$10K Budget for Speakers: Martin Logan Masterpiece vs Tannoy
For much under $10K I can get a pair of Martin Logan Masterpiece’s Classic ESL 9 (the new ones retail for $6.5). Alternatively, I might go ahead and get a used pair of the top-of-the-line ESL 13 with all the bolts and whistles the modern electrostatic speakers offer: an unbelievable 3D-almost-surround-like staging and very detailed, life-like sound. Those Martin Logans speakers do have a huge speaker emission surface (the sound radiating "panel") emitting the sound bi-directionally and these speakers are almost the human hight tall. The same $10K would also get me a top-of-the-line Tannoy Arden speakers (8K per pair). On the used market, if I am lucky, I could get a pair of Turnberries. Tannoy, while does have some unmatched style and a "company history-story" factor, apparently doesn’t even come close to be able to give the same sound experience Martin Logan speakers do. Tannoy speakers radiate sound from a single 10", 12" or at best 15" driver. The speaker themselves are significantly smaller than Martin Logan ones. They are barely hip height. The esthetics and design is a huge factor for me, I do love Tannoy speakers. But, from a practical standpoint, and because the main reason I am getting the speakers is still the SOUND, and not the speakers design, I am heavily inclined to get a less-by-my-opinion-styled speakers made by Martin Logan. Because MLs, regardless of the price, offer a wider, cleaner, more life-like sound than Tannoy speakers do. If the sound reproduction is the only concern, why would I choose a smaller, a single driver Tannoy over state-of-the art technology implemented in Martin Logan?
The main reason I own Tannoy (new Cheviots plus others back in the day) is they're so 'easy' on the ears. Never bright, harsh, glaring, etc.
Same reason I own Zu. Maybe it comes down to a lack of crossovers, or minimal crossovers. I think my ears are sensitive to multiple drivers and doesn't dig them for whatever reason.
ps I've also owned Sanders ESLs (2x, his Innersound also Sanders). Amazing sound but more care & feeding (dual amps, positioning, etc).
So I did hear from Jordan...he told me he has studied this for many years...he thought I should take personal responsibility for my life which seems to me like that would take a lot of energy which I don't have much left. Do you have any other ideas that may allow me to coast...at least for a little while.?
esputnix, you made the right decision. Don’t listen to the naysayers in this thread. ML’s are special speakers that aren’t for everyone, especially those who prefer box speakers. I’d not trade my Spires for anything. I bought them used ffor $3300, and nothing compares to them at that price. I’ve got them mated to a Depth i subwoofer which is a perfect match. I defy anyone to suggest they’ve a limited range. I’ve never had better sound in my humble abode.
Wow ... so many people not even listening to your actual question! I've owned BOTH Martin-Logans & Tannoys for over 20 years. They are VERY different experiences, and I love them both. My M-L SL3's give me transparency, clear midrange detail, and a large vertical scale that cone speakers just cannot do. My Tannoy System 15 studio monitors give me palpable dynamics and dynamic scale that electrostatics simply cannot do. The Tannoys are a bit colored, and have some midbass girth that is missing on the SL3's, around the crossover region from panel to woofer. But this also makes music more FUN to listen to. If I had to choose between only these two for the rest of my life, it would be the Tannoys, for their versatility with all types of music. The M-L's make me favor more Jazz and and audiophile quality recordings. 70's rock music doesn't do so well on the Logans. In my living room, I switch between them every few months, and really enjoy both. Neither gives me fatigue, so i don't know what those others are talking about. Could it be their electronics?? You have a tough decision! Both are interesting & bold choices!
If you enjoyed the previous 16 years of Martin Logan then it could be safe to assume your room, components, and ears are going to prefer them. Congrats.
I've ended up buying Martin Logan Masterpiece's smallest model, ESL 9 9. They sound way better than ML Aeries I have had for the last 16 years. I also purchased two pair of Tannoy SGM 10b monitors which I would like to stack on top of each other to get a more sound volume. I haven't connected Tannoy speakers yet, but ML ESL 9 sounds to me hypnotizing. I can't wait to hear what Tannoy monitors sound in comparison. If both MLs and Tannoys sound equally good, I consider keeping them both.
Some of these guys are nuts. All this noise about ML listener fatigue is simply white noise. Of course you choose ML’s over overpriced Tannoy’s! If you prefer realistic sound that has no equal choose ML. Always!!!
I like the Harbeths 40s as well but their looks are so plain that they may offend. I also like the Magnepan 3.7i but it lacks the deep punchy bass and wide seating area (Tekton has the bass but not the wide seating area either). I've also heard the Sanders several times. It was excellent sounding in a fixed, single seat (like giant headphones) but also requires very heavy power.
