You know when you are dealing with a BS company....
...when you read statements like this:
"You can expect a 15% to 20% improvement in sound for each level as you move up the line. The improvements are in soundstage, resolution, realism, musical presentation, impact, etc."
Me: yeah, the humidity in my room changed from 44 to 45% yesterday, and I immidiately noticed that the realism dropped by 3.4%, yet the musical presentation actually WENT UP by 8.3%. I was able to compensate by turning the lights on in the kitchen and changed my socks. Puh, that was close.
To be totally honest with you I never had even considered Marrow cable let alone ever read their online content. Your post has probably sent more people to this site, that reviewed the marketing content and maybe even made a purchase. You do know the old adage, no? "Bad publicity is better than none at all." Their marketing is working. |
Marketing is nothing new as it's been around for many years and the Morrow Audio cables do make a substantial difference as you move up the line, so I don't understand what all the fuss is about?! It's not a bogus product that is ripping people off. How can you not expect a company to make a living? The beginning of this thread was actually childish in my opinion. Have a wonderful weekend people and enjoy the music (through Morrow Audio cables) 😜👊✌️ |
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I agree that his marketing is suspect and said so years ago on this forum. Back when I posted, Mike of Morrow Audio was putting up focused ads on the sales side of Agon for $2,000 IC’s and SC’s and it was fairly obvious he thought that by having uber-expensive offerings he would appear to be a luxury high-end brand when he is anything but. Some poor soul posted up in this thread that his friend, some kind of rocket scientist, confirmed that Mike’s "SSI Technology" is legit. Ooooooof. What crap. As I recall the owner lost his source of silver clad copper stranded wire a couple years back and went to something completely different and "SST" then went to "SSI". I may be incorrect but the main point is that sure his cables work (I "bit" and have several sets) but they are not that great. If you stick with his lower line stuff and don’t have a huge expectations you won’t be burnt. Speaking of "burnt", this Mike guy claims his cables need more burn in than his 60 day satisfaction guarantee allows the average person. That is a pretty good clue in and of itself.
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The Grand Master Evolution SP Speaker Cable (Pair) Only $49,500.00 Folks who buy it...believe they are now equal to Bill Nye The Science Guy. Could have bought a half-decent Sedan.... or two average quality vehicles. |
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When I went wit Morrow, I really did delve into the marketing aspects. I read about their construction and I read as many reviews as I could find both good and bad. There were not many bad and many of them had noting to do with the performance. What I also like about Morrow is that you can trade in your old Morrow cables for new ones or in my case, I changed some gear and needed longer cables and they gave me a fair value for trade on the new cables. I had them build some jumpers and they made them as short as they possibly could at my request. From my perspective, they are some very good folks to deal with. |
Exactly! I have stated in several posts the OP is so out of line. He has no evidence to contradict the statements made in the marketing materials. Pure conjecture on his part and biased opinion’s by those who chose to pile on. He is simply making slanderous and salacious comments at this time and the mods have left it unchecked. This persons attacks on a company that supports this forum through advertising is a perfect example of, “cutting one nose off in spite of themselves” In Texas we call people like this jack asses.
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leorousseau "I can now say that I have a better sounding rig than the high end audio shop that my journey started at about 35 years ago!":Is your system now 12% or 16% better? The Morrow ad guys will be able to tell you if you are curious enough. |
Again, its NOT the product. Judging by the response to my 'this grinds my gears', it is not even the absoute NONSENSE companies put in their ads for their TECHNICAL product (this is not chocolote we are talking about; but I heard that Lindts is 15% more chocolatey than Hershey as measurd on the 'this is good' scale), but that we the people are TAKING this BS without reporting such ads/companies to the centeral INTELLIGENCE agency. |
Seems like a lot of criticism for cable’s marketing hype which is designed to differentiate themselves from the crowded field and to obviously stimulate sales. How should a cable manufacturer market their product? If they spent a considerable amount of time and effort to develop a good sounding product, I think it’s unfair to expect them publish their findings so that the competition can easily copy. |
....oh.... @hilde45 ....Paul had the last word 'bout it all here imh....
