You know when you are dealing with a BS company....

Love peanut butter, not for sandwiches.

I have 2 dogs ;)

@jjss49 +1 to "i finally marked all their emails as spam"

These 7 AWG speaker cables are the only ones you’ll ever need

 

 

So if a company makes 4 levels of the same product, even if they don't explicitly state it, they are inferring that there is an improvement in sonics at each higher level.  Who knows if if is 5, 7.5, 10 or 15%.  I don't take the claim of an 15% improvement as evidence this is a bad or dishonest company. Just my take.

If I made purchases based on a company’s marketing, I would never purchase anything.  

But it's on the internet...

This is a very simple fact;

All marketing is hype. All of it. Don't care what you're selling.

Frankly, if I don't trust their marketing, then I don't trust the company. 

Ha! That includes most cable companies, and might as well lump in all the other marketing BS we get bombarded with in the media.

The sheet that comes with their cables is laughable nonsense.

The cables are ok. no better or worse than anything else. But he is a total BS artist.

@jasonbourne52

 

Morrow Audio should get the same ad writer as Synergistic Research! Talk about hyperbole!

      POSTING about hyperbole, while POSING as a fictitious Intelligence Operative?

"You don’t HAVE to read the garbage these people put out.

Measurements don’t work on cables. Period. Many say they don’t work on anything else either. So if you believe a particular cable might give a better sound FOR YOU, then you will have to LISTEN TO IT IN YOUR SYSTEM."

                                                        TRUTH!

Frankly, if I don't trust their marketing, then I don't trust the company.  

BTW, you can test cables and correlate to sound quality.  What one cannot do is one test that tells you every thing.  

For example, a cable has an input and an output.  So the power you put in had better Match the power you get out as well as match the frequency spectrum.  It's not hard to measure mW or nW or uW, but no one does it.  It's a bit expensive to measure shielding effectiveness but no one does that either.  Both of these are big ticket sound destroyers, but I never see anyone advertising those numbers.  

With BS marketing hype, you don't have to worry about this factor: brand A cable holds the King Position with shielding effectiveness from 50 Hz to 50 MHz with a min of -40 dBm but now brand B cable comes out with shielding effectiveness to 52 dBm.  Oops, brand B is now the better cable, and brand A is somewhat obsolete.

And we didn't even mention power loss in the cable...

The claimed sound improvement percentages should be multiplied or divided by the square root of negative one. That's probably somewhere in the fine print.

I surmise that this whole OP started is when the marketing material used “numbers” that really bother some analytical person thinking “you can’t use numbers based on nothing”.  Really puts a bee in their bonnet.

Posit:

A statement which is made on the assumption that it will prove to be true.

 

I've guaranteed Nothing, Xcept 1gogoolplex% bs.

Fill in the blank.

 

...I’m still pondering ’garden hose speaker cables’....

Sounds like a Great Idea to this tyke....*eyebrows dance*

"Premium carbon fibre low mil tubing impregnated with virgin rubber lubricated by maidens of the Amazon in a means we shan’t share slyly....

Terminated with 1000% pure Unobtainium, the medium for the Message is Moonwater sourced by our fleet of drone saucers from Dark Side crevices jelled with micron level platinum dust.

We posit the sound will make you break into tears....

...and The Reign won’t seem too much to have for your own...

All we need to know is how many cm and how many."

*G* Not available as yet, but soon enough...no doubt. ;)

...coming to a netsite near everyone...

Yay.

Unkle-Reign-W.O.W.Mix

Loud.

 

 

yup.

 

op

i think maybe it is time to let it go

we got your point... some folks are more gullible or skeptical than others... marketers do what they do...  life goes on -- there is much noise in our lives, from many sources, we grin and bear it

This whole good, better, best thing reminds me of the good better best hype found with some of the junk aftermarket auto parts sold at most auto parts stores.

If a manufacture specializes in a certain product, in general, the product is either good or it isn't. On a professional level, critical products are bought on the merit and value of their performance not on hype and blue sky.......Jim

I am 15% sadder r (measured with metric digital happy meter) after reading most of the comments, since 80% don't even recognize when they confronted with BS. 

It is also confirmed that US audio equipment consumers are 12.8% dumber (measured on the thick as a brick scale in SI units) as initially expected. 

@kraftwerkturbo 

 

Who.Cares.

russ69

"You can expect a 15% to 20% improvement in sound for each level as you move up the line."