I have a higher end system and still have my 20+ year old Legacy Focus speakers. Although I intend to upgrade to Von Schweikert VR9 MkII, the Focuses can be purchased at $2500 to $3000 used. They have ample deep bass, smooth frequency response, wide sound, ample dynamics, etc. They require about 30 watts with good current (low impedance bass). So, easy to drive, 14" square often found with rosewood finish. Even less expensive is the Signature IIIs which have 3-10" woofers which really punch hard and have an ambiance rear tweeter. It is also an excellent speaker which is easy to drive with 18 watt 1978 receiver even. For over 20 years, I owned mid-level stats including Acoustat 2+2s and ML Monolith IIIs. The MLs were totally unacceptable to my new wife due to inferior seating availability, inferior bass, inferior dynamic range.... I bought Legacy Focuses which is a prefered speaker by three friends including Tom Port of Better Records who uses them for business and Steve Hoffman who used them for remastering for about 10 years. You won’t be sorry unless you place them in a bedroom (they need some space to sound great). The Signature IIIs could work in smaller rooms.
If you don't mind buying slightly used speakers and more importantly have the space for them, I would recommend the Focal Sopra 3 speakers. If you are patient you can find a like new pair for your $10,000 budget as I did. These are IMO even better than my previous Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers and that's saying a lot.
Having used Tannoy 15" and large panel speakers, I disagree with the characterization of the Tannoys having larger soundstage. It seems to me that typically the macrodynamics and scale are conflated.
Professor Petersen, the great friend of the threatened 21st male mind, might find his talents better served contemplating the intricacies of the audio mind as opposed to merely the abstract behaviour the general masses.
That kind of thing could drive anyone into illness if they are prepared to roll up their sleeves and get dirty the way he often does.
Audiophilia on the other hand is a relatively benign affliction and treating it should be a walk in the park for a man of his abilities.
OK, he can start after he makes his much needed testimony to the Supreme Court. On top of everything else, we don't want a civil war on our hands, do we?
"But if you want the illusion of a large orchestra from 3rd-row center, the Tannoys can't be beaten. Less detail, but more scale. The Tannoys are also efficient and will work with a larger selection of amplifiers."
Agreed. Less obvious detail but great scale.
Out of all of the speakers I've owned the Tannoys sound the most different. The specs don't show it but I'd swear their frequency response must be unique to them.
There seems to be a likeable bass hump built in, not the deep bass that you can feel, there's very little of that, it's more of a mid bass that doesn't seem so obvious coming from such a large cone as it might from a smaller box.
This gives the sound some of the meat that can make much of the opposition sound a little thin at lower volumes.
Something that real sound never does.
@nordicnorm,
"ML speakers require both space and power to sound their best."
I think it's fair to say all electrostatics do.
I've never heard any Martin Logans, only early and late Quads (I even had a pair of 57s) but their shape always seems very elegant and room friendly in comparison.
I can imagine that they would be sonically some distance removed from the Tannoys with a noticeably cleaner detailed sound and a better disappearing act.
It does seem to be important to match electrostatics with suitable amplification. My experience with the Naim 32.5/110 and the ESLs didn't work out too good.
Firstly, aesthetics matter, unless you live alone. The WAF keeps a lot of great speakers out of people’s homes. Second, 10k is a lot of money. You can get a whole range of excellent speakers on the used market that will blow the MLs and the Tannoys away. Be patient. Take your time.
Please allow me to chime in with my opinion. I won’t distract you with other speaker brand options like the others, instead I’ll focus on your two options. Allow me to say that all of the mesmerizing attributes of the Martin Logan’s will wear on you over time and you will tire of them as ML fatigue sets in. And you’ll finalize that what you were once drawn to now sounds “too much of a good thing artificial” Others in this thread have alluded to this prior to me. Conversely .....I as many others...could gush forever about how great the Tannoy are.
in closing, in all fairness I’d like to acknowledge that you have many other options as others have hinted at.
Both ML and Tannoy make very good speakers. What sounds best to you, only you can determine.
I own a pair of ML Spires.
ML speakers require both space and power to sound their best. They are capable of going down to 1Ω which can blow up a lot of amps. They are rated for 20 - 500W.
I drive mine with a pair of 900W monoblocks, fed by a tube preamp. I couldn't imagine trying to drive them with a 50W amp even though, technically, ML says they are rated for that..
I also have tube monoblocks that produce 75W. The ML's sound more musical than the SS amps on some types of music (e.g. jazz, big band, instrumental) but the tube amps definitely lack the slam of the SS amps.
This audio obsession of ours is a funny business. We can discuss measurements obtained from different audio components and systems, but in the end, we cannot measure how we process that stimuli in our heads.
In the end, as long as YOU enjoy the music, that's all that really matters.
