I’ve been streaming for over 10 years now and find almost any good quality streamer will do a good job with cd resolution streaming. The DAC used will make the most difference by far. I still use Squeezebox Touch mostly with LM server add ons to external DACs. Sometimes I use iPhone or IPad or even windows PC to same external DAC. The Touch is such a nice device! I have two. Also a Squeezebox Radio I use as an alarm clock in the bedroom. If one goes up sometime I will be more likely to replace it with a new dedicated streamer. Don’t know which I would choose yet.
Where are the cheap home streamers?
When CD players were first introduced, they were $1000 and more new. And this was in early 80's dollars. New ones would eventually drop to under $200, and new players that also play most all formats can still be had around at that price or less. Sure, not the best quality, but they work well enough for most.
The new frontier is of course, streaming. Whether from a local host, online, and so on. Many options in the high end, but what seems odd is the lack of budget options. Probably the least expensive that's of decent quality is the Sonos Connect. Oh sure, you can pair a computer or tablet with a cheap DAC, and get by. Or roll your own with a Raspberry Pi solution. And yes, most disc players are "smart" and can stream audio and video just fine. Among other issues, is that the budget options are defaulting to HDMI out, and omitting Optical, Digital, and Analog out.
There were some early efforts by Sony and Dlink a few years ago. Both not only required a display, but were pretty terrible implementations overall. We recently tried one of the Dayton WBA 31s. For a mere $50, expectations were of course also modest. As you might imagine, analog audio out is not great. Below that of many phones we'd say. It does however had an optical output. A dealbreaker for most of our clients in terms of added complexity. If produced in sufficient number, there is no good reason such a unit with a decent DAC couldn't be built and sold for $200 or so. Or maybe someone is doing this, and it's just not well distributed?
The new frontier is of course, streaming. Whether from a local host, online, and so on. Many options in the high end, but what seems odd is the lack of budget options. Probably the least expensive that's of decent quality is the Sonos Connect. Oh sure, you can pair a computer or tablet with a cheap DAC, and get by. Or roll your own with a Raspberry Pi solution. And yes, most disc players are "smart" and can stream audio and video just fine. Among other issues, is that the budget options are defaulting to HDMI out, and omitting Optical, Digital, and Analog out.
There were some early efforts by Sony and Dlink a few years ago. Both not only required a display, but were pretty terrible implementations overall. We recently tried one of the Dayton WBA 31s. For a mere $50, expectations were of course also modest. As you might imagine, analog audio out is not great. Below that of many phones we'd say. It does however had an optical output. A dealbreaker for most of our clients in terms of added complexity. If produced in sufficient number, there is no good reason such a unit with a decent DAC couldn't be built and sold for $200 or so. Or maybe someone is doing this, and it's just not well distributed?
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I sniffed around and found a used Bryston BDP pi for <$600. Manic Moose (MM) a bit spartan but it can also be a Roon Endpoint switching between MPD and Roon is a snap and the thing sounds really good (better than my Wyred 4 Sound moded Sonos). Gets regular updates from Bryston and has an dedicated active user community. Negative is MM only supports Tidal and Qobuz and yah need external DAC. |
I used a Logitech Touch for several years, upgrading the streaming capability, first with wired ethernet instead of wireless (would never go back) and next with Touch software mods making it - in theory - able to playback PCM 24 - 196. It was not able to stream DSD "native" (only, converted to PCM), and since this was important for me (with a lot of DSD vinyl rips on my hard disks), I decided to upgrade. I went for a one-box solution, the Teac NT-505. It is not exactly cheap, but it does the job, in my case. No problems connecting to the home network, playing DSD or other hi-res files from my hard disks, or streaming from Tidal. The sound quality is clearly a big step up from the Touch, and also, from my former solution, with the Touch as streamer, using the Tascam DA-3000 as DAC. It remains to be seen, how much the AK DAC chips in the Teac outperform the Burr-Brown in the Tascam, there is a bit of "polite" sound, but it is still playing in. Although this solution costs more, it takes all customers, so to speak, all file formats, and you dont need cables and better power cords for two or more boxes. I have no idea, what happens if Tidal shuts down, or Qobuz, or Spotify, or if MQA is still supported - from Teac, but for now, this solution works trouble-free and offers very good sound in our living room. It uses a combination of the Minimserver app (which is free, so far, on the web) on the server, and player control software on the remote (mobile phone, etc). I use the Lumin app, which is quite good, and adds to the convenience. |
