A long time ago (15 years) I replaced an amp and a preamp with an integrated. I had a Belles Preamp and B&K amp, not "high end" but reliable and powerful. I wanted a remote for the preamp, and my main dealer said if I was going to replace the preamp, he had a deal on a Plinius integrated that was far superior to what I had for only a couple hundred bucks more than a new preamp. It also has a good phono stage that can accommodate MC carts (but I ended up getting a separate Sutherland Insight phono stage which improved the sound very noticeably).
Less cables with the integrated (although my phono stage eliminated that benefit) and all things being equal, they are less expensive because there is only one box to manufacture, one power cable to buy and no interconnect needed from preamp to amp. Unless I had some reason for wanting a different amp and preamp, I would only get an integrated. Some guys like more boxes and complexity - I prefer the opposite.
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Nothing wrong with integrateds, at all.
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Main 2 channel system is all separates - ARC REF preamps and Simaudio amplification and I may look again in a few years. I have gone AVM integrated (class D amp and pre with tube compliment) for my family room system and couldn't be happier. I dont see it listed in any response. Should definitely be on the list.
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I love separates and integrated amps. Anyone in the hobby long enough knows we must have multiples systems to use and try out. Especially when you come across vintage gear at low prices. I enjoy music and love to switch it up from time to. But nothing wrong with integrated, I'm currently enjoying my Luxman 590, and next month I throw back into the loop my MX-1. What makes this hobby so much fun is the synergy of equipment. I heard several albums repeatedly with different speaker/amp, and they each bring a new flavor :)
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I also own an Ayre AX-5/20. It replaced more expensive separates (Modwright KWA 150 SE and Cary Slp-05 pre) and sounds vastly better imho and takes up a lot less space.
Good high end companies seem to be investing a lot of R&D into integrateds these days.There are a lot of good ones in the price range we are discussing.
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I like the idea of an integrated...but hard to biamp...
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Last August 2021 I made the decision to scale back. I wanted a simple system consisting of an integrated amplifier and good CD player. I had an Oppo BDP105D > Ayre Cx-7emp player > Ayre K-5xeMP Preamp > Mark Levinson no.334 > Totem Forest Signature Speakers. I also had a classic Anthem I225 Integrated that pulled duty on occasion.
I selected the Naim Supernait 3 and their CD5si. Then I discovered that the CD5si was an entry level component. As a result I kept the Oppo BDP105D and purchased a Supernait 3. Then a Naim nDAC along and their Super Lumina DIN5-5. Thinking I was satisfied I jammed until March 2022. Then after hearing what the 3 piece system could provide I wanted more. I purchased a Teddy Pardo XPS and their TeddyCap SE. The Teddy XSP came with a free prototype power cable. So far it’s pulling it’s own weight.
Summation: I started with a 5 piece system and I'm now back to a 5 piece system. However I’ve gotta give it to Naim, their kit sounds amazing. The Teddy Pardo power products are quiet good as well. Better than Naim’s? Dunno but I really like Naim’s Integrated amp. 80 Naim watts/400VA transformer!
N
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I went the opposite route. I actually started with an integrated system. Some cheap Japanese junk by Hitachi back in the 80s. I then got into surround sound and my music playback was via a series of surround sound receivers. My first "serious" integrated system was a Peachtree Nova 150.
I moved to separates because I was unable to source an integrated that I could afford/live with, that featured bass management. I have perennially faced space constraints which dictated bookshelf speakers with understandably limited capacity for bass reproduction.
Although I eventually managed to upgrade my living space and now use Canton floor standers for my main system, I still use separates because I like the flexibility when upgradeitis strikes. In my bedroom system I use Kef LS50s driven by separates which allows me to channel the signal through a subwoofer with a highpass filter that reduces the load on the little Kefs.
I"m fully cognizant that there are other means of accomplishing this, but there is a limit to how "separate" I want to get! :-)
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My Made in U.S.A. Coda -CSIB integrated amplifier is a Excellent integrated, Many people still don’t know that Coda has been around over 35 years and all were Engineers with Nelson Pass at Threshold under Nelson went solo ,Coda has 3 power options for the same monies up to 18 1st watts into pure class A , the biggest low noise potted toroidal transformer I have ever seen at under $15k It’s 3,000 Va and over 120 short term amps on demand . Beware of companies using cheap silver round Alps volume pots ,they degrade low level detail for sure , the Coda has a Electronic Burr Brown class A type it has Mosfets,fet, and 40 bipolor transistors on the outputs, 10 year warranty for $6500 or less, a true Great bargain in Audio . Mike at Audio Archon is great to deal with and very competitive .
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So according to op, BHK and first watt are mid-fi? At best?? Huh... Wow...
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I went to a Rogers High Fidelity Tubed Integrated Amp, model EFH 200 Mark II. Without a direct comparison in the same system & room, there’s really no way to tell how just how really good it is but it’s REALLY good! Lots of power, best bass I’ve ever heard from tubes & a beautiful, detailed midrange with very realistic air & amazing subtle decay of sound that real instruments live have & few systems can duplicate.
