I sold that setup and went with the PS Audio directstream with the bridge 2 and SQ is fantastic.
i moved the Mac mini into the basement with 24TB of raid disk using OS X server for all my music and communicated to the DS using 1G Ethernet
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
You couldn’t get any worse source music than iTunes. Plus you are limited by using a Mac mini with amarra. Plus having a Mac in an audio room is the worse. I had this setup a few years ago and replaced it with an Auralic Aries and SQ was much better. Even with the Aries I used a AQ Diamond USB cable to an external dac. USB sucks! I sold that setup and went with the PS Audio directstream with the bridge 2 and SQ is fantastic. i moved the Mac mini into the basement with 24TB of raid disk using OS X server for all my music and communicated to the DS using 1G Ethernet |
Cable addendum: I don't know how many of you have played with power cords. But they make a bigger difference than one would think. I am a HUGE Shunyata fan and currently have a full loom of Shunyata Sigma NR power cables throughout my system and they are excellent. I have heard many (not close to all) power cords in the $100-$4000 price range and I am continuously impressed with, and have learned to rely on, the performance of Shunyata power cables and conditioners. That said, the power cable that the Audio Doctor has brought over several times to my room (I think he’s taunting me) is the Enklein DAVID power cable. Enklein cables are hand built, masterfully crafted pieces of audiophile jewelry, like my Crystal Cable Absolute Dream speaker wire. At $8,800- a cable they are nigh unreachable but the improvement on any component you power them with is astounding. Going from my already expensive Sigma NR to the DAVID yields a denser and more extended low frequency with a slight refinement of the overall presentation as if the music is being served on a silver platter instead of a wood cutting board. There is more presence in the upper registers that doesn’t cause brightness, but adds clarity and resolution without being offensive or overstated; it’s more a sense of correctness than added accuracy. The overall construction of the presentation just seams more masterfully recreated, if that makes sense. And that’s only using ONE DAVID on the server!!!! I would need 6!!!! But just thinking about those results gets me a bit hot and bothered.... ;) Dave took his Enklein DAVID home with him and will continue taunting me with them with every visit I am sure. I now know that sense of remorse reviewers feel when they need to send back equipment that makes an incontrovertible improvement in their system but is just beyond their reach. |
Rbstehno - I’m not sure where you are thread wise, but the Mac Mini hasn’t been my source for quite some time. I’ve moved WAY beyond that. I will update my virtual system as I didn’t even think of it until you just posted. I’m assuming that’s what you are looking at. I’ve auditioned almost a dozen servers since then and am now dancing with some of the best servers out there. I vehemently disagree with your blanket statement that “USB sucks.” I have heard usb sound meh and I have heard (and use) usb that sounds amazing! Don’t believe the hype that usb is dead: it ain’t. It’s not what you have, it’s how you use it that counts. ;) |
UPDATE - SERVER COMPARISON! The long awaited comparison between the mighty and very well respected Baetis and my newly acquired and wonderful sounding Memory Player 64 server is upon us! Huzzah , I say!!!! As always, enclosure first.... The Baetis has the best enclosure I have yet encountered in a modified PC. It is a completely custom enclosure with the generic layout of a PC but in a more rigid, attractive, purpose built design. It looks more like an audio component. It has an external power supply which allows the main unit to be a bit more petite than the other modified PC’s I have seen. The back was well laid out and traded a power receptacle for a power umbilical connector. I could not open the unit but I remember reading that the internal cables are upgraded and intentionally kept to minimal runs, all done to improve sound quality. There is a built in disc drive to rip CD’s and the unit boot up quickly and without issues. I will openly state that the Baetis is a better executed enclosure and, I suspect, is wired more elegantly and with more intention, than the more expensive MP64. I just don’t know how, or even if, this translates into improved sound quality. We used JRiver on both systems. No upsampling on the MP64. Dave set the Baetis to upsample; he felt it sounded best with these settings. I ran the MP64 with my Shunyata Sigma NR and we gave the Baetis the advantage of the Enklein DAVID power cord. Both were set on StillPoint Ultra 5’s and the same LH usb cable was used. The Baetis had been run at Dr. Dave’s