Another post about a streamer upgrade

forgot to mention I’m using the Innuos Pulse Mini with the 80watt version of the LHY power supply, the LPS80VA available from Vinshine ... 12V/5A

and the Ifi Zen Stream with the 25watt version of the LHY supply, LPS25VA....12V/2A

The Innuos Pulse Mini looks a decent candidate.

@jerrybj  I agree, especially as you already have a Pardo LPS.  I’ve seen a few reports where owners said the Zen Mini with an external LPS rivals the sound of the Zen, and it’s likely the Pulse Mini will sound even better.  Best of luck.

@j_andrews 

Thanks for posting your impressions. The streamer quality does matters and most folks here would be open to exploring better sound experience just like you did! 

I agree with you on JPLAY app, it’s a really nice app, well laid out and offers seamless Qobuz integration. Your assessment of Innuous is also spot on, while I enjoyed Innuos well rounded sound, I found it to be bit on darker side for my preferences. 

Reporting back here on this thread that I started a few months ago.

I 'upgraded' from an Ifi Zen Stream streamer to the Innuos Pulse_Mini streamer.

I had been experiencing really annoying user interface issues with the Ifi and although it sounded good to my ears within my relatively modest system, I assumed and expected another streamer up the chain to bring audible improvements as well.  
Regarding the user interface issues, I tried various solutions, including the JPLAY app...which is a really good product btw.

After getting the Innuos, I committed to just spending time with it and getting to know it ...and the Sense app.

After spending 3 months with it, I will say this.  Yes there is a different sound, a different presentation...and most would probably say it's 'better' than the Ifi, but I guess I'd chalk it up to more of a flavor.

There is a density and darkness to the Innuos that is rounder and deeper....I think it's probably more natural sounding than the Ifi....although maybe less incisive or spicy.  I've grown used to it and now that I'm living in 2 places, I have two set ups... One has the Ifi Zen Stream and the other has the Innuos Pulse mini.  

The systems are different...so impossible do a direct comparison ..but I will say that in my apartment in the city, I'm now very much enjoying my original Ifi Zen Stream hooked up to a Border Patrol se-i DAC going into a Belles Audio Aria pre/power combo feeding Falcon ls3/5a's.  Pretty compelling fidelity that is both direct and detailed and dynamic but also relaxed and natural.

The Ifi is being controlled by the JPLAY app and accessing Qobuz.

The Pulse Mini is feeding a Van Alstine tube pre / s.s. power amp combo driving Fritz Carbon's .  There's more meat on the bones in that system. I feel you can reach in deeper to the stereo image being presenting and there is more texture with this set up...I assume a lot of that has to do with the Innuos but also the Fritz speakers.

This is all to say, that system matching can really help balance things out and right now enjoying both setups. 

I'm not 100% into the Sense app.  It's good but I find it a little laggy sometimes and I think the JPLAY app is a slightly better interface.  That said, the Sense app is written specifically for Innuos products.

I am in a similar position with my desire to upgrade.

Currently have a Project Stream Box S2 Ultra streamer, run on a Teddy Pardo MiniTeddy LPS. Mad Scientist Black Magic Ultra power cable, and SR Orange fuse.

Will be looking on the used market, around the $750-$1500 mark. Smaller footprint a advantage. Certainly would like a step up, rather than a step sideways.

The Innuos Pulse Mini looks a decent candidate. The Aurender a bit too pricey to import for me. I have no need for an inbuilt Dac, so probably not the Eversolo. Anything else you know of?

At some stage I'll get to using Roon.

"There reaches a point where spending more money may yield only marginal or imperceptible improvements in audio quality, hence the concept of diminishing returns."

"My previous set up was pretty good even using a computer as the source. The difference with the $12k of equipment isn’t that big. Now there is some break in and I can hear that the sound is more open and seems to be improving a bit as it is breaking in but I’m not sure I would do this upgrade again for the money. Maybe my system is good but not good enough to justify the new units. Sometimes being happy with what you got is the best bet."

