Would I be wasting my money to get a turntable?

not if you like records or have a bunch

@grislybutter 

That is a pretty accurate diagram!!  It’s not a shot at the analog group nor digital.  It’s been said a million times, to get really good analog to match a well sorted dig rig, it costs $$.

It’s about goals I think, do you want a top shelf analog rig that sounds really good, or something good that one can still enjoy (not shooting for best SQ) > because it WILL cost you.

Being I’m in a similar situation deciding whether to pursue this, in my limited time and experience (TT) thus far building an analog rig, it takes a lot of work and setup to even come close to dig and can see how accurate the statement regarding analog cost is 100% true.

i have hardly any vinyl, starting from basically scratch, and have a learned a ton thus far.  Purchased a RCM, new albums, learning about pressings etc…I’m still in early stages of trying diff components out and am still kinda on the fence whether or not to do this as I can see first hand what it takes => $$

However it’s really more about the physical aspect, the interaction and ownership of music.  SQ alone will cost a lot, so it’s a balance of getting good sound that’s enjoyable (good enough without an insane outlay).  At least I think that’s a fairly accurate perspective.  SQ, cost, goals etc…are all very subjective so one has to find their own “balance” and perspective. 

Unless you just want to play with a turntable, the answer is yes, you’d be wasting your money. Sound quality is no better and on most recordings, it worse.

There’s no amount of money one can spend to make a poorly recorded album sound like a great one.

@OP If you don't already have a large record collection the answer is absolutely not. It's not just a question of whether the TT will be as good as your existing streaming system but also the opportunity coast. For what you will spend on the analogue playback you can make a substantial upgrade to your existing system.

This spanned the widths and depths of logic and reasoning ranging from the metaphysical to the ultra-technical.  He he...I'd say it's really just a matter of two things:  Do you want to?  Can you afford it?  Do it.  Even small budgets can get into a system that will reveal whether or not you'd be into it going forward.  And we love to upgrade so if it sticks you can do that later.  If it doesn't work out, sell it.  The net would be worth it, I think, to have tried it.

The overwhelming majority of you guys aren’t answering his question. He’s not simply asking is adding a vinyl rig worth his time and money.

He’s asking, since he has an amp that digitizes analog signals (you know like turntables) would that negate the point of having a vinyl rig.

carsbad yes it has an analog input which is them digitized so analog goes through an a to d conversion process no ANALOG PASS THROUGH ON THE M33

Adding on to what @thecarpathian stated, many of the comments also seem to revolve around the convenience factor of digital, which it certainly is, but that’s not the underlying reason not to get into vinyl. I mean it can be and is a valid reason for sure, but would think anyone considering vinyl is already aware, vinyl is not convenient and not the point

If you have a lot of vinyl or want to get into spinning records it’s worth it. IMO.  I moved on from vinyl in the late 80s when CDs hit and now I’m streaming more than playing CDs.  There’s something special to some about owning physical media especially albums besides cleaning out seeds and stems.  It’s your hobby and musical journey.  Go where your muse takes you.  

A cool turntable, even if you don't use it, will impress others and make you seem more interesting than you actually are.

@thecarpathian Good point, if he had an external phono stage, would it be analog signal or the M33 would still convert it to digital?

A cool turntable, even if you don't use it, will impress others

it's way cheaper than an Alfa Romeo, so yes, a pretty compelling argument

Whathifi rates the internal phono section highly, though it's not clear as to what deck and cartridge (MM/MC?) they used.

They mention "Thorens" but when I clicked on their various test rooms/systems I could not find a Thorens listed.

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/nad-masters-m33

DeKay

garbage in = garbage out no matter the source. Just like there are garbage LP's, there are garbage streams as well.  Sometimes they are the same thing. 

So your m33 converts everything to digital, so what? Vinyl will sound like vinyl, just with a digital edge? Don't know until you try it. Might be awesome.

Vinyl is what got me back into audio a couple years ago. Have always had a stereo, but it turned into HT a couple decades ago, was always ok with music. My girl is into records, we decided to get a dedicated 2ch setup.

Got the standard $500 TT, upgraded that all the way, including a $400 cartridge. Then splurged on a $2000 TT with a $700 cartridge. It's been blissful. Except for when I destroyed the new cartridge needle after getting it caught on a towel after cleaning the TT, that was a $500 ouch. My point is, TT is all analog, it requires a lot of maintenance, attention and setup. 

Now we move on to records, yes, they are expensive and going up! 2 years ago, new records were $20-25, used would be $10-30 (on average) Now all new records are $30-35, used start over $20. They take up a LOT of space. Now you got all these records, you got to keep them clean (lots of time and money) get a ultrasonic cleaner $1000, then get new sleeves for the outer and inner record, you are not going to put clean records in dirty selves. expect to spend about $2 per record for that. 

Records are a labor of love, they take a lot of time, effort, and dedication. They change how you listen to music. As you tend to spin a record, and listen to the entire album. Oh, you get up every 20min to change it. 

