Matt, thanks for keeping the socks on. Will it be a different color for each video? PLEASE don't take them off!!!! Thanks for taking the advice to heart.
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Hi All.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
4,487 responses Add your response
Since this thread has developed into a general discussion about digital sources and that I have found that power cables to be critical , I was wondering what pc’s you have found worked best in your system and with what digital source and dac. In my particular case I have found the Mola Mola dac and fidata server to work exceptionally well with pc’s by Sablon. |
I like the Brinkmann Nyquist Tube DAC it's sonically accurate. Sounds more like Analog then any other DAC as Helmut used his Brinkmann Balance turntable when he was voicing the DAC. This DAC is Tidal, Roon and MQA Capable. I also like the Meridian Ultra DAC. Like the Brinkmann it's awesome at all fronts. Musically the Meridian Ultra DAC is amazing as a PreAmp too. Basic CD Resolution and MLP make ordinary recordings sound much better. |
Smer319 - I have heard great things about the Brinkman. Sounds like a rather unique product and I’d love to hear it, and the new Meridian. I started with a Meridian DAC and surrounded professor years and years ago. It was very very good with my Classe multi channel amp and Aerial Acoustics 10T speakers, which I still have. |
Matt, I used to love those speakers lol. Too funny. That Brinkmann is a great Dac. I’ve heard it a few times. It really shined last year in the Vandersteen room at one of the shows. My Ayre QX 5 has a hair more detail, but it won’t touch the musicality or size of sound stage that the Brinkmann has. It’s also twice the price but this is about best. |
Matt, I enjoyed watching all four of the videos, including the one that just went up with the live piano playing. And on my computers, at least, the somewhat low volume and low lighting weren’t any problem at all. In fact to me the only slight downside of the low lighting, as a collector of antique radios, was that I couldn’t tell for sure if the cathedral radio on the left side was an original or a modern repro. I’m guessing it was a modern repro modelled a bit loosely on the 1930s Philco 90 :-) Best regards, -- Al |
Still dont have any Dac envy at all, with my current updated Lampi GG 1 with superclocked USB and separate discrete Ladder PCM and DSD256 attached AND separate chipless DSD512 engine. 2 Jacks in 1 box, so to speak! I have a host of 13 rectifiers (most vinatge and bought for like $10 a piece) and 10 pairs of DHT output tubes including some exotics like the EML anniv mesh 45 globe and the vaunted Kron 242. I cant tailor the sound to any genre and can look forward to "upgrades" when trying exciting new tube combos. Fun with extreme SQ. I will couple that 50% of the equation with optimal transport, ie my DIY linear power supplied i7 server that is audio optimzed Winserver2016 with the current champion combo of Roon/HQP or the FULL Lauferteknik software bundle on their turnkey SLC NAND SSD solution. optimized BIOS, OS with revised byte structure, Full IDEAS suite, Stealth Mode Win10 OS, DeFractionalized storage, clock mapper for extreme jitter reduction, and a host of other useful app...mated to a matched JRiver 23 structure. The Win2016 is already superb and I expect some step up with the MPlayer environment. I will use the Win2016 setup for upsampling and the JRiver MP setup for native rate. Dual boot OS on separate SSDs and separated 5v LPSUs. Should be a Transport setup worthy of the stellar GG. |
I’ve been fiddling behind the scenes with some really cool isolation pucks and cylinders and such. I’ve got some more coming in and then I’ll post a report. I think these little guys are VERY equipment dependent so I’ll try to give some general guidelines as well as my specific results in my system. Stay tuned. Also, Dr. Dave the Audio Doctor is coming Monday to bring some usb cables and his Baetis to play. That should be super fun. |
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mattnshilp OP790 posts01-21-2018 5:21amWho would buy a total piece of Schitt like that?!! All class Matt, wrap it in a glitzy $kkkkkkk chassis, and you’d be all over it like a rash. Sorry. Had to be done!! 😇 |
I think this is still top DAC. The Schitt isn't in this convo. Guys, I would counter that many of us have listened to it vs a few other similarly priced DAC's and we liked the Ayre Codex better. It also costs less at 1800. This is a very competitive price range and yes, the Schitt is very good, but so are many others. The same thing holds true at the top end of things. Matt has a system that is different than any of us. There are many great DAC's that folks need to audition. We all have different ears, tastes etc... so there is no absolute. Heck, I had Steve's OSDE/SE adn LOVED it. I still think it is one of the top DAC's I've listened to and I've heard many of the upper crust DAC's. I even got to hear the Trinity DAC some years ago (was the best by far that I've heard, but it's been too long to really say what it sounds like now vs the others). I'm sure the Schitt guys will jump all over me, but it's like taking about any 5k speaker and saying it's a great buy in a thread talking about Vandersteen System 9 (yes, my favorite so far), Tidal's, Wilsons, Magico, B&W and any other speaker that's in the 80k plus range. They can't compete regardless of your ears, room or system. JMHO and those of a few others on this thread. |
Wow GeorgeHifi, my statement was a simple joke about the word “schitt” which people have been doing forever and, I am pretty sure, the marketers of Schitt counted on to help get their name known. We all know it’s a super performer for the money; a great value and a brilliant marketing campaign. My statement was an utter and complete joke. Your statement, on the complete other hand, was a spiteful, intentional insult meant to belittle my entire process, my system and a direct and obvious personal insult. I wont justify a response. I’ll allow the thread to continue on the previous topic without interruption. |