We all know over 3/4 of the population would much rather go on a trip to _______ than spend 12K on their hifi. Life choices. 

@steakster

Who did I insult and how exactly?

I acknowledged that this thread shifted into a predictable back and forth between those who perceive meaningful differences from certain equipment and those that think those perceptions are imagined. It’s simply an observation. All you have to do to is go through the Digital topic section of this forum to see it happen over and over.

@lanx0003 I will report back ..thanks for the suggestion.

I hope to hear some improvements in my system but won’t know until I spend some time with it. I definitely hope the user interface is an improvement. I think many on this thread who have invested in their hifi setups would still agree with your statement below.

"There reaches a point where spending more money may yield only marginal or imperceptible improvements in audio quality, hence the concept of diminishing returns."

It’s not exactly a radical stance.

“the human psyche has an infinite capacity for self delusion”

one of my favorite aphorisms.  we convince ourselves of a narrative and twist everything around us to fit that narrative.  The op had already decided that he wanted  a pulse mini, and went ahead and purchased it while we were trying to help him decide how to proceed.  and then the op seemed surprised that there was an active discussion going on around the topic he raised a couple days ago.  i feel so used! (lol!)

Try to compare the Innous Pulse mini with Ifi zs to justify the statement below.  Please report back on what you found.  I would say, in general, more expensive streamers have better power supply, circuit design and parts / components and therefore would sound better.  However, it's essential to note that the improvements in sound quality might not always justify the price difference. There reaches a point where spending more money may yield only marginal or imperceptible improvements in audio quality, hence the concept of diminishing returns.

I also don’t believe the people on this board who’ve listened to a lot of digi gear are all convincing themselves that a more expensive piece sounds better than a cheap one … so seeking some collective wisdom is one part of my gathering information.

@ j_andrews:  congrats you’ve taken a step in the direction important to you.  If you’re like me and many others on this forum it will be the first step of many.  Enjoy the ride.

@j_andrews 

two big add-ons: use a Pinkfaun Isolator into the Pulse and insert a Singxer UIP1 Pro with a decent 6V LPS berween Pulse and Dac; you‘ll be pleasantly surprised.

Sounds like you will really enjoy Roon. Give it a whirl. And congrats on the streamer purchase!!!

Wow

Thanks a lot for all who have responded 

Seems like some of this thread has taken the predictable turn of people stating digital is all the same and those who feel that improvements come with better engineering.

I’m personally in the latter camp but also believe that ones system and room need to be resolving enough to give the benefits of a better streamer.

My system is pretty modest and I’m not looking for the last percentage points of detail when I listen to music.  But, there’s no harm in wanting the best sounding stereo for one’s particular budget.

for those who have asked me what I’m missing with my current streamer…. It’s not really a fair question.  The Ifi Zen Stream with a lps and some network filtering can sound pretty good.  I haven’t been suffering through listening to streamed music. But I also suspect it can be a bit better.  I’ve compared a decent cd transport and dac to the Ifi zen stream and same dac and felt that sometime one was better than the other.. and vice versa.  That said, in general, broad strokes… I tend to perceive more density and solidity when listening to the cd transport.

I also don’t believe the people on this board who’ve listened to a lot of digi gear are all convincing themselves that a more expensive piece sounds better than a cheap one … so seeking some collective wisdom is one part of my gathering information.

I’ve mentioned the user interface is important for me… I wouldn’t say that is trumping sound quality but certainly should be right up there with it in terms of importance … for instance, I can’t use M-connect … it’s maddening.  And definitely can’t use the Ifi interface.