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I have now had the Boulder 866 in my system for two days and I am really enjoying it. If your budget can stretch o the Boulder it could be your last integrated.
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IMHO... Buy new or buy name brand that can be serviced or sold.
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Makes sense to me. Fewer boxes, fewer cables, less visual clutter, less expense, more power savings, less physical weight. Wive approved.
Lean and mean is how I prefer most things.
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I have that Luxman integrated too, its pretty special.
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Luxman L-509x. Could not be happier!
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The new McIntosh 8950 looks like a real winner. Right now nobody has them in stock because they are so new.
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To each their own.
love my x200
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I tried the integrated route twice and went back to separates. Always felt I was missing some detail with the integrateds.
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Now that I'm "on a separates roll" maybe I'll even go from my tube integrated to a Luxman with built-in DAC card. :). Then it's just 3 components:
The Lux, the CDP, and the TT. One less set of IC's, and no spare tubes.
@bigtex22, ain't clean grand?
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Integrated all the way. Love the clean setup of my McIntosh MA8900, Roon Nucleus+, and Sonus Faber Olympica Nova Vs.
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I went with a McIntosh MA6900 integrated and am super happy with the decision. I liked the idea of the 6900 because it's all analog, no built in DAC. I can get my separate fix from swapping out DAC's. I even added a Schiit Valhalla 2 in between my DAC and the 6900 to add a little tube sound, which again, I can tinker with if i want 😀. On my DAC, both XLR and RCA are live so I just switch back and forth between inputs for tube vs. non-tube. I'm extremely happy with it!
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YES!...One word....Lyngdorf!
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I finally sold my wonderful tube separates. It was a decision that I considered for at least two years, one which I finally made. The upside is that I greatly prefer the cleaner and simpler appearance of my listening room. The ease of operation and maintenance of a single chassis tube integrated are also big pluses.
It helps me relax and enjoy the music more. I don’t think about what I might or might not be missing.
In a way, it’s kinda like driving a freshly detailed car.
Less clutter: the music sounds better. Far fewer tubes: far less maintenance and "rolling."
Clean and shiny: the car runs and feels better. :)
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I didn’t move from, I set up a second system. I was either going to get a Luxman or a Hegel. I ended up getting a Hegel H390. It plays Tidal without a separate streamer and the built in DAC is pretty good.
All the Best.
JD
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Just ordered a Coda CSIB ver. 1 From Mike at Audio Archon .Will be replacing a Rogue RP 7 and Odyssey Kismet monos. Really wanted to go with a lower power Luxman but room just to big.
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I'm not ready for an integrated on my main system of separates. I like it too much to even think about replacing. However, I recently purchased (thank you Craigs List) a used Hegel H160 integrated for my office system and really like it which makes me think the 390 or 590 would be really fine for a main rig.
When I get sick of separates, I'll bet class D will be all the rage and perhaps then I'll go with an integrated of that design.
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Cayin 688r - integrated amp along with Musical Fidelity M6SACD, Focal Aria 948
Musical Fidelity A3CR dual mono integrated, A M3CR CD, VPI MKIII, ET 2.5 tonearm, Grado Sonata Reference, kit built speakers using Legacy Audio components
Technics SA-5770 integrated, SL-1200M3D KAB fully modified, NHT 2.5's and 1.5's
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The only integrated that I have seen lately that excites me is the Trilogy Audio.
I had both a First Watt and XA30.8 and never could warm to either piece. I will say that Pass has among the best customer service I have encountered.
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@james_edward I have heard a few ZU Speaker owners say the Luxmans are a great combo.
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@audiojan I was looking at that same amp or the 30.8 to go with my BHK before my 'breakdown" lol
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@garyalex I go thru a funk like this every few years. I've been thinking about rearranging and switching in and out components for a long time. I have seen quite a few nice "minimal" systems and I am rethinking my room. Yes, I'm hoping some change may "help" with the funk. However, its like driving the same car for a few years. You get a new one and becomes fun, at least a while, to drive again. To be honest in 5 years time, I'll probably change out something again.
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“I would be curious if someone did a blind test between separates and integrated if they could hear the difference. If they can hear the difference, what would they hear? They would need to use a manufacturer that manufactures separates as well as integrated.”
@larry5729
I knew sooner or later someone going to show up here suggesting ‘blind’ testing regime. Let me just say, the premise of blind testing is flawed as it does not work for music or the equipment in question. It actually test something else - the tester himself and his abilities 😊
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I like modern design and appreciate the lack of clutter.
I started my audio journey with a receiver with tape deck and a turn table and later a CD player.
I've had an NAD integrated and went to separates with McIntosh C2600 and MC 302 with a streamer and turntable (I still have the tape deck and while it's a conversation starter it really is a dust collector!
My current set-up is Moon 390 preamp/network player and two monoblock amplifiers.