I think you are misunderstanding what they are saying. I think they are saying that there is a 15-20% difference between each level of cable. Not a 15-20% improvement in your system sound but a 15-20% change in relation to the small change a cable makes. So 15-20% to the 1% change (SWAG) a cable makes.

So if they have 5-6 different cables the dearest is going to be 100% better than the cheapest.

That's some outrageous claim! A really extraordinary claim. Perhaps 1-2% might be more in the ballpark. 

Yawn, level of ignorance in this thread or for the OP dumbness.

What company selling anything doesn't make bombastic claims.

I am sure there a LOTS of similar examples out there for marketing that promises "15% increase in happiness" for your dollars. 

And that is dumb enough. 

But making quantitive statements about non measurable for a technical product is pretty bad. 

The WORST: the level of dumbness of American consumers (even for technical products) has reached a historic high (I present as proof the number of posters here that have not even recognized the nuttiness of the given example ad). THAT IS SCARY.

 

"It doesn’t matter. The concept is the same: higher prices = better fidelity = audio nirvana."

I agree. My point is there are far more ludicrous claims that would have been a much better example.

@jerryg123 

+1

"It was as much a BS post as the marketing you are whining about.

You have given them more marketing awareness than any ad copy they could write.

Nice work!"

@kraftwerkturbo 

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/audiophile.htm

Not all, but some fit Ken's definition of "audiophile." I'm not naming anyone, but I've met a lot of audiophiles who truly do believe the most darnedestly stupid things about audio equipment.

@thecarpathian 

It doesn't matter. The concept is the same: higher prices = better fidelity = audio nirvana.

 

I like my Morrow XLRs.  I hate the spamming I get from Morrow's (likely a millennial run) ad department.  That being said have you ever had to sell a product to the general public lately?  I swear people are getting stuupiderr and stupidere.  

Then you should have picked a company that goes way beyond the normal hype like Synergistic Research.

You're making an example out of a company ad that is really mild in comparison to many others. Sure is a lot of hub bub over something so inconsequential to anyone's life.

mastering93: "

How do you figure out "spacial divergence?"

How do you figure out your *quoted* percentage of a 12%-16% improvement?"

Don't ask me. Ask the companies that write such and similar nonsense in their ads. 

THAT IS THE (ONLY) POINT OF THE ORIGINAL POST (supposedly serious companies selling supposedly serious technical products using utter nonsense claims). 

 

@jerryg123

A: No, they normally use high-purity copper wire that is tin-plated, which also protects against corrosion. Sometimes they use silver solder as well.

Notice the use of the word "normally." I wasn’t saying they never use silver wire or higher quality capactiors.

Everything you’ve said thus far is moot. 

Who cares what @kraftwerkturbo thinks?!

It won’t change your perception on anything, anyway.

lol why do you keep talking about Amir?

 

 

Actually some do. And some offer options for high grade capacitors and solid Silver internal wiring.

So your point moot.

Amir has a son I see.

1) The wiring inside an amplifier. Do these manufacturers of audio gear call upon high-end cable companies to provide wire?

@mastering92 keeping it in context I was referring to the subject of this post. As a refresher @kraftwerkturbo was pissing and moaning about the marketing content and tactics used by Morrow cables. Not the other value line cables sold on Amazon and Aliexpress. 
 

Stay on track. 

Yep.  the truth is: we participate in a hobby full of subjective elements.  Even some of the measurable elements may not improve subjective performance.  This is especially true with DAC's where great engineers can optimize a DSP chip to produce great measurements, but potentially subjectively poor sound. 

@mastering92  the apogee scintilla has a 1ohm nominal impedance mostly resistive. 

@jerryg123 

well Canare, Belden, and Amphenol are all audio pro audio cable brands...so already widely used. 

as for the others, sure. I bet more folks will buy them.

It was as much a BS post as the marketing you are whining about.

You have given them more marketing awareness than any ad copy they could write.

Nice work!

@kraftwerkturbo

How do you figure out "spacial divergence?"

How do you figure out your *quoted* percentage of a 12%-16% improvement?

And why should I sell them? They work just fine.

"I still need to find a suitable cable for my small office, a cable that decreases the roominess by 18% so the sound fits into my space."

Okay, so you want better imaging characteristics from your speakers. That means a better sense of space or locale; to recreate the environment where the recording took place.

may need to address that too and cant use Morrow cables since theirs' INCREASE the soundstage by 15-20% each

--> where are you getting these percentages/numbers??! How do you know that is correct? 

The words you are using are not even technical in theory or practice. I don’t expect any compelling answers from you...

@coralkong

Nope, I’m not Amir.