Since starting this thread, I’ve purchased a previously owned Innuos PulseMini.  Seems like the logical step up from the Ifi. I’ll experiment with putting a good lps on it and listening to it through three different dacs. (Border Patrol se-i, Ares ii and a 30-year old CAL sigma ii)

Really looking forward to getting into the Sense app.  But, given my desire for more info on the recordings and quality liner notes, my next step may be a Roon trial. We’ll see how Sense goes first.

lastly , if anyone is looking for a quality interface which works with a lot, but not all, streaming setups, the JPLAY app is a very nice experience.

thanks

ghdprentice

5,843 posts

01-09-2024 at 09:53am 

@benanders

I’m glad you are curious. But we are not working on graduate degrees here (which btw I have). Those of us with lots of experience are trying to help those with less to effectively navigate this extremely complex landscape and avoid wasting enormous amount of time and money. 
 

Okay @ghdprentice . Thread’s yours, bud. 🤣

Care to oblige OP as to whether quality of streamer OS / user apps also scale predictably with unit price? Software was supposed to be the lion’s share of this topic.

Oh one additional detail..,Auralic Aries G1 wasn’t hardwired to network. 

I would also like to add a DAC, well At least the section that takes the input and streams that data to the DAC chip. At which point, once it reaches the analog section it ceases to be a streamer because it passes the analog signal to the output RCA or XLR that feed the amplifier. 

Ok. Everything is a streamer - your ISP, your router, your mesh network if that’s what you’re using, your roon core and your streamer.
You’re 100% correct. And jitter exists between each of these communication points.

I hereby (gently) invalidate the test that I had conducted. 😂

@audphile1 

Again, I apologize for any confusion but isn’t the data stream from a Roon core to a streamer (or dac) a digital data stream?  And if it is, isn’t that a potential source of jitter?  You’re right that the link I included had a different setup from yours, but the point was that the data stream from the Nucleus included jitter, but at a substantially lower level than if a pc (e.g., a Mac Mini) had been used.  And that is completely consistent with a huge number of comments I’ve read from Roon users, and I believe Roon itself - that they hear a “substantial” improvement in sound quality between using Roon on a pc vs a dedicated core (e.g., Nucleus, or, in my case, a Small Green Computer). 

In summary, I was trying to (gently) suggest that perhaps your test between Auralic and Roon was a test where the Roon side was decidedly suboptimal.  No offense intended, and of course, I could be completely misguided.

@mdalton no. The steamer is what is connected to the DAC.
The Mac Mini in my example is just a Roon core that sends the data feed to the streamer, via network. The streamer is connected to the DAC.
For the mac mini to be considered a streamer it would have to be connected to the DAC directly via USB without a dedicated streamer in between. Not sure where the gap is in this communication. The review you’re linking to talks about testing roon nucleus as a streamer via its USB out. But that’s not my configuration. 

@audphile1 

Thanks, very helpful, but not sure I understand your response.  I’m not highly technical, but my understanding is that a Roon core, even if not used as streamer, is essentially a digital transport, and therefore is virtually by definition a potential source of jitter.  Here’s another link to an evaluation of a Roon nucleus, showing it as a source of jitter, but substantially less than a pc.  Am I missing something here?

@mdalton I was using mac mini as roon core only. Not a streamer. The comparison was done using auralic with lightning ds vs Auralic as roon end point.
There’s no jitter. Just different way of processing the stream by the Auralic.

@benanders

I’m glad you are curious. But we are not working on graduate degrees here (which btw I have). Those of us with lots of experience are trying to help those with less to effectively navigate this extremely complex landscape and avoid wasting enormous amount of time and money. 

“There are a lot of variables. The unfortunate truth in this hobby is that everything matters and as you go up the ladder it matters even more. Synergy is key though, so trying and listening for yourself to see what works in your system the best approach.”

@audphile1 Well said!

Assuming high quality analog components and DAC already in place and optimized, how digital bits delivered to your DAC plays a significant role. A well designed streamer elevates and recreates more intimacy with music.

Unless one had an opportunity to try a better streamer, you honestly don’t know what you’ve been missing all along!

