Gotcha. Thank you. Can't wait to hear the SX. |
PS - my Core Audio Mac Mini has a solid state hard drive. No spinning disks. |
Guido. Thank you.
RCA are #5 and #6.
When you say rca1 do you mean RCA #5? |
All well made points.
I am sharing the room with my wife as our office.
I have done all I can (there is now a carpet) with WAF being a major issue.
Speakers are as far out as permissible, window treatments will happen when in the budget and to her style and design, spacing is even.
Electrical is scheduled but I don't want to go too crazy since this will not be the system's final room. My AC is very clean as I live in the suburbs and have very few houses on my local grid.
I want to improve what I can. If I didn't compromise in the room I am in, I would have nothing at all.
Of course, room acoustics is much more impactful. But I have to make due with my restrictions and enjoy what I have.
But each and every point you made is correct, valid and accurate. |
Ypsilon, Audio Note, Concert Fidelity - all require a USB to spdif converter.
No issue with that, but $$$ for converter and cables.
I prefer to try something with a USB input first.... |
Not yet. But I need to. That room needs SO much work and I have no time. Work and kids..... |
Listening Room:
19'x14.5'
Speakers are centered on the long wall, about 8.5' apart and 18" from front wall to the back of the speakers. I am seated 8.5-9' from the front of the speakers (essentially an equilateral triangle) and the rear wall is 3' behind my head. |
I can push the rack back and pull the speakers out 8-10". I will try that tomorrow.
Steve N. - we have spoken. I am awaiting your return from the show for us to proceed to audition. You have my email already.
I have heard suggestions of Audio Note, Lampizator, Ypsilon and Concert Fidelity enough to take note. I have heard Accustic Arts Tube DAC 2 mk II less then I expected as it also has a very good reputation for tubed DAC's. |
Guf, are you running your Lampy with the off ramp 5? Or direct in with USB and no off ramp?
Are you using stock tubes, or have you rolled them? |
Any opinions on Wavelength Crimson HS USB DAC?
Maybe the non-up sampling transcendental version? Or the super up sampling denominator version? |
An in store audition is not that helpful to me; I need the unit in my room to directly compare... There are so may factors in good performance; the room is different, amps, pre-amps, cables, AC.....
I think there is a NJ dealer for Aesthetix. I'll call. I dont' want to overdo it on the shootout though. I typically find that comparing more then 3 units at a time is fatiguing and difficult. With the Aesthetix it would be 6. It may need to be over a few days, and time is hard for me to come by. |
You guys are so funny! You are enabling my pathologies!!!
I'll call him tomorrow. |
I just remembered I bought a Rotel amp from John when I was in college. For John's sake, and mine, I refuse to say how long ago that was.... lol
Will call him today. Very curious as to what he has to say... |
Update:
Lampizator Big6 due to arrive 5/27
Rowland Aeris due to arrive 5/29 - I bought one on the 'gon instead of borrowing one. Price was too good to pass up.
PS Audio DirectStream due to ship 6/2
Accustic Arts DAC to arrive 6/4
OverDrive SE will ship 6/2, Hopefully to arrive by end of that week.
So all should be in house by 6/6.
I also have an offer for someone to bring over a Meitner MA1.
I will call Audio Connection Monday. |
Update:
Lampy Big6 arrived today. It is in a far different class then my PS Perfectwave 2. So much more music and soul. Soundstage is expansive (is that a real word?) and it has no limits up top or down low. Vocals are stunning and it puts the performers right there in the room with me like the PW2 just couldn't.
With the Lampy here, I made a decision which I hope won't disappoint too many of you. I decided to cancel the order for the Accustic Arts DAC. The Lampy is stunning, and if I had to stop right here I would be happy forever. Shipping fees on the AA DAC coming and going were going to exceed $500- (they insisted on 3 day express) and the Lampy is so good that I feel comfortable not pursuing the AA. If shipping were not an issue, I'd still want to bring it in. Maybe John at Audio Connection can arrange an Aesthetix audition (I still haven't called him, been so busy). We shall see.
Although the differences between DAC's is evident and noticeable, they are still subtle compared to, say, the difference between pre-amps. I learned that I really need at least one more pair of ears to give everyone a reliable opinion...
I still have the PS Audio DirectStream, OverDrive SE and Aeris on the way; they are all solid state. I think I can easily find a keeper amongst those 4 (or 5 if I can hear the Aesthetix). |
Bought the Big6 pre-owned. It has about 600-800 hours on it from what I understand. Currently listening to the stock tubes, but I got some to roll into as well. It's stunning in its stock form, so I can't wait to hear what it can do with other tubes.
I'm dying to hear how the Solid State contenders stack up. |
Understood.
I already decided that if I end up choosing anything other then the OverDrive SE (and I have high hopes for that particular unit because it is actually designed and built for exactly what I need, computer audio files), then I owe it to myself to try out either the Berkeley or Offramp USB to spdif converter. |
Steve said the OverDrive SE essentially has an Off-Ramp 5 inside it. So an external OR5 would be redundant.
