why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable
I have tried expensive cables and one's moderately priced. I would say there were some differences but I can't actually say the expensive cables were better. IMHO I believe a lot of people buy expensive cables because they don't actual trust their ears and are afraid of making a mistake. They figure the expensive cables are better for the fact they cost more. If you have a difference of opinion or share the same thoughts, I would like to hear about it.
Lot of sensible responses here. Before we cut each other's throat, shouldn't we define what's expensive....LOL!!!
To me, Nordost Odin 2 is expensive but to few fortunate one's it's the only cable that fits the bill. The ownership of any high priced cables justifiable to those who have means to pay and possibly sound 'best' in their larger than life system.
Cables are just as critical as other components in any decent system. There are wide range of cables available from $100 to $100K. Do your research, audition them in your rig, buy what you can afford and sound best to your ears.
Unless you have money to burn, never pay full price for any cables or components. Everything is negotiable.
Yesterday I substituted even more expensive cabling than those I have been using. There is no question that the new ones are substantially better. Can I give up and return the new ones or figure out how I can buy them? I am as yet unable to say. I'm going to wait after they settle in.
maplegrovemusic, I'm happy for you too. Not trying to change your mind either... Just telling the truth about what I hear and what others have validated.
knghifi no need to state the obvious here and remember I did not start this thread. I only chimmed in after reading all of the irrational arguments. I will ask you one more time....if you are convinced the performance difference between cables can be proven as easily as the difference between a kia and a porche....well I am all ears as i'm sure are many others. What is your method for proving such a claim?
chrshanl37314 posts03-20-2016 8:08pmknghifi no need to state the obvious here and remember I did not start this thread. I only chimmed in after reading all of the irrational arguments. I will ask you one more time....if you are convinced the performance difference between cables can be proven as easily as the difference between a kia and a porche....well I am all ears as i'm sure are many others. What is your method for proving such a claim?
Well you chime in with many illogical arguments.
Let see, how do I compare differences between cables. Hmm .. How about listen to it in my system?
I have a Porsche 911 but no experience with Kia. I'll test drive a Kia next week and probably give you a better answer.
Knghifi - Do you realize if you and another person are present when you are swapping cables that the two of might not agree what sounds "better" between the two of you ? One can simply comprehend the differences between a kia and a porsche . The labor hours and the materials in the cars is evident . That cannot be said between quality cables of a high value and a modest value .
I think your first point sums it up maple. We each determine what sounds best to us, and then decide what price we are willing to pay. Did a Stradivarius cost more to make? Can we prove it sounds better? Does it sound better? Tangential, I know...
maplegrovemusic471 posts03-20-2016 8:47pmKnghifi - Do you realize if you and another person are present when you are swapping cables that the two of might not agree what sounds "better" between the two of you ? One can simply comprehend the differences between a kia and a porsche . The labor hours and the materials in the cars is evident . That cannot be said between quality cables of a high value and a modest value
Even with cars, it's still a matter of personal preference. I know many prefers a softer and more comfortable ride than a Porsche. I know someone replaced his 911 with an automatic Cadillac convertible. Yikes!
Bottom line to this STUPID thread is everything comes down to personal preference and who am I or anyone to judge their decision? It's their money so they do as they please. Spend $150,000 on cables or $100.
Here is plug for Clear Day cables. ...such a nice guy to deal with...such wonderful (and I mean wonderful) speaker cables. If you are looking to open up your system...clean clear mids, silky highs ....get a review pair of Clear Day cables. It will only cost you a couple of dollars to send it back, and the experience is just plain fun. I have no financial interest in Clear Day, but to urge you audiophiles to take advantage of the offer. Nothing will blow up...
An excellent example of value is the analysis plus pro oval power cord 3’ length with the expensive connectors on it for less than $100 bucks brand spanking new. You cannot beat that with a stick.
chrshanl37, I would believe the burden is on you. For you are the one who needs some kind of irrefutable proof or evidence.
Many of the rest of us are satisfied with our first hand experience and poses little if any need to prove anything.
We have stated our experience and our opinions about that experience.
Perhaps you need to get away from the computer scene, go out of the house, listen, and discover for yourself what so many have experienced for decades.
Then, with first hand knowledge, you will be better equipped and perhaps happier about the audiophile experience.
Or if you would prefer, just continue to argue a baseless point.
jl35, "I think your first point sums it up maple. We each determine what sounds best to us, and then decide what price we are willing to pay. Did a Stradivarius cost more to make? Can we prove it sounds better? Does it sound better? Tangential, I know..."
maplegrovemusic, this last Saturday there were four of us in the same listening room when we put the quite a bit more expensive HFC cables in replacing the next down cables. One guy is quiet and said nothing, one said something to the effect of why am I sitting here to what I cannot afford, one said "shit" these are amazing, and one talking about how real the female singer sounded and how perfect the piano was.