....just sayin'....*G* Have a good wkend.. |
(...OMG, it's another Cable Conundrum Complex....and nobody notices 'cept the Few.....) I swear at anyones' particular deity (or not) that I've Got to start 2 - 12 step Cable Conditioning Programs.... One ramps up, other down.... "Yes, that Is a Better Choice!" v. "Wt...were you thinking?!" Win, win, ;) |
I too don't like the Morrow marketing, but then I don't like the marketing at Audioquest either.....or other companies. I do however LOVE my Morrow cables (MA4 RCA and XLR analog cables, and DIG4 RCA 75OHM cables. I also have those same cables fom Cullen Cables, DH Labs, Zavfino (analog only), and Supra cables; and the Morrow cable holds it own (or betters in some instances) with them all. Morrow also offers a trade up policy of 60% off the new cables, no matter what level you trade in (I traded MA2s and DIG3 and received 60% off of the MA4 & DIG4s. To me that is just great customer retention. |
i just love it when a poster with grand total of one (1) post - as in, a first ever post - chimes in and gives a glowing, specific, superbly articulated testimonial in support of a subject product taking some fire, with well couched caveats and all... like he/she has been here forever... 🤣😂😆 what do they say in vegas? if you don't know who is the chump at the card table... then you can be pretty darned sure it's you!!! ...and now, back to your regular programming... |
As I mentioned before, I am very happy with my Morrow Audio MA4 XLR interconnects. I am sometimes surprised that I got past the marketing as it definitely rubs me the wrong way, but I decided to take the chance because the SSI concept makes sense to me and I was looking to get a balanced interconnect when the Black Friday sale was an option. I had considered Morrow Audio interconnects previously but wanted a shielded cable for my setup since until recently I used unbalanced interconnects. I always felt that the MA4 was the minimum level of interest and it was more than I was willing to pay at the time. I opted for an Audioquest Chicago for $100, then moved to Audioquest Sydney for $200, and now the Morrow Audio MA4 for around $200 at the sale price. The missing piece for me with the Morrow Audio SSI technology is what the actual configuration of the individual wires is. I’m also skeptical anytime that one design is used for both interconnects and speaker cables as they are very different connections from an electrical perspective. I don’t think it’s possible for the same configuration to be optimized for both. Maybe there’s differences with the configuration of the individual wires that can’t be seen. My experience with break-in wasn’t a clear and obvious as they describe, but they did sound good at first, then I had several experiences where I didn’t find the sound engaging (didn’t sound obviously bad), and now I’m continually impressed. |
I have Morrow Audio Dig-4, MA-7’s, SP-7’s and I’m very content with my little humble rig. I have been using Morrow Audio for about 13yrs now and I completely understand where everyone is coming from on both sides of this. I haven’t tried any other cable manufacturers other than Blue Jeans and Cardas and to me the Blue Jeans were horrible compared to what I’m used to hearing with the Morrows. As for the Cardas, you would have to spend more to equal or better the Morrows. As for anyone looking to try Morrow Audio cables, I would advise to get the level 3 or 4 to make it worth it. I’ve built two small humble rigs using his cables and also schooled someone who listened to my rig and in turn he ended up ordering some cables from Morrow. To all of the non-believers I just look at it as to each their own. I know what I have and where it started. One more thing, I can now say that I have a better sounding rig than the high end audio shop that my journey started at about 35 years ago! I feel like I've accomplished something! ✌️ |
You get 20% more in sound quality (maybe) and 20% less in available funds when you need it the most. If you are going to buy cables be sure to read the reviews and just remember they are system dependent. Be prepared to invest in addtional cabling to make comparisons as this is what it takes to get what you want. Check to see, if your not satisfied that you can return them for a refund. |
It is apparent from the comments on this thread that Morrow is considered to be legitimate and offers products that are embraced by many in this group. The challenge from their perspective is how best to communicate the value of something subjective in exchange for something tangible -- your money. The long term proposition is to send you product and you send them money. Then, if their products meet or exceed your expectations you’ll buy more of it, and give positive referrals to those you know. Delivering the "right message" is not an easy task, especially in a crowded arena or introducing an immature product segment. We’re terribly deficient at attaching objectivity to product performance via measurements. We also know that superlatives can set off alarm bells when claims cannot be substantiated: "The only way the sound could be improved is to have a digital bitstream plugged directly into your brain". So, Morrow attempts to connect some metric to their assending product price points via some "reasonable" number that represents a degree of performance improvement. So, you spend xx% more and you’ll get back xx+1% more in audio performance. With return privileges, if their numeric assessment of improvement did not align with yours. Marketing geniuses they’re not. But, with some success and a little luck, they may tweak their messaging to be more in tune with your reality. And, allow the product to do most of the talking. |
What I can say is that I switched out my FMS Black speaker cable for Morrow SP6 and my Kimber PBJ and Mogami interconnects for Morrow MA4s and three seasoned audiophiles heard a significant positive difference. We also did comparisons between older mid-range MIT interconnects, Morrows MA5s, and PBJ. The Morrow interconnects were on par with MIT and both were better than the PBJ. I did also talk to research scientist who has oversight on building satellites for the DoD and while I can't begin to recount his explanation, he did infer that there is research that dates back about 2 decades ago that supports the Morrow design philosophy. Are there better cables? Sure, but I'm satisfied with the improvements I heard when I switched to Morrow. |