I can't wait to get them all in! |
I have heard great things about the AA.
The shipping fees were a bit tough to swallow with such good gear in my list already.
Sorry. |
I don't think the computer can output 2 different USB audio devices at once.
No biggie, I'll figure something out.
I'll keep everyone updated as things cook and stew.
The OverDrive SE should be here mid to late next week, as well as the DS. |
Gopher and HiFial -
I think I speak for everyone here when I ask that you take this outside please.
I have noting to add until my DAC's arrive, so I welcome anyone elses input on anyting dac related that add's to this threads topic. But I don't think we all want to get in the middle of what you guys are doing...
Thanks. |
Work schedule, and wife's b-day take precedence. So busy. I promise I'll call CTsooner!
All are great DAC's. I'm sure I'd be happy with any of them. It's just finding the right synergy for my system and my tastes.
Steve, thanks for the offer, but I just don't have any more to invest right now. I have money in on your Overdrive, credit card charge on the DS and outright purchase of the Aeris and Big 6. I'm tapped.
Aeris arrives Friday. I will try to compare Aeris and Big6 over the weekend.
Sorry for the wait, I'm dying to get them all in as well. |
I went with the brand new unit. Not the kit.
Fortunately for me, the Aeris, Big6 and OverDrive SE are all pre-owned or demo units so they are well broken in. The DS will be the only one that will require a week or 2 of break in (sigh). I will just put on some internet Sirius radio and let her play for 2 weeks...
I wish I had a second system to run so my primary would not be locked up for that time.
The Aeris arrived today. I will plug her in tonight and see her shine. I'm honestly very curious as to how the Aeris compares to the Lampy. I have a friend who swears by the Aeris; a friend whose ears I trust implicitly. He ditched his pre-amp after using his Aeris and runs straight to the amps(which would be great since my pre was a fortune and I could use that extra cha-ching since I'm heading towards an awesome stereo, and a divorce all at the same time!!!!!).
But my pre-amp currently adds SO much to my music I can't imagine giving it up. Which is a ridiculous statement because a pre-amp is not supposed to add anything. But the Criterion adds passion and emotion and involvement and happiness (Audiophile phrases, not Hifi phrases)....
Steve - Thank you very much for the extras! I can't wait!
All - I hope to provide you with honest and clear explanations. I apologize in advance if my communication of the differences is disappointing or vague. I'm actually starting to get nervous about posting my results. ;) I'll just say it like I hear it. |
FYI - I am leaving for Boston today and won't be back until Wed. I'm following on my phone but no updates will be posted.
Aeris and DS will cook while I am away. |
For those interested. Branislav just posted a comparison between the Lampy Big 6 and the Concert Fidelity DAC-040 (without battery option):
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rdgtl&1317969445&openflup&143&4#143
Summary: "Concert Fidelity slightly more impressive, for what its worth, with electronic music but Lamp more musical with most everything else...wish I could keep both and maybe I will but I might have to let Concert Fidelity go in the future."
Thought that comparison belongs in this thread. It certainly fits the thread title. |
Wisnon - I am intrigued by that Allnic DAC. But I am going to wait and decide amongst these for now. As the thread states, my primary goal is the best Red Book/16-44 sound I can get.
HiFial - I will call Merrill and see if he will donate his MA-1 to the round-up. He offered once already so I'm sure he will oblige. I want to wait until I'm done with the ones I have. I need to re-claim some of my investment...
Guido - Thanks! |
OK. First impressions.
I think everyone knows my system. If not, check out my Virtual System, I am pretty sure it's current.
Thanks to Merrill of Merrill Audio for lending me a pair of his 2 meter single ended and balanced interconnects to compare dac's with as little variation as possible.
I use a variety of songs (preset list on Amara)including pop, rock, classical, broadway, movie soundtrack, jazz and blues. About 28 songs total; but I don't listen to the whole song sometimes.
To me, the gold standard is to forget I'm listening critically and get lost in the music. I will point out hifi characteristics, but my final choice will be the one that makes music the best IN MY SYSTEM, TO MY EARS. Take what I say with a grain of salt as I am not a professional reviewer.
Aeris vs. Big 6:
I am trying to give each unit the best chance possible, so burn in is very important. My Big6 has plenty of time on it, so that's cooked. As I started to listent to the Aeris it became apparent very quickly that it is younger then I thought it would be. I think the last owner didn't use it that much. I am waiting to get a number from him to know for sure, but I am pretty sure it needs a lot more cooking...
Jeff Rowland is well known to require almost 1000 hours to really sound it's best. I started cooking the Aeris today. I'm hoping its got at least a few hundred hours on it, but it doesn't sound like it does yet (or it's not as good as I thought it was going to be). So all of my comments are made on what I am assuming is an not yet burned in Aeris. Please keep that in mind. I will continue to offer comments as it burns in.
Frist impressions:
The Big6 is clearly hand built. The front plate is nicely finished and looks professional. The box is wood and the top is acrylic, all well put together. The point to point is well executed and the tubes are well seated; it's built with passion and love, but NOT built in a high tech facility. I was surprised how light it was.