I know that I cannot afford them, but I am getting old and think I deserve them as it is now or never.
I really don't understand most threads. Why would I care what someone or even a large number have to say? When I go to shows where "best sound at the show" awards are given, usually these are big and expensive equipment rooms that advertise a lot and rooms that I walked out after a brief listen as they were so terrible sounding. Now how am I going to buy these cables? Please everybody send me your check for $1000. Thanks.
r_f_ sayles Where in my post did I present an argument? Did you even read what I wrote? I directed my comments to a poster who tried to use a sports car vs econo car analogy and how it relates to the differences between mogami and siltech.
I was only pointing out that the comparison cannot be made as the differences between the cars can easily be measured from a performance standpoint and therefore a logical conclusion can be drawn as to which one is a better car. That is a fact that cannot be debated. The same cannot be said for cables. One can only express an opinion as to which cable sounds better but again this would only be a matter of opinion. How is that baseless?
I think you said it best in this quote "we have stated our experience and our opinions about that experience".
Making absolute statements that cable a is better than cable b based on an experience or an opinion is completley illogical and I think most people on here would agree.
Also you presume that I have not listened to cables....well sir you would be dead wrong about that. I have have auditioned numerous cables in my system and have settled on what I think sounds good to me. Some may feel I paid too much for them while others may feel like I could have spent more and got better. Either way I would not make a statement that they are better for everybody than anything else below their price point. It is that kind of thinking that confuses people on here who are just getting into audio thinking all they have to do to get better sound is throw more and more money into their system.
Sometimes you get what you pay for with regard to quality. Sometimes the dollar cost and spent amount is low and you receive an outstanding product. Other times you can pay extremely high prices and get something that leaves much to be desired with quality. Having watched cables being made by someone that knows what they are doing, using components, materials and a honed set of skills you can achieve an excellent set of interconnects and power cables for a very reasonable sum that is in the realm of the working world.
chrshanl3703-21-2016 1:45pm " ... I was only pointing out that the comparison cannot be made as the differences between the cars can easily be measured from a performance standpoint and therefore a logical conclusion can be drawn as to which one is a better car ..."
No, preference is just an opinion. Some people will think the less expensive car is the better car, or the car with more trunk space, or the car with greater torque, or the faster car is the better car. Some people will judge a car based on color. It’s all just opinion.
Synergy. Recording quality, room acoustics, source, amplifier and preamplifier, type of music, speaker placement, personal preferences and ear condition. These are all factors in deciding what you like. I do find that typically the more expensive cables sound better to my ear more often than not. But not all the times. I guess that if you got a lot of money into your gear you want to get the best you can afford for your system. I think that if it brings you the level of enjoyment you want then do it. I tried to go back to cheap stock cables and it didn't work for me. I also went back to cheaper cables. That didn't work either. The need is not the question. You have to want better cables. If you want to spend your money then do it. If not don't criticize those who do. Some people like cars houses watches etc. it's worth what you are willing to pay. Ear happiness is the most important to the majority of us. Enjoy the music. Don't talk just listen. Lol.
Cleeds where did I use the word preference? I am talking strictly performance. Things that can be measured hello!!!!! Handling, braking, acceleration. This is not a subjective difterence. You don't get behind a wheel of a Kia and watch the porche pass you and say to your self.....hmm this Kia is kicking the crap out of that porche.
Using that criteria you can say which is a better car without question. The other things you site like trunk space, sticker price, asthetics blah blah blah .....yes those are preferences....but in no way can you say which is better. Which is the exact same realm audio cables exist in. How do you guys not understand this? If that were not true everyone would be happy to subject them to blind tests.
Let's say we do use the car analogy for a moment..... If we take the Kia and porche the porche will win on every track in any condition....that's how superior the porche is performance wise. However if we take the porche and something else that is much closer in performance and compare them then it comes down to driver, track type, conditions and so on. Same with cables....it comes down to room, system, listener etc. Much harder to say which is better. How does nobody understand this basic idea.
chrshanl37317 posts03-21-2016 3:22pmCleeds where did I use the word preference? I am talking strictly performance. Things that can be measured hello!!!!! Handling, braking, acceleration. This is not a subjective difterence. You don’t get behind a wheel of a Kia and watch the porche pass you and say to your self.....hmm this Kia is kicking the crap out of that porche.