until it’s 45 minute journey to my house, and was plugged in shortly after arrival. Identical files were loaded to compare. It was on and running for around 45-60 minutes prior to its first comparison. Was it warmed up and settled? Not completely; but it wasn’t ice cold either. It worked flawlessly and without issue. We listened to the MP64 first while letting the Baetis warm up. Then to the Baetis, and then back to the MP64. Sonically, Dave and I differed a bit in opinion. He preferred the more forward sounding Baetis while I preferred my more harmonic Memory Player. I heard a slight collapse of the front to back soundstage on the Baetis. The MP64 projected that life size top to bottom soundstage, especially with the newly installed LH usb cable. We lost some of that with the Baetis. Tonally they were similar. I heard a greater sense of depth and control in the lower frequencies, and I felt a richer sense of harmonic structure on the MP64. I think Dave preferred the slight warmth the Baetis bestowed upon the midrange. From MP64 to Baetis we both agreed we actually heard a bigger difference when going from the Wireworld to LH usb cable then swapping components, lol. We both agreed that there was a more dramatic difference palpable upon the change back to the MP64 then the initial difference going to the Baetis. It became more apparent that the MP64 offered delicacy, layered harmonics, a deeper and more realistic soundstage and image, and extended dynamics that the Baetis lacked (only in comparison to the MP64). But considering the price difference ($17k vs $48-52k’ish), the Baetis performed mesmerizingly well, and far surpassed the previous champion Aurender N10 (which makes sense considering it’s twice the price). For $17k it was just awesome! And makes me really look forward to the upcoming release of the newly revamped SGM Gen 2 server, which I believe to be around the same price. We did, of course, try the DAVID power cord on the MP64 when we had completed our comparison. And it did the same magic to the MP64 that I’ve heard on everything else. And it pushed the MP64 that much further above the Baetis in the comparison since the Baetis was powered by the DAVID the whole time. I congratulated Dave, The Audio Doctor, on representing some seriously fine equipment and thanked him for a fun time. After all was said and done, he had given me over 5 hours of his precious time. I invited him to bring the Baetis back for a head to head against the SGM Gen 2 when I can arrange for it to grace my room. The world of high end audio has some seriously awesome digital front end to consider these days. Is it maybe safe to say that “The times they are a’changing “? |
“I don't know how many of you have played with power cords. But they make a bigger difference than one would think.” Absolutely! And you hit it on the nail “they make a bigger difference than one would think”! So sad that even most high end equipment has such poorly designed power supplies that special power cords become necessary! Myself I simply get rid of electronics that doesn’t work properly without these kind of band aids. |
Absolutely agree about power chords making a big difference. The best by far that we have experienced are Sablon Reserva power cables with Furutech NCF plugs both ends. Hard wiring is even better. Furutech NCF Boosters also make a positive contribution. DAC’s and digital sources benefit greatly. Try to avoid using UK plugs if possible no matter how well made they are. Schuko is preferable if you need to use a plug otherwise hot wire. Dedicated lines with a separate cu are a must imo. Balanced power is also beneficial. |
Matt, thank you for your review of MP vs Baetis. I look forward to hearing about the comparison with the SMG in due course, I suspect much tougher opposition. It’s a pity fidata doesn’t have representation in USA at present because it’s a fine device and would be great to throw it in the mix as well. |
@toetapaudio - According the following article Mark Gurvey (Source Systems Ltd.) is apparently the US importer for fidata. https://www.stereophile.com/content/fidata-hfas1-network-audio-servers |
Memory Player can run anything. JRiver, Tidal, Roon, etc. but only certain types of software can take advantage of the single core system they employ (no idea how it works) to get the most out of their system. Steve, as far as I know both Baetis and MP recommend using JRiver as their software of choice. I asked Sam about Amarra and he said he didn’t think it was Windows compatible. It apears Amarra is available on windows. I have Sam checking out the free trial version. He’s a bit under the weather so I’m not rushing him..... Hey Sam, are you done yet? 😇 |