The Aeris is heavy ! It weighs as much as a VW Beetle and is built like a Breguet watch (and is just as beautiful). The external power supply is equally heavy and well built. It looks as if it were built in the MacLaren or Ferrari plant.
Not that any of that really matters. But it does suggest reliability.
The Aeris locked in the moment I hooked it up (USB only)and worked flawlessly. It took a bit of figuring out to get the Big 6 to work. That may just be due to the fact that the Big 6 came first; I think I needed to figure out the order of USB plug, close Amarra, re-assign USB output, and re-open Amarra. I'll find out when I hook the Big 6 back in again if that protocol works or it needs some fenagling.
The Big 6 is what everyone says it is. It stomped on my PS Audio PWII, chewed it up and spit out transistors and copper. From the moment I turned it on, music poured from my speakers. I could have stopped the shoot-out before it even started. With this design I found no limits on top or bottom end. The highs flowed with no sibilence, brightness or restrictions; very musical and engaging. The lows were surprisingly extended, reaching even lower then the PS PWII although I think there was a teeny bit of unbridled power down there; the reigns were held but not as tightly as with the Aeris.
Mids were magic, as you would expect. Not colored. Not dark. Not warm. Just right. Female vocals were simply stunning and deep male voices resonated just right. The only style of music it struggled with was pop/electronic. it seamed to lose a bit of grip with a complex drum kit rhythm, synthesizers blaring and electric guitar jamming. But with more classic Rock it came right back in line. Jazz, Blues, etc were equally wonderful and engaging. I forgot I was listening several times and cauhght myself tapping and singing along, eyes closed, lost in the music. Classical was defined and expansive, with nice dynamics (although not what the Aeris provided from a dynamic standpoint).
The Big 6 had a wider soundstage but the Aeris's was deeper. Big 6 put every instrument and performer where it belonged and defined it nicely. I could use a laser pointer to identify performers with the Aeris. The Big 6 threw sound outside the speakers, the Aeris did not.
I used the stock tubes with the Big 6 to be fair, although I have heard that it just gets better once swapping tubes (and I have a few to play with).
The Aeris was the picture of accuracy. Highs were extended, but bright at times and mid's had an added presence, almost like a reverb to be honest. Lows were tight, very well controlled. There was music for certain, but something was in the way; like eating pasta thats just a bit harder/less cooked then Al-Dente.
This DAC is the reference for my feiend Guido Corona who is a self-proclaimed Rowland groupie, but has a great ear that I have learned to trust over time; and he IS a professional reviewer. With his urging to hear the Aeris, I have to assume that my Aeris is young and will grow into something special. I WANT to like the Aeris. But what I heard was more Hi-Fi and less Music. Considering the multitude of top notch reviews about the Aeris, I have to assume it needs more time to show it's true colors.
if I had to chose now, the choice would be obvious. But I don't (since I own both of them) and I want to give myself and you all a true comparison. So I'm running Sirius Sat through the computer via USB to the Aeris and I'll let it simmer for a week or two. Hopefully the previous owner can get back to me and tell me how much time it has on it.
Let me know if there are any questions.
OK, let the criticism begin!!! lol.... |
4orreal - sorry. There are dozens of DAC's. If anyone wants to send me a DAC to add to the shoutout, feel free.
I have already been contacted by one small manufacturer to get his product in my shoutout. I'm happy to listen if anyone wants, but opinions will be honest and unrestricted....
I chose the small list for my specific needs, from opinions and suggestions from you guys and reviews in print and on-line. I am confident I will find a keeper.
And no, I haven't called John at Audio Connection yet. I've been bad. I will though, I swear. |
Update on Aeris:
I just confirmed that the Aeris is essentially brand new. It has between 45 and 90 hours on it. Typically Rowland gear needs 500+ hours to really blossom. Crapburgers!!! I was really hoping it was burned in already.....
That will delay things significantly regarding my reviews.
The OverDrive SE will be burned in already when it arrives mid to late next week. So that will be the next up to compare with the Lampy. The DS will be arriving at the same time next week, but it needs at least a week on it before I can compare.
Any ideas on the easiest, uninterrupted source for USB music to burn in 2 DAC's simultaneously????
Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!! |
Can I use an iPod somehow? |
The Aeris will be done burning in on Tuesday 6/24. That'l put 600 hours on it, which apparently is what it needs to really shine.
Having owned (and still own - up for Sale) a Rowland Capri S2 preamp I can confirm that Rowland gear really takes a long time to reach full potential. Fortunately, Guido was kind enough to nicely burn in my Criterion before selling it to me.
I will post next when the OverDrive SE and DS arrive.
|
Lol. I don't even listen until it's ready. Especially a DAC.
DAC's on, getting source from computer on-line radio station, running into my powered on pre-amp, amps off.
That's why it helps to have people who know how long break in will be. I just let 'er run. And listen when she's done cooking.
You don't keep tasting your thanksgiving turkey before it's done cooking, do you? ;) |
I have a friend who slow roasts a Briscuit over 36h. And he does taste it to adjust seasoning along the way. So that blows my culinary analogy.
