Am I right for this forum?
I’ve been an Audiogon member for some years now; I remember (fondly) "millercarbon," for example, which will mean something to some of you. And I’ve been a lover of audio equipment since high school—so, for over 50 years (I graduated in 1973). And yet...more and more, I find myself alienated from this forum, even though I do still read it regularly.
I do have what I consider a very "high-fidelity" system. I’ve written a very long account of my "audio journey," complete with many photos, but not "published" it on this site. I’m also a member of our local audio club, which includes several very well-heeled members who have systems costing more than most homes (one of them owns equipment valued at nearly a million dollars, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg: his system is housed in a separate structure purpose-built for it that cost well over a million). I play cello and guitar; my wife plays piano, my daughter piano and violin. We play those instruments in the same room occupied by my main audio system, and so I can attest to the "fidelity" of that system’s reproduction.
And yet...my system cost me less than $3,000 in total. I don’t lust after any particular "upgrade," even though I read reviews and all the many accounts of improvements in "SQ" documented in this forum.
So...am I an "audiophile," or not? Do I belong here, or not?
I’m listening right now to a wonderful bit of Mozart. I also love Tool. And Christy Moore. And Eva Cassidy. And so many others. I agree with Nietzsche: without music, life would be a mistake. But am I an audiophile? Do I belong on this forum?
Any sympathy here? Anyone else feel alienated from the "audiophile community" despite loving the miracle of audio technology?
If we want a healthy forum we must welcome people, listening to them and discussing without sarcasms when it is not necessary ... It is better to be helping , empathic and then we can exhange in good faith ... I like all people here for what they are , music lovers interested by the way a system/room/ ears can give us ectasy...
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No, they’re not extreme comparisons... And i really do have/enjoy a 100 dollar speaker....Actually, it was more like 73 dollars on sale, the Sony SSCS5. It was quite pleasing and enjoyable on its own. At some point, i modded it with the GR kit and that sounded great too. So, you’re not the only one. In other words, I already beat you on price with my 73 dollar speaker!! In fact, i just bought another 100 dollar speaker...the last pair of this 100 dollar unknown Chifi miracle as soon as i read the Amazon reviews. As soon as it gets delivered, I am sure it will sink your speaker (when i upgrade the crossover)! 😏
My 30k TAD also does something good. My 15k Yamaha sounds good too...etc, etc No biggie, whatever "Do i belong?.....Do i not belong?" (facepalm)...
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Whether one is an audiophile or belongs here should be self determined. At present I'm vacillating on whether I consider myself an audiophile anymore. My system is truly finished and I'm not deluding myself on this. I've been through many systems over forty years in this, and I now finally have the sound I always dreamed about, and I'm too old to start over. The thing is my curiosity in regard to new equipment and all the tweaks has diminished to the point I rarely check out audio forums and audio publications. So, I have an audiophile system without the curiosity I previously had. Devoid the curiosity, I'm now doubting I'm an audiophile. My take is an audiophile is one who is part of the audiophile culture. Curiosity born of interest brings you into the audiophile culture, merely having an audiophile system doesn't mean your an audiophile. |
To be fair, people with expensive systems are often a lot less useful here than the ones who have to use their brain and are on a limited budget to put together their rig. (Of course it’s not either or, there are a lot of smart people here with expensive systems, who understand the synergy) In that sense, with my budget, I always get a fair share of practical advice from low budget hackers, geeks (who would not call themselves audiophiles) more so than from people who are obsessed with how much they spent. It’s annoying when someone says "give me speaker advice for a $1000" and the comments are pouring in for price no object, expensive speakers.
