HI risk, why take a chance? Best case your cutting it close here with 70ish watts, and speakers with these specs may not give their full potential without ample power. Decide on tubes v ss first, then find speakers. With the PL, I would find some 8+ ohm speakers with a flatter curve where you can use the 8 ohm taps. I’ve been down this road with tubes (with a PL which are very good btw), with excellent speakers (similar specs) that reside in my garage.
Will a tube amp work well on Revel f208?
Hi,
Two different stereo store salesmen both told me to use a tube integrated amp (primaluna evo 400, or Ayon V) on my Revel f208. I live in an apartment, so I rarely listen at concert levels (rock,pop,80's,modern music,etc) , But due to that speaker's impedance swings, it's in the 4 ohm region a lot and needs a 4 ohm capable amp. I was told by someone else that the Revel f208 likes high current, (Which won't be found in a tube amp?). I was considering something like Hegel or anthem integrated STR before the prima Luna evo 400 was recommended. Can Somebody with actual knowledge chime in so I am not at the mercy of salesman or misinformation? The speakers are revel f208 and I'd like to stick with an integrated and stream for simplicity (I have node 2i)Thanks!
Two different stereo store salesmen both told me to use a tube integrated amp (primaluna evo 400, or Ayon V) on my Revel f208. I live in an apartment, so I rarely listen at concert levels (rock,pop,80's,modern music,etc) , But due to that speaker's impedance swings, it's in the 4 ohm region a lot and needs a 4 ohm capable amp. I was told by someone else that the Revel f208 likes high current, (Which won't be found in a tube amp?). I was considering something like Hegel or anthem integrated STR before the prima Luna evo 400 was recommended. Can Somebody with actual knowledge chime in so I am not at the mercy of salesman or misinformation? The speakers are revel f208 and I'd like to stick with an integrated and stream for simplicity (I have node 2i)Thanks!
29 responses Add your response
Its not impedance, its sensitivity you want to pay attention to. And its not watts, its the amplifier. Sorry if that sounds vague but with tube amps its more the design and especially the transformers than the watts. Hard to believe until you hear a couple 50 watt tube amps play louder and with better bass than 200 watt ss amps. Do this enough times you start to realize watts are one of the most meaningless specs around. I'm not gonna do your work for you. If your speakers are around 90dB or higher the PL will have them singing. Raven Blackhawk even more so but that's your choice. If they are in the 80's, the lower into the 80's you go the harder it gets to find anything that will drive them. The higher into the 90's the easier. That is why sensitivity is the single most important speaker spec. |
Don't get too caught up in the specs. The PL likely will be fine, but your ears ultimately choose what they like. You can try both 4/8 ohm taps and let them decide. There are plenty of reviews stating the PL works with many speakers. I've used PL gear for many years. Subjectively, build and performance on par with pricier equipment. Been using a PLHP(Evo400) with 89 db speakers. They were reviewed and tested which revealed the REAL the specs somewhere around 87-88! Check the Line Magnetics stuff also, if you're onboard with made in China products. Nice gear. |
So even here, there is some conflicting opinions/ information. TableJockie my speakers are 88.5 dB sensitivity. Were you happy with your setup you referred to? Glow_worm, Care to elaborate and educate me? Your post called somebody else wrong but didn't tell me what is right. I am not trying to start a tube versus solid state argument, I just want quality sound with a synergistic Integration of components. Recommendations and education welcomed. Thanks |
Miller's answer is half right. Sensitivity matters, but as the impedance of the amp increases (i.e. tubes) the output of the speaker gets closer to the impedance curve than original. This may be a blessing. If you get a dip in the right place in the bass, it may function as an accidental loudness button. In other words, the amp and speaker work together to bring you a colorful presentation. If it sounds pink but you like pink, then you are all set. You should audition, and pay attention to the area where the speaker's impedance dips, and ask yourself if you like it that way or not. Pay attention to how loudly you play the music (not how far you turn the control). |
"So even here, there is some conflicting opinions/ information. TableJockie my speakers are 88.5 dB sensitivity. Were you happy with your setup you referred to?' labguy- The speakers I referenced are my present daily drivers. There is plenty of knowledge here but, other than preventing something from blowing up, this crap is all subjective as far as what sounds "good". You will drive yourself mad adhering to white paper specs and "experts" Of course you want to follow the "dont to that, do this.." but speakers choice is pretty basic- they sound convincing or not. Also, comparing the 4/8 ohm speaker taps will get you there. Spend time with placement in the room. Find something that sounds good to your ears and CRANK IT! |