Trust me. I hate the wait!!! Especially in this case.
Sorry guys. Patience, as they say, is a virtue.... |
I'm sorry guys. I think I would be doing everyone (and myself) an injustice by rushing the reviews. I have spent a significant amount of both time and money to acquire these units. I want to do it right. I may not wait 800 hours Guido, but I think a good 3-4 weeks of constant zero's and one's is prudent to give each unit a fighting chance.
I may lose a few readers to the time delay, but those who want to know will follow along. I actually think we have developed a great group here. I, for one, am enjoying the ride. |
Update:
My DirectStream is delayed. They are waiting for displays. Sigh.
They are expecting it to ship NEXT Monday (6/9). Maybe this Friday.
I asked the representative if they would be willing to keep it there and burn it in for 2 weeks, 24/7 through the USB port. To my surprise, she said she would. Then I have 30 days from the time I get it (with 336 hours already on it).
So my new arrival date is around Mon to Wed (6/23-6/25). I will be able to give it a decent listen upon arrival though, which is nice.
I may even have her keep it 3 weeks, at which time my Aeris will also be done so I'll be able to directly compare them. |
Merrill knew about it, and told me. It is not yet available.
Merrill is working on some new gear and had a few days to offer the MA1 to me now. I think he will need it for a while after that.
I said thank you and took the opportunity. :) |
I just got tracking #'s and confirmation from Steve at Empirical Audio that my OverDrive SE and other goodies are in route via 2-day air!
Yay!!!! |
Can't wait. Looking forward to trying out the other gear as well. Thanks!
As much as I love my preamp, I'd love to go DAC direct to amps. But my preamp gives me magic I have yet to beat with a direct run. |
Update:
Just spoke with John from Audio Connection, he's about 25 min from my house. He will be getting in an Aesthetix Romulus Signature (Same unit as the Pandora Signature DAC, but with a drawer). Once it's fully burned in, I get dibs for a 24h in home audition. So all of you Aesthetix fans can be satiated. :)
The Overdrive SE is arriving tomorrow. If it comes early enough, I'll have opinions by tomorrow night.... |
Not a broken record JaFox; I appreciate your input! I appreciate everyone's input!!
Can you point me in the best direction to get my hands on them? And what the cost would be?
--
I heard back from Steve. It is, in fact, a driver issue. I'll upload it in the morning and play some more. I'm dying to hear the OverDrive! It's tiny compared to the Lampy and diminutive next to the Aeris. |
Grannyring - Tya. Too bad I'm not that lucky with my lottery tickets!
Agear - Thats good to know that Lampy has a solid tech in my area if I ever wander down the Lampy path in the future. Dac's, by definition, pretty much have expiration dates as tech continues to pulse forward.
Kernelbob - I love it. And you were right. But I know that I know very little, and prove it every day!!! And my kids remind me of this constantly!
AudioLabyrinth - I have every intention of trying each DAC with volume controls direct to the amps. Steve from EA was generous enough to send me his FInal Drive magic boxes that supposedly make running these DAC's direct a true revelation. Trust me, I'd love to re-acquire the big $$$$$ I put into my pre-amp. But for now, the Criterion does things that no other pre-amp has ever shown me, and I'm not rushing to get rid of it. |
Update:
I spent 3 hours listening to the Aeris and the Big6 today. I started with the Big6 this time.
I am waiting to clarify a driver download question with Steve, and then I will get the OverDrive SE up and running.
I have to say that if some think the Big6 is limited on the top end or has any lack of bottom end because of its tube genetics, they are wrong. The highs are extended, complex, detailed and made the hair on the back of my neck stand straight time and time again. The base is deep, full and rich; and left me wanting for nothing. Yes, the Aeris controls the lower end a bit more tightly and it has a tad more punch, but I would say the Big6 is more natural on the bottom end, more "live". In fact, that sums up the biggest difference between the 2; the Big6 persistently gave me a more "live" presentation. The midrange is clearly warmer then the Aeris; but its not colored, it's just music.
I found vocals to shine most on the Big6, while classical passages/movie soundtracks, and rock and roll sounded better on the Aeris. Jazz and Blues were equally engaging on both, just different.
The Aeris is more accurate, more defined. The soundstage of the Big6 is deeper and wider with the Aeris although not by much, but the Aeris does a better job of giving each performer's defined position in that space. The Aeris seamed to highlight the subtle differences between quiet and loud passages with a better sense of dynamics, but again it was not by much.
After hours of going back and forth I came to the thought that the differences were not in live vs recorded or hifi vs warmth, they were more like listening to the music in different venues; or even the same venues with difference acoustic treatments. A jazz club with 50 patrons, or 200…. Carnagie vs Vienna Opera House…
As with any tube rig, I understand that rolling tubes will allow me to fine tune the sound. I also understand, JaFox, that the UN 99 made a dramatic difference to you; and I sincerely appreciate your generous offer. But I don't think the Big6 needs to be improved upon, it's stunning as it is (at least in my system). Rolling tubes will only change the flavor of the magic.