@audphile1 

Hey, appreciate your perspective, but were you using a Mac Mini as your Roon Core?  Are you sure what you weren’t hearing wasn’t simply high jitter from your PC?  Check out the links I sent in earlier posts to see how high the levels of jitter are from a pc vs. a well-designed streamer.

@mdalton yes nothing beats roon from the UI / UX and features standpoints.
However, one important note - with some streamers their proprietary UI/software forces the streamed files to take a certain path that involves extra processing such as caching (not buffering) and other tasks that might result in better sound compared to using the streamer as a Roon end point.
One example is Auralic Aries streamers. The Auralic Lightning DS sounded significantly better to me than Roon and I actually ended up pausing my Roon subscription. I had renewed it when I switched over to Lumin where I heard virtually no difference and the Lumin app was driving me crazy.

There are a lot of variables. The unfortunate truth in this hobby is that everything matters and as you go up the ladder it matters even more. Synergy is key though, so trying and listening for yourself to see what works in your system the best approach. 

Here’s another site that seems to do a decent job of evaluating streamers more objectively.  

To be clear, I’m not a pure objectivist by any stretch - after all , I’m primarily a tube and vinyl guy! - but I do think that in the digital realm, particularly before the conversion to analog, objective measures can tell you an awful lot about what’s going on.  

Full disclosure: I am highly skeptical of the claims made by the high $ server/streamer /DAC combos out there in the marketplace.  Which is why I’ve gone the following route:  (1) Roon with Quobuz; (2) Roon server: Small Green Computer w/4tb drive for burned CD collection; (3) Gold Note DS10 as streamer/dac in system #1; (4) Pro-ject S2 Ultra as streamer feeding Topping E70 in system#2; (5) Okto DAC8 w/RPi installed as streamer/DAC in system #3; and (6) iFi Zen Stream feeding iFi Zen Signature v.2 DAC in system #4.  I also use a Bluesound Node and Sonos Amp in two other non-audiophile systems.  The point is they all work seamlessly with Roon thru my home network; in all but one case, I’m using wifi without any problems.  Last point I’ll make is that I’ve seen alot of negative comments regarding the iFi app, but if you’re using Roon, you bypass that potential weakness.  

I find the streamer can make a very big difference if you also have a great dac and overall system. I own the Tron Atlantic Sig dac and after hearing several streamers in my system priced from $1200 to $7900 I can confidently say streamers matter in high end systems. The improvement in sound quality does not take a back seat to any other upgrades I have made over the years. Again, my comments are based on having all pieces in your Hifi system of high quality including all cabling.

Even upgrading from an Innuos Zenith 3 to Pulsar was a very obvious increase in sound quality and overall system performance.  

As the conversation continues about quality streamers and whether it’s advisable, logical to upgrade it’s fair to ask how many dealers are posting because of the chance of a big sale. Let’s face it- many here can get stuck on the idea they have to upgrade, spend more money and the first salesman in line can get that sale.

@dz13 that is some great feedback and fruit for thought. 

I do think the OP's feelings about which brands to upgrade to are good thinking. After doing a little research and listening to a couple I feel an Innous will be my next step up. I've only been into digital streaming maybe 2 1/2 to 3 years now. I came into this media thinking all digital transports would sound the same. Seemed logical at the time, it's only transferring a digital signal and any jitter should be easily dealt with by any newer decent dac. Yet in my personal subjective opinion this doesn't hold true. I've tried upwards of 10 different "budget" streamers searching for the best SQ on the cheap. Most of them in that range do sound similar to me when used as a transport only..but there are differences in my opinion. Either in sound quality, darkness of background, or soundstage and imaging. Subtle differences in the budget category. 

I'm familiar with the OP's Zen Stream. I've owned it twice now, both times giving it the boot due to the laggy and shaky software. The reason I went back to it a second time is I feel it has good SQ.. especially for the money. With LPS I liked it better than more expensive streamers I've tried. One streamer I've liked just as much or actually more is the Primare Prisma. I picked one up second hand and have been very happy with it. 5volt power supply that can be upgraded. I prefer Quboz as well and use Chromecast. I've used Chromecast in the past with my Cambridge CXN2, Arcam Sa30 & later with the ST60. I preferred the sound of the Prisma when using CC. Just my personal preference though, could be different for everyone. 