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You belong if you want… or not. As for MC ? Small sample juvenile… @danager who are you in real life ?…. my opinion…. it helps to be the SAME person. Stop by, i can feed you anything but a $300 “ Hot Stamper “….. |
In the 90s and the ’00s, I used to buy the most expensive speakers out there. I just didn’t know enough. I used to have one of the original Wilson Wamms, TAD Reference, the top JBL, etc. As I become knowledgeable, I was starting to match or beat the sound of such speakers at much lower prices. For example, a guy who doesn’t know what a Killer sub is or what to do with it will only have sucky sound with a million dollar "full range" speaker, etc, etc. it is just the nature of how speakers work in rooms folks. The only guy who even admits things like that in recent times is Paul McGowan perhaps. I recently sold a 60k Schwikert to fund a 15k Yamaha and will soon get the Borresen X6. Can I eat the Schwikert ’s lunch with a cheaper Yamaha and a Borresen. You bet I can...Did I eat the TAD reference’s lunch with the trickle down TAD E1TX and some killer subs. You bet I did....Did the eat the JBL’s lunch with PA speakers? You bet I did... An audiophile is someone who cares and learns about improving the fidelity of playback, no matter what the budget is...even if it’s a 100 bucks. If his budget is small, he hopefully learns trickle down concepts, knows who the max bang 4 buck designers are (the really smart ones) etc...and gets smarter about purchases than the guys with bottomless pockets. He will also figure out room acoustics hopefully! An audiophile is also a guy who has the humility to constantly learn things and doesn’t sit on a pedestal thinking he’s got it all figured out in life. |
@mahgister ...there's a variant of the FFLS that expands upon it. *S* I'll dredge it up and see if I can get the pdf to stick.... ... even the afflicted can grasp it.... ;) |
The issue is...once a typical audioboo snob goes up in price, he will never look at anything cheaper lest it beat his high price junk, somehow. So, you will never get a fair comparison, feel for what you get as you go up in price on a speaker in the same room with the same electronics. For example, there is the question of at what point is a speaker just getting carried by the electronics? A guy will put a 15k or 5k speaker on 10k, 5k, etc cheaper electronics, a 60k speaker on 40k electronics and so on. He will never give that 15k speaker or a 5k speaker the same chance (i.e put both the 60k speaker and the 15k speaker on the same 40k electronics). And then, he'll claim that the carried 60k speaker beat the 15k speaker or 5k speaker. When you level out the playing field, "interesting" results emerge. It you are in the KC FB group, swing by for a demo/comparison of gear at drastically different price brackets (see what you get as you go up in price or not), some good ol' fashioned myth busting and acquisition of 'disruptive' knowledge. |
@yogiboy how is not showing the system proof that poster never heard XY gear? |
@grislybutter In my post I stated have not heard!! |
I like your opinion and experience a lot ... Thats confirmed my more limited one with the gear ... Thanks
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@danager My question was to …perhaps…get you to compare and contrast the real MC ..label that any way you feel comfortable vs. his online persona… frankly, I have read many of your posts over the time you have been here - they strike me as quite genuine. My apologies are due.. especially as i see your thumb comment…. I find it rude… but i can ignore that going forward. it seems below your intellectual capacity… but i guess… this is the online world… eh ? Lets clear a few things up, in general post count might be best consider over the duration of membership. It’s not a contest…of course i’ve got gear on loan to others - globally. Yes…. we should do our best to host gatherings - including complete strangers - on average I get that done host or travel 2x a month…. yet i aspire to more….. Like i said, visit…. I’m Summers in Seattle. Jim |
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@tvad Ditto to you….. I’m back in California soon…. how bout halfway Java as i’ve got a music buddy to visit in Long Beach to visit ! You are welcome any time. Jim |
@grislybutter , lets reprise that loan next week as i didn’t provide you with the HRS Nimbus couplers, chassis damper block…. and so very critically the NOS Amperex tubes…. Van said it well ; “ No Guru, No Method, No Teacher “….. |
@tomic601 wow :) hope to see you soon, just for the stories alone! |
The reasons I've never posted pics of my system is: a) compaatively speaking, I've never considered it anything to brag about b) I am functionally illiterate as far as internet technology goes, and I don't know how. |
my speakers are modified and go way beyond their price... ! 😊
i would be very thankful if you could give me the name of this chinese speakers you spoke about ... Thanks ..😁😊