I could keep either and never even think of listening to another DAC. Anyone who is reading this could buy either and live happily ever after. But I need to deiced which to keep of these 2, and I decided to keep the Aeris….
And here's why…
1) I think the Aeris is still young and will offer even more as time goes on
2) The build quality of the Big6 is excellent, but he Aeris is a tank built by Cartier.
3) I liked the tone that the Aeris imparted a bit more then the Big6 in my system. This is totally personal and has no objective foundation. To me, I fell into the music and forgot I was auditioning gear more frequently with the Aeris.
4) Eventually I will either move my gear to a dedicated room, or treat my room with acoustic treatments to control the reflections a bit better. My room will soften up a bit as a result and I am worried that the Big6 will soften too much.
5) Lampy is a brilliant designer and they now have distribution in the US. I expect them to grow and stabilize. But, and I HATE saying this, I am ever concerned about the stability of a small Polish manufacturer is this crazy economy and long term maintenance is a concern.
6) I like buying US when I can. Call me a gun toting, card carrying patriot. But if I can get equal performance and enjoyment out of 2 options I will try to go US built when I can.
So that's it. Step one is compete. I have made my first decision. I am sure many of you are unhappy with it. I think I have given these 2 enough time to make an educated and reasonable decision. I know some think I need weeks to months to truly compare, but I have neither the patience nor the time to do that. I want to get back to just listening and enjoying.
Now I am down to the Aeris, the OverDrive SE (which is the next showdown), the PS Audio DS and the Aesthetix.
All of these are made in the US.
Rowland, PS Audio and Aesthetix are huge companies and are very stable. Empiircal Audio and Steve have been around for a LONG time and even if his company folds (which I highly doubt will happen), he will be around and available to service his gear for a long long time, right here in the US. In this regard, the OverDrive is the only underdog, sort of.
OK, let the comments and complaints fly. |
Bill_K - I agree. I was responding to someone else's comment that the Lampy would sound its best with an external USB to spdif converter. The same can, I'm sure, be said for the Aeris and DS DAC's. The only DAC with a reliably superior USB input is the AE OverDrive SE.
That said, I can not overstate how freakin good both the Aeris and Big6 are fed through the USB!!!!
I am just saying that I don't want to go down the external USB/spdif converter road right now. |
Update:
#1 - The EA OverDrive SE is up and running. Once I got the drivers running, everything worked instantly. I will cook it for 2 solid days before listening.
#2 -I called my Uncle to wish him a happy birthday. This is the uncle who introduced me to high end audio when I was 11. He still has an old old tube system (Audio Research pre and amp, B&W speakers, Nakamichi azimuth correcting tape deck, Linn table/Denon cartridge). He went through a lot of tube gear in his day, but barely listens anymore. We started talking audiophile nervosa and I told him about the Big6 and my DAC shootout. I mentioned the UN VT-99 and he went though his boxes of tubes and actually freakin had a matched pair! He has never sold any of his tube collection and probably never will (I am praying I inherit that some day!). He brought them over 4 hours ago; we let them warm up for 2 hours in the Big6 (which I had already packed up) and he and I sat down for some bonding and nephew/uncle time….
Here, for all those who demanded an audition of the UN VT-99 rolled Lampy Big6, are some impressions of my time with my Uncle (and the UN tubes):
It is amazing how a passion for music and the gear can bring two people of such different ages together!
The Lampy was unquestionably different. The upper levels had more energy, more extension and seamed to be surrounded by a layer of realism that was not there before. Like cleaning a window that you didn't really know had a little dirt on it. The lower frequencies were slightly (if at all) deeper but clearly held control a tad better then with the other tubes. The mid's were, by-in-large unchanged. Equally musical and engaging, but no more so then before the rolling. The soundstage expanded in both width, depth and most interestingly, in height. There was more above me then before. The soundstage opened; but to me it felt a bit artificial whereas the OEM tubes seamed to present a more realistic spacial image. Dynamics were a bit more, well…. more. Subtle transitions between quiet passages and crescendo seamed more meticulous, more defined. Leading and trailing edges were clearly more defined (although that is my interpretation since I have never truly figured out officially what a leading and trailing edge are. lol)
Overall I have to concur that the UN tubes take the Big6 to the next level. I would, now that I HAVE heard them, still say that they are not "transcendental".
Does it change my decision?
No. But it flatly tells me that if someone where looking for a new DAC and had access to these difficult to find (unless your audio uncle happens to blow your mind and have a matched set) tubes, that at about $2K less retail, the Big6 is a MUCH better deal then the Aeris. They are comparable in performance in every conceivable way. With the UN tubes, I liked the Big6 about 40% more then with the OEM tubes; and on certain types of music it clearly bests the Aeris.
But I still need to pick ONE. And I am sticking to my choice. This has nothing to do with tube vs solid state since they both provide SOTA performance and they actually sounded MORE similar with the UN tubes in the Big6 then with the OEM tubes. I guess its true that as you get closer to perfection, the gear starts to sound more and more similar.