I only mention this because if it is just the software of the Zen Stream you would like to change then a Primare can help in that regard with Quboz, but also keep the type of sound quality you are use to. Maybe a side move with subtle differences but I do like using CC now. Prisma has set backs though like everything. No USB. Chromecast is topped at 24/96khz. I found that to be no issue. Actually instead of going bit perfect native I upsample everything to 24/176 with the Prisma. Just sounds better to me..I dk why. No software issues though. 

I've never tried an Eversolo or the Halo Red..a couple of the "budget/mid level" types that seem to get good reviews. I also think stepping up to the likes of Aurender or Innous, just to name a couple, will give you the upgrade that you are looking for. Or switching to Roon might be something you would like as well. Better functionality it seems...better than using the Zen Stream native app I'm sure. One thing that was already mentioned..make sure your Dac is up to par before buying a big dollar streamer. Unless you are looking at one with built-in dac. Good luck.  

Just stepping in for my two cents on the issue.

I was streaming (just AppleMusic) from a computer through an ifi iDSD to my integrated tube amp on my main system. I had a Bluenote X on my secondary system. I got a T+A 200 Dac mostly in trade and then went for the Aurender N200.

Now the Dac and the Aurender is essentially $12k of equipment. I think the biggest thing the OP needs to think about is how resolving his system is. The OP doesn’t say what else he has in his system (amp/preamp/speakers/dac etc).

My previous set up was pretty good even using a computer as the source. The difference with the $12k of equipment isn’t that big. Now there is some break in and I can hear that the sound is more open and seems to be improving a bit as it is breaking in but I’m not sure I would do this upgrade again for the money. Maybe my system is good but not good enough to justify the new units. Sometimes being happy with what you got is the best bet.

There are plenty of midlevel streamers including Innuos (which @soix recommends) and others that will probably make the OP very happy.

@benanders I’m totally cool with your stance on this.
Let’s not highjack this thread. 
Enjoy the music!

HifiNews does a good job of measuring differences accross streamers, focusing primarily on jitter.  Of course, different dacs do a better - or worse - job than others of handling jitter from a streamer, and they show that as well. 

“I suspect that doing the hard work of really testing things and eliminating variable is time consuming and onerous. And not as fun.”

@hilde45 

Agreed on process being time consuming and requiring considerable efforts but that’s what makes this hobby so much fun. My current system is the culmination of lot of trials and tribulations over last 7 plus years. 

Good luck with your journey! 

@audphile1 thanks, indeed the source of my skepticism over broad applicability of the stance that greater cost = greater quality: there’s no robust study to support this, just many anecdotes and opinions. That will not change until design schematics / fabrication costs vs. fabrication / transportation costs are made available for low end to high end streamers. Until then, no evidence of streamer quality scaling linearly, or otherwise, with price.

Now to be extra clear, again, that’s not me saying “absence of evidence [of a difference in sound between streamers] = evidence of absence [of said difference in sound between streamers].” Anyone who suggests that is as unscientifically anchored as one who touts an opinion as evidence.