- Moon 390 is a preamp with DAC, Streamer and phono stage. I find it an upgrade over the Mc in every way
- I chose two monoblock amplifiers because I listen to music fairly loud. Moon also makes stereo amplifiers.
Because of my personal experience I encourage you to explore your options for reducing boxes versus assume an integrated amplifier is the answer.
A a preamp/DAC/Streamer/Phono stage combo with a separate amplifier is 2 boxes where as an integrated amplifier may require a separate DAC or streamer or phono stage.
Good luck on your journey!
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I’m also in the camp of downsizing with no regrets. Had separates of varying pedigree since 1995, and went to a Luxman 590AXII 4 years ago.
Headphone amp, phono stage, tone controls, great, great sound…
I didn’t audition any other integrated before purchasing the Luxman, so I’m not qualified recommend it over another, but it sure sounds sweet. I use Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S speakers, which are on the more efficient side of the spectrum.
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I went from PS Audio BHK Pre with Pass Labs XA60.5 (and Audio Research REF75SE in rotation...) to a Luxman L-590AXII. No regrets at all. In many regards actually sound even better than the separates did!!!!
Driving Wilson Watt Puppy 8's and yes, the 60W (into 4ohms) are MORE than enough to drive the Wilson's.
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There are 3 Luxman integrated amps on the Audiogon market page.
590AXII $5,751.00
550AXII $4,508.00
550AXII $4,499.00
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I would go with Pass INT-25. Its best integrated amplifier pass ever made. New industrial transistors (700A 2 per channel), huge heatsinks, heavily biased into class A, the simplest pre-amp topology (Wayne masterpiece). Herb Reichardt from stereophile liked it more compared to his xs + xa combo. Just give it a listen this amp. Incredible details and deep black ground, very open but not bright or fatigue sound (The luxman may sound to you a bit veiled when compared to INT-25). Plenty of power (don't let the specs fool you) I drive Sonus Faber Olympica 2 speakers with moderate sensitivity (88db) and benign impedance (3 ohms)
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@aberyclark: I get what you mean about the "mid-fi" comment but in my opinion what's actually important is what you said earlier in this thread:
"To be honest, I have not wanted to listen to anything the past month or so. I have forced myself and its just not clicking. Not because my current system does not sound good....it sounds great. However, siting in my listening chair, all I see is clutter. I know everyone goes thru an audiophile "funk". however, I've seen some real simple systems of late to where its just turn it on, and enjoy the music."
Do you really think that the "clutter" is what's preventing you from enjoying the music? I'm not being sarcastic. I could understand it if you said yes, because I've been there myself. At least one or twice that kind of thinking has lead me to selling and purchasing decisions that, in hindsight, have proved not to be good ones. I'm just saying be careful. Be as sure as you can be about what you're doing and why you're doing it.
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@garyalex I'm talking Price wise. Plus, it all depends on what part of the food chain you are looking from. If I said "First Watt is high end", I would hear "dude...you don't know what high end is...First Watt, although nice, is mid fi at best".
From my perspective, I see my equipment as mid fi or even upper mid fi collectively PRICE WISE. I'm sure I could find $50,000 amps that I feel my First Watt blows away sound-wise.
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@larry5729 I'm probably guessing that 99% people will not be able to tell a difference assuming all components are from the same model series (For example: Pass INT 25 vs Pass xa25 and XS pre). However, even within the models, there may be different "voicings" vs anything to do with quality. Now, taking the components to extreme volume conditions may be a different story. Of course, using measuring tools are sure to show some difference based on sharing a power supply.
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I find the statement that the First Watt J2 is "mid-fi" interesting but more importantly, I think you might be wasting your time and money. You don't want to make expensive changes and a month or so later find yourself in the same place - disinterested and not listening. In my experience loss of interest in listening to recorded music is rarely about the equipment. In any event, good luck.
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I still have separate's for my two channel setup & 5.1, my VAC tube amp, and ARC LS15 tube preamp, and I don't plan to change unless something goes up in a puff of smoke. I also have an Exogal Comet Plus DAC, Audiolab 6000N streamer, Spectron musical MK lll class D amp For my 5.1 setup l have the Emotivia XMC-2 AV preamp and Anthem MCA-5 amp Oh don't forget my Xbox!
All this equipment is in a low-profile credenza with glass soft close doors. OLED TV above So, l don't have an issue with clutter, and most importantly, my wife is happy! For critical listening, l always pull my Maggie's four feet into the room, and they are super easy to put back
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I am now running just two components. A Vitus R101 Mk II amplifier and a Lumin T2 streamer/DAC to feed the Revel F228Be speakers. Less clutter, less cabling and will challenge most separates.
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Correction; 590AXII, not 580AXII
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Just went integrated on my main system, replacing about $10K worth of separates (DeHavilland, Edge, JLTi) with a Luxman 580AXII. Driving Klipsch Forte IV's, so the 30 Class A WPC was not an issue. Now just have to get around to selling off the old gear.
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