Matt, You may have intended it as a joke, but it does not read like a joke. I can see how the second line "Sorry, Had to be done!!" would lead one to a very different conclusion. Onwards to learning about DACs and your journey with them. I have to catch up on a few videos...Google's been notifying me. : ) |
David_Ten - I apologize if It was interpreted that way. The “it had to be done” comment meant that a joke about the name “Schitt” had to be done since no one else had made one. I have ever ever , in 4 years, insulted a product by using profanity or degrading anything or anyone. I have said I don’t like something and then explained why. I’m not sure how a personal insult would be justified even if I had meant what you suggest. Apologies to anyone who took offense at my statement. It was a joke. Not an insult. |
Ok. Thankfully the moderator erased my post. It never happened. Except that we all now know that GeorgeHifi thinks I select equipment based on price and bling. Maybe I do. ;) To move on.... Everyone NEEDS to go see The Greatest Showman. To true music lovers, it’s an emotional roller coaster. I had that lump in my throat after for almost 15 minutes. Couldn’t talk, on the boarder of laughing and crying. For those that know what I’m talking about, you get it. It was truly wonderful. Take your partner and make a special night of it!!!! |
mattnshilp OPWho would buy a total piece of Schitt like that?!! +1 David, I noticed his post is now removed, but it went a bit deeper than that, from way back. Quote mattenshlip: "Hi guys. For the first time on this thread, I'm putting an end to this. No more R2R commentary and no responses. You have made your opinion very very clear. If you want to continue I encourage you to start your own thread about how awesome you think R2R is to the exclusion of all else." Cheers George |
@david_ten Actually, I took it as a joke; I saw it for what it was and didn't give it a second thought. It did not appear to be an inside joke or kidney punch - just a little fun. Matt has been the OP of decorum and civility and provided a wealth of knowledge for us all to benefit from for a number of years now. I think in the spirit of all things Dac-related, we should get this massively-popular 78-page thread back on track. |
Thanks Pokey77. George, not sure why your waiting for a confrontation with me. It’s like your looking for one. Just waiting for me to post just the right opportunity and then pounce. I apologize if I have offended you in some way. I’m like the least offensive person on the planet. Let’s bury the hatchet and move on. Really looking forward to the Baetis coming tomorrow. Stay tuned. |
A prime example of how interpretation varies amongst individual readers. With a name like Schitt it is the perfect and inevitable target for word play. I believe that the company intentionally chose this name for this very purpose and expected effect. Matt’s suggestion to George to start a thread regarding R2R DACs seems to be the logical next step given his repetitive and numerous posts on this subject. It’s apparent to me that George has very strong opinions concerning R2R conversion. This would provide an outlet for his beliefs and perspective. Charles |
And if everyone noticed, I didn’t say anything except complement all involved in the recent reincarnation of the very same R2R/DS DAC conversation. Simply because it was informational, educational, respectful and completely avoided any absolute statements. In this hobby, there are no absolutes. Only opinions. And we have all learned from the great input recently posted from this great community! I have watched over this thread for years and always tried to keep it respectful, free of drama and conflict. As a result we have nurtured a community of open opinion, educated involvement and mutual respect. I take enormous pride in what this thread has become. Im not sure why, but I think that George takes offense that I feel a sense of paternity and responsibility towards this thread and act as a pseudo-moderator. As I said before, I sincerely apologize to George and anyone else if I have ever said or implied anything directly or interpreted as offensive! |
Matt, no need for an apology (in case it was directed at me) as I was neither offended nor insulted. I enjoy this thread (even when it diverges from the primary intent) and now your videos and am looking for more insights and learning via both media. Thank you for your recommendation on 'The Greatest Showman.' I like both leads and the 90% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes speaks volumes. I'm looking forward to being emotionally moved. |
We've always had some twists and turns and we will get back to gear very soon. Of course the name was chosen for a reason. They love it when they get their free pub on boards as they don't have to have high overhead and can make affordable products that work nicely within their price range. It's a great concept and they make many happy. There is no be all end all in audio for obvious reasons that have been talked about in nearly every thread on every forum all over the net. Maybe even the dark net, but I don't play there so I don't know for sure, lol. ((😆 that's my way of saying joke). I've gotten to know Matt, Richfield, Steve and so many of you because of this thread. Nothing else, just this thread. I've gotten to network with Matt specifically and met others here who post. Many of you are dealers or manufacturers. ALL of you are great guys who share the same passion that I do. Gentlemen all of you (no grammar police as I purposely wrote it that way ;)). Matt and others have kept this thread going and kept it civil, when most so many of these bumps would have blown up other threads. Teh same will happen here, because 99% of us what it that way. Most of us open up AG daily and look to see who's posted what and what gear are we talking about today. For many of us, we can't afford the TOTL stuff, but it's fun to dream and it's fun to learn. I also want to know what the 'best' gear is on the top end and it allows me to learn more about what is in my own wheel house. I'm sure most of you are do the same. I know that so many who read this thread and don't post feel that way. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention something about Matt. He's become a very good friend (same with Richfield and Sam isn't far behind). We don't see eye to eye on much of audio, but we are very very close most of the time. At first I thought that I disagreed with him more than I agreed, but over the years now, I've come to realize that we do like most of the same gear as we both need tonality first. It's fun as we bounce so much off of each other daily. As you can tell, it's his passion. He's a great friend and he's honest. What he has, that many on the net lack is class. I've never seen anyone on the internet (I'm much more heavily involved in Oklahoma Univ athletics than audio and I spend hours and hours daily listening to music and networking in that area) react to some of the stuff he does with such class. Many of us have no filters (thanks MS!) and can be contentious. We are brutally honest and just post thoughts and don't always think (again, screw you MS). Matt does the opposite. He will take valuable time to retort to a post that may rub him the wrong way or if he knows something isn't fact etc... He's one of many I've seen on this thread who won't put something else down even if he didn't like it at all. Sorry Matt, but it's very true as no one likes everything (why both Wilson and Vandersteen can be profitable for so long as they are so opposite of each other). I'm in touch with at least 6 of the folks who read or post on this thread on a consistent basis as I've said and everyone I spoke with about this issue felt that Matt was pretty funny and not putting down the product. For those who have taken the time to read this whole thread, you'd have known that Matt has and would never put down a product. He'll be honest if he didn't love something, but no way does he put down a product. Especially a decent one that a couple of you enjoy. This situation, like a couple of others before it will play itself out. On Wed, I'm heading to Matt's house for the first time to audition The Memory Player and built in (or possibly external) DAC and I can't wait. First time I get to see and hear your room and I can't wait to hear this piece of equipment that I've heard SOOOO much about over the last couple of months. Very exciting and what this thread is truly about adn why it will always stand the test of time. I"m blessed to be getting a ride over to Matt's as I wouldn't be able to physically drive right now. I wonder what music we will get to audition. Sorry to break away from the previous schitt, but it really is all about the music as well as the gear isn't it? (if you made it this far, thanks). |
Matt has been one of the most humble people on Audiogon. I've asked him several questions through PM and he has always been respectful. He's vey hesitant to be overly critical of a component. Matt keep being who you are, I submit you help make Audiogon a great place for constructive and honest dialog. |
Imgoodwithtools, we had a customer bring in his Berkley Ref 1 which I know in'st the latest howerver we compared it to our Davinci Dual Dac MK I which isn't as good as the newer MK II. So it was a fair title match up last series of each head to head. The Davinci was signifigently more like an analog source with a bigger soundstage and a more holographic sound stage. The Berkly was superb I think we also compared both to the EMM Labs Da 2 the new $25k one, and both of these dacs were better than the Emm. You should listen to one if you can, they are very rare dac's but as Matt will attest to one of the most remarkable pieces of digital out there. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
http://lightharmonic.com/products/da-vinci-dac-mkii/ "Now we’ve decided to push the boundaries once again with Da Vinci MKII’s 32/768 kHz PCM resistor ladder DAC engine. And history will repeat itself. Da Vinci MKII’s second decoding engine is a pure Delta-Sigma DAC capable of decoding DSD signals up to DSD256." As I thought, the PCM decoder is a resistor ladder circuit. The DSD engine is Delta Sigma. Personally have no respect for LH Labs, as they kickstarted the Vi dac and took money from customers without delivery. But doesn't mean they can't build a good dac. |
Nitewolf, the Davinci has two completely separate dacs in one chassis. There is a pure resisitor ladder as well as a sigma delta engine for DSD and both enginges sound fantastic. There is a lot of innovative ideas in the Davinci and the excution is flawless the entire chassis is cut out of two billets of aluminu, the output stage runs in pure Class A it actually gets hot, so they are running some actual juice through it. As per Kickstarter most of the people got their products, LH labs is slow as hell in delivering product especially new products. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I can attest to the LH build quality and Sonics, that’s for sure. I believe Dave is correct in LH’s Kickstarter delivery. I think they have caught up on most if not all at this time. They are slow slow slow. They are focusing on their relationship with Tesla from what I understand; not right or justifiable, but they made their bed and now have to lie in it. But man can they make a top shelf DAC!!! See you in a few hours Dave. Hopefully with the Baetis in tow. Dave’s bringing over some Uber usb cables as well: Enklein and the LH usb cable. I can’t wait to hear them! |
the output stage runs in pure Class A it actually gets hot, so they are running some actual juice through it So is the output stage of the Overdrive SX, as well as the other stages. I expect my output stage is more linear than DaVinci.