I hope that satisfies everyone. Serendipity is a wonderful thing.
As to the thought that the Lampy has an inferior USB port that requires an external USB to SPDIF converter, I made the active decision that I am looking for a one box DAC solution and I don't want to deal with a separate USB to SPDIF converter, another digital cable AND another power cord expense; at least not while deciding on a DAC. Maybe after I have chosen one I will consider it, if it is not the OverDrive (since the overdrive has one built in). |
To all: I set out to pick the best DAC for me, for my needs, and report those findings to those who were interested. To be Frank, I had NO IDEA my thread would become this watched! I picked DAC's based on reputation, red book performance, build quality and all of your recommendations (tube vs SS made no difference to me). I started buying and getting deposits on DAC's to audition in my home; I have a huge amount invested in all of these DAC's but it was the only way to get them all here, in my room.
My comments and criticisms are honest, but they are mine. I understand that there is always a tube, power cord, vibration device, widget, flockazinga, or uber accessory to make a particular piece of kit better. I had the luxury of having the Big6 in and truly enjoying it, and even serendipitously finding the exact tube you guys all insisted I try with the Big6 to get the most out of it.
I sincerely understand that one of the best things about tube gear is the ability to tweak. Tube roll, apply tube dampers, cryogenic tubes, Chinese/Russion/Klingon NOS, I get it. And I get that some of you feel that if I am not willing to go down that road and tube roll, accessorize, etc then I am not giving that particular tube unit a fair chance to truly shine. I totally get it! I understand and I don't disagree.
My simplest response is that, well, tweaking to that extent is not my thing. There, I said it. I have a very obsessive compulsive personality (duh, look at the lengths I have gone through to get these DAC's into my house because I just NEEDED to try them all) but I find that I can get so sucked down the road of obsessive tweaking that I lose sight of just enjoying the music. I've done it before and I don't want to go there again. For the same reason, I don't spend the extra money or time upgrading my fuses, caps, XLR receptacles or anything with my SS gear. It's a slippery slope that I fall right down!
Also, to be honest, I don't truly think its mandatory to tube roll and accessorize to enjoy a tubed piece of kit. I understand that every manufacturer has a retail price point they want to stay within, and I totally get that they need to secure sufficient inventory to market and produce volume to make a living (thus eliminating their ability to include that UN tube, or any other, that truly makes their unit sing). But I trust these boutique designers (like Lampizator) to pick a solid, reliable, long lived tube that gives them the sound they want to impress reviewers and customers without needing to roll tubes. For $8k, that Big6 blew me away (with or without the UN tubes). There are better tubed and SS DAC's out there that every one of you would sell your Big6 (even with the perfect tubes) and upgrade to. I needed to look to other non-audio-factors to help make my decision as to which to keep; both were that good. But I would be lying if I didn't say that one of those other factors was that the Aeris is SS and won't make me constantly think there is a better tube/accessory out there to improve upon my already incredible sounding Big6; and then worry 2 years from now that it doesn't sound as good as it did last year, or did it, and where am I going to secure a sufficient supply of UN tubes to keep my music flowing for years. I could have enjoyed the stock Big6 and not thought about anything else to be flatly honest; again, it's THAT good! But the Aeris did equally well. I am auditioning 5 DAC's total. I can only keep one. I'm going to piss off, disappoint, frustrate, annoy, infuriate, confuse or insult someone along the way no matter what I say (obviously). Does that mean I should just keep the rest of the shoutout to myself? I prefer not as I enjoy your input and typing my "mini reviews" helps me to process and focus my decisions. But realize that I spend a LOT of time with each "Update." Each takes me at least an hour or two to process, condense and express. I hope that a few of you are getting something useful out of this.
If, to some of you, this means that I am not a true tube aficionado and should stick with SS gear, maybe you are right. I love some tube gear and some SS gear. When I get the Romulus DAC in, it will be for only 24h and I will not have the opportunity to tweak, tube swap or anything - it will just have to stand on its own two feet, as I let the Big6. I will say it like I hear it, as I have all along.
I am selling the Big6 to a very lucky Audiogoner, and I encourage him to jump on this thread and tweak/roll/modify to his hearts content and report his findings. I think that would be great!
To be honest, the Aeris is f'in amazing and may be the one for me; we shall see. I am scared sh/+less that I am NOT going to like the EA OverDrive SE as much, because Steve has been ridiculously nice, available, responsive, courteous and amazingly knowledgeable and I WANT to like it the most so his kit "wins" the shoutout. I am sensitive to, and desperately want to favor the little guys (Lampy and EA) since they are so dependent on good reports from people like us and forum threads like this to succeed.
Lampy has nothing to be disappointed with. That Big6 is a winner through and through! I am sure the overDrive SE will be the same. Rowland is a big company with a lot of $$$$ and R&D behind them, as is PS Audio. Rowland and PS both couldn't give a you know what about my thread....
Ok. Back to your regular programming. I needed to get that off my chest!
