chance luckily they had a return policy at my expense i might add the speakers were so bad i couldn't believe it anyhow i learned a valuable lesson after that
Their usefulness is delivering official specs, appearence and details about the products...
Their opinion generally have no value...Those honest dont accept to write about a product they dont like... And they speak about all products they dont dislike in a neutral way generally...
Imagine one of them writing a review about a product of a young company and imagine he destruct it in his review.... What could be the consequences ? This does not happen often and there is a reason why : responsability...
The opposite is possible and way more frequent , the worst product i ever listened to was a product i bought 10 years ago after reading a positive review of this horrible headphone amplifier...
What could i write if i was a reviewer ? Nothing i would have never write anything about this junk...
Imagine the responsability if i do write a destructive review corresponding to my impression ... I will never wrote the review but i bought this product because a reviewer wrote very positively about it... My friend bought it too... We sold it on the spot after few minute listenings and laughing about our credulity in reading reviews ... 😊
Experienced owners reviews matter way more ....They had skin in the game... They paid the product and dont borrow it to sell it with their words...
All relatively low cost products i bought after pro reviewers opinions were an error i regretted...
All products i bought after inquiring their many owners opinions on the net or informal reviews i never regretted...I statiscally compared them to make my mind... I bought my best components this way... No regrets ever... Only pure joy ...
In an earlier posting above, a person stated that there never is a negative review in Audiophile magazines. Not true. Example: In Stereophle Magzine (4/5/92), Corey Greenberge gave the "Scientific Fidelity Tesla Speaker" a negative review. Scientic Fidelity never recovered and went out of buisness.
Honestly, it's 99.9% crap but in that 0.1% you find the gems or at least someone with the same tastes as you. Just today I ran across a video of restoring a not particularly audiophile product but when he took the cover off, I thought, you know, a not bad slim amplifier, and went through his procedures to bring it up to speed in a smart, concise way. I enjoyed it immensely.
we must LEARN how to listen.... Nobody is born with it ... Ask to an acoustician and to a musician..
Then when we had learned how to listen and we perceive acoustic aspects of the sound experience , then , only then , are we able to make the most of a receiver or of an high end costly piece...
Anybody can hear didfferences, what we must learn is how to make this perceived differences meaningful and useful in the embeddings process of an audio system..
And how do you know a component sound better ? is it because of his price tag or is it because you are trained well enough to embed it in the right electrical,mechanical and acoustical conditions ?
I call that learning how to listen... It does not matter if you use a Pioneer receiver or the Ferrari of amplifier instead , you will be able to get the best of what you have and never be frustrated ... Thats was my point and you dont figured it out... 😊
Money dont create audiophile experience, acoustic may do it and did...learn it to know what the audiophile vocabulary means at least... And acoustic is not buying bass traps or ready made panels by the way...It is a bit more... 😁
“It seems most people will never get that audio is not about the gear pieces but about how to learn to listen...”. IMO, if you know how to listen, you would know that the better equipment makes a bigger difference in sound quality! It’s like taking a Honda accord to the racetrack. Even if you are the best driver in the world, you will not beat a rookie in a F1 car.
If you have a pioneer receiver, I don’t care how you listen, the sound quality will be crap. If you truly know how to listen, you will hear differences in cables, room treatment, different price ranges of amps, dacs, preamps, etc… But hey, if you can’t hear the difference between entry level equipment and the better higher end equipment, that’s cool, you just saved yourself some money. Me, I’ll spend the money on better equipment to get the best sq I can for the money invested, same goes for cars, homes, appliances, we’ll just everything
Caveat emptor, let the buyer be ware. One guy I saw is partnering with manufacturers. No bias here folks, move along. It runs the gambit. Some have decades of experience, Guttenberg for instance, but he likes just about everything. Vandersteen 2's are dull/warm as hell, he loves em, Zu speakers are super detailed from what I hear, he loves them. Him loving anything tells me very little. My opinion, if you don't know my prejudices, is completely worthless to you. I Holtz and Cordsman(sp?) were the only 2 reviewers I used to pay attention to. Others may be even better, but how do I know that? It's a crap shoot. Heck, even if you and X agree on everything, whose to say that X won't change what he is looking for? Did he move from a castle to a former funeral home with heavily passed floors? Or got into economic trouble and started taking bribes? Sorry, I wish it wasn't so.
“It seems most people will never get that audio is not about the gear pieces but about how to learn to listen...”. IMO, if you know how to listen, you would know that the better equipment makes a bigger difference in sound quality! It’s like taking a Honda accord to the racetrack. Even if you are the best driver in the world, you will not beat a rookie in a F1 car.
If you have a pioneer receiver, I don’t care how you listen, the sound quality will be crap. If you truly know how to listen, you will hear differences in cables, room treatment, different price ranges of amps, dacs, preamps, etc… But hey, if you can’t hear the difference between entry level equipment and the better higher end equipment, that’s cool, you just saved yourself some money. Me, I’ll spend the money on better equipment to get the best sq I can for the money invested, same goes for cars, homes, appliances, we’ll just everything
Like many here I enjoy Paul McGowan, Darko, Thomas & Stereo (despite the Chifi hype).
Here's one that pisses most people here off: OCDHiFiGuy He's more than irritating and may be bipolar but he has said some really profound things that turned out to be true. His bashing the ARC Ref 750 hit a nerve!
As with anything, take the opinion of others with a grain of salt. Only your preferences matter, not someone else's subjective thoughts based on their listening environment with their components. Just my two cents worth....
And because i dont focus on selling gear pieces i will never create a youtube channel...