I read up a bit on FiData. It seams to be in the same category as Antipodes, Melco, some of the Lumin, some of the Aurender, Music Vault, YFS, SoTm, etc. Without intentionally fueling the fire, at $5k I would imagine it is very good and is comparable to the other $4k to $8k servers I have heard. If someone wants to arrange an audition for me I’m happy to put the time in to give it a chance. But I won’t pursue it on my own. I am trying to get the Innuos SE in for audition but they seam to be selling out faster then anyone can put them on their shelf for display. |
Matt, after a lengthy cable comparison I decided on the LH Lightspeed (later called 10G) quite a while ago. Did you ever get a chance to listen to it in your system? I just might try to find out how it compares to the 20G. Do you know if the 10G is upgradeable to the 20G? Haven't been in this thread for a while, so will see if I missed anything important. |
@bill_k thanks for the information, glad to see there is now a USA distributor. The dollar price quoted looks suspect, in Europe 1TB model is €7,500. Matt, the fidata is in another class compared to the top Melco, Innuos SE2, SOtM etc. that’s why I mentioned it would be good to audition. It can be used as a network audio player via USB to a DAC or server via LAN to a streamer. |
FYI, a study of measurements and listening I did today comparing USB to Ethernet. They are both good BTW, but there is a clear winner. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155232.0 Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Awesome Steve. Thanks!! That’s a great report. I don’t think anyone doubts that Ethernet is the ideal way to transfer those magic bits, but most dacs (other than yours, the Ayre and a very few others) don’t have an Ethernet music input. Also, the ONLY proper way to utilize “Ethernet music out” from a server is having a dedicated Ethernet output (in addition to the normal Ethernet jack connected to the switch/router) that can be directly connected to the Ethernet DAC (avoiding the noise in a switch/router, and allowing a direct connection between server and DAC), like the Melco server offers (the only one I know of that does). Of course, a PC based server like the Memory Player, Baetis, SGM, Music Vault, etc could always be built/modified to have that option. My issue with your Ethernet input when I had it was that my Mac Mini with Ethernet was still an inferior source to my N10 via spdif, and the N10 couldn’t use its better usb output since I didn’t have the usb input on my ODSX. My ODSX is now at my office where it is still sourced by my N10; so no matter how we slice it, the usb input is the best and only solution for that system. Once I can get the $$$ together I’d like to do the usb upgrade you told me about! At my house, I’ve got my LH Davinci 2 which has usb and spdif/aes inputs; no Ethernet input. And my Memory Player which currently only has a single Ethernet port which would obligate me to go through a noisy switch even if I did have an Ethernet equipped DAC like yours..... To me, it’s simply that the audio industry hasn’t caught up with you and your cutting edge thinking! ;) |
I don’t think anyone doubts that Ethernet is the ideal way to transfer those magic bits, but most dacs (other than yours, the Ayre and a very few others) don’t have an Ethernet music input. Also, the ONLY proper way to utilize “Ethernet music out” from a server is having a dedicated Ethernet output Well I do offer an external device called the "Interchange", which has S/PDIF coax, AES/EBU, I2S and HDMI I2S outputs. This can be used with ANY DAC. I find that using S/PDIF coax it sounds identical to the same Ethernet interface installed in the ODSX. I think one of the major advantages of Ethernet is that you don't need any fancy server. Driving the DAC from a router or switch is fine as long as it has the right power supply. My issue with your Ethernet input when I had it was that my Mac Mini with Ethernet was still an inferior source to my N10 via spdif Unfortunately, you were the first to get the Ethernet interface. You were the early adopter in this case. I learned a lot after that about how to use it and connect it, as well as making many sonic improvements to it, including adding a WIFI interface. The new XMOS USB interface is really close though, and probably with one of your expensive USB cables and the N10 server will rival the Ethernet interface. I can't wait to get it to you!! Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Hey Matt, thanks again, for the demo and the video it was totally fun. Reverendo, there is no update to the 20G as it is a much more sophiticated product, and it is really mind blowing, probably the most advanced and best sounding usb cable on the market and considering that some high end cables are $4k and above the 20G is a bargain. If you think about it the concept of jitter elimination/reclocking in one continous cable without having to use all sorts of multiple devices and the cost of having to purchase two high end usb cables makes a lot of sense. Please PM if you want to work on a trade in. The combination of the Baetis and the Davinci was spectacular the Baetis was brought over was using a less powerful less advanced external power supply with the bigger supply the sound should be even better. Considering this is the rig I run at the shop it wasn't a surprise. The battle of the server titans and usb cables was totally illuminating, and anyone who thinks that all severs or a stock computer sounds the same would have his mind blown. As Matt said the difference between the Wireworld USB which we sell and it is really good vs the Enklein and then the Light Harmonic 20G with the active circuitry was mind blowing. The LH 20G is probably one of the biggest improvements you can make in a system for the least amount of money if you have a $10k dac or so in a high resolution system then this little $2k cable addition is going to make a rather large improvement in your systems overall clarity and soundstaging. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Steve, I posted on the topic you referenced, but will ask here, too - my DAC has an ethernet input and sound was great, but upnp was not user-friendly at that time and would freeze up the DAC more often than not. With the regen the USB was back to the same level, but it has always been interesting to think of eliminating the transport. Do you know what the similarities and/or differences of your implementation of ethernet re my Resolution Audio Cantata? Audio Doctor NJ, you have a PM. Best Andre |
So sorry I haven’t posted any videos yesterday or today; I have like 20 in my head. I was supposed to have a full house today with Sam from Memory Player and Al from SGM visiting, along with my good friend CTSooner. Sam and Al both fell ill and poor CTSooner lost his ride with Sam. So it will have to wait for another week or two. Sigh. I took advantage of the time to educate myself on HQPlayer, computer cases, how to fine tune a computer server (with the help from a too short phone call with Wisnon), Roon implementation, etc. And then dove head first into my collection of footers I’ve been amassing to audition. So let’s take a diversion shall we??? What footers do I have to play with you ask? 2 sets of 4 : StillPoints Ultra 5 2 sets of 4 : Ariamateria large 1 set of 4 : Ariamateria medium 1 set of 4 : Ariamateria small 1 set of 4 : IsoAcoustic Gaia 3 2 sets of 4 : Hardpoint Trinia Want to hear the Shun Mook footers. The StillPoints are mine. The rest are loaners. The Trinia are damn cool looking. And they make the gear sort of float and glide around a central axis. Functionally, picture a Symposium ball in a track on a platform and then another one on top in a track 90 degrees off axis. They are made of aluminum. I tried the two sets from front end to amps. My system didn’t like the Trinia. I found I lost my deep bottom end and it softened and mushed up what was left. It smeared my image specificity and pushed everything towards treble while giving the sound a glassy sensation, making it overly analytical and clinical. Seriously. I was quite surprised. The Trinia were strongly suggested by Mike Lavorgna, who really enjoys them. He had literally the polar opposite experience with his Trinia in his system. He described their sound as ,” the Trinia improved image focus and reduced smear and blur......and tightened the bass and improved micro-dynamics. wherever I put them.” Mike’s a solid listener with a solid system. Go figure. Just proves that these things really are system and equipment dependent!!! PM me for more details if interested. I had the large Ariamateria placed under the amps after the Trinia came out. I wanted to use the Ultra 5’s up front so I put the large Ariamateria under the amps. Deeper bass and sweater midrange. The soundstage deepened and the image came back into focus. I then placed the Ariamateria under the server (I keep 3 Ultra5’s under the DAC, and left the preamp un footed). Same affect as on the amps. Deeper bass, although a tad looser and a nice mellow midrange. Quick swap again and the Gaia replaced the medium Ariamateria. Tighter, cleaner, deeper. Fascinating! Ok, now for the Ultra 5’s under the server. Wow, deep crisp bass but a tad bright up top, overly clinical. I decided to keep the Gaia in for now. HRS says that you should use soft, rubberized style footers under folded metal cased equipment and solid or bearing base footers under milled case equipment. They sell their own versions of each (yes, I will be checking them out). But my session today supported this theory. The computer server is a folded metal case and it sounded best to me with the rubberized metal cased IsoAcoustic Gaia 3. When I have more help I will try the same product under the DAC, amps and preamp. I couldn’t do more then I did. I struggled changing from the Trinia to the Ariamateria with the amps and that was enough for me to do alone. I also want other ears to compare the Gaia and Ariamateria. The differences where subtle. Both are VERY affordable and neat products. I do think the Ultra 5’s under the milled casing of the DAC and Burmester feat may be the best (and most expensive) choice. But we shall see..... |