Ok it is these one : https://www.amazon.com/SAMTRONIC-Passive-Bookshelf-Speakers-Tweeter/dp/B0CBYVK7Z1
There does not seems to have so much review... And they are passive speakers with ribbon tweeter ... I already go to a deep clear 50 hertz with no boominess at all in the mids and perfect highs natural timbre... my imaging is superb the soundstage include my listening position and exceed way over the speakers space and plane ...I used a tube preamp... I isolate them mechanically with my homemade sandwich of materials ... I used a tuned damping load of concrete on top of them ... I use my own homemade shielding tweaks... I use my own homemade cables enhancement ... I use a tube preamplification with my active speakers..M-audio AV 40... And i used them in their dedicated acoustic corner ... 😊 i modifed the porthole with a complex bundle of various straws of various diameter from few inches to more than three feet behind the port hole ... And i improve the tweeter wave guide ... To beat mine you will pay way more than for those ribbon passive speakers ... And you will do more than changing only the crossover ... Any speakers produce resonance and are very heavily affec ted by vibrations... I did cure the problem and as i said many others homemade recipe ... I even use modified Shumann generators ... Sorry i am not convinced by buying these and plugging them i a wall after crossover change ... Not enough measures in my book .. 😊... But i am pretty sure they can be good by themselves... Chinese engineer do a good job in all case for me... But i never was satisfied by piece of gear not modified including my top headphone i modify also ... Only vibrations and resonance affect all speakers and people dont even know it ... I fine tune damp all the speakers i had used ... Only this change is staggering in his effect ... Add to that all the others...
Most speakers with a porthole are badly designed because it will be too costly to design a good porthole and unesthetical if the labyrinth of tubes is external instead of being inside as with my modification .. Each speaker is an Helmholtz resonator... |
@tomic601...regards to my home ....the more it changes, the more it stays the same.....😏 But most of that I'd recognize likely doesn't exist anymore..... |
@mahgister , You found it! I was mostly just joshing/joking with you on my earlier post. It came in today btw. On these type of cheap chifi speakers, I usually add bracing, put some no-rez (sold by GR) and I will spend a considerable amt of time with the crossover. I have a stock of the good parts GR sells. That’s the extent of it for me, typically. I have tinkered with many similar cheap speakers, amp kits, etc from AliExpress, e-bay, etc. After it meets my fidelity requirements and I don’t feel like dealing with it anymore, I give it away on FB, artist groups, etc ( possibly creates a few new/young ’audiophiles’ or not....but, keeps the audio stuff cluster in my hoarder’s paradise under control). The Sony (sscs5) was one i couldn’t let go of in recent times, especially after I put the GR upgrade on it...that one’s staying for a bit. It seems like you would enjoy some of the content in the diy audio forums. |
I understand why you like to play with the gear...😊 Myself i am not someone who like to play with things at all ... I am more of a books worm... But i get in the obligation to learn about acoustics because i was going nowhere buying audio gear...😁 My 9 headphnes where trash...😁 even after my improving modifications they do not satisfied me ( save the AKG K340 the best headphone ever created probably but even it need my help 😊 ) I disliked even My Tannoy dual gold concentric...Because during the 40 years i owned them i was ignorant of acoustics science basics ... 😁 After reading acoustics books and articles i felt compelled to experiment... I do it full time 2 years because i was retired and i disliked my audio system , nevermind the upgrades... Things improved a lot when i discovered how to decrease vibrations/reasonance, how to shield my gear from the main panel up, when i played with various minerals to use on my connectors, when i experimented with Helmholtz tuned resonators in a specific grid distributed in the room and the right balance of reflection-absorption-diffusion in my room. i used other controversial devices as shumann generator i modified , at the end the same system was so transformed that they were no comparison between before and after... Unlike most people who dream only to buy new gear pieces, i learned how acoustic knowledge improve the gear way much than most upgrades , the only exception will be to go from cheap speakers to way more refine one , but even this upgrade will not compare if you put these speakers in a living room and then in a room dedicated to the speakers specific properties... Acoustic rules for me the rest is marketting mostly ... 😊
Now i own an headphone able to project the soundfield out of my head with deep bass and natural timbre... And the cheapest speakers i ever owned which i disliked for 10 years became my best one AFTER my modifications ...Thanks to Helmholtz...