Sorry for any typos, I did this on my iPad. Auto correct and all.... |
No doubt, Erik, but I am guessing that the results of this thread have the potential of affecting EA and Lampizator more them PS Audio. The DirectStream has been getting enuf good press that even if I say it sucks (which I doubt I would) , I can't imagine it would have any significant bearing on his sales/bottom line.
If, however, I chose the DirectStream over all the others, I can't help but think it would help his sales (or at least be referred to as a positive review on his site).
Don't mean to make this sound like ego. Just clarifying the statement. |
Sorry all. Life got in the way again.
I plan on doing the Aeris vs. ODSE final shootout tomorrow morning.
Maybe play with the DS if I have time. |
Agear - best quote ever in Audiophile obsession ... "you should not bail simply due to extra $ or logistical hassles." You, sir, are hard core!!! I tip my gold coated LP demagnetizer to you my friend. :)
Kana813 - John at Audio Connection is waiting for a new Romulus Signature to come in. No clue if it has a VC. I told him that when it has 400-500 hours on it to call me and I will audition.
Update: today at 2'ish the EA OverDrive will have 48 straight hours on it. But I won't be able to get to it until tomorrow morning. Hopefully I will have first impressions for you all by tomorrow night. |
Update Addendum:
I asked and Steve told me that he sells about 10 OD's a year. Most just order them and don't use the trial period. What he does is have you pay in full up front and then sends you his demo unit. If you like it, you send it back and he builds you a brand new one and sends it out. If you don't want to keep it, he refunds the money in full minus shipping when he receives the demo back. He said he has only had 4 people (not including me) go the Demo approach and only 1 has chosen not to purchase.
He also mentioned that he is constantly tweaking and upgrading his OverDrive design and he has many customers who send them back for upgrades as they become available. I do not know what the fee for these upgrades is other then shipping fees.
I forgot to mention that I now understand why the DAC module has a mohawk. It gets pretty darn hot. Not burning hot mind you, but it does not run cool. The power unit as well, although not as hot as the DAC got. The Aeris runs cold, all the time. |
UPDATE:
First off, I may have secured access to a Meitner MA-1. Would be fun to add that to my shootout. It's available to me if I'm patient, i think…
Second, the Flockazinga was not used during this session. ;)
As with my other sessions, I listened to the DAC using a Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB from my Mac Mini running iTunes and Amarra, Merrill Audio's XLR interconnects (generously lent by Merrill for this shootout, and they are amazing - I will likely buy myself 2 pair when I am done with this shootout), and used my Shunyata Zitron Alpha Digital PC direct to the wall. All is sitting on my Adona SR4 rack. The DAC is running through my Jeff Rowland Battery powered Criterion pre-amp running via Shunyata ZiTron Anaconda balanced 1.5m cables to my Merrill Veritas mono blocks. Then finally through Audience AU24SE shotgun runs to the Vienna Acoustics The Music speakers.
First listen of the EA ODSE (Empirical Audio Over Drive SE is too long to keep typing).
Physical description - It is a set of 2 modules, power and formal DAC. These units are tiny tanks. I'm guessing aluminum or some other lightweight, stiff metal. Very attractive and very solid. An industrial look; but refined and well implemented. Nicely finished and not at all looking like it came from a garage or one man show (nicely done Steve). My first though was that it looked like the younger smaller silver cousins of that little black robot from Star Wars that Chewbaca growled at and scared away; but one of the cousins has a mohawk. ;)
I like the layout of toggles (projected and recessed) and a small volume knob that has a nice feel to it while rotating. The recessed toggles were difficult to flip, but they really are infrequently used and I can understand his decision to use them recessed. I will leave Steve to explain the coupling cap and Hynes upgrades and all of that (please chime in as you want). The 2 units are connected via a power umbilical that is well made and easy to connect. The connectors on the back hold PC, USB, XLR very well and were well laid out with nothing difficult to connect or disconnect. Its staggeringly small compared to the Big6 Lampy and about half the size of my Aeris. The two modules CAN NOT be stacked, which is too bad because they are begging to go for a piggy back ride (maybe there is some type of creative divider/shelf that can be designed to put above the power module so the DAC can jump on top?). I know that we can adjust the volume from the computer so I don't need to get my lazy A$$ off the couch if i'm running direct (which I didn't yet), but I would still like a tiny remote that controlled only volume directly on the DAC. But knowing Steve, he has a good reason it's not available...
The instruction manual is very well layed out/written and very easy to follow. And Steve is ridiculously available to answer questions via email or on the phone within a more then reasonable time frame.
As I mentioned earlier, I did need to upload a driver for my Mac to find the DAC. But once that was loaded into the computer, it linked instantly and has not been an issue since. No real I.T. knowledge needed to get it going. My Amarra software instantly recognized it and I was up and running. I ran exclusively 16/44 source so I have NO idea how it sounds with hi-res, nor is that the purpose of this thread. I listen almost exclusively to 16/44.