Do you know what the similarities and/or differences of your implementation of ethernet re my Resolution Audio Cantata? I Googled the Cantata to learn about it. The Ethernet is used as a method to extend the range of USB (using pont neuf), so this not really Ethernet DLNA or other protocols. Even when a router is used, the Ethernet is used simply as an extension for USB asynchronous protocol to gain greater distance. My Ethernet does not have USB protocol underneath. It has DLNA instead. It is using packets to move data, just like storing to a disk or sending email using Ethernet. However, the DLNA protocol makes sure that all of the packets are re-assembled in the endpoint and spooled from a FIFO and that the endpoint FIFO never runs out of data. It also identifies the file-type and sample-rate so the hardware knows what to do. The DLNA protocol is supported by many mass marketed devices from companies like Panasonic, Oppo etc... The important thing is that two decent audiophile players support DLNA, namely Jriver and Audirvana+. DLNA is not compatible with all players. Amarra does not support it and Roon does not support it. Roon uses a different Ethernet protocol than DLNA. The queueing model of DLNA and Roon's RAAT are different and non-compatible. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I Googled the Cantata to learn about it. The Ethernet is used as a method to extend the range of USB (using pont neuf), so this not really Ethernet DLNA or other protocols. Even when a router is used, the Ethernet is used simply as an extension for USB asynchronous protocol to gain greater distance.I'll check on that with Steve, but I don't use the pont neuf and used DLNA with it. Will report on that later. Thanks for the response. The important thing is that two decent audiophile players support DLNA, namely Jriver and Audirvana+Doesn't foobar also support DLNA? That was the one that I used while I was experimenting with the ethernet input, apart from Jriver. |
Great observations Matt. Thanks for doing that. I hope that we can also get the HRS footers to see if the extra price also means better sound. Sometimes, as well know, it actually does, but not always. What often looks like the same materials or the same implementation isn't. As we have said, the Stillpoints and HRS hard footers are usually better than the others out there to many folks who have actually done head to head comps. All too often we read posters or dealers telling us that they have a giant killer etc.. and they really may not since they only know what they sell and they use the words the company wants them to use. That's teh cool thing about what you are doing. You really don't have a dog in the fight unless it's something you have already owned. You may want to like your's better, but I also know that you are one of the few who can separate ownership and thinking your's is better. Wiht footers or platforms, you also have to take into consideration the stands you use them on etc... As you have already posted, there is no be all end all here and folks need to get these devices in their own systems to see which they like best. |
Quite a few new videos up on my YouTube channel for those that are watching.... https://youtu.be/KU6FcOSJjTA |
I finally installed my Environmental Protection EP-2500 surge suppressor and EP-2750 ground filters. I’ve had them since I built the room just sitting in boxes, and finally motivated myself to pull the circuit panel and re-wire it. They are hard wired into the circuit breaker box. Gonna give it all a day or two to settle and then listen. I’m hoping for an even lower noise floor and more depth of soundstage.. 👍🏻 |
Hi everyone. Benjamin Zwickel, owner of Mojo Audio. My primary goal in engineering DACs is to optimize them for Red Book, since it is the format that comprises the majority of all recorded music available today. One of my customers told me about this thread and suggested I loaned you guys one of our Mystique v3 DACs to review. As some of you may already know, we exhibited at two shows last year, AXPONA and RMAF, and our exhibits received "Best Sound" and "Best in Show" from TAS, as well as "Star Component" and "Product of the Year" from Audiophilia, and quite a few flattering mentions from other audiophile publications. http://www.mojo-audio.com/digital-to-analog-converters/ Please contact me through our website and I’ll make arrangements to loan you a demo unit. I would be quite interested in your impressions. ~ Benjamin |