Then i became a book worm anew, no need to tinker anymore and i can listen music 5 hours a day in sonic heaven ... 😊
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@asvjerry Yes…it has changed…i’ve spent considerable time in LB and assorted zip codes since 1987 mucking about w jets and stuff that goes higher… You are right…changed…. You know IF you get back here Winters, you are welcome. i expect in the future i i shall be blessed to keep a bottle at the Orange Peel in your neck of the woods… i pray that happens… keep being YOU :-) |
@deep_333 ....I've refrained from posting pics since imho most would be bored and unimpressed.... 'SOTA' only in the State Of That Affordable v. Stuff Of Transient Admiration. ;) Due to changes, the space occupied by it, me, and the speaker array has been shrinking due to growth in our company. Since we've a 'live/work' situation, the 'less essential' gives way, the 5 pairs of speakers become a 'fat line array' with the LG 55" betwixt... Ever wall hang a pair of SMGa Maggies' upside down? Since they're not known for their bass qualities, no huge loss.... :) The only pairs (2~3) left to 'roam' (kinda) are the omnis', which vary in intent and their elements......and the driving elements of which, my Gratefully Undead Wall with it's A+D Divide.... "Where the digitals and the analogs play..." I try to enjoy where I happen to be; that which I collect to move that along doesn't absolutely have to be Perfect to make me smile. Overtime, things change, additions, deletions, and the irrational 'fondness' for the concept of 'retirement'.... Long time local biz contact came by to check out some stock logs, asked "So....how'du ya like retirement?" *big G* 😏 "...'Bout the same way you do...'When the *uck does it start?!' " I can relate to Marvin's ("Your Friendly Robot Pal!") lament onboard the Heart Of Gold some dayz...... "Brain the size of a planet....and they have me opening doors...." 🤖😒 |
@tomic601 ... I'll put that on my dance card, but the Pac NW is most likely when we @ AshPlay get a client with taste, money, 'a Vision', mo' money, and a desire to take the Treehouse Master Mob to task.....and even more $s' .... (We'll need someone to shoot vids and droning.....ley lines in the land...*mystic move*....."....always wanted to 'do' a FLW in the trees...." ) We shall Do Better than th' Peel, yezz....but, if we must....a round, a fat rounder, and off to see what one sees 'round here.... Intermissioned under Interlude Bring the car comfy 'nuff to make the Real Road Rallye 2X and you can meet The Dragon and some other nifty drives.... Bear in mind (got those, too) that AVL was once called "A Cesspool Of SIN!" by a NC House rep during an election run-up 'while back... ...which we'all thought amusing and printed shirts... ;) C'ya on the pm |
@snilf, we are kindred spirits; I identified strongly with your post and have wondered the same thing, though (like you, I imagine) I don’t lie awake nights agonizing over it. Based on my observations, there are many layers to this thing.@ghdprentice has defined very well the most extreme, to which he belongs, and I am thankful for those like him who have great knowledge gained from deep experience (and expenditure) and who are, at the same time humble, being both willing and able to share with others less fortunate or just less fanatic. I, like you, have a system with which I am very happy and with which I do not fiddle. My friends would certainly consider me an audiophile. I put some serious time and money (but well less than $50k overall) into building my system and am very pleased with it every time I turn it on. I love music of (almost) every variety, and I am preoccupied with the fidelity of its reproduction, but not to the point of obsession. As a music lover and engineer, audio reproduction both interests and touches me on multiple levels I find myself daily reading selected posts here, but by no means all. But I do come here almost every day. If I had considerably more resources, I could certainly see myself moving toward “more than the cost of two cars” systems housed in a purpose-built structure somewhere on a beautiful site with a picture window onto breathtaking scenery. That, however, is not my lot, and I consider myself very blessed to both have some understanding of what is possible and still be happy every time I listen to my rig. Thank you for provoking me to thought this morning. |