We haven't even touched on sound quality, on my system vinyl sounds better over streaming, but I have a vintage setup, with a lower end streamer. Feel you got to spend at least the same or a little more on the TT setup to get the same level as your digital. 

Some of the responses on this thread are wild. $50-100K to build a good vinyl collection?! That's 1000 albums at $50 each! That certainly could be an enviable collection (depending on the music) but is not required to enjoy having a turntable. 

I just got back into analog and am greatly enjoying myself. I certainly have not spent anywhere near $100K on my vinyl collection.

Even though, IMO, I think a turntable analog system almost universally sounds better than digital, that's only half of the joy for me. 

Collecting the vinyl, enjoying the album art, the tactility of playing the album, all add to the experience for me in a positive way. 

I stopped listening to music often in my system and was basically just using it for videogames or movies for a long time when streaming was my only source. 

Analog has me excited again to listen and enjoy. 

I would say, with your amplifier, while you may or may not experience a jump in SQ, the connection to the physical media and music might be worth the money.  

There's something special for me when removing a favorite album off the shelf for a listen. YMMV.  

Dear @fritzenheimer   : Are you still there?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/nad-m33-phono-stage-question-for-owners.46969/

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

@grislybutter , et al.-

Here is the lowdown on how this thing works.

It only digitizes an analog input signal if you’re running something like BluOS and want to send it to another system that can receive it which obviously requires a digital signal. If you’re not doing that and just using it for straight up 2 channel by itself, analog inputs are not digitized and they stay unmolestedly analog. Can't speak for any other amp, but that's the scuttlebutt around the barbershop on this one. So, with that knowledgeable information in hand (if it is indeed accurate), we can safely conclude that yes, you can enjoy that sweet analog turntable sound through it.

Now, someone riddle me this; if the album you just bought was pressed from a digital source, is there even a point in playing it?

Yes, in another thread I asked why it is that an LP made from a digital source often sounds good.  Frequently better than what might have started out years ago as an analog master tape.  The answer is all in how the mastering engineer works his or her magic.  I have many examples of digital master tapes as the source used to make Redbook CDs, LPs, high res files and DSD.  The end result can be satisfactory in any format.

thanks @thecarpathian - I will add "unmolestedly analog" to my audiophile dictionary

@grislybutter ,

Also don’t forget " inspecting your albums anally"...

. . . and don't forget "cleaning the stems and seeds."  How about "hot tweeter"?

I am not there yet @thecarpathian but I am evolving :)

Mixed signals, @grislybutter . . . are you saying that you are there?

I am there yet @thecarpathian but I am evolving :)

I can't type

'Hot tweeter'?? Sounds like a really good looking sparrow.

Actually I've heard the term a few times. I believe it can refer to a tweeter that is brash and sibilant or prone to fricative consonant sounds.

@immatthewj   Are you sure you didn't mean Hot Tuna?  Live at Berkeley '69? Smoke it if you got it.  🤣

My Anthem AVR converts analog to digital and then back. I did not realize this when I purchased it.  I guess I assunemed that if I was using the analog in it would stay analog.  I've learned that the reason this is, at least for Anthem, is their room correction.  Although a bit disappointed to learn that , I'm still happy with the product.  I run my fronts thoroug a separate 3 channel Anthem aml via pre outs on the AVR but the analog still gets converted to digital before getting turned back to digital. Knowing this i still bought a Rega TT and a good record sounds more "real" than it's digital counterpart. Just more dynamic.  Ultimately i will completely separate my digital from analog via a switch and separate tube integrated. When I want to rock out to 60's or 70's classics or blues it'll be analog. When I want to shake the house with techno or metal it'll be digital.  

Just my 2 cents from a new hobbies

Cheers!

I thought about how to convince someone to start with vinyl. None of my arguments make much sense. I guess it's like an avid golfer trying to explain golf to me.  

@grislybutter  I can say with some authority, that a golfers constant upgrading of equipment is not unlike this hobby.  The endless pursuit of the smallest improvement.  And the honeymoon period with a new club is much like the confirmation bias with that new cable.  I'm sure I hear a difference, is just like I'm sure I'm hitting the ball further......... 🤣

@bigtwin , I have never done any golf except for miniature golf, but wouldn't the distance one can hit a ball with a new club actually be measurable?

As far as the "hot tweeter," that was mentioned a couple of times on a thread in 'speakers' but no one defined it for me.  I was thinking, however, of something along the lines of what @thecarpathian  spelled out.

Thank you all for the responses and a very entertaining conversation. This hobby can be an amazing rabbit hole and as I have started, innocently, to consider equipment I’ve begun to appreciate that I may have entered the rabbit hole of all rabbit holes. 
 

Do I need a turntable? Probably not. Would it give me pleasure to have an attractive piece of kit to play with and look at and reacquaint myself with the 75 or so albums from the 60’s - 70’s that I have tucked away? Absolutely. Therein lies the benefit I guess. I don’t have a $100,000 system or thousands to spend on pursuing some holy grail, but the joy of adding something new to my system keeps drawing me in and that pretty red Rega P3 I have my eye on would look so nice. That and the memories of taking that new Beatles or Dylan out of the sleeve for the first time and setting the needle down on that spinning wax are still sweet. 