btw Matt, the Trina are not intended for amplifiers. possibly the reason for the flabby bass. not sure if you tried them only on sources or preamps by themselves. when I read your comments last week somehow I missed that detail. if you still have them give that a try. if you did then we just move on. i continue to be very impressed by what they do in my system, where they are under my -3- Select II boxes plus under both my Tripoint units, the Elite and Troy Sig. every system context is unique with tweaks for sure. |
George I'm using the Netgear AC-1200 as a local router attached to the Netgear GS105 switch. I'm still having connection issue problems with high res and dsd. Are there better routers out there that may solve my problem. The switch was never set up as a network; I just added it to my router and turned it on. |
http://www.thelinearsolution.com/tcxo_router.html Some fancy new stuff for audiophiles. Not heard or tried them, Guess Sotm will be launching a line to soon & probably many more to come. Hope they are good. All the best Cheers |
Footer comparison: Selections: Ariamateria - 3 different sizes IsoAcoustics Gaia 3 StillPoints Ultra 5 Ceraballs Hardpoint Trinia Got a lot done actually. Compared a ton of footers. And under a ton of stuff. Short answer: Best under/which footer: Music Server / Gaia 3 DAC / StillPoints Ultra 5 Preamp / nothing made a huge difference (Maybe a touch better with Ultra 5's. Maybe) Amps / StillPoints Ultra 5 Need the Gaia 2 or the new Orea Bordeaux to try under the DAC and the amps. The Ariamateria are not great, but very affordable. The Gaia are stupid good for the money. There was a thought that the only reason the StillPoints beat the Gaia under the DAC and the amps was that the Gaia 3 were overwhelmed weight wise. I need to compare to the IsoAcoustics Gaia 2 or the new Orea Bordeaux. Did not like the Trinia, nor did my panel of listeners. (Sorry Mike). But there are so many footers out there. I'd like to still try the HRS Vortex and Nimbus, Symposium Roller blocks, ShunMook, Ansus and Franc Audio Ceramic Discs. But some are hard to get a hold of. I’ll report as I hear them. |
Matt, thanks for sharing. Isolation is so important and easy to implement and the results are outsized in their rewards. It makes sense to hold off until the Orea Bordeaux is available. FYI, I have found that the Gaias fall apart before hitting their weight limits, (implemented under speakers). I'm not surprised by your results with your Preamplifier. I've experienced marginal gains (so far) with my preamp....everything else has responded fabulously. Give Ingress Engineering's RollerBlocks a try. A very good value...in case you want to try something else. The Level 3 Version 2, specifically...Request the carbide bearings. Looking forward to your ongoing findings and results. |
I’m using Anvil Turntable Footers under my Preamp. Bruce McDougall’s Footer (designed for turntable applications though applicable elsewhere, dependant on weight limits) is an interesting product. It requires more care in setup and getting dialed in. His Footers are definitely worth checking out. They did and continue to make a difference under my preamp...which was the least responsive to the other footers I tried. |
Shakira - Mojo is sending me a Mystique shortly. Thanks. Neoshah - I’m trying to arrange for some ShunMook footers. I have been told by several people that they are musts on the audition list. I cant tell you guys how big a difference these footers make. There are more subtle results with some, but changing from one to another can be staggeringly different. Seriously. |
My favorite inexpensive footers are the ones from Mad Scientist. I have not tried his very latest but the ones he sells for $200 (for three) are way better than the best DH cones into Walker lead pucks. Some have liked these better than Stillpoints. I believe he gives 30 day money back......he is in New Zealand, however. |
I haven't even shared this with Matt yet, but I was given a few sets of the feet that BEL ( Brown Labs) used back in the day. Just inexpensive and simple hard rubber feet. I installed them under my Ayre integrated as well as the Ayre QX5/20 and my Steven Nugent built Mac mini with Paul Hynes LPS. Each piece sounded a bit better. Cleaner, tighter bass and a spec more stable soundstage. Not huge differences, but positive ones. These are a dirt cheap option for folks who have folded cases and don't have much money to play with. I think that Timbre Audio in Houston, TX sells them. Get in touch with Joe Heusi or his son Michael if you want to get a set. They are really cool guys with a brand new, built from scratch show room. (713) 523-0494. They have the Linn gear too. Matt, have you had the LINN in? I just realized that they have been left out and I know they do great digital. I have their lifestyle Kiko unit in the bedroom. It's decent for what it is, but their big gear is really good stuff. |