@ghdprentice thanks, conversely, I’m not sure you understand what “logic” would be in this case. I’m not looking to offend but rather clarify. Logic would have your reasoning based on evidential support, something that can be replicated by others. IOW, describe the process, not the pattern. The pattern is spend more and more and more money, hear more and more and more difference. Never mind the tangle from bias - the assumption most other folks will, too, is the issue. Your anecdotal experiences, numerous and over years, are still not robust enough to constitute the next guy’s predictable experience should that person try to replicate them. Consequently, your suggestion that your impressions are transferable is not particularly sound (pun!), but it’s an Internet forum so type as ya like. I don’t need to elaborate on how the differences between personal experiences and the opinions they help form cannot reliably serve the same purposes as results from a controlled investigation free of bias. But given the latter, it would take just one controlled listener preference study (a real one), similar to those done to greater / lesser extent in amps and speakers. If such an investigation showed linear scaling of preference for streamer brand/model based on unit retail price, the relative lack of testable difference in how digital transports work with what’s downstream of them would quickly become a less relevant hole in general knowledge, and the popular stance on the matter would be supported by more than anecdotal opinion. 
Opinions are fine for individuals, but their transferability to other individuals and situations are simply not predictable. YMMV being the four magic letters when sharing about effects on others’ systems you aren’t familiar with, but of course, that is just my opinion, man ;)

@2psyop and ​​​​@hilde45 I agree - emphasis on the streamer to improve sound quality without even identifying what sound quality “issue” there is, is an inefficient place to exercise one’s upgrade-itis.

Right. That's the point. It's not -- @lalitk  -- a lack of desire for the best performance or being discriminating. Rather, what I've noticed is that people often jump to a "better" product without doing due diligence about where the improvement is needed. Without really taking the time to discern whether a streamer is the answer, I suspect that *some* people just go for product first and then justify it later. And dealers love to affirm that kind of move because they provide the customer with a good feeling (and confirmation bias).

I'm not saying that you did that or that anyone else here did it, but I suspect that doing the hard work of really testing things and eliminating variable is time consuming and onerous. And not as fun.

Again, I’m not saying more expensive streamers can’t be better-sounding. I’m just saying I have never been able to understand the logic for how they offer higher fidelity, in the absence of demonstrated perceptible difference (accounts of satisfied buyer feedback doesn’t count for this in any industry).

@benanders may I recommend you research various design and implementation of streamers and DACs. How each design influences the final product. I mean a thorough research from power supply and inputs to outputs and everything in between. If you’re sitting around twiddling your thumbs and expecting the community in this forum to present their arguments to you trying to prove streamers and cd transports make a difference, you will be wasting everyone’s and your time and effort.

@benanders

You are simply speaking from a lack of experience and a strong unfounded sense of skepticism.

Many of us here have decades of experience in high end audio and have constantly listened to the digital technology as it has developed over the the last thirty plus years. I have listened to streamers on PCs… optimizing them, MacBooks… running on batteries, inexpensive streamers, $3K, $5K, $10K, $13K, and $22K streamers. The thing that absolutely stands out is the sound quality differences… like night and day.

For most of us here our primary concern is sound quality and the big deal is the sound quality of different streamers. While their control apps are a question of convenience. Most get the job done and once learned they are not the primary function.

Sorry you cannot understand the logic. 

Not looking to pot-stir. Just reinstating what general science tells us.

The fallacy of the “weak link” remains a fallacy until there is hard evidence of its existence. That’s what I meant by individuals who seek improvement in various “links” without perhaps understanding how they work and how swapping components may change them. In this (OP) case, a perceived sonic shortcoming was not even described. Based on the OP, a preferable software package x app is what should be the focus of this thread.

However, I am curious why after quite a few years there still seems to be no consumer preference research done in a statistically robust way to demonstrate any difference in how digital data are streamed in a music playback system. 

Bear in mind that’s not me saying a difference couldn’t exist. But where such a difference should not be perceptible to human hearing based on all available (rigorous) info at hand, it seems like a good place to do a consumer preference study, one that would hold up analytically. It would say a lot, but admittedly difference is a two-way street (it can exist or not), and perhaps that’s the scary thing for designers.

All the data centers that house streaming services’ files - how much is the music data degrade before individuals’ in-home systems, by lack of warehouse-scale LPS’s, proper cabling, dedicated processors, etc.? 

Again, I’m not saying more expensive streamers can’t be better-sounding. I’m just saying I have never been able to understand the logic for how they offer higher fidelity, in the absence of demonstrated perceptible difference (accounts of satisfied buyer feedback doesn’t count for this in any industry).