I’m not raging against anything. Simply sharing my experience.

For the record, I’ve "tried" canare,belden, amphenol, audioquest, custom-made cables (shop owners), and yes, I did listen to high-end speaker cables at audio shops (won’t name them though, out of respect). I haven’t spent my own money on audioquest or other high-end cables.

Consider if you will...

1) The wiring inside an amplifier. Do these manufacturers of audio gear call upon high-end cable companies to provide wire?

A: No, they normally use high-purity copper wire that is tin-plated, which also protects against corrosion. Sometimes they use silver solder as well.

2) The wiring inside a speaker/crossovers. Do these manufacturers of audio gear call upon high-end cable companies to provide wire?

A: No, they use their own internally sourced wires for that. Tested to meet a standard so electrical hazards do not occur when being used.

Are you suggesting that military airforces world-wide should stop using mil-spec silver cables for wiring up their jets? If so,what is wrong with the cables I’m using?

And instead use your favourite brand of speaker cables for the job?

@invalid

True that lower AWG is useful for speakers that can dip to 2 Ω or less and have a nominal impedance of 4 Ω.

 

 

Aside from the fact that this post was NOT meant to open a wire discussion (or even a discussion about the quality of the brand that puts mega BS in their ads), rather complaining about mega BS plastered in ads by supposedly serious companies selling technical products:

 

 

mastering92 as long as your 'mil spec' cables/wires give you at least 12-16% improvement in spacial divergence, you can sell them for 40% more. I still need to find a suitable cable for my small office, a cable that decreases the roominess by 18% so the sound fits into my space. I already ordered the soundstage tape measure from Morrow to also measure the width of the soundstage (may need to address that too and cant use Morrow cables since theirs' INCREASE the soundstage by 15-20% each and won't fit in my office). 

 

"I’ve had people ask me the same thing...how much do your speaker cables cost?

I tell them...$40.

Just mil-spec silver wire with good insulation....

This is the same stuff used in jet aircrafts for wiring. I’m sure this is more than enough for audio applications."

So have you actually ever TRIED the higher end cables you seem to be raging against?

Or higher end cables from ANY company? Any at all?

Amir, is that you?

I don't see too many people on this site say to use garden hose speaker cables. It depends on the speaker you are using, if you have apogee scintilla I would definitely use a very short garden hose cable.

@bigtwin

I’ve had people ask me the same thing...how much do your speaker cables cost?

I tell them...$40.

Just mil-spec silver wire with good insulation. 2 sets of 2 for my speakers. 3 feet each at 12 AWG. Because it’s military specified, the range of frequencies and highest temperature the cable can reach before melting is way higher than standard/bulk copper cable rolls.

This is the same stuff used in jet aircrafts for wiring. I’m sure this is more than enough for audio applications.

Tell this to a diehard audiophile, and they still believe the more expensive/the better. "it’s about the quality." the say. "You are paying for better quality and better sound quality."

I’ve run in to so many of these audiophiles in person (at audio shops etc.) lol

Not to mention, very heavy cables place strain on speaker terminals, inputs etc.

To the layman audiophile, thicker cables always means better. Especially the garden-hose variety. It's hilarious to see believers of such cables in person...

I am sure they are Fine products but...

I own Zero Morrow wires/cables/connectors and am 100% happy...

 

   I think over the years Morrow’s marketing is a little unusual. I have Level 4 IC’s, speaker , power and a digital cable. All of my cables were purchased during sales events and we’re 50% off. One of my transactions was with Mike on the phone and he realized I was scraping money together to by what I wanted. Without me asking he offered me a lower price and gifted me 10 days ( 240 hours ) of burnin for free. I have a cost driven system that is from various US companies that is pretty much boutique stuff, Zu, Had, Schiit, Rogue, Morrow, Akitika. In my 3-4 conversations with Morrow and my transactions, I find them to be honest , timely , and truly interested in my personal music experience. I think the peanut gallery has jumped in and taken this in many directions. Based on personal experience I won’t co-sign most of the BS , but in my opinion Morrows marketing is a little unconventional. But they do offer a trial period, and I’d be curious out of the approximate 60 contributions , how many have actually tried them. But again that’s  not your question. Happy Hunting , Mike B. 

leorousseau 

Monster Cable: I just tested mine, and it improved the realism of my sound by 28.3%! Tomorrow, I will test musical presention and report back.

(""You can expect a 15% to 20% improvement in sound for each level as you move up the line. The improvements are in soundstage, resolution, realism, musical presentation, impact")