Those particular speakers like more power rather than less. Not to go too deep into impedance curves and whatever else others have mentioned, but... if you own these speakers you already know that they like some more power to make sounds. Barely above dinner background music level and an 90-Watt SS amplifier volume control is at 11 o'clock. |
The Stereophile review states that a tube amp with good current via the 4ohm tap is needed. Much of the impedance curve is low but the phase angle is good and will help offset the dips in impedance. https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa3-f208-loudspeaker-measurements |
Pass INT60. You’re welcome I’ve owned Rebel speakers for a long time. Initially drove them with a solid state amp:. Missing something. Then I went to tubes- both Conrad Johnson and Rogue, all in the 60 watt range. That’s more like it. Then about 6 or 7 years ago I switched to Pass. BINGO! And since then I’ve never been even slightly tempted to return to tubes The INT60 should be an ideal integrated with your 208’s |
A good tube amp with a big transformer will work and you need to take into account SPL and Impedance when considering an amp. I would be cautious of using a PrimLuna evo 400 with those. I had demo'd B&W 805 D3s with a PrimaLuna integrated and it struggled with them. Those F208s like current and will sound their very best when driven with authority like all Revel Speakers. If you are looking for a tube integrated that will handle those well at a modest price, your best bet would be the Cronus Magnus from Rogue or maybe the SLI-100 from Cary. They will give you a bit more oomph but both are ultralinear KT 120 or KT150 based and will sound more SS than you would think. You might be better off with a hybrid if you want a more tubeish sound. Take a look at the Rogue Pharaoh which is a hybrid Class -D with a tube input stage. Assume you are going to roll in NOS tubes which will be an extra ~$250 to maximize sound but that would be a brilliant combo and would handle the Revels quite well. I own a power a hybrid power amp from Rogue and used it to drive Performa3 M105s for a long stretch and it is a great combo. If you are looking for more refinement, the AVM Evolution A5.2 would be a brilliant match. Read the review in Positive Feedback. It is a more refined amp than the Rogue though it is almost 2x as expensive. Full disclosure, I am an AVM dealer, I have no relationship with Rogue, Revel, Cary or PrimaLuna, just a former happy owner of Rogue and Revel. |
DUAL MONO. Keep in mind, a tube amp that allows it to be used in MONO gives you current or future options for more power if you move, and/or try lower efficiency speakers in the future. That gives you the option to try something that is 'probably enough', and solve it by getting another (consider the cost if trying 'probably enough'. Never saw or heard one, but the design/specs/reviews of that Prima Luna EVO 400 certainly is tempting, I would love to hear one. Among the many specific features, I like the relay method of input isolation. Triode/ultra-linear. My Cayin AT88T has remote switching. I and all my friends, and all reviewers I have found prefer it's Ultra Linear, thus you get the higher output rating. In your apartment, I suspect either mode would be enough power for those speakers. Not important, but annoyingly, the Cayin defaults to Triode, so I need to wait for it's 30 sec test sequence, then change to ultra-linear. Too much bass is not your friend in APT's, so I hope your pre-amp offers tone controls if needed, i.e. when others are present in their apts, full bass when they are out. |
You are keeping the speakers so match them with the power they need. Although the other side is you listen at low levels. Like 60-70db I am guessing. FYI get the free phone app which read db levels. I am guessing you budget at $8k max? I sold my tube gear and went to Pass. Hum and odd tube sounds bother me. Not going back. Perhaps a hybrid for you? Vinnie Rossi? Keep us posted please. |
Labguy, The attached is an excellent explanation about tube gear and speaker matching. He explains it far better than I can. A tube/speaker mismatch is a classic mistake that you want to avoid, it’s expensive and frustrating. I don’t know how your speaker and amp will perform together, but it’s important to understand the issues involved and what to listen for before you purchase. Good luck and let is know what you decide. https://www.dhtrob.com/overige/tubefriendly_lsp_en.php |
I know this is an old thread but I’ll just say that I have a pair of (updated) Dynaco MK III monoblocks and they sound great with the F208s. Do they get super loud? No. But loud enough for me. 90db or so at least. Are they as crystal clear as my Buckeye amp? No. But they have a lovely vintage sound and surprisingly good bass control. |
@millercarbon Watts is watts - that is the old wife's tales that a 50-watt tube amp plays louder than a 200-watt SS. People still believe this stuff in this day and age blows my mind. |
Thanks for that @thecarpathian - didn't know. The post still holds true. One can't argue with physics. |
@botrytis The reason that myth persists is due to how tube amps distort. They have 'soft' clipping and when doing so can generate just enough higher ordered harmonics so that they will sound louder than they really are. This is because the ear uses the higher ordered harmonics to sense how loud a sound is. As long as the more powerful solid state amp is only a few dB more powerful (200W is only 6dB louder than 50W) this illusion caused by distortion masquerading as power can hold together. |