After fifty years… amazing. What high end audio can be.
I am just enjoying my system. I am in awe of what an audio system can be. I have been listening to Bill Evans in the 60’s and 70’s on my system (see my userId). Having relentlessly pursued the high end for fifty years, alway stretching to achieve the next level. It is so rewarding to have a system that completely surprises and delights me each time I listen to it. What a treat…personally, really well worth the thousands of hours and dollars to achieve it. At 70, glad I did it.
about the number of and loss of audiophiles: I guess you need disposable money and time (and some of it is interchangeable) and a lot of those to become one. Here is an idea, when you are too old to listen to your gear, or not alive enough, give it, sell it to a "developing" audiophile. If I ever have something worth inheriting and my kids won't care, I will sure find the right "heir" |
Great thread! I turned 70 in December and I have been in this hobby for 50+ years. My current system is not the most expensive that I have put together but it is the most satisfying I have had. I don't think my hearing is anywhere near what it was 20 years ago but I can still hear great details in my current setup. We love and enjoy our music and that makes our obsessions worthwhile. |
Snuck into my Uncle's basement in 1959 when I was 10 and he was relaxing to some new fangled Stereo LP's. The room was dark except for the glow of tubes; the sound was everywhere, like a blanket on me. He was playing jazz and I felt the performers were in the room with us. When he turned the lights on I saw these massive speakers (Klipschorns),,,, I've been hooked ever since. Great audio has been available for a long, long time
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I concur. I have been in the game at a certain level since the early 70s, certainly not in the elite echelon but quality hifi hardware. Just last night I sat down after dinner and listened to 3.5 albums consecutively* and marveled over and over at what a modern system can deliver compared to my previous mostly more middling quality vintage hardware (with the exception of the streamer), which I purged piece by piece over the course of the past two years and replaced with up to date speakers, DAC/amp and powered subs with the attendant room correction software. Listening to music is a much, much more rewarding experience today than it had been in the previous decades. You could say, "they don't make 'em like they used to", and you would be correct ....and that's a good thing. *
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“I wonder if we are the last of a generation that grew up with hi-fi and made it an important part of our lives-- “
Yup, you’re right. But part of the reason is that they haven’t had the opportunity to hear what’s possible, what big ol’ boxes can sound like. When friends of our kids came over, a number of them showed a lot of interest. On top of that, they didn’t have the American songbook and the crooners to grow up with. We definitely lived through the golden years of the birth of high fidelity. We’re in Lampasas and it’s noticeably absent from the Austin scene, even with SXSW! |
75 here, with 60 years of the chase behind me. Still have the first Heathkit I built, the first decent turntable and speakers that I bought. It’s all been wonderful, and still going. We have about a dozen pairs of speakers inside and outside of the house (no neighbors) and a portable system (small amp and Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2 EX speakers) for travel and hospital use. That’s about the only concession to age. No dedicated listening room or home theater. Every room is for listening, and all systems can be connected via Bluesound. Music is going close to 50% of the time, throughout the house, inside and out. |
I think an important part of the pleasure and what keeps it interesting is the chase. At different times in your life you chase different things but with audio it is almost always the same - perfection or as close to perfection in sound reproduction as you can get and when you reach that next level it provides a reward. The most interesting thing is that soon there is yet another another step that can be taken to reach that next level in the chase. There is no finish line. And, what else can you do that provides the possibility of financial stress and pleasure at the same time- i.e. at least that you can do at home? What the hell, it’s only money. |
Re affordable gear for the yout’ we elders run into—I was with one of my nieces over Christmas and she bought 3 albums at a sale at the library and asked me about some $400 TT-speaker all in one setup she saw at Crutchfield. I recommended she get the new Technics 1500C TT (has a good Ortofon cart and built-in phono stage) and the KEF LSX2 powered speakers for a 3-piece all in one setup! The price went up to $3000 instead of $400 but I caught her attention. I have the LSX2 speakers in my bedroom for TV and Roon and they sound fabulous for the price. You can find them used for around $1000. |
Let me join the crowd born in 1953 to say—happy 70th to all of us and many more years of happy listening! I too have spent years and $$$ to get to the system I have today and like GHDPrentice I don’t regret all the effort to arrive here. Now let’s all keep our hearing—as much as possible. Happy new year to all, both young and old! |