I am interested by music ... Sound is my past history... I already created my room and after that my headphone system... I dont want nor need to focus on gear... It is marketing not acoustic...
I don't know about 'focusing' on gear prices, but I always hope the reviewer says how much something costs, because many of them do not. I wonder why people who complain about reviewers so much don't start their own YouTube channel? Show 'em how it's done!
I don't know about 'focusing' on gear prices, but I always hope the reviewer says how much something costs, because many of them do not. I wonder why people who complain about reviewers so much don't start their own YouTube channel? Show 'em how it's done!
I have watched few utubers. I found it somewhat unproductive relative to the time dedicated to it. But I can understand why it's attractive to some and for them I would suggest that they not abandon 'critical analysis' when watching. I think that like the magazines, much of what they convey which might be negative is opaque. What I missed most was a lack of meaningful context.
If you look at a lot of youtube reviewers, you quickly find out who knows what they are talking about and whether they offer any worthwhile advice.
Here is what I think -
Ignore anything by Amir of ASR because he is biased, and basically promotes his own views to promote his site and satisfy his minions rather than to provide sensible advice.
The following are worth listening to in my opinion, however there are others:
Streaky
Hans Beekhuyzen
Darko
Steve Huff
Andrew Robinson.
Pursuit of Perfect sound
A number of German reviewers, who really are excellent, but you need to speak German
I’ve been watching audio related YouTube reviewers for the last 6 years. Honestly it was Paul McGowan that I started watching and over the years, I’ve subscribed to all on the above list and even personally (and virtually) got to know some of them.
Then I took a crack at creating content on YouTube 4 years ago. I am not a reviewer and clearly state it on my channel. I don’t believe in all the flowery Harry Pearson Audio Adjectives. But I have my very crude & lude way of scaling equipment on how it sounds, and my excitement of either owning, or being loaned certain gear.
Ron Brenay was a big help to me and more importantly Randy. While I don’t agree with 90% of his YT content or Steve Guttenburg for that matter. I still watch both like a crack addict waiting for my weekly/daily fix.
My channel is small but the others on the list work hard at maintaining content and even making a living. I think they should be paid to do reviews IMHO. It’s a lot of work and getting greased to do it is a good thing provided they aren’t being positive about some or all aspects of the gear they review.
I’ve had one pair of Speakers that cost $6k that I had a hard time dialing in without adding some miniDSP to fix room interactions between the Speakers and my room (both to blame actually).
I had a Tube Integrated that wasn’t up to snuff and actually had some IP issues so I killed that review.
As much of an Orchard Audio fanboy that I am. I blew up 2 pairs of the little StarKrimson’s that came out 4 years ago. I was not a happy camper and mentioned it in one of my Video’s. Then the Ultra came out, everything wrong about the previous Amp was fixed plus double output and Tons of protection. I was pissed but then I bought 5 Ultra modules and powered them with Toroidal + beefy filter caps. Old School meets New School.
I’m a PS Audio Fanboy and that’s purely Paul McGowan’s fault. Andrew is #1 for a reason and I like Kristie & his style of reviewing.
YouTube & Social Media in general is how one sells equipment nowadays with in home trials and online sales. There are good brick & morter stores around but everything I’ve bought is gently used because I couldn't afford these items bought at a Dealer or online.
I still subscribe to Stereophool , Sound & Vision, & The Absolute Sound. delivered to my Zinio account. I miss Audio Magazine, Stereo Review, Sound & Vision (Canada), Audio Ideas Guide, & UHF. I subscribe to HiPig, Darko’s mag., SECRETS of Home Theater and High Fidelity, & Soundstage Network.
When you are in awe with your own system , you dont need entertainment, you listen music for the first time in your life , nobody has ever experienced it save me ?
i dont read audio review anymore except sometimes one recommended here , by curiosity, because i love people here and what they recommend , thats all... The last one i really read and study was Dr.Choueri BACCH filters acoustic revolution... There is nothing else to read for me... All the rest is marketing, honest one , at best ... But i dont need to upgrade ...Then ... I read my friends here and i listen music...
It’s all entertainment, whether it’s reading a magazine, or watching a YouTube video. It’s like reading the car magazines, none of us are ever going to buy the $5 million McLaren car, but it’s fun to Hugo and read the specs.
There is a channel called the audio analyst, and this guy has got to be the best technician I've ever heard. He's a really smart guy and a superb reviewer of high-end high-quality components. He really seems to know what he's talking about.
By listening to him, you truly appreciate how complex audio issues are. He does a great job and is very gifted at explaining things. A very credible individual.
Yet mysteriously he doesn't have a large following versus the rest of the audio YouTube channels.
I think it's profoundly sad that YouTube reviewers fail to really discuss the merits of the quality audio gear they may be reviewing. What makes audio gear better than others. There a profound differences between audio gear pieces it would be nice to learn more about this.
For example, jays listening room YouTube channel probably has the most expensive gear of all the YouTube channels and yet all he does is set it up in his room and we're supposed to be awestruck. He doesn't discuss the merits of the gear and why it might be better and I don't even think he understands technical aspect of what he's got. He's not alone.
It's profoundly sad the level of expertise that's out there that only finds its way onto this forum. Which is a great thing, although, Many of the posters herein are exceptionally bright people and they should consider doing some YouTube channels to explain things.
FWIW, here is the list of the on-line reviewers ordered by the number of subscribers. It does not suggest the quality of contents they have presented but give you some idea on their popularity. The ones highlighted are those I listen periodically. Some of their verbal description of the gears' sound traits they review are spot on. Some often gave measurements and how that entails to the actual sound. Some gave rather technical details to the components under the hood. I appreciate the time and effort they have put together for each show.
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