@slackjef The Arylic is also a new one to us. It actually looks like an excellent candidate. Being able to use it as a dedicate preamp with two line inputs is a nice plus. You mentioned about being limited to CD quality, but the specs claim it supports 24/192. Perhaps only to be transcoded to 16 bit? Even if this is so, it still looks like a strong contender, and the price is right. Will definitely give this one a try. Thanks! |
@pinwa While this looks like a good Bluetooth receiver, it's not the same as a dedicated streaming receiver. You can of course use it to playback a stream on your system, but a phone, computer, tablet, or other device is needed as a source. And while Bluetooth continues to improve, it is still a compromise over a directly connected Wifi/Ethernet receiver. And yes, while streaming receivers are often controlled by phones and tablets, the streaming takes place locally on the device. Many of the higher end streamers can be operation without a phone at all. |
I'm still not understanding the obsession with streamers...again, your basic laptop, ipad, android device, ipod....etc etc can all be used as a streaming device. You are not going to be using any of their internal dacs, but connecting them all to a high quality dac. So other than aesthetics, I still don't see any point in spending significant cash on a streamer. Again, I mostly play vinyl records for serious listening....streaming just occasionally for the fun of it and to search for new music...that's it. |
To get back to the original question, why are there not a plethora of cheap streaming devices such as the Google Chromecast, my first query would be why did Google stop supporting Chromecast? I Googled this recently—no pun intended—and didn’t find an answer. I wonder if most people just use a computer in place of a dedicated audio device? Everybody owns at least one, they can do everything that a streamer does, and most people aren’t audiophiles and find them sonically acceptable. Audiophiles that wish to have a higher quality product are generally willing to pay a premium for the privilege, and thus the sub $500 market would be stressed out. Another factor is that many lower end products, such as inexpensive AVRs, attempt to add streaming, Bluetooth, and whatever else is desired, sacrificing quality in the process but most people simply won’t care |
I think I must not understand what people mean by streamers since I would have thought a high quality bluetooth receiver like this one meets almost all of the needs for wirelessly transmitting music to a system: http://szaudiotech.com/product/blt-hd-bluetooth-adaptor/ The quality of the Bludento using the COAX output to a DAC is very high, I would say about 90-95% of what a USB connection gives you. And of course, subscribing to Roon and using a Raspberry Pi running Ropieee or one of the other OS's is a great way to feed music to a DAC. |
What part of "You get what you pay for" is beyond the OP's grasp? Cheap CD players are/were exactly that. With streamers the price goes up for "plug and play" because you are paying for someone to hold your hand. If you don't want to spend any time or effort spend lotso $$$$. And like it. Or speed up the process and market a package for us. The Xiaomi Mi box does Roon nicely for ~$70. Too bad you need a screen too. And to spend a lot more than that every year for gapless playback. |
I'm really not into the whole streamer/DAC concept per se. What I fear most is not that DAC's will improve (they won't) but that streaming services come and go and the need to keep up with them. It's more of a software and interface thing than hardware. For this reason I went with Roon as my streaming ecosystem, and like you mentioned, I'm runmning a Pi/Ubuntu streamer talking USB to my DAC, but I could also get a Mytek Manhattan II with a network card. No built in streaming, but Roon aware. |
I have the Arylic S50 Pro. it is 200.00 from Amazon. It is ok as long as all you are doing is streaming. In their own materials they state that they are focused on the streaming and the support of digital files is secondary. As to streaming I have clung onto AmazonHD which is a very good product and there is a discount as i am already an amazon prime customer. For AmazonHD, there are some features that you can't use while streaming (adding music to your library or playlists for example). I think I want a 200 product to work like a 1,000 or more product. Another thing that annoys me is that the best it will ever play is cd quality regardless of the source. |
@austinstereo-- As for the Allo, and the Pi, and any other DIY stuff, they are great options for hobbyists. And the results are beyond what you’d expect for the money. In this case, we’re looking for ready to run. Many of our customers just want a simple solution.Oh, I missed that you are a dealer. The Allo can be bought pre-assembled and is pretty easy to set up and use, yet still, it doesn’t have the polish of more commercial products. I’m going to look at the Songbird myself. People ask me for recommendations, and like you, I’d like to have something inexpensive, reasonable quality, and not tweaky. |