I started in 1972 with Advents, Sansui 2000x, and Dual 1215S with Shure M91E, as a 15 year old paperboy. Upgraded constantly for 10 years, then sat mostly tight for 3 decades while raising kids and doing a career with lots of moves. Now, I have furiously revamped in the pandemic era with new speakers and electronics and streaming instead of vinyl. Back to rolling tubes, though the prices are a bit higher (wish I had kept my perfectly good Dutch Amperex and Telefunken tubes I threw away each year of retubing!). Never have I enjoyed my stereo more! |
@ghdprentice - interesting point re ham radio. Yes, agreed, listening won't go away, music won't go away. How we listen- via the types of gear, I think may change- in some ways, it already has- the headphone listeners, the streaming (which I know you are on board with using the big Aurender). I do think we came up in a golden age of hi-fi, from the post-war boom and all that came with that. If somebody asked me for advice on a starter system today, I'm not sure what I'd tell them. I doubt I would encourage them to go into vinyl. Thanks for the kind response- I certainly didn't mean to be negative. I do think we have it good right now. Lee from TAS posted on another forum that there was a large audience of young people at the Warsaw show. I don't know what those markets are like- I guess my comments have to be limited to my experience in the States. Bill |
@whart To add some evidence to support your hypothesis… ham radio. Back in the 50’s and 60’s there were the adult nerds with huge antennas sticking up from their houses (modest homes). The talked to people all over the world… other ham operators via short wave. It was at the forefront of hobbies… and was really important communications durin WW2. They are gone… come on, any left would have been killed with the internet. On the other hand, high end audio is about music. Music is about as fundamentally human thing that is non-essential to survival and continuation of the species. This has never been a “popular” pursuit… it probably never will… but I don’t think it will be going away in the next generation or two.
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Thanks for the responses- @cleeds - nice catch on the old data. |
Music and media were completely different when we were young, @whart, and were much less fragmented. As a result, a generation could largely define itself through its music which, at the time, often had powerful social messages. That made music a central element of many people's lives and the stereo system was obviously part of that. Consider this: As late as into the mid-70s, consumer research (in the US) showed the second major purchase contemplated by newlyweds was a stereo system. The Number One primary purchase was a bed. Yup, "our world has changed." But for many of us, we will always cherish our stereo systems. |
@whart I agree with you regarding the younger generation and their music, gear, etc. Us older folks had to 'shop' for music back in the day and we had more access to hifi shops (at least here in VA). It took effort to go out and hunt down import vinyl (or CDs) and we had fun doing it. Gear was less expensive and easier to obtain back then. Today---easy streaming, and no access to affordable gear has left the younger folks with Beats headphones and desk top speakers. I have a couple of friends in their 20s (from another hobby) and they love my system and one has started working on building a system. He loves vinyl too---I got him a Kraftwerk album for Christmas! It's a shame that the current record stores don't showcase or offer mid-priced, quality gear for blooming audiophiles. |
Perhaps I'm just in a mood but I wonder if we are the last of a generation that grew up with hi-fi and made it an important part of our lives-- upgrading to the point where many of us have very fine systems, built after years in this pursuit. There is no doubt a younger, monied class, and there's the uber gear (which I don't necessarily see as a sign of health of the business but whatever- I appreciate the "blue sky" aspect). It just doesn't seem to be a priority to some of the younger generation who face a whole set of challenges. Maybe that's true of every generation. I'm not lamenting the loss of the good old days, but I see the changes. I'm in Austin now, after decades in NYC, and there is very little "on the ground" here, hi-fi wise.It is a "young" city with the university and all the tech. Record shops are doing ok, but I suspect the clientele isn't largely audiophiles-- maybe a few budding ones. I do try to help out the 30 somethings here in different ways, whether it is flattening a record or gifting a few and many of them can't afford a house, let alone spending money extravagantly. (Maybe spending on other things, like high end phones and ear buds, I dunno)> Sorry if I'm being a buzzkill, not really my intention. I'm also a geezer and I'm struck by how our world has changed and will continue to change. Enjoy it while you can! (I figure by the time they haul me off to the home or worse, it won't much matter but carpe something!).