My all-time favorite speakers are the Quad 57s, so I get loving the MLs. My 2nd favorite? Big Tannoys.
You'd pick the latter if realistic scale and dynamics matter to you. ESL's provided a very detailed, but miniaturized version of the musical event. Their dipole radiation also plays nice in problematic rooms.
But if you want the illusion of a large orchestra from 3rd-row center, the Tannoys can't be beaten. Less detail, but more scale. The Tannoys are also efficient and will work with a larger selection of amplifiers.
Look for a used pair of Harbeth 40.1 or 40.2's....better than both Tannoy and ML....and less expensive.....much more natural sounding unless you're a heavy metal person
The Martin Logans are good sounding speakers but with woofers of a size that they don't do well with low bass, so you'd want a well integrated subwoofer if you like realistic bass levels.
The Tannoys will give you very good bass at the cost of reduced performance higher up, compared to the electrostats.
I have Focal Aria 936's a lower budget speaker that sounds better than any ML that I have demoed. I have never demoed Tannoy's due to dealer locations and limited to no dealer availability in NY I would NEVER buy a speaker without hearing it. - Never!
I upgraded to Focal 1028BE's and had fatigue within minutes, I purchased these and returned them and had to pa $350 for return freight. Then I demoed Focal Sopra 2 and had no fatigue and was able to hear what I was missing at the Aria level - a much fuller sounding speaker.
My fatigue is from tinnitus and the 1028BE kicked it in to overdrive but the Aria's and Sopra oddly did not. I am clueless as to why only the 1028be's caused this. May be a frequency they hit.
However, at your budget, I suggest to listen to a few brands and compare vs making assumptions. If you love the ML's and have heard them, the go for it. Everyone's ears are different and my example is my point, you should spend a bit of time demoing them and comparing, same day to see what you like. Keep in mind your AMP as some speakers sound great on solid state and flop on tube amps. So I always try speakers demo'd on both to see how well they perform under any type of amp, that sensitivity and synergy is a major factor in good sound.
There is a synergy that matters with AMP and Speaker. So demo, and maybe even bring your amp for the demo.
Sputnik, Sorry so many people clobbered you. Tannoy man here but I love the electrostatic sound. So clear in the mids. But they don't have the dynamics. If you want to know what a kick drum sounds like put it on with 15" Dual concentric speakers and turn it up!! You gotta decide which one you want. BTW Sanders Sound makes an electrostatic that makes the Logans sound blanketed. Your mileage may vary!
Another vote for the Tannoys here. I owned new ML SL-3's over 20 years ago and while I enjoyed them my Stirling GR's are more enjoyable. For a couple grand less than 10k you could have a new pair of Turnberry.
I’ve had a pair of Tannoy 638’s for over 25 years and they have never failed nor failed to impress me. With that said, I do have a ML center channel that is paired up nicely with those Tannoys. Let your ears do the deciding. Try to get at least a 24 hour demo in your home if you’re going to spend that much.
Just over 4 years into Martin Logan ownership I still sit in front of them transfixed. Their openness, imaging, detail and cleanliness suck me in every time. Love them.
Neither one. Neither is impressive for your $10K. The specs on both are weak, and the Arden is weaker.
Do you have an idea of how they will actually sound? They are close to polar opposites in terms of the listening experience; do you understand that?
You want prodigious for $10K? Do the Legacy Audio Focus, either iteration. If I had limited means and could only have one speaker, the Focus would be on my short list of perhaps 3. Completely different ball game than these others.
Disclaimer: I have reviewed and owned several speakers from Legacy, including the Focus.
If you want a hybrid electrostatic loudspeaker that looks good (in my opinion), you might consider the JansZen Valentina P8 at $9,250. These are made to order (with many finish options). There are no distributors so you must order directly from JansZen. 30 day trial. https://janszenaudio.com/products/valentina-p8-passive
As Julie says... Fyne audio a great choice... These are the design boys that left tannoy. The F1 series is supposed to be otherworldly but way over budget
I have tannoy arden but no point paying so much for them as you are in US... Mine were under £5k in UK... If I was US based I would look at devore.
But what you are comparing are two presentations of sound a that are near polar opposites. The speaker is the biggest influence on sound so choose what you like then tweak from there.
As far as I know the ardens have given me a sound that a year and a half later I can find no fault in. Lovely to live with.
Tekton Moabs will beat all those others for less money. Listened to some of those other ones and then heard Tektons. Ordered them and am currently building the rest of my system and room around them.
My vote is for Tannoy. I can't imagine that you would regret it. Ebm is probably correct, you would get more detail and definition from a Magico, but I don't think that would be in your price range.
Another consideration at just under $10k are the DeVore Super 9s. Fantastic sounding and looking. I loved my previous Tannoy Stirlings but these 9s are next level.
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