it could be very easy to feel alienated from this forum. i like it, but its definitely a challenge. this one is far from representative of the audiophile community, so if youre not right for it, and if youre looking for a home, there are far better forums/fora. |
Well said... I posted only my basic components images... not my acoustic corner which is not esthetical and i never really posted the complete photos of my lost acoustic room with my 100 tuned resonators, just the first images at the beginning which were atrocious and more than unesthetical, this stir the pot of many and i was attacked for a week by a well known seller of tweaks here which never like my homemade motto : dont buy tweaks if you can do them yourself ... As you my system is SOTA+C ... 😊 State Of That Affordable and creative ... |
@cey I am curious, what are those forums? |
Simple question: how often, when listening to music, are you distracted by thoughts about the sound of your system -- especially thoughts tinged with dissatisfaction? If you really are a "pure" music lover, who doesn’t fixate on sonics, congratulations! The "disease", as @ghdprentice calls it, once contracted, can be tricky to manage. Perhaps it would be helpful to know most of us are located somewhere on a spectrum, being both music- lovers and sound-chasers in varying proportions and that, furthermore, this balance often changes. For example, when I’m happy with the sound of my system, I naturally tend to focus on music. On the other hand, if I’m experiencing problems with my system and listening is yielding little pleasure, I tend to become absorbed by the drive to address sonic dissatisfaction and seek advice. Of course, some of us are more easily taken over by obsession than others. ;o)
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Fantastic post i agree ! It was acoustics experiments that helped me the most... My system is so well balanced now that i can think only about music... It is not the best system possible by far ...😊 But any system at any price with minimal synergy when acoustically optimized will give you acoustic ectasy by revealing the original recorded acoustic parameters chosen by the recording engineer... Then your attention are focussed on the live recorded acoustics and music... The gear dont matter and impede nothing... Could the gear be improved ? Always for sure, but when done right any system can give you heaven on earth ... Mine does with speakers and headphone for 1000 bucks ... If i could anybody could...
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I just saw this thread. OP, you definitely seem to know a lot about music, and probably a lot about how acoustic music sounds. I suspect defer to your judgement on acoustic instruments reproduction more than I would for the majority of posters here, including myself. I think your observations would be valuable here. I think that you are justified in asking if you belong here. Clearly the emphasis in Audiogon is about individuals that like to experiment with changing equipment, and as you note, most individual components cost more than your system. I am not being pejorative here, merely stating an observation. There is also a smattering of people with modest systems, some of whom make claims that their low priced systems have reached the limits of music reproduction and can’t be bettered. To |
@deep_333 wrote:
This. Well put.
+1 |
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@tvad ....I'll give you my 'insincere code' and watch you melt? That ought to be a 1st for the 'gone.... ;) I have more 'fun' doin' what I do with what I've brun to run than the *ahem* mere 'plug 'n play'..... |
It is more easy and fun to change a component as it is to change a woman to upgrade them so to speak 😁... But we learned more putting them in the right embeddings enrironment.😊 And often we must "teak" ourselves to kept our friends...
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I am not a musician but i can wrote a book about the meaning of the Bruckner 5 th symphony as if it was a movie with a deep images content even if i dont read music. 😊 I am an audiophile because i am able to create my own dedicated acoustic room homemade with a complete transformative effect for any given system and i love music... Then it is not so rare ...😊 my favorite violin pieces are Bach sonatas mono version with Szeryng and Miltstein as my second choice ...😊 ( the Szeryng version of the violin concertos of Bach as second choice)
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