So go for it.  You’ve self identified as one who places significant value on the aesthetics of vinyl, which renders sound quality issues as secondary 

Music Direct has the P3 on sale with different options that include a premounted cartridge. I’d get one with a cartridge unless you or a friend can install the cartridge. Your amp has a phono stage for mm or moving coil if I’m not mistaken.

I would call Music Direct and get their advice.

Mswale, I don’t know where you’re buying your used LPs, but someone is gouging you on the prices. Yes, for certain jazz LPs that have gained iconic status, and for perfect condition, one can pay $20 and up, way up. But other works by the same artists are nearly always available for $10 and less. Here I’m referring to high quality sellers who’ve preselected the records they sell to eliminate junk. From lesser sources, you can pay much less. I think one can assemble an excellent collection of 1000 LPs for $10,000 or less and over the course of a few years. That’s buying one or several at a time. 

To experience an old-fashioned style of entertainment occasionally— that's all. I grew up with LPs and Telefunken, but I don’t miss them anymore. The availability of decent LPs is a major issue.  A full year of Qobuz subscription could only buy 4 LPs.  

I also recommend the new Rega P3 with the Nd5 cartridge. And I would have to think hard to find a record I own or yet to own that costs more than $15 on ebay or discogs

@lewm I'm in Seattle, we have over a dozen good record stores in the area. A few more that are just ok, or really specialized. 

I'm telling you, it's almost impossible to get a $10 record, unless it's trashed, or at a thrift store. Was just putting some new sleeves on a couple used ones, was myself surprised at what I paid for them. On Van Morrison was $32, Taj Mahal was $38. 

On the flip side, I do have a few used records that were in the $10-15 range, One Van Hallen comes to mind, but the cover looks very used.  

It really does not matter where I go they are all over $20. With that, they are also all in very good shape. A couple were still sealed, or likely never used. 

here are 2 of my normal stores.

https://easystreetonline.com

https://hivoltagerecords.com

@kijanki "In class D amplifier "Voltage" is converted to "Duty Cycle", both analog - meaning there is no discrete steps (unlimited resolution)."

true, only if clock / sync “digital” signal is ignored. class D can be theoretically lossless, but design implementation is limited by jittery oscillator and not ideal output analog LPF. 

@mahler123  "You’ve self identified as one who places significant value on the aesthetics of vinyl, which renders sound quality issues as secondary "

Excuse me if I find that statement somewhat condescending.  And you are not the first member on this site that has made disparaging  comments about buying equipment for the aesthetics and the sheer joy many of us get from the ownership of beautiful equipment.  I don't find that love of equipment and love of music are mutually exclusive.  Just my opinion but one I'm sure is shared by many.  Cheers.

Do I need a turntable? Probably not. Would it give me pleasure to have an attractive piece of kit to play with and look at and reacquaint myself with the 75 or so albums from the 60’s - 70’s that I have tucked away? Absolutely. Therein lies the benefit I guess.

So, your mind was already made and you were looking for confirmation?

@mswale this is bizarre. I browsed a few record stores in Boston and Minneapolis and the selection was always underwhelming and the prices high. In San Diego, where I live, it's hard to find a record over $20. Usually it's one version of a record that has other versions for under $10 in the same bin. Same in LA, reasonable prices. I think it has to do with the weather. (I can explain)

Get a turntable.  Get some of your favorite albums.  Then, if you’re like me, an obsessive audiophile, the rest will follow.  See you in 1 year. 

The decision to get into vinyl is a personal choice like everything. I think a turntable setup is one the most time consuming and critical aspects of any piece of gear. This component takes up the audiophile’s time more than other pieces of gear…to sound right. BTW I just bought a turntable myself. Also, I bought a good cartridge, a good platform base, a good phono amp, a record cleaning system and a dustcover. It IS an investment. Why did I do it? Well my mother died last month and I have been grieving. I have not listened to my stereo since this happened. When I was young, we listened to record albums of her favorite singers. I thought it would make me feel like listening to music again if I bought a turntable.

@2psyop ,

Sorry about your mom, man.

Buying a turntable and playing those records is a great way to reminisce and stay connected with those good memories.

@immatthewj 

 I have never done any golf except for miniature golf

I once built a miniature golf course from Lego. The ball kept getting stuck, never seen Lego figures cussing so much.

@thecarpathian 

Thanks for the nice comment. You always have good advice. Much appreciated.

@grislybutter , but seriously, was that mini golf course you built located at Mar a Lego?

@immatthewj ,

Why am I suddenly batting flashbacks of poop jokes??!

@thecarpathian , possibly because you have been watching Katie Turd or Anderson Pooper or Jake Crapper on the 24 hour news channels?  

 I’d get one with a cartridge unless you or a friend can install the cartridge.

@sls883 , is a cartridge that hard to install?  This is a serious question, as I have not owned a TT and played LPs since '82.  

(Following this thread is making me more and more happy that I have sold out to digital.)