If we don’t query ourselves about what we want out of such toys as music playback systems, then our approach will not be question-driven problem-solving. To me, that sounds like a life about a journey that could get unnecessarily expensive and one in which enough might never be enough. 😉

@lalitk Excellent stance.

The system is only as good as the weakest link in the chain. But people’s values and priorities are personal and differ case by case. Whether someone finds value in investing to improve said weak links is dependent on what the person is attempting to achieve and how important or valuable it is for them to accomplish their goal. 

An audiophile mentor of mine always says, “It’s about the journey, not the destination.”  While there’s always room for improvement, enjoy where you are now and learn everything you can every step of the way. 

“Many people tout expensive streamers but what is really driving that?”

@hilde45
Perhaps a pursuit for no-comprising performance at source. What you should be asking in IMHO, Is your rest of the system is up to snuff to reveal improvements by a well designed streamer or DAC.

The argument “Is it the streamer or the DAC that makes the greatest sound quality difference” is getting quite old. You won’t insert a mediocre preamp ahead of high performance amp and vice versa, right?

The quality of recordings issue is not unique to streaming services. We have endured and experienced these inconsistencies with physical media all along. There are plenty of great sounding recordings available to enjoy streaming at very highest level. One can easily put to rest anxieties such as won’t or can’t possibly make a difference by auditioning a high quality streamer or DAC in your system. Is your rest of the system up to snuff…..only you can answer this question.

@2psyop and ​​​​@hilde45 I agree - emphasis on the streamer to improve sound quality without even identifying what sound quality “issue” there is, is an inefficient place to exercise one’s upgrade-itis.

If the interest is in a seamless user interface, it would be most future-proof to start educating oneself on how straightforward some of the LINUX-based freeware OS’s can be run on a self-assembled system. When a separate DAC is in play, there seems a lot less left for the transport computer to make magic of ;)

Ready-made streamers are great if you can (1) afford and justify them and (2) can try the app out firsthand, preferably in your system, before committing. Paying for a streamer app-unused is not something I’d advocate to someone with specific criteria for how it would preferably run.

@j_andrews I am an authorized Aurender dealer and agree with some of the others. Where I typically will say the N200 is the sweet spot of the Aurender line, the N150 is no slouch and would fit very well with the components you list in your virtual system. One thing I would caution you about, however, is that Aurender warranties are non-transferrable. This is very important to note as they are essentially computers, and as we all know, despite a high level of stability, computers run into problems from time to time. Aurender support is impeccable for those who are covered under warranty. It is still great even those who are not, but owners should be prepared to pay for repairs.

I have a few thoughts that I'll also PM you about now.

Roon will set you free. You can get cheaper, effective streamer options -e.g., iFi Zen, Pro-ject S2 (ultra), Wiim, Raspberry pi, Volumio Rivo, primare rp5, etc. - if you’re not being sold on somebody else’s software (Aurender, Auralic, Lumin, Innuos, etc.).  That also frees you up for an extraordinary number of DAC options.  

If you can stretch a little this Innuos Zen is nice, and you don’t need to upgrade to a linear power supply cause it already has one,  Bonus is you can load any of your prized CDs right into it.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650056614-innuos-zen-mk-3/

@j_andrews  you are correct about the unavailability of the Pulse mini. Two weeks ago, I traded mine in for the Pulse. Called up my dealer if he still had it, and he laughed and said yeah, no. sorry about my incredulous assumptions. I went from Marantz HEOS To the Innuos, the difference was startling And that was before getting the accompanied linear power supply. hopefully you will be able to step up to a nice streamer to see what all the excitement is about.

Look for a used Aurender N200 (can be found for about $4,500 or so) or a used Innuous Zen MKIII (around $2,300) or a Zenith MKIII (around $4,500)......those would be nice upgrades IMO