I have Morrow speaker and interconnects and have used same for years. I find them to be well made and they perform superb in my system. I recommended them to a friend who just got new B&W speakers and a McIntosh amp. He has always been a cable doubter and he was really surprised at the difference. He bought the middle of the line speaker cables. |
I have Morrow SP4 speaker cables. What sold me was the description of what goes into their cable design. It was straight forward, made very good sense to my engineering mind, and didn't try to impress with claims of secret magical marketing BS. Even their break in procedure described what I could expect and my experiance during break-in was consistent with what they said would happen. Cables are very neutral, flexible, inexpensive, and made well. Check their website and read the science behind their SSI design theory. J.Chip
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This thread will be deleted soon as Morrow is an advertiser here. Really doesn’t matter what anyone here thinks of their marketing. It is working look at this thread. 15% better than the lamp chord you are using? listen I am a Zavfino guy and could care less about the Morrow product just find it distasteful when attacks are made on companies by people who just read ad copy and never tried the product. The ad says 15% better than lower tier products in their line. Again can you prove this is a false claim? If not you are making slanderous statements. |
thecarpathian think about it: 15% improve of WHAT? How do you DOCUMENT the improvement? How do you MEASURE the improvement. What UNITS are used to measure? What INSTRUMENT or TOOL is used to measure.In Kindergarden, they may tolerate "this sound yummi, but this cable sound more yummi" (and that would even be a hard to dispruve statement), and saying this calbe sound "15-2-% more yummi" is BS. And companies who public BS are BS Companies. Which in turn makes ME at least think about how BSy such companies' products are. Unless of course I can buy the product by paying with an amount "15-20% more than a lot" in an undisclosed currency. |
"What is the sense in a MSRP if you are always offering the product at 35% - 55% off? Don’t tell me your cable is worth $1000 when you never sell it for more than $650? " Yes, I am not impressed when this happens. It my memory serves me correctly from my former entrepreneural days, the FTC does attach some rules to "sale" or "free" items to avoid fraud. The product/service must be presented for some (defined) period of time at the "regular" price before they can legally claim that it is discounted. The period of time escapes me, but I’m sure there are some here who can provide a qualified response. That being said, an item cannot be presented as perpectually "on sale". Reminds me of those fireworks stands that on Day One open with "Buy One, Get Two FREE" offers. |
mceljp: "The % improvements are just approximations with the intent of giving customers an idea for what to expect." ==> That IS the problem. How can a serious company make such a statement? PERCENT OF WHAT !!!! If they would write "itsibitsy improvement", I could tolerate. Or "Our cables sound somewhat better than (what?)". "If you use more of our cables, the sound will improve somewhat more". "Our cables give your sound systems WINGS".
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tomaswv et al: I am NOT arguing or questioning the quality of the product.But this (and similar examples) just shows how STUPID American consumers are (otherwise marketing departments, advertising companies, political parties, interest groups would NOT do it). We have ENTIRELY lost our ability to turn our brain on when reading, seeing or hearing.The shear amount of BS that we are fed on a daily basis (bad) and SWALLOW without PUKING (WORSE) is mind-boggling.I will now take the pill that makes me 16% happier, and drink my special java that lowers the bad vibes by 8% (one cup) or 12% (two cups). |
You don't HAVE to read the garbage these people put out. Measurements don't work on cables. Period. Many say they don't work on anything else either. So if you believe a particular cable might give a better sound FOR YOU, then you will have to listen to it in your system. Pity them if you like. But otherwise just ignore them and have a good day. |
I recently purchased a Morrow Audio MA4 XLR cable and emailed Mike Morrow with some “critiques” along the same lines as the OP mentions. They have chosen to take the approach of customer like “sales” and seemingly have a successful business using that model. The % improvements are just approximations with the intent of giving customers an idea for what to expect. I think what made my head hurt the most is that the primary driver for price point appears to be the number of wire runs in the cables, yet my XLR has twice as many as the equivalent RCA but is the same price.
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I have a set of Morrow speaker cables (SP2 or 4?) about 4 years now. I was neither dissapointed nor thrilled with any difference in sound. They are well-made, very bendable, somewhat unique in design and length to order. These days I make my own cables with Belden bulk wire (spools of 14x4 spkr & pwr and 1694A Brilliance for coax & RCAs), but I wouldn’t want to hassle assembling all those strands in the Morrow design - so the value is there (when they’re on sale). Morrow used to sell used trade-in cables (Morrow & other brands), and that’s how I found them years ago - does anyone know if they still do that? The Morrow’s I have are on GoldenEar Tritons, so there is very little power demand since they only power AMT and mids (not bass), but they sounded fine on the Martin Logan e-stats too (which dipped to 1.6 ohm load). I also have a very nice set of AQ Mont Blanc (think 10awg) with DBS and factory upgraded ends - no discernable difference between them and Morrow (or my DIY Belden) in my experience - maybe a difference could be found by precision measurement. My impression is the Morrow spkr cables are made of MANY very small individually insulated solid copper strands, and I contemplated making my own from Ethernet cables, but who wants to wrestle with a zillion tiny wires? |
i too have a distaste for how morrow does it’s marketing, i once emailed them with a question, then i was blasted mercilessly with promotional emails (we are talking one or more per day!) -- so i finally marked all their emails as spam that said, i believe their cables are basically solid, with all the usual caveats for any highly commercial cable maker (e.g., avoid their really expensive stuff... rarely worth it, take outlandish claims with many grains of salt...and so on) |
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