I'm thinking that software development, API's, etc play into the price of streamers. Common phone apps, small and relatively simple, are downloaded to millions of phones and through advertising, generate money to cover development costs. When a company builds a streamer, hoping to sell 10,000 or 50,000 with no advertising income, the more complex development costs are spread over fewer devices. The streamer must be compatible with lots of providers and different protocols. Plus, they often have to create an iOS and Android app to accompany the streamer. The node 2i can stream directly or in some cases, through the mobile app. It supports Spotify connect, roon, bluetooth, Google cast, etc. All that interoperability costs money to create and often involves paying a fee to those services or protocols. The Node 2i does all that very well. When you pay less for a streamer, you may lose quality, interoperability, a user friendly interface, or all of the above. When shopping for a lower price streamer, do a lot of research, read reviews, etc... make sure it does what you need it to do, and has a UI (user interface) that doesn't drive you crazy. Yes, I have a Node 2i and like it a lot. I'm using it with an external DAC (not high end at all) and it sounds slightly better than it's internal DAC did. The internal DAC wasn't bad at all...but would be out of place on many of the higher end systems owned by subscribers to this forum. The only thing missing, in my opinion is a BlueSound receiver that could be plugged into aux inputs on systems in other rooms for nice, whole house sound. The BlueSound Pulse speakers have streamers built in, can serve as endpoints for well synchronized sound originating from the Node 2i and they aren't bad as wireless, remote speakers go...but the don't come close to most, spare stereo systems most of us have. I bought one Pulse, the big one. Its wasn't cheap and the sound was a little disappointing...so it remains in the kitchen, where nothing resembling critical listening will occur. |
Bluesound Node2i is a little north of $500. Not cheap. But not expensive. Remarkable sound for price. It is source for my system, which terminates in Vandersteen Quatro Wood CTs. Happy with sound so far. Have yet to hear it bettered in shootout at dealer against DACs costing 2-4K. Part of that may be that in configuration that I use it signal is handled by Parasound JC2 before being passed onto to amp. I can hear effects of different power cords, Ethernet cables, and speaker cable elevators. So not deaf. |
I’ve got a cheap solution which sounds great. On my system it does. Android with UAPP(and Bit Perfect add-on for TIDAL MQA), OTG cable, Nobsound USB to SPDIF converter( USB To SPDIF Converter XMOS XU208 Coaxial Source Output, Digital 75 ohm Coax cable to my processor. I don’t care about TIDAL MQA but my discovery tonight is selecting Mono on my processor. Everything sounds so much better... Does a streamer with it’s FLAC ability sound better? Could be. But you asked for cheap and that’s my retort. |
I agree with @unsound that the Allo DigiOne with a Raspberry Pi (prebuilt if you want) is a great solution. I have one, and I’m not positive I could tell it from the more expensive streamers I’ve used (Auralic Aries G1, Bricasti M5) in a blind test. It’s this thing, for $215. I’d add an iFi iPower supply to it ($50). That and an SPDIF cable, and you’re done. They also sell a "Signature" version of you want more audiophile cred. |
The Chromecast audio was a great item. Quite a few of our customers use them. Many of which are delighted when the find out their vintage system can now stream audio. It is such a shame that Google pulled the plug on this. Amazon makes a similar device, and it's very good, but unless you are in the Amazon Music universe, it's useless. I've heard lots of good things about the Node 2i. And in the great scheme, $450 isn't enormous. I just think there needs to be something between the two. |
Jeff Dorgay over at Tone recently touted this puppy ... the Andover Audio Songbird Hi-Res Music Streamer which is a streamer with its own DAC which goes for $129. https://www.tonepublications.com/review/andover-audio-songbird-hi-res-music-streamer/ https://www.andoveraudio.com/products/songbird-hi-res-internet-audio-streaming-device |
I have the best, least expensive ($40) streaming gizmo, the Chromecast audio puck. It's plugged into my preamp/DAC with an optical Toslink cable. I stream Tidal straight from the phone using the app. Sadly, Google discontinued it and they are hard to find. You have to spend a LOT more for comparable quality. The next step up might the the Bluesound Node 2i. I'm getting ready to spend a lot more, probably a Wyred4Sound streamer or Innuos, which are both Roon Cores and endpoints. I hope the improvement in SQ will be substantial. |