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@ghdprentice What? You haven’t heard? The earth is definitely flat now. We’ve had it wrong all these years. 🙄 |
@bluorion Thank you for sharing your recent journey. It can be really fun. One of the real challenges is to identify and put a name on the characteristics that really make a system satisfying to you. That is the real challenge for folks that pursue this long termed like @panzrwagn. It can keep one captivated for a long time. Enjoy your pursuit of the high end. |
Nearly 70, and 50 years of audio experience, as a music lover and listener. A HiFi store owner, formally trained acoustical consultant, systems design architect and engineer, live sound engineer, home theatre enthusiast, and audiophile. Besides the wild ride, my career has given me exposure to the vast and varying scope of requirements as well as evolving technologies and classical tools used to meet those requirements. Every case is unique, and every client as well. If nothing else I have learned that there is no single right way to succeed in any of this. A lifelong commitment to continual education, deep understanding of the guiding principles, technologies, and a love of music - all types - has helped me separate the wheat from the chaff, and build successful systems for the enjoyment of my clients, and myself. Perhaps my hearing isn't what it once was, but along with other skills, learning to listen critically still helps me hear into the system, and into the music. And from that I still get great joy. I still feel that twinge of excitement when the needle hits the vinyl, a Pavlovian cue, I suppose. |
@ghdprentice As for my reference system, I started going through different gear about 3 years ago---I played around with NAD, Bel Canto, Modwright, McIntosh, Naim, Focal and a few others but ended up getting a Luxman 505uxii integrated, Dynaudio Special 40s, REL sub. Streaming through a Marantz ND8006 and a VPI TT. I also upgraded the ICs, speaker cables, added a power conditioner and so on. Since I had my left over gear (Denon PMA 757, Canton Karat 200, Tekton Lore Reference, B & O TT, Denon cassette deck) I decided to create a 'fun' experimental system that was more vintage. Then I bought a Ifi Zen DAC v2 and added it to the Denon---switched speakers to the Tekton Lores. Results were very nice. Then decided to check out a demo class A Sugden A21 and got a Bluesound Node just before the holidays and so far I'm really loving the synergy of this second system. I'm starting to feel like I'm moving over to the high-sensitivity, low watt clan. It's all subjective but my ears seem to enjoy system #2. I may try moving the VPI to the Sugden since it has a phono stage. I even tried the Dyns with the Sugden---but I prefer the high sensitivity Tektons for some reason. Now I'm wondering what Heresy IVs sound like with the Sugden---apparently, they also have great synergy too. My journey continues. |
I look forward to hearing your system for the third time. Truly, about the best and most effortless I have heard in 50 years. The effortlessness is clearly its forte. Easy to just listen and enjoy. I have heard systems 2 or 3 times the price that were incredibly detailed and lovely but lacked that ease and were trying. Believe it is true that your space and set up are, perhaps, your most significant “component”. Although, I think your all ARC front end and amp characterizes the essence of easily digestible SQ. Combined with your beautiful SF speakers. Over almost 50 years, ARC has advanced the art of tube technology to a place of musicality and reality unique in this industry. Hearing your system and following advise of others, I bought an ARC Ref 80S amp to run my Quad 57s. While not achieving your level of sound, I did hear drama on vocals I have not heard from any other amp. I am still thinking of going all ARC. Now I continue trying different amps to push my Quads, I will never forget the sound I got with the Ref 80S and, especially, your system.
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Great story about your fun vs reference system.
About ten years ago I had assembled what I considered to be my retirement system. I called it my reference system… because it was so good… but also because it revealed so much. I really enjoyed it. I always wanted to own a 300b amp. So, decided to upgrade my heardphone system, which I did, big time. It became detailed but warm, natural, and musical. Then I would listen to my main system and it just wasn’t inviting like my headphone system. I loved listening for about 45 minutes and then get bored. This was not a crappy system. Audio Research Ref 5 preamp. Pass x350 amp, Sonus Faber Olympica 3 speakers. Far less analytical than earlier versions of my system. But it was missing the warmth and musicality of my headphone system. So, I did a bunch of upgrades (basically getting me to the system you see now) to all tube stuff. Reference system gone… seductive natural, musical and detailed system that I no longer get tired of listening to. If I listen to it for three hours, I am always thinking… just one more tune. The interesting thing is, I did not loose detail… it just isn’t stuck out in my face. In my reference system the venue stuck out… it was hard not to instantly think about the mastering or the recording quality. With the new system the details are all there, but you have to listen for them if you wanted to hear them. Then I would go to the symphony and realized, that was exactly how they were presented in real acoustical space. What would lead is the music… warm, rich, and inviting from a black background. From the symphony and from my systems now. This may have nothing to do with your systems. Or maybe it does.