The ODSE is FULLY broken in and I gave it another 3 full days of running before I listened in my room. The Aeris has only 220 hours on it (maybe 260 if you add the small amount the first owner put on it, maybe); and it needs anywhere between 600 and 800 hours to fully bloom. I'm running it day and night to get those hours on though. And it sounds better each 50 hours that gets added…
Sound - WOW is this hard!!! I listened to my 33 song list twice, first through the ODSE and then through the Aeris. I will repeat the entire process in a few days starting first with the Aeris. I liked the ODSE more when i listened to the ODSE, and then I liked the Aeris more when I listened to the Aeris…. Is that useful to anyone???? LOL!!!!!
Honestly, what it says is that Steve is an amazing designer and knows his stuff! The ODSE is, in every way, the equal to the Big6 and the Aeris, and may surpass it in certain ways.
the Aeris seamed to dip a tad lower, and control that bottom a hair better. Although the only time you noticed was listening to the Aeris. I was never wanting for more with the ODSE, and I never thought it sounded sloppy or lose; always tight and proper. The same on the top end, the highs seamed to linger and stretch a scotch higher with the Aeris then the ODSE. I think, in all fairness, that there is a synergy between the Rowland Pre-amp and DAC that adds significantly to that. I am very curious to see if that will change when I run the ODSE direct to the amps via the Final Drives (I promise that will happen, but I want to run these 2 sessions first); although the Criterion is crazy resolving… I don't mean to say that the Aeris is formally more extended as I felt the extension on both ends was a bit "HiFi" and will probably go away once the Aeris burns in thoroughly (I hope). I will say that the music up top and down low was equally enjoyable with both. I felt as if there was more complexity in the Aeris, and more layering in the ODSE if that makes any sense at all… I honestly thought I heard further into the music on the ODSE, like there was more there.
Leading edges and trailing edges were both equally reproduced and made them both wonderfully enticing. No winner there…
The mids were interesting. What the ODSE did with the cello, french horn, and higher registers of a base guitar or base cello was pure and unadulterated magic! Real, palpable, feel the hairs on your neck stand on end magic. The Aeris didn't do this. Male vocals, well, uh, sang….. hehe… Seriously, what Steve did makes everything in the mid section incomparable. The Aeris (currently) excels a bit more on the top and bottom end, but I have been told that this is to be expected in the Aeris's road to finality, at which time it becomes a music making magic monster. I can't tell you how I wish the Aeris were fully broken in!!! I think the Aeris made the female voice a bit more lush while the ODSE made her sound more demure; both offered vocal dynamics and equal upper and lower extension.
Lets talk soundstage and imaging. The AE should be called the Holographic OverDrive SE Generator! I have not had such a deep, delineated stage in front of me in my room. The Aeris gave me more top to bottom. Left to right is equal, but the ODSE has a front to back stage that could practically be measured with a tape measure at about 8 feet, which put some of the performers behind my glass door and enjoying the outdoors on my back patio. Performers were meticulously placed in their proper spot and had a sense of belonging in the X, Y and Z axis. The Aeris did not do this as well. It did is very well, but not as well as the ODSE.
All music belonged and sounded wonderful on both DAC's.
I listened to 33 songs on the ODSE and didn't even notice the time had passed. That says a lot! I had to force myself to keep focusing with both. I honestly gave less time to the Aeris on this go round since I was getting a bit tired (I was up until 2:30 last night), so I jumped through a few of my songs on the Aeris. Next go round the Aeris will get first shot.
I apologize if I used some terms that are very subjective, but these are both so good that I need to really fight to identify differences and something to grasp onto so I can make a decision between the two.
Both are engaging, both are musical, both are dynamic. Round 2 to follow in a few days. I'm hoping that another hundred hours or so will really help the Aeris get closer its final character.
As of this very second, I actually think I would keep the ODSE. But the fact that the Aeris is not fully broken in makes me want to wait until it has 600 hours on it, at least, to make a final decision. I don't know if Steve is willing for me to hold onto my demo unit for that long… 700 hours would put me at 20 days from today.
LOOKING BACK - The Lampy Big6 was equal in every way to both of these guys. I think the imaging and soundstage of the Lampy and the ODSE are more similar. I also think the high and low extension are more similar. Actually, the mids are more similar as well. lol. Me thinks Steve likes tubes and found a way to get the best of both worlds. The Big6 was, well, big. It didn't have the physical fit and finish of the ODSE or the Aeris. For those who want to tube roll and accessorize, the Big6 is the unabashed winner. I have no doubt that with time, energy, patience and research the Big6 can equal or surpass the performance of either DAC I heard today. And we have now established that the tubes in the Big6 will last many years and that there is ample technical support in the states to make anyone comfortable with a Lampy purchase. But the Lampy will need some tweaking and some NOS hunting to get the most out of it. The Aeris and ODSE are tweaked and done; just maybe play with power cords and vibration stabilization; thats it.
My PS Audio DirectStream was supposed to be completed either late last week or early this week, and I was supposed to get an email saying that it is sitting on Mayura's desk with a USB cable running 24/7 for 2 weeks. I have not received such an email, and I called yesterday and left a message for an update. Sigh...
'Fin |