Your criteria for superior is performance but someone else might choose ride comfort, size of car ... it’s personal preference.
Same with cables, superior can be more detail, bloom ... You can also measure cables too ... Hello!!! and buy strictly on specs.
Or a Vulcan..., or Zenith....or a one of a kind custom Swiss made piece designed, crafted and assembled by an Independant Watch maker like Philip Dufour.
I only buy the cables that deliver the goods my good fellow....just so happens they cost as much as a nice mid size sedan. I am results driven...price is a factor but not so much for me as for some others.
Why do we pretend to be normal. Lol. All of us are audio obsessed to different levels. Some can buy more expensive cable. Some who can will not. Some of us who can't afford them will anyway. Some of us will think everybody else is crazy except for themselves. We feel the need to buy expensive cables because it probably gives us the sound you we want or hope to get. We need a great sounding system and will get there anyway we can. Enjoy going in circles fellas. Lol
I have spent 1,000s in brand named big name cables most recently the Synergistic Element Tungston,after the MIT cables
A smaller cable company named Silnote Audio brought more natural detailed music At at least 30-40% less money. If you look a lot of reviews and reviewers Seem to feel the same way check them out .
The best way for this for this thread to go away is not participating, a audio builder will try anything that has his interest, sure, some are decision failure's,, some are are satisfactory, and of course, there is the wow factor, that said, the real perspective is that the general public think's an audiophile is obsessive, wasteful of money, down right crazy for the amount of money north of $1,000.00 for an entire system, this thread has no constructive learning, although I am certainly a believer of good cable's can work to benefit a system, my reason for this post is to persuade respectable audiogon member's that this thread is like discussing politic's, a never ending debate that by the end of the day, accomplished nothing.
It allows us to release the inner angst we all harbor and enables us to validate ourselves in an anonymous consequence free environment! Now that's worthwhile....carry on!
Sometimes you get what you pay for with regard to quality. Sometimes the dollar cost and spent amount is low and you receive an outstanding product. Other times you can pay extremely high prices and get something that leaves much to be desired with quality. Having watched cables being made by someone that knows what they are doing, using components, materials and a honed set of skills you can achieve an excellent set of interconnects and power cables for a very reasonable sum that is in the realm of the working world.
If we are talking just wire, then there are many values. On the other hand, MIT can not be duplicated and Transparent has a unique design as well....both offer more than just conventional performance. There is no short cut to what they do and their is no value alternative. So, as long as you have convinced yourself that MIT AND TRANSPARENT aren't for you....many wires exist and your results will vary. For me MIT delivers a whole other level of realistic audio playback that no other cable delivers.
Well here we go no other this no other can do that. Well the best system I ever heard was the late Dave Baskin's system. He owned designaudiovideo. Was it crazy expensive yes. Was it no holds barred yes. It had high end cables and equipment. But it was all a match for what he liked and for his listening room. 500k in equipment. Was it crazy yes! Will never hear a sound that good again. Never. But is sounded so good it's stuck in my ears a whole year later! We all like to experiment. Measure this measure that. Lol. Let your ears decide.
Hi calvinj, good to see you, Dave Baskin's wife has his cable's for sale here on audiogon, yes! , they are the taralab's Evolution Grandmaster sp speaker cable's, funny though, she put gmev, abbreviation's for Grandmaster, however, she got the ev incorrect, supposed to be sp, that is even more high end and cost more than the standard taralab's Evolution Grandmaster speaker cable's, I believe she is going to liquidate his whole system, is the store still open for business?
Funny that Tara Labs would come up....that is one of the other cable manufacturers that I have owned and experienced and they make some awesome stuff. What get's my gander up is the likes of Analysis Plus or Nordost...non musical in my book!
I think one of the biggest reasons that people cannot hear a difference in cables is that their equipment is not resolving enough. .Whether it is an amp or speakers .. etc. For many years i could not ever hear a difference in digital cables . I changed to a different amp , and i could then hear differences.
I completely agree! Note that if you HAVE spent mega-bucks on interconnects or speaker cables, there is not a chance in hell that you (on this forum) would EVER change you mind that THAT purchase must have made your system sound better - even if you cannot hear it. It is called the audio placebo effect. If you put out the big-bucks on cables, a better sub a DAC or just about any component, once you get it installed your system WILL sound better. It is proof positive that, on some products, if you overcharge you will sell more to the duped masses.
Some time ago, I replaced the Kimber (speaker) cables that came with a slightly used pair of B&W 803's with a 10 dollar set of Monoprice cables. I had no way to do a "blind" A/B test but after I switched them out those 803's continued to sweetly sing...no difference that I could tell.
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