For me, I am very analytical and let my analytical side pull me a bit too much towards greater detail and the more obvious and easily identifiable parameters of sound and overlook rhythm and pace and mid-range bloom that give the sound musicality. |
@ghdprentice I am there with you just not as nice a room but I have time only 60. No more chasing audio unicorns. I am right where I need to be with either system. Thanks for all your insight Geoff. Your friend @ Timken. |
@ghdprentice As usual, you provide an insightfull prespective and a positive view of all things Audio... for that, I Thank You. (Still impressionable at 4 years younger than you) |
Bozak, now that is a word I have not heard in decades. Yes, I have memories like that. It is really cool that a pursuit like this that can last a lifetime and never cease to be fresh and rewarding. My father past away a long time ago, but I remember listening to Glen Miller from these two large vinyl compilations when around 10 years old. I found these used a couple decades ago and are in my collection. |
@skyscraper …”As a fellow 70 year old, my only concern is that youngsters like Baylinor and Henry58 feel entitled to chime in here at their tender age. Grow up you two.” Yes, those young whippersnappers!
Thank you for your kind words. Now where did I put the Advil 😊.
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@kota1 … once you reach a point… because changes might actually degrade the enjoyment.” Yes, for the last couple years I have been methodically adjusting and tweaking positioning, wires, and room acoustics and zeroing in on, what for me is the best sound. The improvement has been unreal. While I have done the same sequence and tweaking on previous systems, in the past changes were frequently punctuated by business trips and vacations. Being retired the cause and effects are much more easily detected in continuous long listening sessions.
Probably the greatest thing for me over the last few years was bringing my streaming up to the level of my vinyl system. My content went basically to infinity as I have have more time to listen… so for any group I used to like I can explore all the most of the albums I had not bought. Also, when I feel like it I can pull out an album and enjoy the tradition I performed since a little kid. |
@bluorion I'd love to hear more about the differences between your "fun" and "reference" systems! Please post a thread about it. I'm especially curious about what defines those categories for you. |
Great thread---I've been in the audiophile world for about 30 years. My first 10-15 years was a swap fest with different gear, etc, since I had close friends at a local hifi shop. Then I settled down with my older system (now vintage) for quite a few years before the bug bit me again about 3 years ago. I bought some new gear for my reference system and started getting new gear for my 'fun' system. What I'm starting to learn is that I'm listening more to my fun system than my reference. Interesting how this turned out---I may make another post about this later. |
@ghdprentice My hat is of to you my friend. I’m 62 and I hope that I can achieve your level of satisfaction or bliss at 70. I’ve been at this since I was a young boy. I’m inspired! |
What a pleasant thread. Thanks. Turned 70 on Christmas Day and spent a little bit of the day enjoying our hobby. Just returned to home hifi five years ago, even though my career arc has taken me through broadcast and the large outdoor music event business. Have probably put more time than money into home listening but even the learning has been rewarding. On my third build now around vintage Crown pro audio power and it’s been great fun, more about tinkering than perfection…but this thread is a great reminder about the real goal state, enjoyable listening! FWIW, my favorite at home is my simplest, a late 1980s Crown PS-200 serviced and recapped at AE Techron, with just two peripherals, an unpowered Shitt preamp with a pot and two inputs on one switch - one input from the TV cable box through a DAC and one from an Auris BluMe Pro Bluetooth receiver. It powers a REL T5i sub and a pair of Wharfedale Heritage Lintons from the high level outputs. What it lacks in sophistication it makes up for in gorgeous room filling tone and fatigue-free imaging. And most importantly to this thread, I smile every time I turn it on. |