What is their relationship with Tesla? I am an owner and stockholder. Should existing, operating companies use kickstarter? Maybe startups... Steve N. Empirical Audio |
UPDATE!!! Thanks to Dave, The Audio Doctor, for stopping by and bringing all those fun toys. See the YouTube video for images and Dave explaining the gear. What he brought : -Baetis music server (I’ll let Dave post about the nuances of the external power supply system used) - from what I understand a pretty standard example of the Baetis. Supposedly there is a higher current power supply available. -Enklein David power cord -Enklein usb cord -Light Harmonic Lightspeed 20G usb cable I’ll start with the usb cables (and will post the Baetis to MP64 comparison in another post). The Enklein cable has about 200 hours on it while the LH 20G was almost new. The Enklein is beautifully built with very heavy usb connectors and stalks that are very stiff but appear strong and resistant to bending and damage. If you need a tight turn off of the unit, these are not the cables for you. They are wrapped in a golden yellow woven material that is attractive and strong. The cable is expensive for a usb cable and looks expensive. The LH 20G is two smaller cables coming off of the usb connector which is strong and simply implemented with heat wrap connecting the plug to the wires. It is very flexible and looks resistant to damage over time. There is a black box in the middle of the double cable run. Instead of trying to explain it, here is LH’s web page on the cables text: “With our new LightSpeed 20G USB Cable we enhance two key things: (1) Completely bypass the USB sending device’s noisy 5V power supply with an ultra low noise 5V battery based power supply (2) Regenerate and re-clock the USB high speed data stream with our “Regenerate and Revive” circuitry that exceeds the USB 3.0 standard.” The box is powered and has a battery that recharges with a micro usb plus and charger. I have no idea how long the charge lasts but I would Imagine quite a while..... We first listened to my “stock” system using my tried and true Wireworld Platinum Starlight usb cable (most recent model) between my Memory Player 64, which now has just over 1000 hours on it, and the LH Davinci DAC. The Wireworld usb cable probably has 5-7k hours on it! The sound was familiar and wonderful. Soundstage was wide, deep and with very nice image specificity. Ok, a quick swap of the usb cables to the Enklein and Dave and I “dropped the digital needle” on the same three tracks. Wow! Did we change cables or components?!? The texture of vocals became more layered, subtlety of tone was better, dynamics improved and the soundstage became deeper and about 6-10” taller. I would say it took a step towards realism. I was expecting an improvement as Enklein makes some seriously good cables, but I wasn’t expecting THIS big a difference! I’m already picturing the Enklein in my system for a long time, when we hit the stop button and swap out the Enklein for the LH 20G. We hit play starting at the top track, and almost instantly Dave and I look at each other in astonishment! The vocals jumped a foot higher, to normal human height. The bass became more taught and extended, the entire drum set suddenly appeared IN my room. The upright bass wasn’t just better, it was there! It was natural and just flowed easily without effort, yet displayed dynamics that I had not heard before. If the Enklein was wow, the LH 20G was Holy $&!? !!! Now I don’t know, and strongly assume there is, a designed synergy between the LH 20G and the LH Davinci 2 DAC. And the Enklein was exceptional, and may sound best with other dacs. But with my system the LH 20G was mouth dropingly amazing! It sounded like a massive component upgrade. I can’t wait for the guys to come over and hear the system and see their reaction. Dave was kind enough to leave the 20G with me to burn in a bit more before I make a purchase decision. But I don’t think it will be leaving my system, ever! Thanks Mr. Audio Doctor!! For those that want to upgrade your DAC, upgrade your usb cable first! It may be just the upgrade your looking for. —— See the next post for a comparison between the Baetis and Memory Player. |
